how would you build this combo? I am planning to go 6 into path of beast taking skill expert to become an expert grappler, then the rest into rune knight. (might end up with a 10/10 split if we hit 20)
how would you build this combo? I am planning to go 6 into path of beast taking skill expert to become an expert grappler, then the rest into rune knight. (might end up with a 10/10 split if we hit 20)
What is your goal and intention with the multi-class?
Something to consider (not necessarily discouraging it), as I'm sure you're aware, when you rage you have advantage on grapple checks. The same is true when you "grow" through Giant's Might. So there's some overlap.
Also, entering a Rage and Giant's Might both use a bonus action.
I'm not discouraging the build, just pointing out that there are a lot of mechanical considerations when doing so. I have a build concept myself, of 6 Rune Knight, 2 Barbarian, the rest Rune Knight.
Fighters and Barbs mix really well when you do them right.
i was mostly going rune knight for the size growth so i can grapple larger creatures. I have a vision of batista bombing a dragon and mechanically I dont have a chance without the enlarge ability.
If you want to focus on grappling, I would actually recommend Tavern Brawler over Skill Expert. Not to say that Skill Expert wouldn't be useful for other reasons, but whether you're enlarged by Rune Knight or Raging, you're already going to have advantage on STR checks in combat. Tavern Brawler, however, gives you opportunities for grappling as a bonus action, which allows you to still grapple an enemy while still laying down some hurt, even if it has to be an unarmed or improvised attack. If you've got the stat array for it, maybe go for both, but in terms of just pure grappling options, Tavern Brawler will give you more opportunities.
That out of the way, I would actually only take Beast to level 3 and take Rune Knight the rest of the way. Bestial Soul is pretty cool for giving you some exploration abilities, but overall I think it pales in comparison to a Rune Knight's Runes. Rune Knights are just absolutely packed to the gills with features... just having the runes gives you skills and abilities to assist with exploration and roleplay, then on top of that each rune has a potent combat application, and on top of that on each Martial Archetype Feature you gain a new, exciting feature in addition to another Rune. On top of that, Fighter gives you more ASI's overall, so that's more room to play with feats or to just max out more stats.
So, yeah... I always encourage getting to your Extra Attack as soon as possible, so here's what my level Progression would be like in this build.
Start with Fighter and take the Unarmed Fighting style at level 1. This gives you a huge boost to your unarmed strikes and, more importantly for your grappler build, allows you to deal extra damage without any additional action just by having someone grappled.
Take Fighter to level 3 and select the Frost Rune and Fire Rune. The Frost Rune allows you to give yourself a +2 bonus to STR-based ability checks (among other things) for when you really want to boost your grapple. Fire gives you what kind of amounts to a once-per-short-rest "Super-grapple", restraining an enemy and dealing extra fire damage.
At 4th level pick up the Tavern Brawler Feat. Now, fully unarmed, you're still able to deal D8+STR damage and then grapple as a bonus action. When you're enlarged you'll have Advantage on that grapple check and you'll be able to grapple up to Huge creatures.
Hit level 5 just for Extra Attack. More damage, more opportunities for grappling, or even combining grappling with a shove to completely ruin an enemy's day.
Then take your Barbarian classes up to level 3. Just as a warning for Tavern Brawler purposes... a Tavern Brawler's bonus action grapple only triggers on an Unarmed Strike or an Improvised Weapon Attack. Form of the Beast attacks are considered Natural Weapons and are considered Simple Melee Weapons for situations like this. So you'll have a bit of juggling to do... luckily you can still make Unarmed Strikes that deal solid damage without utilizing the Natural Weapons (imagine giving someone an elbow strike instead of a claw attack to disorient them and grab them in a grapple). But once you have a target grappled or restrained you can just go buck wild on them with a combination of your Rune abilities.
From there just go Rune Knight the rest of the way. If your stats need some juicing your next Fighter level gives you an ASI, or if you really want to make yourself the master of grappling take Skill Expert to maximize your Athletics. Ironically the Grappler Feat isn't particularly useful for you... you can just give yourself advantage as a Barbarian, and while the double-restrained pin has some tactical use, it's kind of boring, really.
i was mostly going rune knight for the size growth so i can grapple larger creatures. I have a vision of batista bombing a dragon and mechanically I dont have a chance without the enlarge ability.
Just going straight Rune Knight will do the trick. What are you looking to get out of Barbarian?
Going 2 levels of Barbarian gives you Rage and Reckless Attack, which are huge buffs to a fighter. But it doesn't further your goal, which is already achieved with Rune Knight. Giant's Might enlarges you (which you need to grapple huge creatures) and gives you advantage on strength checks, which applies to your Athletics check to grapple someone.
In summary, what you're going after is very simple and straight forward just by choosing Rune Knight. A 2 level Barbarian multi-class is a big offensive and defensive buff that neither helps, nor hinders your grapple goal.
the main problem is that i didnt start to go more for grappling till recently, im already a level 5 beast barb and started looking for a multiclass for rune knight because i saw the potential. Its good to know I have not completely destroyed a build yet (not as optimal for sure, but still fun). From here ill just start to go rune knight. i will probably still take one more barb level just for bestial soul since im already so close. would not have if i wasnt 1 level away from it.
the main problem is that i didnt start to go more for grappling till recently, im already a level 5 beast barb and started looking for a multiclass for rune knight because i saw the potential. Its good to know I have not completely destroyed a build yet (not as optimal for sure, but still fun). From here ill just start to go rune knight. i will probably still take one more barb level just for bestial soul since im already so close. would not have if i wasnt 1 level away from it.
