I've got a question I couldn't find an answer to and was hoping some kind person might offer their advice!!! I've never played a barbarian (although I'm also not the most experienced player out there). I love them thematically and have some fun ideas but... the one thing I'm struggling with is their utility. I play a lot of lower level (levels 3-5) one-shots so having a one-trick pony can suck if the opportunity to use that trick doesn't come up. I generally see barbarians and fighters hanging back, like the driver in a golf bag, until a fight starts. Moreover, I really enjoy the non-combat elements of the game so don't like to play the brooding silent edge-lord archetype.
Do you have any suggestions on how to make a barbarian a more rounded character? Not necessarily just build-wise... I'm looking for some ideas about how you've seen a barbarian contribute meaningfully to a party when there wasn't something that needed killing.
One easy way is through background. Choose one that gives you some out of combat skills. Like choose urchin and you can be pretty stealthy and pick locks. Or just generally decide what kinds of out of combat stuff you want to do, and pick a background that gives you proficiency in them.
Thank you so much! That's a great idea! And putting a few more points in DEX opens up a few more skills too. I wish that using strength for intimidation when flexing was RAW.
You can also choose a race that contributes useful skills or features. My personal favourite, using Tasha's optional Origins Customization, if Half Elf. You can put your +2 and 2 +1s where ever you want, and you get two additional skill proficiencies of your choice that can be used to round out a character however you might like.
Thank you so much! That's a great idea! And putting a few more points in DEX opens up a few more skills too. I wish that using strength for intimidation when flexing was RAW.
It is RAW! PHB page 175 has a brief section titled "Variant: Skills with Different Abilities." In this section we find the sentence "Similarly, when your half-orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma."
This is a rule I utilize a lot as a DM and try my best to argue for whenever I'm a player. If you have a DM that's against it, even after you site the section I mentioned above, I'd have a serious conversation with them outside of game time to try to figure out why. D&D is supposed to be about coming up with creative solutions and having fun.
Also yeah, stealthy lockpicking Barbarians are great.
Brilliant! I had no idea!!!! That entirely makes sense! I'm glad there are general rules like that in D&D... but I have soooo much to learn! Thank you again, it's really appreciated!
Yeah, D&D 5e is pretty good at letting players do what they want. Your proficiency bonus is usually the bulk of what you get to add to a d20 roll. Having a good ability modifier helps, but it isn't required.
Also if you really want to do something that your character is just terrible at you can find a team mate to work with and use the Help action to give them advantage in the check. This way you can contribute even if you aren't the one making the check.
The help action is good! It's cool that there are ways coordinate actions within a party. There's something particularly rewarding being the wingman who gets an assist helping the party's rogue score a crit and they roll that mitt full of dice eh? A party I was in we put a player in a bag of holding and the fighter tossed it through a window lol! I had a boss who was in on a police tactical team and did something similar in real life... although there was not bag of holding and going through real plate glass hurts lol! Thank you again!
There are a few things to keep in mind when it comes to out of combat utility:
The dice gods are malicious. Unless you're looking at a higher level campaign with a high ability modifier and expertise (double proficiency) in a skill then chances are the d20 roll is still the most part in determining whether you succeed or fail. It doesn't matter if you build a character with +8 on History if you roll a 1 and someone with -1 rolls a 20. This can be endlessly frustrating if you build a character who's supposed to be knowledgeable yet some urchin who spent their first 20 years in a sewer knows more than you do about Netherese gardening techniques, but then part of the fun of a dice game is that success or failure can come from unexpected places. My experience has regularly been that the higher your bonus, the worse you will roll, so don't fixate on what bonuses you don't have. 😉
Your DM does not need to ask you for a skill check; if you want a character to have specialist knowledge appropriate to their background and backstory then discuss it with your DM, as if it ever becomes relevant you should be able to just say "my character studied X, what do they know?" to bypass checks or fish for advantage. An erudite Barbarian may not be a common theme, but there is no reason a character needs to have been a Barbarian their whole life; maybe they started out as a scholar but after some tragedy became a rage-fuelled murder machine?
More generally you can get out of non-combat what you put into it; just because you don't have proficiency in persuasion doesn't mean you can't make a convincing argument that stands a chance of succeeding, and if you do it in a way that's true to the character your DM should be awarding inspiration (which you can then use to help with checks), or just granting advantage or other bonuses in the first place.
If you take Intimidation then keep in mind that Charisma isn't the only ability score you can use for the roll; for martial characters who typically won't have spare points to put into Charisma, I regularly argue for Strength (Intimidation) on the basis of physical size or threat, i.e- they're not using words to convince someone, they're cracking knuckles, hefting a greataxe or pointedly crushing skull-sized objects with their face.
Also, just try to solve problems using Strength! If you want to haggle but don't have Charisma, try arm-wrestling for it, or offering some service in exchange like fetching a bunch of goods they need, that kind of thing.
