I think we are loosing track. The full class with features and mechanics and flavor is what i find issue with. The crafting and its systems is a core 5e issue not unique to the Artificer, it probably does it better than most but not that much better cause its bad in and of itself.
While holding this key and pushing it against a lock, a creature can instantly unlock this lock, with the exception of a lock requiring a puzzle to solve (such as pressing in the correct numbers or solving a riddle), or a magic lock (such as a lock created through the spell arcane lock). This key may be used 3 times, before losing all magic until the artificer that infused it has taken a long rest. As a bonus action, if a creature holding this key desires, they can turn it invisible, and hide it on their person, where it is undetectable except by divination magic. While invisible, this key is unable to unlock locks, and must be turned visible again through a bonus action to be used.
Improvements: At 8th level, this key can be used to cast either disguise self or greater invisibility on whoever is holding it without expending a spell slot, provided this creature has an INT score of 10 or higher. This key may only do this once, and regains this ability when the artificer who infused it has taken a long rest.
As a bonus action, a creature attuned to this ring can gain the benefits of the Enlarge feature of the spell Enlarge/Reduce. This feature may only be used once, and is regained on a long rest.
I think we are loosing track. The full class with features and mechanics and flavor is what i find issue with. The crafting and its systems is a core 5e issue not unique to the Artificer, it probably does it better than most but not that much better cause its bad in and of itself.
Since I'm interested in what you have to say, do you have any ideas on how the class as it is could be improved? Not that anything we say matters since the class is a month away from release.
Lmao u right. Should’ve posted this a while ago.
Honestly i dont know what to do to make the class better from where it is right now. For sure a larger option of better infusions and maybe even infusions unique to each subclass. I also am still a firm believer that Magical Crafting becomes a cantrip and you instead choose your subclass at first level.
Maybe some interesting class feature that improves crafting, or the way you learn spells between levels 5 and 18 when you don't get a whole lot of useful features. Besides subclass features which for the most part past the ones you get at 3rd level are pretty boring which is sad. Almost all other subclasses for the other classes i look forward to the features gained at later levels but with these its indifference and to an extent disappointment.
Not to mention functionality in the reflavoring of spells and abilities would really be fantastic.
I had an entire remake i made of the 2016 version the my groups were using for a while and continued using cause we were pretty disappointed by the new version.
As a bonus action, a creature attuned to this ring can gain the benefits of the Enlarge feature of the spell Enlarge/Reduce. This feature may only be used once, and is regained on a long rest.
Actually a large point to how the infusions function is that none of them require attunment which is why there is such a limit to how many you can have at a given time. That is the one truly genius thing they did with it.
Multiple infusions require attunement. Boots of the winding path, enhanced wand, radiant weapon, repeating shot, many on the list of replicate magic items, repulsion shield, and resistance armor all require attunement. The nice thing about them is that you can have yourself or another creature instantly attune to them after you create them.
Multiple infusions require attunement. Boots of the winding path, enhanced wand, radiant weapon, repeating shot, many on the list of replicate magic items, repulsion shield, and resistance armor all require attunement. The nice thing about them is that you can have yourself or another creature instantly attune to them after you create them.
Lmao. My brain completely passed over the parentheses at the top of each where it says they require attunment. I cant believe ive been doing that
Well I retract my statement about it being genius and now think its stupid cause most infusions that the Artificer creates are not really better than magical items from any source book, aside from Replicate Magic Item obviously
Multiple infusions require attunement. Boots of the winding path, enhanced wand, radiant weapon, repeating shot, many on the list of replicate magic items, repulsion shield, and resistance armor all require attunement. The nice thing about them is that you can have yourself or another creature instantly attune to them after you create them.
This also helps with the Level 20 capstone ability, but I wish the attunement limit increase was something that happened incrementally at multiple levels so you could benefit from it earlier instead of a sudden jump to six at 20th level, which most Artificers will never see.
Thats exactly how it used to be. It was 4 at level 5. 5 at level 15 and Then 6 at level 20
Level 1, the number of items you may attune to is equal to your INT modifier, minimum of 3. Then at level 20 it increases to 6, and you get the saving throw thing. The only classes that would get use out of this by multiclassing are Arcane trickster, Eldritch knight, and Wizard. It also wouldn't kick in right away, unless you do point buy, roll, or are a gnome and put INT as your 15 (i am probably forgetting about something but oh well)
So I am creating this thread to air the grievances I have with the current UA Artificer class, in an attempt to see if i am alone here in my dislike for it in its current state
((Trimmed for space))
Since the quote system in DDB's forum is a trash fire, I'm just going to try and address these point by point as we go. Apologies for the sloppy formatting.
"Level 1 Proficiencies" I could wish for a third skill proficiency myself, as it seems to fit with the general archetype of the character, but "tool proficiencies are utterly pants-on-head useless" is an opinion I will fight every time I see it. If one can't figure out how to apply having tools to a problem, one hasn't grown up around enough DIY guys. And they get thieves' tools because the differences between thieves' tools and tinkerer's tools are academic at best. Both involve fine manipulation of small, delicate objects, and the one can often be substituted for the other - if a layperson could spot the difference at all.
That said, Con saves are great, yeah. So glad they didn't shoehorn Wis in here, too many characters out there already with two Mind saves and no Body saves.