A beast Barbarian is a ton of fun, and super effective. Can you post your build? I'll look it over and make some recommendations.
Your main goal is to be able to grapple a huge creature, correct?
Three levels in Wizard or Sorcerer are enough to pick up the Enlarge/Reduce spell to grow one size bigger (or just let a party member cast it on you). Also see this thread:
Three levels in Wizard or Sorcerer are enough to pick up the Enlarge/Reduce spell to grow one size bigger (or just let a party member cast it on you). Also see this thread:
Yeah, if you're already level 5 Beast Barb you might as well take that extra step to get your Bestial Soul.
I agree with this. ExtraThiccTwix, so I would:
Step 1: go to 6 for:
Jumping
When you jump, you can make a Strength (Athletics) check and extend your jump by a number of feet equal to the check’s total. You can make this special check only once per turn.
Dude, your jumping will be insane! Roll Athletics (you have +11), and extend your jump by the total dice roll. Here's why you want that.
Step 2: Take Rune Knight to 3, but try to find an enlarge source (a teammate who's a spell caster?) in the mean time. Now when that huge dragon swoops down, you can jump at him and grapple him out of the sky!
Three levels in Wizard or Sorcerer are enough to pick up the Enlarge/Reduce spell to grow one size bigger (or just let a party member cast it on you). Also see this thread:
"If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging."
So even if you cast enlarge and then raged your concentration would break. Great if another player in your party casts it on you though, especially with the extra attack granted by claws.
One bonus for being a beast barbarian is the bite or tail natural weapons. They give you a way to still attack while grappling two different targets.
Three levels in Wizard or Sorcerer are enough to pick up the Enlarge/Reduce spell to grow one size bigger (or just let a party member cast it on you). Also see this thread:
"If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging."
So even if you cast enlarge and then raged your concentration would break. Great if another player in your party casts it on you though, especially with the extra attack granted by claws.
One bonus for being a beast barbarian is the bite or tail natural weapons. They give you a way to still attack while grappling two different targets.
I went shield master beast barb on mine, and I would sometimes use the tail, sometimes claws. With the tail you could bonus action shove them prone after you already attacked and grappled the target, all on one turn. Next round maintain the grapple, they can't stand up, and your attacks are with advantage (without reckless attack), and theirs are with disadvantage.
Meanwhile, if other creatures attack you, you haven't used reckless attack so they're normal attacks. And you have +2 AC from your shield, plus you can add 1d8 to your AC if an attack hits you with the tail sweep.
i have skill expert and expertised athletics (why its so high).
I actually love the idea of the super jump to grab the dragon out of the sky. This is now my current plan. we used to have a sorcerer who could cast enlarge on me and we called it plan b. (we never got to use it before the sorcerer died which is probably why I started looking into it.)
Plan D (which was technically the main plan) was for drugs. We already tricked the dragon we were its followers in a random encounter, so now we were spiking barrels of wine with drugs to make it sleep so we can try and kill it in its sleep.
if you want to go a unarmed fighting, grappling Rune Knight, I would ask the DM about your character getting the eldritch claw tattoo at some point when magic resistance becomes an issue.
how would you build this combo? I am planning to go 6 into path of beast taking skill expert to become an expert grappler, then the rest into rune knight. (might end up with a 10/10 split if we hit 20)
What is your goal and intention with the multi-class?
Something to consider (not necessarily discouraging it), as I'm sure you're aware, when you rage you have advantage on grapple checks. The same is true when you "grow" through Giant's Might. So there's some overlap.
Also, entering a Rage and Giant's Might both use a bonus action.
I'm not discouraging the build, just pointing out that there are a lot of mechanical considerations when doing so. I have a build concept myself, of 6 Rune Knight, 2 Barbarian, the rest Rune Knight.
Fighters and Barbs mix really well when you do them right.
i was mostly going rune knight for the size growth so i can grapple larger creatures. I have a vision of batista bombing a dragon and mechanically I dont have a chance without the enlarge ability.
If you want to focus on grappling, I would actually recommend Tavern Brawler over Skill Expert. Not to say that Skill Expert wouldn't be useful for other reasons, but whether you're enlarged by Rune Knight or Raging, you're already going to have advantage on STR checks in combat. Tavern Brawler, however, gives you opportunities for grappling as a bonus action, which allows you to still grapple an enemy while still laying down some hurt, even if it has to be an unarmed or improvised attack. If you've got the stat array for it, maybe go for both, but in terms of just pure grappling options, Tavern Brawler will give you more opportunities.
That out of the way, I would actually only take Beast to level 3 and take Rune Knight the rest of the way. Bestial Soul is pretty cool for giving you some exploration abilities, but overall I think it pales in comparison to a Rune Knight's Runes. Rune Knights are just absolutely packed to the gills with features... just having the runes gives you skills and abilities to assist with exploration and roleplay, then on top of that each rune has a potent combat application, and on top of that on each Martial Archetype Feature you gain a new, exciting feature in addition to another Rune. On top of that, