Didn't read the entire thread yet. This will also be mostly from an Alchemist POV.. since Alchemist is what I play the most (armour next. after that i guess probably would be Rogues or monk)
I'd first have a custom spell though. That lets them make a known but not used Infusion temporarily. So you could actually get usue out of those known ones that you don't really ever use because of standard loadouts for the group. I'd blow a spell slot on it. Just make it once per known infusion, but not concentration. if an artificer wants to blow their entire level 1 slots for the day to give the group dark vision for an hour that seems fine. though later on it might get wonkier. I'm not a balance guy
On general Artificer, I lean into viewing them more as a Debuffer than a Buffer. Mainly because they do not have a ton of slots, and you can more readily choose to debuff, while for buffing its often an idea to do it before the fight-but you dont' have the slots/longevity to really pull that off. (which is an issue with Alchemits's elixirs and action economy).. I really hope Acid Stream becomes an artificer spell. Also some other low level spells. Bane.Entangle, Good berry, Chaos Bolt (fits alchemist way too well) or Guiding bolt (Mainly Alchemistss though) or infict wounds Earth Bind. Flame Blade (Alch would enjoy this paired with green flame) DragonBreath would be great for them. And extremely flavorful for all artificres
lastly I do wish they had some sort of 'movement' spell on their lists. That feels like the kind of utility they should have. Counter spell would be nice. but. it carries thte usual stuff with that spell. But, given their half casty nature. it feels approriate
I really wish Produce Flame, Primal Savegry, Mold Earth, Minor Illusion, Green flame blade cantrips were on the cantrip list. Or at least for Alchemists. The first two are just wonderful fluffs. PF is utility (torch like) and works with their damage and fluffs Explosive flask or alch fire really well. Primal Savagery is a close range spell that alchemists can actually use in combat due to damage restrictions (and poison resistances). Its also great fluff for the old Alchemical Liquid Blades and Allkali Flasks. Mold Earth is just solid utilty, and Minor Illusion makes sense because Magical Tinkering is literally a minor version of this, so it makes sense they would have it. Green flame is just a method for Alchemists to get to be melee if they wanted, while doing decent damage. (This is all without relying on the gray area for using tool spell focus for other spells)
As for subclass spells for Alchemist. They seriously could use Prayer of Healing instead of flaming sphere or acid arrow (i'd rather switch out flaming sphere myself but I prefer the range on acid arrow, and it bothers me the bonus damage only works once with flaming sphere so i'm biased). They're not a main healer. But. they really need a method to heal the group while not spending their entire day supply of spells or elixirs on it. Prayer of healing gets the alch savant bonus, and heals everyone. and is great fluff! Mixing up a meal, or something.
If we were tallking custom for a subclass. I'd opt for a Alchemist Satchel style spell. Concentration, and for the duration you can use a bonus action to draw and use Alchemical Items, and they gain the savant bonus. So, Acid Vials, Alche Fires, Antivenoms, etc. Gain the abilty to use them as a bonus action for a min. This would be flavorful, and allow them to have dynamic combat~
I'd also like to switch out gaseous form myself.. But that has more to do with wanting the pattern "attack and support" spell for each level trend that 2 and 3 mess up.
==============
As a general note. There is also the 'spell research' rules somewhere (DMG? or Xanathars?) it takes a lot of work, but you could have them craft their own new spells via magical item creation and or the spell creation rules. Takes a while. but it represents in game work for it to gain a spell. sleep for example if there is an elf int he party they could start to test their blood, and work on a magical item that stems off their findings (since elves are immune to forced sleep) ultimately making a testable "magic item" that is of limited uses per day (or once ever) as aprototype. Which then leads them to learning it as a spell via those rules.