"Level 1, Magical Tinkering" No, no, no, no, no, no, NO. There is already enormous pressure on the artificer's cantrip selections, given that Mending is essentially mandatory. An artificer with no other source of cantrips (from race, multiclass, etc) is basically forced to take Magic Initiate simply to have a worthwhile cantrip list. Again, if you can't figure out a myriad of cool ways Magical Tinkering is super useful, this is perhaps not the class for you. If it's going to be an "artificer-only cantrip", then it needs to be awarded outside of the spell selection, which means it's a class feature, which means it's already working as intended. Not every class feature needs to be a hard-hitting combat superfeat.
"Level 1, Spellcasting" You can't counterspell a healing potion, no. You can disrupt the magical manipulations of an artificer charging a temporary construction/tool that simulates the effects of a healing potion, however. The artificer's spellcasting is a hybrid of mechanical tinkering and arcane empowerment, using tools and prepared constructions to help shape and command the weave. If you don't care for that, dispense with the rule. Artificers can get a billion different spellcasting foci as it is, it's not hard to sidestep the tool requirement.
"Level 2, Infuse Item" More infusions would be great, yeah. As would the option to add our own homebrew infusions when this class goes live in DDB. Again, though - if you can't think of creative uses for a set of Many-Handed Pouches, maybe not the class for you. Boots of the Winding Path are trickier, but they have their uses for some artificers. Not one of my preferred infusions either, but then I tend to strongly favor the ones that don't require attunement so I have a hefty bevy of magical tools at my disposal.
"Level 3, Tool Expertise" Thank you. And here I thought I was the only person in the entire DDB userbase who thought that Tool Expertise was gobshyte amazing. The Skilled feat exists, folks - you should all like it more than you currently do.
"Level 3, Subclass" I can see the logic behind letting artificers choose at third, rather than first. Give them a couple of levels to feel out what they like if the player doesn't have a strong idea in mind. I would prefer more emphasis on the subclass abilities, but then I'd prefer that of every single class in 5e. The game is fun, but oh my GAWD they oversimplified character creation and advancement so much...
"Level 5, Arcane Armament" Justification is weird, the ability itself is quite useful. They're doing away with AA in the final version, which is a crying shame. I also thought it was wonky and bizarre when I first saw it, but I warmed up to it as I tinkered with my artificers. Having basic martial capability helped the artificer quite a bit, losing that capability sucks when the artificer doesn't have enough cantrip selections to use them for fighting. Also yes - any artificer that expends one of their cantrip selections on a combat spell is out of their gourd. Arcane Weapon now officially sucks with mono-attack artificers, though I suppose the weird melee artificers can Magic Initiate themselves some Green Flame/Booming Blade action if they want.
Speaking of Booming Blade...man, if only there was an item that let you run up to something, hit it in the face with your Thundering Boom Wrench, then teleport up to fifteen feet away to somewhere the critter would have to trigger Booming Blade's secondary damage to chase you down to...
"Level 10, Right Cantrip for the Job" Heh. At least you and I are in agreement that it's a really cool idea. Too many folks seem to consider it entirely useless, and never mind that the artificer cantrip list is packed with goodies it's almost impossible to get enough of. I could agree with moving it up earlier in the class progression.
"Level 18, Spell-Storing Item" Frankly, I don't care about this feature. People are up its butt because it was apparently an iconic thing the 3.5 artificer did, but the 3.5 artificer was apparently also completely pointless to actually have in your party; it was just some secondary demi-PC someone played to make items for the team in town, and occasionally hauled to the front of a dungeon to dispense 'free' spells with. Hell with that. Much prefer an active adventurer like this one. If people desperately want SSI to be the main thing behind the class, I suppose that's what homebrew subclasses are for.
"Level 20, Soul of Artifice" I want the 2017 version back, where you got extra attunement slots periodically as you leveled and this was a capstone that gave you Slot 6 (instead of Slots 4-6) and the huge bonus to saves. If any class deserves to have more attunement slots available to it outside of level Nobody-Ever-Sees-It, it's this one. Attunement infuriates me anyways, so blah.
"Alchemist Specialization" Tools of the Trade at least ensures you have your stuff. Yeah, a Bag of Holding becomes mandatory, but frankly I'd want one for an artificer anyways.
Why does everybody hate the homunculus so much? Seriously? it's a mechanical turbo-familiar that has moderately useful combat functions, a myriad of useful abilities outside of combat, and oodles of style. It pisses me off that the mechanical companions are Infusions in Rising, and stripped of anything approaching actual useful abilities. I liked Sprog the Mechanical Imprite, thank you very much >_>
The acid/poison specialization is annoying but never really affects the character anyways. Definitely the weakest of the class' abilities, though being able to double up on INT for Cure Wounds was pretty nice. Helped stretch those scant half-caster spell slots. I'm apparently also the only person in existence who thinks that easy, largely-costless access to Lesser Restoration is actually pretty cool.
Chemical Savant, more of the same. A free Greater Restoration once a day can be a literal lifesaver, and one you don't need to kill 100gp of your Resurrection Slush Fund for. Greater Restoration is the penicillin of D&D - it fixes everything. I'll take one free "Fix whatever's wrong no matter what it is" per day, yes please. Resistance to common Poison damage is great, Acid resistanceis a nice bonus (if a little weak for 14th level, admittedly), and immunity to the Poisoned condition also means immunity to increasingly common "while you are Poisoned this way..." carrier effects that are much more dire.
"Archivist" Interesting idea, poorly and confusingly executed. Frankly a little relieved it didn't make the cut. Not that the DDB Bad Homebrew community won't ensure there are seventy versions of it available within an hour of the base class going live. None of them actually functional or properly implemented.
"Artillerist" Anything we have to say about the current UA Artillerist is basically bunk, because they're redoing it around the 'Arcane Firearm'. Whatever that is. That said? The class we got should've been two classes - the turret monkey and the wandslinger. Trying to cram both into one subclass felt weird, off, and like neither the wands nor the (awful) turret got the attention they deserved. Wonky subclass people liked only because it came with more cantrips and with combat-y spells, and the D&D community in general has always over-emphasized combat utility.
"Battlesmith" Martial weapons are less important than they otherwise might be on a class with as much ability to jazz up simple weapons as this one, especially since artificers get all crossbows anyways. And guns, in any setting that uses them. INT for attacks is awesome and lets you actually get away with focusing on only moderate Dex, though part of me hopes that "Smart Weapon" becomes an infusion and allows any artificer to change a specific weapon to INT, the way Hexblades get to change something to CHA. Either way, the battlesmith's combat abilities are cool.
Heh. I get the distinct feeling you just hate critters altogether and don't want to deal with any kind of companion class. The Iron Defender has the same issues every other damn critter does with being too fragile to hold up to heavy combat, but otherwise the artificer companion rules are clean, elegant, and useful. The Beastmaster could only wish its critters are as easy to implement and work with as the Iron Defender and, to a lesser extent, the Homunculus.
As to whether the Battlesmith is a "support, frontliner, or summoner"? Yes. All of those. Artificers are specifically designed to be able to flex, mix roles, and do what they need to do on the battlefield. If you need your character to have one und precisely vun cleanly-defined role that you and only you fulfill in your party? Once again - consider changing classes.
...anyways. That's enough for now, I think. My eyes are starting to cross and my fingers are starting to cramp. Checking back later now byyeeeee....
Oh damn, that shit sucks. Maybe battle smith feature will be like arcane armament. God I hope they dont make it an infusion you are supposed to give to the barbarian to let them attack 3 times per turn or something, i want arcane weapon crossbow to be a build that actually works, and isnt just worse than using cantrips at higher levels, and forcing you to use an infusion on it to let you attack twice instead of letting you give it repeating shot would suck.
remember, arcane tinkering lasts permanently, letting you leave messages from incredible distances. And yeah, it isnt amazing, but it isnt terrible either. They should be standard magic items! But they arent, so they are an infusion instead. The homonculus i like IN CONCEPT a lot. I just dont like how it is a subclass feature and not an infusion. I get it, its a historical thing tied to alchemy, but if enhanced armor and weapon are infusions despite that being the battle mages thing, and enhanced wand is an infusion despite that being an artillerist thing, then homonculus should be an infusion, like a more powerful find familiar or something. I think the reason why i dislike the homonculus being a subclass feature is because it has nothing to do with potions, despite that being what alchemists are traditionally associated with. I get it is another aspect of alchemy, but it is not the one that everyone thinks of when they think of alchemy. And there is no other ability (besides tools of the trade ig) that speaks POTIONS, like the satchel did, and it makes me feel like we had the satchel taken from us for a glorified animal companion, when battle smith already has that and better.
You can, you just rp yourself as saying that. Artificer is either going to be the most streamlined class ever or the most convoluted class ever, and they went for the one that fit into the already streamlined 5e
So I am creating this thread to air the grievances I have with the current UA Artificer class, in an attempt to see if i am alone here in my dislike for it in its current state
((Trimmed for space))
Since the quote system in DDB's forum is a trash fire, I'm just going to try and address these point by point as we go. Apologies for the sloppy formatting.
"Level 1 Proficiencies" I could wish for a third skill proficiency myself, as it seems to fit with the general archetype of the character, but "tool proficiencies are utterly pants-on-head useless" is an opinion I will fight every time I see it. If one can't figure out how to apply having tools to a problem, one hasn't grown up around enough DIY guys. And they get thieves' tools because the differences between thieves' tools and tinkerer's tools are academic at best. Both involve fine manipulation of small, delicate objects, and the one can often be substituted for the other - if a layperson could spot the difference at all.
That said, Con saves are great, yeah. So glad they didn't shoehorn Wis in here, too many characters out there already with two Mind saves and no Body saves.
"Level 1, Magical Tinkering" No, no, no, no, no, no, NO. There is already enormous pressure on the artificer's cantrip selections, given that Mending is essentially mandatory. An artificer with no other source of cantrips (from race, multiclass, etc) is basically forced to take Magic Initiate simply to have a worthwhile cantrip list. Again, if you can't figure out a myriad of cool ways Magical Tinkering is super useful, this is perhaps not the class for you. If it's going to be an "artificer-only cantrip", then it needs to be awarded outside of the spell selection, which means it's a class feature, which means it's already working as intended. Not every class feature needs to be a hard-hitting combat superfeat.
"Level 1, Spellcasting" You can't counterspell a healing potion, no. You can disrupt the magical manipulations of an artificer charging a temporary construction/tool that simulates the effects of a healing potion, however. The artificer's spellcasting is a hybrid of mechanical tinkering and arcane empowerment, using tools and prepared constructions to help shape and command the weave. If you don't care for that, dispense with the rule. Artificers can get a billion different spellcasting foci as it is, it's not hard to sidestep the tool requirement.
