One way you could balance it as a DM is you let them have a homebrewed infusion called "Shoulder Mount" that lets them mount the turrent on their shoulder but takes up an infusion slot.
You could even be generous and give it i+1 to attacks/DC/THP in its turret forms but that would be up to you.
Strictly speaking, I don't think you need explicit homebrew to mount the cannon on something. Actual quote from Crawford on this question, answering if you could shoulder-mount an eldritch cannon: "That’s not the intended use, but there’s no rule against it" (from https://www.inverse.com/gaming/dungeons-dragons-tashas-cauldron-of-everything-review)
There's no rule that states the cannon must be held in a hand. "A Small eldritch cannon occupies its space, and a Tiny one can be held in one hand." --- that's using a hand as a size indicator --- "can" not "must." A tiny cannon can also crawl around at 15 feet of movement.
"When you create the cannon, you determine its appearance and whether it has legs." --- to crib from other posters here and their stories about homunculus servants...you could make a tiny cannon in the shape of a hat. Maybe a hat with a chin strap, that sits on your head and blasts things as you direct it with bonus actions... a shoulder mount, or forearm/wrist mount, or anything else like that, should do just fine. It wouldn't need to use the mount rules.
The tradeoff, in terms of game balance, isn't about hand use. If the cannon is walking around on its own, it's a separate object with separate HP, drawing attacks from things, which is better for you (consume the enemy's action economy). However, it's also slow and restricted to 15 feet of move, which is probably a negative. If you, instead, wear it or mount it on your shield or whatever, it moves with you (positive), probably isn't drawing attacks (negative), and is probably still taking damage/saves from AoEs that hit you (negative). (And, if your DM wants, maybe enemies start trying to snipe it off of you...)
Thanks for this! I think we have the same understanding of the trade-offs of wearing vs. not wearing the cannon.
But also, you made a very good point, and I actually had the wrong idea about the cannon. For whatever reason, I assumed the TINY version of the cannon HAD to be held, and therefore did not have movement. But you're correct, it never says that in the description. A tiny cannon can also have legs and 15 feet movement. Which makes my homebrew solution needless. A tiny cannon should easily be able to crawl and mount itself on a shoulder plate or mounting point.
Strictly speaking, I don't think you need explicit homebrew to mount the cannon on something. Actual quote from Crawford on this question, answering if you could shoulder-mount an eldritch cannon: "That’s not the intended use, but there’s no rule against it" (from https://www.inverse.com/gaming/dungeons-dragons-tashas-cauldron-of-everything-review)
There's no rule that states the cannon must be held in a hand. "A Small eldritch cannon occupies its space, and a Tiny one can be held in one hand." --- that's using a hand as a size indicator --- "can" not "must." A tiny cannon can also crawl around at 15 feet of movement.
"When you create the cannon, you determine its appearance and whether it has legs." --- to crib from other posters here and their stories about homunculus servants...you could make a tiny cannon in the shape of a hat. Maybe a hat with a chin strap, that sits on your head and blasts things as you direct it with bonus actions... a shoulder mount, or forearm/wrist mount, or anything else like that, should do just fine. It wouldn't need to use the mount rules.
The tradeoff, in terms of game balance, isn't about hand use. If the cannon is walking around on its own, it's a separate object with separate HP, drawing attacks from things, which is better for you (consume the enemy's action economy). However, it's also slow and restricted to 15 feet of move, which is probably a negative. If you, instead, wear it or mount it on your shield or whatever, it moves with you (positive), probably isn't drawing attacks (negative), and is probably still taking damage/saves from AoEs that hit you (negative). (And, if your DM wants, maybe enemies start trying to snipe it off of you...)
Not to mention there nothing preventing anyone from just picking it up and walking away with it.
Not a good plan if it's a flamethrower. Terrible plan if the artificer is at least 9th level.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Strictly speaking, I don't think you need explicit homebrew to mount the cannon on something. Actual quote from Crawford on this question, answering if you could shoulder-mount an eldritch cannon: "That’s not the intended use, but there’s no rule against it" (from https://www.inverse.com/gaming/dungeons-dragons-tashas-cauldron-of-everything-review)
There's no rule that states the cannon must be held in a hand. "A Small eldritch cannon occupies its space, and a Tiny one can be held in one hand." --- that's using a hand as a size indicator --- "can" not "must." A tiny cannon can also crawl around at 15 feet of movement.