Lastly, low or relatively low Intelligence or Wisdom doesn't mean your character has to be stupid or foolish. For example, one of my martial characters is a Minotaur Fighter/Barbarian with only Intelligence 10 and no INT based skills, but then she grew up in a nomadic tribe and ran away, later to be taken in by a member of the tinker's guild in a particular town. So while she has formal training in engineering (so my DM won't ask for checks or will give advantage for anything relevant to that), her general knowledge about peoples, customs, history, religions etc. is horrendous. In combat she's a rage monster, but out of it it she tries which I think is the important part; she can offer suggestions, she can help, and since I keep notes she can learn. When it comes to puzzles for example she may not have the best scores for rolling checks, but she can remember things and put forward ideas, even if she may not be the one to enact them. She is also often the character that ends up being the impulsive one; in a recent session we were confronted by a lake we knew we had to go into, and had a bottle that granted waterbreathing, so while everyone else was going in circles on various plans she just took a gulp of air from it and waded in to force them to commit, so there are a bunch of ways to participate without being reliant on checks.
Sorry for the text wall, but hopefully some of that is useful!
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This can be endlessly frustrating if you build a character who's supposed to be knowledgeable yet some urchin who spent their first 20 years in a sewer knows more than you do about Netherese gardening techniques...
Those are all excellent points Haravikk! I feel much less like being dead weight! Thank you so much.
I recommend a race with extra skills, use of class features from Tasha's, and multi-classing.
In my group's next campaign I'm playing a Reborn Zealot/Mercy Monk with the Haunted One background, and he's gonna have lots of skills. The Reborn race gets two racial skills, so he starts out with proficiency in six skills. (Two racial, two class, two background.) The Primal Knowledge feature from Tasha's gets him 2 more skills. (1 at Barbarian 3rd, and 1 at Barbarian 10th.) And Mercy Monk gets him 2 more (Insight and Medicine) plus the herbalism kit. He's also gonna speak four languages.
Very cool Jak! I will have to check that out. Treantmonk's Temple just posted a video on YouTube with some tantalizing details from the Monsters of the Multiverse. Looks like Wizards is making some changes to open races up too that could help. That Mercy Monk build sounds really fun! Thank you!
I think I can share an example of how I built my Barbarian character in my current campaign, which made him quite useful in a lot of ways.
For one, I played as a Tortle, which includes a few different skill proficiencies, which I used to gain Proficiency with Perception, and with Tortle providing a boost to WIS even though I didn't have particularly high Perception I was still good at looking out for challenges and kept the party safe in dangerous situations. Then I took the Outlander Background, which gives proficiency with Athletics and Survival... Survival is one of those skills that a lot of DMs interpret different ways, but you can usually use it to track enemies, find safe places to set up camp, or any number of other things. The background also has one of the more mechanically useful features, which allows you to basically instantly provide food for your party in the wild as long as you're in an environment where food is available. My DM also let me swap the Instrument Proficiency with a tool Proficiency... I went with Woodworker's Tools, because I could use it to do things like craft arrows or javelins, plus it gives me tools I could utilize to repair a cart or lash together a simple raft to cross a river. Finally, since so many of my proficiencies were covered by race/background, I could take Intimidation and Nature from the Barbarian Class... that basically meant that I had every Proficiency offered by the Barbarian Class, except for Animal Handling (I just kind of played the character as not particularly liking animals).
So that was just one example of how I built a character that, while he is definitely keyed into battle and is more useful in battle than out, he's still a major part of the party dynamic and regularly takes the lead in a variety of situations. High Perception pairs well with a Barbarian because, under most conditions, you're going to want to be at the front of the line while entering dangerous situations, and having high perception gives you defenses against being caught by surprise, or increases your odds of spotting traps. Between Nature and Survival any time we're out in the woods I'm the person to talk to about looking for things to either seek or to know whether or not something is dangerous.
One thing I can recommend more universally is to try and look for ways to utilize your skill proficiencies. If you're trying to look for footprints the DM might ask you to make an Investigation check... given that, ask (politely) if you can use Survival instead. Don't get upset if your DM says no, but if you feel like a different skill that you're actually proficient in will help you deal with a situation, don't be afraid to ask for a different check.
I like to develop a background story. Sometimes it's cool to go against the stereotypes of one's class and/or race.
I create a narrative about his upbringing and what hobbies they like. Hobbies are fun things he does during the downtimes. Utilizing his crafts comes in handy too. Maybe center non-combat around foraging for ingredients to make beer or great wood for whittling trinkets.
There's lots of ways to add flavor, but it requires a bit of the roleplay.
Tasha's sought to address this for Barbarians somewhat, giving them an additional skill proficiency at 3rd level and another at 10th (for those that get that far). That puts them on the higher end of classes as far as number of skill proficiencies go, though some of them may be less common than others.