"Level 2, Infuse Item" More infusions would be great, yeah. As would the option to add our own homebrew infusions when this class goes live in DDB. Again, though - if you can't think of creative uses for a set of Many-Handed Pouches, maybe not the class for you. Boots of the Winding Path are trickier, but they have their uses for some artificers. Not one of my preferred infusions either, but then I tend to strongly favor the ones that don't require attunement so I have a hefty bevy of magical tools at my disposal.
"Level 3, Tool Expertise" Thank you. And here I thought I was the only person in the entire DDB userbase who thought that Tool Expertise was gobshyte amazing. The Skilled feat exists, folks - you should all like it more than you currently do.
"Level 3, Subclass" I can see the logic behind letting artificers choose at third, rather than first. Give them a couple of levels to feel out what they like if the player doesn't have a strong idea in mind. I would prefer more emphasis on the subclass abilities, but then I'd prefer that of every single class in 5e. The game is fun, but oh my GAWD they oversimplified character creation and advancement so much...
(I see what you did here)
Okay so;
Magical Tinkering - I never said i wasn't useful or interesting, all i said is that its not More functional than Druidcraft, which is one of my favorite cantrips. Also maybe an infusion for Wand Prototype could help relieve the stress on the cantrip selection side cause its kind of awkward as a class feature but could help.
Infusions - Again, i never said that boots of the winding path or many handed pouch are bad items, i just feel like they are being tied to a class when they should be just standard magical items.
Spellcasting - the booming blade thing is smart especially at early levels, but i was only taking into consideration the class at its face value. No feats to pick up the slack. Slack that shouldn’t even exist in a class that is supposed to be as perpetually flexible as you say
Im sorry but there is nothing you will be able to say that will make me like the Homonculus. Its not that i hate “critters” as you say, i just feel like they could have been so much more interesting and customizable than they are.
Im not gonna respond to everything you said just some things, and i can definitely see what you mean in some regards but i just hope they at least fix some of the glaring issues with the class, meaning the ones two people who disagree on the class, can agree are bad or misplaced features
So I am creating this thread to air the grievances I have with the current UA Artificer class, in an attempt to see if i am alone here in my dislike for it in its current state
((Trimmed for space))
Since the quote system in DDB's forum is a trash fire, I'm just going to try and address these point by point as we go. Apologies for the sloppy formatting.
"Level 1 Proficiencies" I could wish for a third skill proficiency myself, as it seems to fit with the general archetype of the character, but "tool proficiencies are utterly pants-on-head useless" is an opinion I will fight every time I see it. If one can't figure out how to apply having tools to a problem, one hasn't grown up around enough DIY guys. And they get thieves' tools because the differences between thieves' tools and tinkerer's tools are academic at best. Both involve fine manipulation of small, delicate objects, and the one can often be substituted for the other - if a layperson could spot the difference at all.
That said, Con saves are great, yeah. So glad they didn't shoehorn Wis in here, too many characters out there already with two Mind saves and no Body saves.
"Level 1, Magical Tinkering" No, no, no, no, no, no, NO. There is already enormous pressure on the artificer's cantrip selections, given that Mending is essentially mandatory. An artificer with no other source of cantrips (from race, multiclass, etc) is basically forced to take Magic Initiate simply to have a worthwhile cantrip list. Again, if you can't figure out a myriad of cool ways Magical Tinkering is super useful, this is perhaps not the class for you. If it's going to be an "artificer-only cantrip", then it needs to be awarded outside of the spell selection, which means it's a class feature, which means it's already working as intended. Not every class feature needs to be a hard-hitting combat superfeat.
"Level 1, Spellcasting" You can't counterspell a healing potion, no. You can disrupt the magical manipulations of an artificer charging a temporary construction/tool that simulates the effects of a healing potion, however. The artificer's spellcasting is a hybrid of mechanical tinkering and arcane empowerment, using tools and prepared constructions to help shape and command the weave. If you don't care for that, dispense with the rule. Artificers can get a billion different spellcasting foci as it is, it's not hard to sidestep the tool requirement.
"Level 2, Infuse Item" More infusions would be great, yeah. As would the option to add our own homebrew infusions when this class goes live in DDB. Again, though - if you can't think of creative uses for a set of Many-Handed Pouches, maybe not the class for you. Boots of the Winding Path are trickier, but they have their uses for some artificers. Not one of my preferred infusions either, but then I tend to strongly favor the ones that don't require attunement so I have a hefty bevy of magical tools at my disposal.
"Level 3, Tool Expertise" Thank you. And here I thought I was the only person in the entire DDB userbase who thought that Tool Expertise was gobshyte amazing. The Skilled feat exists, folks - you should all like it more than you currently do.
"Level 3, Subclass" I can see the logic behind letting artificers choose at third, rather than first. Give them a couple of levels to feel out what they like if the player doesn't have a strong idea in mind. I would prefer more emphasis on the subclass abilities, but then I'd prefer that of every single class in 5e. The game is fun, but oh my GAWD they oversimplified character creation and advancement so much... (You Know It Already)
Okay so;
Magical Tinkering - I never said i wasn't useful or interesting, all i said is that its not More functional than Druidcraft, which is one of my favorite cantrips. Also maybe an infusion for Wand Prototype could help relieve the stress on the cantrip selection side cause its kind of awkward as a class feature but could help.