Lastly there are those Ravnica backgrounds. So you could cost them in terms of that. or in terms of a Feat for stuff. if you wanted an active cost
Ok, first off, artificers are a fun class to play much in the same way that the warlock is, with the exception of being slightly less versatile and having better combat abilities. But do you really think warlocks should get more spells and slots though? Much in the same vein, artificers prepare spells like clerics, so if you expand the spell list, you expand their versatility. Which really leads to a very unbalanced class because they would be able to choose from a spell list the size of the wizard's to prepare, rather than having to spend gold and time writing it down so you can maybe prepare it later.
You can house rule a spell list expansion, but be prepared for one hell of an OP artificer.
Of note: Artificers only get at max 5th level spells, whereas Wizards are full casters with full caster spell slots and Warlocks get Mystic Arcanum granting them in effect one spell slot for each spell level above 5th when they reach the appropriate level.
Books I considered in the following counts: Player's Handbook, Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Counts only include leveled spells.
By level 20 Spells Wizards have: on their list 267, have in their spell book 44+, prepare 20 + INT mod spells per day. Spells Warlocks have: on their list 95 + 10 via subclass, know 15 always "prepared." Spells Artificers have: on their list 69 + 10 via subclass, prepare 10 + INT + (10 always prepared via subclass).
Limiting spell counts to 5th level and below the numbers are: Wizards: 188 Warlocks: 62 + 10 Artificers: 69 + 10
In terms of counts it seems like Artificers have the right number of spells but I do agree that it runs into thematic weirdness of "why can't I do this?" a few times here and there. Particularly the Alchemist but I probably think that mostly because I've spent the most time thinking about the alchemist.
A few spells added to the list likely won't make it too op unless the spells themselves are op.
Yeah. Adding like 3 utility spells to the possible spells they CAN prepare, not always prepared, is by no means gonna make “1 hell of an op artificer”. Versatility is good and all it does is ever so slightly add to the versatility. Fog cloud isnt even that strong of a spell
Didn't read the entire thread yet. This will also be mostly from an Alchemist POV.. since Alchemist is what I play the most (armour next. after that i guess probably would be Rogues or monk)
I'd first have a custom spell though. That lets them make a known but not used Infusion temporarily. So you could actually get usue out of those known ones that you don't really ever use because of standard loadouts for the group. I'd blow a spell slot on it. Just make it once per known infusion, but not concentration. if an artificer wants to blow their entire level 1 slots for the day to give the group dark vision for an hour that seems fine. though later on it might get wonkier. I'm not a balance guy
On general Artificer, I lean into viewing them more as a Debuffer than a Buffer. Mainly because they do not have a ton of slots, and you can more readily choose to debuff, while for buffing its often an idea to do it before the fight-but you dont' have the slots/longevity to really pull that off. (which is an issue with Alchemits's elixirs and action economy)..
I really hope Acid Stream becomes an artificer spell. Also some other low level spells. Bane.Entangle, Good berry,
Chaos Bolt (fits alchemist way too well) or Guiding bolt (Mainly Alchemistss though) or infict wounds
Earth Bind. Flame Blade (Alch would enjoy this paired with green flame)
DragonBreath would be great for them. And extremely flavorful for all artificres
lastly I do wish they had some sort of 'movement' spell on their lists. That feels like the kind of utility they should have. Counter spell would be nice. but. it carries thte usual stuff with that spell. But, given their half casty nature. it feels approriate
I really wish Produce Flame, Primal Savegry, Mold Earth, Minor Illusion, Green flame blade cantrips were on the cantrip list. Or at least for Alchemists. The first two are just wonderful fluffs. PF is utility (torch like) and works with their damage and fluffs Explosive flask or alch fire really well. Primal Savagery is a close range spell that alchemists can actually use in combat due to damage restrictions (and poison resistances). Its also great fluff for the old Alchemical Liquid Blades and Allkali Flasks. Mold Earth is just solid utilty, and Minor Illusion makes sense because Magical Tinkering is literally a minor version of this, so it makes sense they would have it. Green flame is just a method for Alchemists to get to be melee if they wanted, while doing decent damage. (This is all without relying on the gray area for using tool spell focus for other spells)
As for subclass spells for Alchemist. They seriously could use Prayer of Healing instead of flaming sphere or acid arrow (i'd rather switch out flaming sphere myself but I prefer the range on acid arrow, and it bothers me the bonus damage only works once with flaming sphere so i'm biased). They're not a main healer. But. they really need a method to heal the group while not spending their entire day supply of spells or elixirs on it. Prayer of healing gets the alch savant bonus, and heals everyone. and is great fluff! Mixing up a meal, or something.