I played a barbarian in a combat-lite adventure a couple years back that centered on a "battle of the bands"-style competition. I contributed to the show by performing feats of strength and athleticism. Constitution could be used in performing David Blaine-style feats as well. Out-of-combat barbarian usefulness will often depend on finding ways to make your physical skills and abilities relevant to a challenge - breaking a chair to intimidate, challenging people to physical competitions, charging through a locked door, etc. -- however, barbarians may also call upon their "tribal knowledges" on occasion to contribute to mental challenges.
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Hullo D&D Beyond Forum!
I've got a question I couldn't find an answer to and was hoping some kind person might offer their advice!!! I've never played a barbarian (although I'm also not the most experienced player out there). I love them thematically and have some fun ideas but... the one thing I'm struggling with is their utility. I play a lot of lower level (levels 3-5) one-shots so having a one-trick pony can suck if the opportunity to use that trick doesn't come up. I generally see barbarians and fighters hanging back, like the driver in a golf bag, until a fight starts. Moreover, I really enjoy the non-combat elements of the game so don't like to play the brooding silent edge-lord archetype.
Do you have any suggestions on how to make a barbarian a more rounded character? Not necessarily just build-wise... I'm looking for some ideas about how you've seen a barbarian contribute meaningfully to a party when there wasn't something that needed killing.
Any help would be very welcome!!!!
One easy way is through background. Choose one that gives you some out of combat skills. Like choose urchin and you can be pretty stealthy and pick locks. Or just generally decide what kinds of out of combat stuff you want to do, and pick a background that gives you proficiency in them.
Thank you so much! That's a great idea! And putting a few more points in DEX opens up a few more skills too. I wish that using strength for intimidation when flexing was RAW.
You can also choose a race that contributes useful skills or features. My personal favourite, using Tasha's optional Origins Customization, if Half Elf. You can put your +2 and 2 +1s where ever you want, and you get two additional skill proficiencies of your choice that can be used to round out a character however you might like.
It is RAW! PHB page 175 has a brief section titled "Variant: Skills with Different Abilities." In this section we find the sentence "Similarly, when your half-orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma."
This is a rule I utilize a lot as a DM and try my best to argue for whenever I'm a player. If you have a DM that's against it, even after you site the section I mentioned above, I'd have a serious conversation with them outside of game time to try to figure out why. D&D is supposed to be about coming up with creative solutions and having fun.
Also yeah, stealthy lockpicking Barbarians are great.
Brilliant! I had no idea!!!! That entirely makes sense! I'm glad there are general rules like that in D&D... but I have soooo much to learn! Thank you again, it's really appreciated!
That's a great idea! Thank you!
Yeah, D&D 5e is pretty good at letting players do what they want. Your proficiency bonus is usually the bulk of what you get to add to a d20 roll. Having a good ability modifier helps, but it isn't required.
Also if you really want to do something that your character is just terrible at you can find a team mate to work with and use the Help action to give them advantage in the check. This way you can contribute even if you aren't the one making the check.
The help action is good! It's cool that there are ways coordinate actions within a party. There's something particularly rewarding being the wingman who gets an assist helping the party's rogue score a crit and they roll that mitt full of dice eh? A party I was in we put a player in a bag of holding and the fighter tossed it through a window lol! I had a boss who was in on a police tactical team and did something similar in real life... although there was not bag of holding and going through real plate glass hurts lol! Thank you again!
There are a few things to keep in mind when it comes to out of combat utility:
More generally you can get out of non-combat what you put into it; just because you don't have proficiency in persuasion doesn't mean you can't make a convincing argument that stands a chance of succeeding, and if you do it in a way that's true to the character your DM should be awarding inspiration (which you can then use to help with checks), or just granting advantage or other bonuses in the first place.
If you take Intimidation then keep in mind that Charisma isn't the only ability score you can use for the roll; for martial characters who typically won't have spare points to put into Charisma, I regularly argue for Strength (Intimidation) on the basis of physical size or threat, i.e- they're not using words to convince someone, they're cracking knuckles, hefting a greataxe or pointedly crushing skull-sized objects with their face.
Also, just try to solve problems using Strength! If you want to haggle but don't have Charisma, try arm-wrestling for it, or offering some service in exchange like fetching a bunch of goods they need, that kind of thing.