Infusions - Again, i never said that boots of the winding path or many handed pouch are bad items, i just feel like they are being tied to a class when they should be just standard magical items.
Spellcasting - the booming blade thing is smart especially at early levels, but i was only taking into consideration the class at its face value. No feats to pick up the slack. Slack that shouldn’t even exist in a class that is supposed to be as perpetually flexible as you say
Im sorry but there is nothing you will be able to say that will make me like the Homonculus. Its not that i hate “critters” as you say, i just feel like they could have been so much more interesting and customizable than they are.
Im not gonna respond to everything you said just some things, and i can definitely see what you mean in some regards but i just hope they at least fix some of the glaring issues with the class, meaning the ones two people who disagree on the class, can agree are bad or misplaced features
Also, as ive thought on it more, Magical Tinkering as a cantrip SHOULD be an awarded cantrip. And it should be given at the same time they give you mending for free cause it is pretty dumb how necessary that us for the “critters”, AND ALSO when they let you cast identify for free a number of times equal to your INT mod cause spending a spell slot, or even 10 min, for that as an Artificer is dumb
I think my biggest issue all in all is the idea that this class is supposed to be the “most customizable class available” and instead of giving you options and saying “choose from these several dozen options” (outside of Infusions) or giving you a platform to actually add functional creativity to the game they just said “there are no rules! Do whatever you want” which is literally the basis if TTRPGs so its kinda just bleh
And to me it just feels kinda bad that the idea of an artificer is, you are throwing flasks at your allies that boost their speed, or you release a pouch of mechanical bees that sting and poison your enemies, but you aren't really doing that. I could do that as a wizard to, and most wizard subclasses get more useful features than the Artificer subclasses imo
Nah, they are pretty useful. Artillerist can create an object that casts what is essentially a first level spell EVERY ROUND, and move along with you, for 10 minutes. And you can have this run on spell slots, as well as getting ones for free. And at 14th level you can have 2 of them. 6th level feature is basically potent cantrip, however it grants you an extra cantrip instead of effecting all cantrips, letting you fill your cantrip slots with utility cantrips. Battle Smith gets to use INT for magic weapon attacks, which is HUGE for an INT based class. They also get an iron defender who can attack, assist them with Help if needed, and use defensive pounce as a reaction to defend the artificer and party members. At higher levels, they continue to improve, dealing extra damage on hits with arcane jolt, and letting defensive pounce deal damage, giving them a potential DPR (with the right infusions and spells) about equal to the paladin. Alchemist, for the flack it gets (and deserves) still is pretty useful. The homonculus, although i agree with the issues with it, can be useful, assisting with Help on ability checks and the alchemical salves are free buff spells (although resilience should be actual hitpoints, not just temporary). Lesser restoration for free INT times is great, as is greater restoration once per long rest with no material components. Alchemical mastery is pretty good, letting you buff your healing spells to be more efficient with your lower spell slots, i just wish it was for all elemental damage, not just acid and poison (which still makes narrative sense, and is really not that OP). Chemical savant is cool, with its resistances, and it would be a bit overpowered if it was all elemental damage. Also, immunity to poisoned is good. i do wish chemical savant had a little more oomph to it, ig the greater restoration is that, but alas. My problem with the alchemist is that i honestly miss the satchel, at least in concept. the homonculus is nice in idea, but would probably work better as an infusion. If alchemical mastery was all elemental damage, hell, I would have no real problem with the alchemist, but it kinda felt like they were forcing you to specialize in acid and poison spells. Alchemists and other subclasses are each designed for a specific style of play, yes, but they did not get this specific. Wand prototype didn't say "any cantrip that deals fire or lighting damage", for example, and Battle Ready didnt say "INT modifier for any ranged magic weapon". But idk.
I think we are loosing track. The full class with features and mechanics and flavor is what i find issue with. The crafting and its systems is a core 5e issue not unique to the Artificer, it probably does it better than most but not that much better cause its bad in and of itself.
Key of the Chameleon
Requirements (a metal key)
While holding this key and pushing it against a lock, a creature can instantly unlock this lock, with the exception of a lock requiring a puzzle to solve (such as pressing in the correct numbers or solving a riddle), or a magic lock (such as a lock created through the spell arcane lock). This key may be used 3 times, before losing all magic until the artificer that infused it has taken a long rest. As a bonus action, if a creature holding this key desires, they can turn it invisible, and hide it on their person, where it is undetectable except by divination magic. While invisible, this key is unable to unlock locks, and must be turned visible again through a bonus action to be used.
Improvements: At 8th level, this key can be used to cast either disguise self or greater invisibility on whoever is holding it without expending a spell slot, provided this creature has an INT score of 10 or higher. This key may only do this once, and regains this ability when the artificer who infused it has taken a long rest.
Ring of the Giants
Requirements (4th level artificer, a bracelet)
Requires attunement
As a bonus action, a creature attuned to this ring can gain the benefits of the Enlarge feature of the spell Enlarge/Reduce. This feature may only be used once, and is regained on a long rest.
oh shit, sorry, computer wasnt reloading, i was interrupting with my ideas for infusions
Wait, does replicate magic item shorten the crafting time for that specific item?
Lmao u right. Should’ve posted this a while ago.
Honestly i dont know what to do to make the class better from where it is right now. For sure a larger option of better infusions and maybe even infusions unique to each subclass. I also am still a firm believer that Magical Crafting becomes a cantrip and you instead choose your subclass at first level.
Maybe some interesting class feature that improves crafting, or the way you learn spells between levels 5 and 18 when you don't get a whole lot of useful features. Besides subclass features which for the most part past the ones you get at 3rd level are pretty boring which is sad. Almost all other subclasses for the other classes i look forward to the features gained at later levels but with these its indifference and to an extent disappointment.
Not to mention functionality in the reflavoring of spells and abilities would really be fantastic.
I had an entire remake i made of the 2016 version the my groups were using for a while and continued using cause we were pretty disappointed by the new version.
Actually a large point to how the infusions function is that none of them require attunment which is why there is such a limit to how many you can have at a given time. That is the one truly genius thing they did with it.
Multiple infusions require attunement. Boots of the winding path, enhanced wand, radiant weapon, repeating shot, many on the list of replicate magic items, repulsion shield, and resistance armor all require attunement. The nice thing about them is that you can have yourself or another creature instantly attune to them after you create them.
Lmao. My brain completely passed over the parentheses at the top of each where it says they require attunment. I cant believe ive been doing that
Well I retract my statement about it being genius and now think its stupid cause most infusions that the Artificer creates are not really better than magical items from any source book, aside from Replicate Magic Item obviously
Thats exactly how it used to be. It was 4 at level 5. 5 at level 15 and Then 6 at level 20
Level 1, the number of items you may attune to is equal to your INT modifier, minimum of 3. Then at level 20 it increases to 6, and you get the saving throw thing. The only classes that would get use out of this by multiclassing are Arcane trickster, Eldritch knight, and Wizard. It also wouldn't kick in right away, unless you do point buy, roll, or are a gnome and put INT as your 15 (i am probably forgetting about something but oh well)
Since the quote system in DDB's forum is a trash fire, I'm just going to try and address these point by point as we go. Apologies for the sloppy formatting.
"Level 1 Proficiencies"
I could wish for a third skill proficiency myself, as it seems to fit with the general archetype of the character, but "tool proficiencies are utterly pants-on-head useless" is an opinion I will fight every time I see it. If one can't figure out how to apply having tools to a problem, one hasn't grown up around enough DIY guys. And they get thieves' tools because the differences between thieves' tools and tinkerer's tools are academic at best. Both involve fine manipulation of small, delicate objects, and the one can often be substituted for the other - if a layperson could spot the difference at all.
That said, Con saves are great, yeah. So glad they didn't shoehorn Wis in here, too many characters out there already with two Mind saves and no Body saves.
"Level 1, Magical Tinkering"
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO. There is already enormous pressure on the artificer's cantrip selections, given that Mending is essentially mandatory. An artificer with no other source of cantrips (from race, multiclass, etc) is basically forced to take Magic Initiate simply to have a worthwhile cantrip list. Again, if you can't figure out a myriad of cool ways Magical Tinkering is super useful, this is perhaps not the class for you. If it's going to be an "artificer-only cantrip", then it needs to be awarded outside of the spell selection, which means it's a class feature, which means it's already working as intended. Not every class feature needs to be a hard-hitting combat superfeat.
"Level 1, Spellcasting"
You can't counterspell a healing potion, no. You can disrupt the magical manipulations of an artificer charging a temporary construction/tool that simulates the effects of a healing potion, however. The artificer's spellcasting is a hybrid of mechanical tinkering and arcane empowerment, using tools and prepared constructions to help shape and command the weave. If you don't care for that, dispense with the rule. Artificers can get a billion different spellcasting foci as it is, it's not hard to sidestep the tool requirement.
"Level 2, Infuse Item"
More infusions would be great, yeah. As would the option to add our own homebrew infusions when this class goes live in DDB. Again, though - if you can't think of creative uses for a set of Many-Handed Pouches, maybe not the class for you. Boots of the Winding Path are trickier, but they have their uses for some artificers. Not one of my preferred infusions either, but then I tend to strongly favor the ones that don't require attunement so I have a hefty bevy of magical tools at my disposal.
"Level 3, Tool Expertise"
Thank you. And here I thought I was the only person in the entire DDB userbase who thought that Tool Expertise was gobshyte amazing. The Skilled feat exists, folks - you should all like it more than you currently do.
"Level 3, Subclass"
I can see the logic behind letting artificers choose at third, rather than first. Give them a couple of levels to feel out what they like if the player doesn't have a strong idea in mind. I would prefer more emphasis on the subclass abilities, but then I'd prefer that of every single class in 5e. The game is fun, but oh my GAWD they oversimplified character creation and advancement so much...
"Level 5, Arcane Armament"
Justification is weird, the ability itself is quite useful. They're doing away with AA in the final version, which is a crying shame. I also thought it was wonky and bizarre when I first saw it, but I warmed up to it as I tinkered with my artificers. Having basic martial capability helped the artificer quite a bit, losing that capability sucks when the artificer doesn't have enough cantrip selections to use them for fighting. Also yes - any artificer that expends one of their cantrip selections on a combat spell is out of their gourd. Arcane Weapon now officially sucks with mono-attack artificers, though I suppose the weird melee artificers can Magic Initiate themselves some Green Flame/Booming Blade action if they want.
Speaking of Booming Blade...man, if only there was an item that let you run up to something, hit it in the face with your Thundering Boom Wrench, then teleport up to fifteen feet away to somewhere the critter would have to trigger Booming Blade's secondary damage to chase you down to...
"Level 10, Right Cantrip for the Job"
Heh. At least you and I are in agreement that it's a really cool idea. Too many folks seem to consider it entirely useless, and never mind that the artificer cantrip list is packed with goodies it's almost impossible to get enough of. I could agree with moving it up earlier in the class progression.
"Level 18, Spell-Storing Item"
Frankly, I don't care about this feature. People are up its butt because it was apparently an iconic thing the 3.5 artificer did, but the 3.5 artificer was apparently also completely pointless to actually have in your party; it was just some secondary demi-PC someone played to make items for the team in town, and occasionally hauled to the front of a dungeon to dispense 'free' spells with. Hell with that. Much prefer an active adventurer like this one. If people desperately want SSI to be the main thing behind the class, I suppose that's what homebrew subclasses are for.
"Level 20, Soul of Artifice"
I want the 2017 version back, where you got extra attunement slots periodically as you leveled and this was a capstone that gave you Slot 6 (instead of Slots 4-6) and the huge bonus to saves. If any class deserves to have more attunement slots available to it outside of level Nobody-Ever-Sees-It, it's this one. Attunement infuriates me anyways, so blah.
"Alchemist Specialization"
Tools of the Trade at least ensures you have your stuff. Yeah, a Bag of Holding becomes mandatory, but frankly I'd want one for an artificer anyways.
Why does everybody hate the homunculus so much? Seriously? it's a mechanical turbo-familiar that has moderately useful combat functions, a myriad of useful abilities outside of combat, and oodles of style. It pisses me off that the mechanical companions are Infusions in Rising, and stripped of anything approaching actual useful abilities. I liked Sprog the Mechanical Imprite, thank you very much >_>
The acid/poison specialization is annoying but never really affects the character anyways. Definitely the weakest of the class' abilities, though being able to double up on INT for Cure Wounds was pretty nice. Helped stretch those scant half-caster spell slots. I'm apparently also the only person in existence who thinks that easy, largely-costless access to Lesser Restoration is actually pretty cool.
Chemical Savant, more of the same. A free Greater Restoration once a day can be a literal lifesaver, and one you don't need to kill 100gp of your Resurrection Slush Fund for. Greater Restoration is the penicillin of D&D - it fixes everything. I'll take one free "Fix whatever's wrong no matter what it is" per day, yes please. Resistance to common Poison damage is great, Acid resistanceis a nice bonus (if a little weak for 14th level, admittedly), and immunity to the Poisoned condition also means immunity to increasingly common "while you are Poisoned this way..." carrier effects that are much more dire.
"Archivist"
Interesting idea, poorly and confusingly executed. Frankly a little relieved it didn't make the cut. Not that the DDB Bad Homebrew community won't ensure there are seventy versions of it available within an hour of the base class going live. None of them actually functional or properly implemented.
"Artillerist"
Anything we have to say about the current UA Artillerist is basically bunk, because they're redoing it around the 'Arcane Firearm'. Whatever that is. That said? The class we got should've been two classes - the turret monkey and the wandslinger. Trying to cram both into one subclass felt weird, off, and like neither the wands nor the (awful) turret got the attention they deserved. Wonky subclass people liked only because it came with more cantrips and with combat-y spells, and the D&D community in general has always over-emphasized combat utility.
"Battlesmith"
Martial weapons are less important than they otherwise might be on a class with as much ability to jazz up simple weapons as this one, especially since artificers get all crossbows anyways. And guns, in any setting that uses them. INT for attacks is awesome and lets you actually get away with focusing on only moderate Dex, though part of me hopes that "Smart Weapon" becomes an infusion and allows any artificer to change a specific weapon to INT, the way Hexblades get to change something to CHA. Either way, the battlesmith's combat abilities are cool.
Heh. I get the distinct feeling you just hate critters altogether and don't want to deal with any kind of companion class. The Iron Defender has the same issues every other damn critter does with being too fragile to hold up to heavy combat, but otherwise the artificer companion rules are clean, elegant, and useful. The Beastmaster could only wish its critters are as easy to implement and work with as the Iron Defender and, to a lesser extent, the Homunculus.
As to whether the Battlesmith is a "support, frontliner, or summoner"? Yes. All of those. Artificers are specifically designed to be able to flex, mix roles, and do what they need to do on the battlefield. If you need your character to have one und precisely vun cleanly-defined role that you and only you fulfill in your party? Once again - consider changing classes.
...anyways. That's enough for now, I think. My eyes are starting to cross and my fingers are starting to cramp. Checking back later now byyeeeee....
Please do not contact or message me.
Is arcane armament confirmed to be being moved to battle smith?
Also it is at times like this that i wish dnd beyond had a "read more" system, thats a big text box.
Oh damn, that shit sucks. Maybe battle smith feature will be like arcane armament. God I hope they dont make it an infusion you are supposed to give to the barbarian to let them attack 3 times per turn or something, i want arcane weapon crossbow to be a build that actually works, and isnt just worse than using cantrips at higher levels, and forcing you to use an infusion on it to let you attack twice instead of letting you give it repeating shot would suck.
remember, arcane tinkering lasts permanently, letting you leave messages from incredible distances. And yeah, it isnt amazing, but it isnt terrible either. They should be standard magic items! But they arent, so they are an infusion instead. The homonculus i like IN CONCEPT a lot. I just dont like how it is a subclass feature and not an infusion. I get it, its a historical thing tied to alchemy, but if enhanced armor and weapon are infusions despite that being the battle mages thing, and enhanced wand is an infusion despite that being an artillerist thing, then homonculus should be an infusion, like a more powerful find familiar or something. I think the reason why i dislike the homonculus being a subclass feature is because it has nothing to do with potions, despite that being what alchemists are traditionally associated with. I get it is another aspect of alchemy, but it is not the one that everyone thinks of when they think of alchemy. And there is no other ability (besides tools of the trade ig) that speaks POTIONS, like the satchel did, and it makes me feel like we had the satchel taken from us for a glorified animal companion, when battle smith already has that and better.
You can, you just rp yourself as saying that. Artificer is either going to be the most streamlined class ever or the most convoluted class ever, and they went for the one that fit into the already streamlined 5e
Okay so;
Magical Tinkering - I never said i wasn't useful or interesting, all i said is that its not More functional than Druidcraft, which is one of my favorite cantrips. Also maybe an infusion for Wand Prototype could help relieve the stress on the cantrip selection side cause its kind of awkward as a class feature but could help.
Infusions - Again, i never said that boots of the winding path or many handed pouch are bad items, i just feel like they are being tied to a class when they should be just standard magical items.
Spellcasting - the booming blade thing is smart especially at early levels, but i was only taking into consideration the class at its face value. No feats to pick up the slack. Slack that shouldn’t even exist in a class that is supposed to be as perpetually flexible as you say
Im sorry but there is nothing you will be able to say that will make me like the Homonculus. Its not that i hate “critters” as you say, i just feel like they could have been so much more interesting and customizable than they are.
Im not gonna respond to everything you said just some things, and i can definitely see what you mean in some regards but i just hope they at least fix some of the glaring issues with the class, meaning the ones two people who disagree on the class, can agree are bad or misplaced features
Also, as ive thought on it more, Magical Tinkering as a cantrip SHOULD be an awarded cantrip. And it should be given at the same time they give you mending for free cause it is pretty dumb how necessary that us for the “critters”, AND ALSO when they let you cast identify for free a number of times equal to your INT mod cause spending a spell slot, or even 10 min, for that as an Artificer is dumb
I think my biggest issue all in all is the idea that this class is supposed to be the “most customizable class available” and instead of giving you options and saying “choose from these several dozen options” (outside of Infusions) or giving you a platform to actually add functional creativity to the game they just said “there are no rules! Do whatever you want” which is literally the basis if TTRPGs so its kinda just bleh
And to me it just feels kinda bad that the idea of an artificer is, you are throwing flasks at your allies that boost their speed, or you release a pouch of mechanical bees that sting and poison your enemies, but you aren't really doing that. I could do that as a wizard to, and most wizard subclasses get more useful features than the Artificer subclasses imo
Nah, they are pretty useful. Artillerist can create an object that casts what is essentially a first level spell EVERY ROUND, and move along with you, for 10 minutes. And you can have this run on spell slots, as well as getting ones for free. And at 14th level you can have 2 of them. 6th level feature is basically potent cantrip, however it grants you an extra cantrip instead of effecting all cantrips, letting you fill your cantrip slots with utility cantrips. Battle Smith gets to use INT for magic weapon attacks, which is HUGE for an INT based class. They also get an iron defender who can attack, assist them with Help if needed, and use defensive pounce as a reaction to defend the artificer and party members. At higher levels, they continue to improve, dealing extra damage on hits with arcane jolt, and letting defensive pounce deal damage, giving them a potential DPR (with the right infusions and spells) about equal to the paladin. Alchemist, for the flack it gets (and deserves) still is pretty useful. The homonculus, although i agree with the issues with it, can be useful, assisting with Help on ability checks and the alchemical salves are free buff spells (although resilience should be actual hitpoints, not just temporary). Lesser restoration for free INT times is great, as is greater restoration once per long rest with no material components. Alchemical mastery is pretty good, letting you buff your healing spells to be more efficient with your lower spell slots, i just wish it was for all elemental damage, not just acid and poison (which still makes narrative sense, and is really not that OP). Chemical savant is cool, with its resistances, and it would be a bit overpowered if it was all elemental damage. Also, immunity to poisoned is good. i do wish chemical savant had a little more oomph to it, ig the greater restoration is that, but alas. My problem with the alchemist is that i honestly miss the satchel, at least in concept. the homonculus is nice in idea, but would probably work better as an infusion. If alchemical mastery was all elemental damage, hell, I would have no real problem with the alchemist, but it kinda felt like they were forcing you to specialize in acid and poison spells. Alchemists and other subclasses are each designed for a specific style of play, yes, but they did not get this specific. Wand prototype didn't say "any cantrip that deals fire or lighting damage", for example, and Battle Ready didnt say "INT modifier for any ranged magic weapon". But idk.
yeah, i agree with making it an infusion. I just think the alchemists problems arent only the somewhat weird homomculus