"When you create the cannon, you determine its appearance and whether it has legs." --- to crib from other posters here and their stories about homunculus servants...you could make a tiny cannon in the shape of a hat. Maybe a hat with a chin strap, that sits on your head and blasts things as you direct it with bonus actions... a shoulder mount, or forearm/wrist mount, or anything else like that, should do just fine. It wouldn't need to use the mount rules.
The tradeoff, in terms of game balance, isn't about hand use. If the cannon is walking around on its own, it's a separate object with separate HP, drawing attacks from things, which is better for you (consume the enemy's action economy). However, it's also slow and restricted to 15 feet of move, which is probably a negative. If you, instead, wear it or mount it on your shield or whatever, it moves with you (positive), probably isn't drawing attacks (negative), and is probably still taking damage/saves from AoEs that hit you (negative). (And, if your DM wants, maybe enemies start trying to snipe it off of you...)
Just pointing out a few things where you are wrong. The size doesn't matter when it comes to the speed and the cannon doesn't stop having AC and HP just because you pick it up.
The mount rules comes into play if you have a cannon with legs that climbs up ontop of a bigger creature. Even without the JC opinions they could still do that under the bog standard mount rules.
Presumably, the caster wants to hold tools to be able to cast spells. If your DM is less forgiving about it mounting to you, consider simply infusing your shield with the +1AC infusion. That makes it a valid spell focus, freeing your other hand of the tool and letting you 'hold' the tiny cannon :)
Actually, I built my eldritch cannon like a snake (U-R-VIPER.01, yeah it has a name), the cool thing is that works in both ways, it can move through battlefield or it can go up my spine and become a turret for my left shoulder. it can even rotate its snake-like head to shoot even things behind me.
By the way, let's suppose the artificer through magic initiate gets Find Familiar (for flavor... a flying drone using hawk stats block), if the cannon si really small, can it be attached to the familiar? So the artificer can get a flying, scout drone with cannons? Wouldn't that be awesome?
I believe that to act as a mount for a tiny anything the mount thing has to be at least 1 size larger so small or medium sized so your talking blood hawk, eagle, pteranodon sized.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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One way you could balance it as a DM is you let them have a homebrewed infusion called "Shoulder Mount" that lets them mount the turrent on their shoulder but takes up an infusion slot.
You could even be generous and give it i+1 to attacks/DC/THP in its turret forms but that would be up to you.
Thanks for this! I think we have the same understanding of the trade-offs of wearing vs. not wearing the cannon.
But also, you made a very good point, and I actually had the wrong idea about the cannon. For whatever reason, I assumed the TINY version of the cannon HAD to be held, and therefore did not have movement. But you're correct, it never says that in the description. A tiny cannon can also have legs and 15 feet movement. Which makes my homebrew solution needless. A tiny cannon should easily be able to crawl and mount itself on a shoulder plate or mounting point.
THANKS KENCLARY!
Not a good plan if it's a flamethrower. Terrible plan if the artificer is at least 9th level.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Just pointing out a few things where you are wrong. The size doesn't matter when it comes to the speed and the cannon doesn't stop having AC and HP just because you pick it up.
The mount rules comes into play if you have a cannon with legs that climbs up ontop of a bigger creature. Even without the JC opinions they could still do that under the bog standard mount rules.
Presumably, the caster wants to hold tools to be able to cast spells. If your DM is less forgiving about it mounting to you, consider simply infusing your shield with the +1AC infusion. That makes it a valid spell focus, freeing your other hand of the tool and letting you 'hold' the tiny cannon :)
Actually, I built my eldritch cannon like a snake (U-R-VIPER.01, yeah it has a name), the cool thing is that works in both ways, it can move through battlefield or it can go up my spine and become a turret for my left shoulder. it can even rotate its snake-like head to shoot even things behind me.
By the way, let's suppose the artificer through magic initiate gets Find Familiar (for flavor... a flying drone using hawk stats block), if the cannon si really small, can it be attached to the familiar? So the artificer can get a flying, scout drone with cannons? Wouldn't that be awesome?
I believe that to act as a mount for a tiny anything the mount thing has to be at least 1 size larger so small or medium sized so your talking blood hawk, eagle, pteranodon sized.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.