Lastly, low or relatively low Intelligence or Wisdom doesn't mean your character has to be stupid or foolish. For example, one of my martial characters is a Minotaur Fighter/Barbarian with only Intelligence 10 and no INT based skills, but then she grew up in a nomadic tribe and ran away, later to be taken in by a member of the tinker's guild in a particular town. So while she has formal training in engineering (so my DM won't ask for checks or will give advantage for anything relevant to that), her general knowledge about peoples, customs, history, religions etc. is horrendous. In combat she's a rage monster, but out of it it she tries which I think is the important part; she can offer suggestions, she can help, and since I keep notes she can learn. When it comes to puzzles for example she may not have the best scores for rolling checks, but she can remember things and put forward ideas, even if she may not be the one to enact them. She is also often the character that ends up being the impulsive one; in a recent session we were confronted by a lake we knew we had to go into, and had a bottle that granted waterbreathing, so while everyone else was going in circles on various plans she just took a gulp of air from it and waded in to force them to commit, so there are a bunch of ways to participate without being reliant on checks.
Sorry for the text wall, but hopefully some of that is useful!
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Those are all excellent points Haravikk! I feel much less like being dead weight! Thank you so much.
I recommend a race with extra skills, use of class features from Tasha's, and multi-classing.
In my group's next campaign I'm playing a Reborn Zealot/Mercy Monk with the Haunted One background, and he's gonna have lots of skills. The Reborn race gets two racial skills, so he starts out with proficiency in six skills. (Two racial, two class, two background.) The Primal Knowledge feature from Tasha's gets him 2 more skills. (1 at Barbarian 3rd, and 1 at Barbarian 10th.) And Mercy Monk gets him 2 more (Insight and Medicine) plus the herbalism kit. He's also gonna speak four languages.
The healing abilities are also kinda useful.
Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
Very cool Jak! I will have to check that out. Treantmonk's Temple just posted a video on YouTube with some tantalizing details from the Monsters of the Multiverse. Looks like Wizards is making some changes to open races up too that could help. That Mercy Monk build sounds really fun! Thank you!
I think I can share an example of how I built my Barbarian character in my current campaign, which made him quite useful in a lot of ways.
For one, I played as a Tortle, which includes a few different skill proficiencies, which I used to gain Proficiency with Perception, and with Tortle providing a boost to WIS even though I didn't have particularly high Perception I was still good at looking out for challenges and kept the party safe in dangerous situations. Then I took the Outlander Background, which gives proficiency with Athletics and Survival... Survival is one of those skills that a lot of DMs interpret different ways, but you can usually use it to track enemies, find safe places to set up camp, or any number of other things. The background also has one of the more mechanically useful features, which allows you to basically instantly provide food for your party in the wild as long as you're in an environment where food is available. My DM also let me swap the Instrument Proficiency with a tool Proficiency... I went with Woodworker's Tools, because I could use it to do things like craft arrows or javelins, plus it gives me tools I could utilize to repair a cart or lash together a simple raft to cross a river. Finally, since so many of my proficiencies were covered by race/background, I could take Intimidation and Nature from the Barbarian Class... that basically meant that I had every Proficiency offered by the Barbarian Class, except for Animal Handling (I just kind of played the character as not particularly liking animals).
So that was just one example of how I built a character that, while he is definitely keyed into battle and is more useful in battle than out, he's still a major part of the party dynamic and regularly takes the lead in a variety of situations. High Perception pairs well with a Barbarian because, under most conditions, you're going to want to be at the front of the line while entering dangerous situations, and having high perception gives you defenses against being caught by surprise, or increases your odds of spotting traps. Between Nature and Survival any time we're out in the woods I'm the person to talk to about looking for things to either seek or to know whether or not something is dangerous.
One thing I can recommend more universally is to try and look for ways to utilize your skill proficiencies. If you're trying to look for footprints the DM might ask you to make an Investigation check... given that, ask (politely) if you can use Survival instead. Don't get upset if your DM says no, but if you feel like a different skill that you're actually proficient in will help you deal with a situation, don't be afraid to ask for a different check.
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Solid points TransmorpherDDS! Thank you so much!
I like to develop a background story. Sometimes it's cool to go against the stereotypes of one's class and/or race.
I create a narrative about his upbringing and what hobbies they like. Hobbies are fun things he does during the downtimes.
Utilizing his crafts comes in handy too. Maybe center non-combat around foraging for ingredients to make beer or great wood for whittling trinkets.
There's lots of ways to add flavor, but it requires a bit of the roleplay.
Tasha's sought to address this for Barbarians somewhat, giving them an additional skill proficiency at 3rd level and another at 10th (for those that get that far). That puts them on the higher end of classes as far as number of skill proficiencies go, though some of them may be less common than others.
I played a barbarian in a combat-lite adventure a couple years back that centered on a "battle of the bands"-style competition. I contributed to the show by performing feats of strength and athleticism. Constitution could be used in performing David Blaine-style feats as well. Out-of-combat barbarian usefulness will often depend on finding ways to make your physical skills and abilities relevant to a challenge - breaking a chair to intimidate, challenging people to physical competitions, charging through a locked door, etc. -- however, barbarians may also call upon their "tribal knowledges" on occasion to contribute to mental challenges.