I have a player that has an Artificer, and he wants to use his lvl 11 ability to infuse an item with a stored spell (Enlarge/Reduce) that requires concentration. He then wants to have his Steel Defender companion hold the item and cast the spell based on the artificer using his bonus action to order the action. My thoughts for sake of argument are to let the steel defender hold the item and use an action outside the actions listed for the creature but I'm not sure how you would activate the item? (Doesn't it need to speak a command word?) I understand there are no V, S, M * components. Maybe the artificer designed it to be flicked a certain way to make it activate? So, let's say I allow the steel defender to use the item to cast the Enlarge spell that requires concentration. I go back to the real question. Can the Steel Defender concentrate? To me, a construct is made up a gears and a pinch of magic to make it all work. Also, I understand it only has a 4 intelligence. I lean towards not allowing this. I also read this under the golem monster section "A golem can’t think or act for itself. Though it understands its commands perfectly, it has no grasp of language beyond that understanding". I know that the Steel Defender isn't a golem but I think this still describes what a steel defender. I looked at all the creature constructs and none of them had or used a concentration spell or ability. I put this out there to hear what the community has to say about it. If you know of any official rules that would allow this, I would love to see it.
I can't see why not. It's not mindless. The Artificer needs to use an action to command the Steel Defender to activate the item. After that, as the spellcaster, the Steel Defender is responsible for concentration.
Edit: The Steel Defender is magical and doesn't have to be flavored as a mechanical construct if you don't want.
The iron golem and mastiff have a 3 intelligence and the steel defender(SD) has a 4. This is from the iron golem creature info: A golem can’t think or act for itself. I personally see the SD as a combination of an iron golem and mastiff (or whatever creature it’s trying to resemble). Think about that for a minute. Do you think a dog could concentrate on a complex spell to keep it going? I’m the DM, so I know I can let this happen if I want but I’m looking for known references that the steel defender can actually think for itself and concentrate. I’m trying to picture my dog pushing the button to cast spell and concentrating to keep spell going. I’m actually good with SD using item to cast spell if it didn’t require concentration.
Worth mentioning is that concentrating on a spell is so complex and difficult a magic user can only concentrate on one spell at a time.
Chaser, considered to be the smartest border collie on record, had a huge vocabulary, over 1000 nouns. She was able to identify and fetch items from photos and understood that they could come in different sized but were essentially the same. There are more and more dogs learning to talk to their owners using buttons on a phrase board. Bunny, a Sheepadoodle, can communicate using relatively complex sentences of three and four words. If you watch the YouTube videos of her “talking” to her owners, she has quite the personality and perhaps even a sense of humour.
Now my border collie is not as smart or well trained as Chaser or Bunny but she can definitely focus on a task for a minute—perform certain tricks, wait for a treat, wait at the door for a walk, that sort of thing. She has expectations based on not only the time of day—meals, walks etc—but also the day of the week; she knows when it’s Saturday and expects the guys come to play D&D. She’s got a fairly extensive vocabulary of her own. She’s fairly clever while not even particularly remarkable among the smarter breeds. Dogs can be pretty smart. Think of all the tasks they can be trained for depending on the breed. It depends if you imagine a steel defender is more like a poodle or a French Bulldog hahahaha
All the dog stuff aside, if you allow a steel defender to use an SSI to cast a spell at all, I’d say they could concentrate on it as well. Is it RAW that they can use an SSI? Not sure I’d allow it if it’s not explicitly stated they can.
I classify the SD as a creature/monster and according to the monster manual a creature can use the actions allowed to players as well as the ones listed on their stats. Granted that action has to be ordered by the artificers bonus action. Like mentioned before, a dog can hold an object and push a button. So, I say I would allow them to use the SSI. Based on it being a construct, I just can’t believe it has the mind to concentrate on holding a spell.
This is from the artificer steel defender section: It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes on its turn is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action.
concentration is so complex a magic user can only do it on one spell at a time.
I classify the SD as a creature/monster and according to the monster manual a creature can use the actions allowed to players as well as the ones listed on their stats. Granted that action has to be ordered by the artificers bonus action. Like mentioned before, a dog can hold an object and push a button. So, I say I would allow them to use the SSI. Based on it being a construct, I just can’t believe it has the mind to concentrate on holding a spell.
This is from the artificer steel defender section: It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes on its turn is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action.
concentration is so complex a magic user can only do it on one spell at a time.
Concentration is not an action. There are no ability requirements to concentrate. There is no restriction on a Steel Defender concentrating on a spell that it casts.
All the dog stuff aside, if you allow a steel defender to use an SSI to cast a spell at all, I’d say they could concentrate on it as well. Is it RAW that they can use an SSI? Not sure I’d allow it if it’s not explicitly stated they can.
A scroll has a restriction on who can activate it, a Spell Storing Item does not. Any creature can use a spell storing item.
I have a player that has an Artificer, and he wants to use his lvl 11 ability to infuse an item with a stored spell (Enlarge/Reduce) that requires concentration. He then wants to have his Steel Defender companion hold the item and cast the spell based on the artificer using his bonus action to order the action. My thoughts for sake of argument are to let the steel defender hold the item and use an action outside the actions listed for the creature but I'm not sure how you would activate the item? (Doesn't it need to speak a command word?) I understand there are no V, S, M * components. Maybe the artificer designed it to be flicked a certain way to make it activate? So, let's say I allow the steel defender to use the item to cast the Enlarge spell that requires concentration. I go back to the real question. Can the Steel Defender concentrate? To me, a construct is made up a gears and a pinch of magic to make it all work. Also, I understand it only has a 4 intelligence. I lean towards not allowing this. I also read this under the golem monster section "A golem can’t think or act for itself. Though it understands its commands perfectly, it has no grasp of language beyond that understanding". I know that the Steel Defender isn't a golem but I think this still describes what a steel defender. I looked at all the creature constructs and none of them had or used a concentration spell or ability. I put this out there to hear what the community has to say about it. If you know of any official rules that would allow this, I would love to see it.
Thanks for any feedback!
I can't see why not. It's not mindless. The Artificer needs to use an action to command the Steel Defender to activate the item. After that, as the spellcaster, the Steel Defender is responsible for concentration.
Edit: The Steel Defender is magical and doesn't have to be flavored as a mechanical construct if you don't want.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
The iron golem and mastiff have a 3 intelligence and the steel defender(SD) has a 4. This is from the iron golem creature info: A golem can’t think or act for itself. I personally see the SD as a combination of an iron golem and mastiff (or whatever creature it’s trying to resemble). Think about that for a minute. Do you think a dog could concentrate on a complex spell to keep it going? I’m the DM, so I know I can let this happen if I want but I’m looking for known references that the steel defender can actually think for itself and concentrate. I’m trying to picture my dog pushing the button to cast spell and concentrating to keep spell going. I’m actually good with SD using item to cast spell if it didn’t require concentration.
Worth mentioning is that concentrating on a spell is so complex and difficult a magic user can only concentrate on one spell at a time.
Chaser, considered to be the smartest border collie on record, had a huge vocabulary, over 1000 nouns. She was able to identify and fetch items from photos and understood that they could come in different sized but were essentially the same. There are more and more dogs learning to talk to their owners using buttons on a phrase board. Bunny, a Sheepadoodle, can communicate using relatively complex sentences of three and four words. If you watch the YouTube videos of her “talking” to her owners, she has quite the personality and perhaps even a sense of humour.
Now my border collie is not as smart or well trained as Chaser or Bunny but she can definitely focus on a task for a minute—perform certain tricks, wait for a treat, wait at the door for a walk, that sort of thing. She has expectations based on not only the time of day—meals, walks etc—but also the day of the week; she knows when it’s Saturday and expects the guys come to play D&D. She’s got a fairly extensive vocabulary of her own. She’s fairly clever while not even particularly remarkable among the smarter breeds. Dogs can be pretty smart. Think of all the tasks they can be trained for depending on the breed. It depends if you imagine a steel defender is more like a poodle or a French Bulldog hahahaha
All the dog stuff aside, if you allow a steel defender to use an SSI to cast a spell at all, I’d say they could concentrate on it as well. Is it RAW that they can use an SSI? Not sure I’d allow it if it’s not explicitly stated they can.
I classify the SD as a creature/monster and according to the monster manual a creature can use the actions allowed to players as well as the ones listed on their stats. Granted that action has to be ordered by the artificers bonus action. Like mentioned before, a dog can hold an object and push a button. So, I say I would allow them to use the SSI. Based on it being a construct, I just can’t believe it has the mind to concentrate on holding a spell.
This is from the artificer steel defender section: It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes on its turn is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action.
concentration is so complex a magic user can only do it on one spell at a time.
Concentration is not an action. There are no ability requirements to concentrate. There is no restriction on a Steel Defender concentrating on a spell that it casts.
A scroll has a restriction on who can activate it, a Spell Storing Item does not. Any creature can use a spell storing item.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I routinely see undisputed claims that a Steel Defender can use a spell storing item and that its concentration can be used for casting that spell.
RAW, any creature can use a spell storing item.
RAW, the Steel Defender is a medium construct, and RAW, a construct is a type of creature.