If we were tallking custom for a subclass. I'd opt for a Alchemist Satchel style spell. Concentration, and for the duration you can use a bonus action to draw and use Alchemical Items, and they gain the savant bonus. So, Acid Vials, Alche Fires, Antivenoms, etc. Gain the abilty to use them as a bonus action for a min. This would be flavorful, and allow them to have dynamic combat~
I'd also like to switch out gaseous form myself.. But that has more to do with wanting the pattern "attack and support" spell for each level trend that 2 and 3 mess up.
==============
As a general note. There is also the 'spell research' rules somewhere (DMG? or Xanathars?) it takes a lot of work, but you could have them craft their own new spells via magical item creation and or the spell creation rules. Takes a while. but it represents in game work for it to gain a spell.
sleep for example if there is an elf int he party they could start to test their blood, and work on a magical item that stems off their findings (since elves are immune to forced sleep) ultimately making a testable "magic item" that is of limited uses per day (or once ever) as aprototype. Which then leads them to learning it as a spell via those rules.
Lastly there are those Ravnica backgrounds. So you could cost them in terms of that. or in terms of a Feat for stuff. if you wanted an active cost
Ok, first off, artificers are a fun class to play much in the same way that the warlock is, with the exception of being slightly less versatile and having better combat abilities. But do you really think warlocks should get more spells and slots though? Much in the same vein, artificers prepare spells like clerics, so if you expand the spell list, you expand their versatility. Which really leads to a very unbalanced class because they would be able to choose from a spell list the size of the wizard's to prepare, rather than having to spend gold and time writing it down so you can maybe prepare it later.
You can house rule a spell list expansion, but be prepared for one hell of an OP artificer.
-Anders
Of note: Artificers only get at max 5th level spells, whereas Wizards are full casters with full caster spell slots and Warlocks get Mystic Arcanum granting them in effect one spell slot for each spell level above 5th when they reach the appropriate level.
Books I considered in the following counts: Player's Handbook, Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Counts only include leveled spells.
By level 20
Spells Wizards have: on their list 267, have in their spell book 44+, prepare 20 + INT mod spells per day.
Spells Warlocks have: on their list 95 + 10 via subclass, know 15 always "prepared."
Spells Artificers have: on their list 69 + 10 via subclass, prepare 10 + INT + (10 always prepared via subclass).
Limiting spell counts to 5th level and below the numbers are:
Wizards: 188
Warlocks: 62 + 10
Artificers: 69 + 10
In terms of counts it seems like Artificers have the right number of spells but I do agree that it runs into thematic weirdness of "why can't I do this?" a few times here and there.
Particularly the Alchemist but I probably think that mostly because I've spent the most time thinking about the alchemist.
A few spells added to the list likely won't make it too op unless the spells themselves are op.
Yeah. Adding like 3 utility spells to the possible spells they CAN prepare, not always prepared, is by no means gonna make “1 hell of an op artificer”. Versatility is good and all it does is ever so slightly add to the versatility. Fog cloud isnt even that strong of a spell
What I meant was adding large amounts of spells (ie, 10+) utility spells are ok though
-Anders
Yeah. There are really only like, 5 spells MAX that i feel could be justified being added to the Artificer list anyway
Artificer "items / Spells"
GM Allowing
Scrolls / spell books for artificers - are actualy schematics for items to be constructed that do a certain spells effect
possible example
allow you to creat a "spell" that is one of the inate spell for other artificer sub classes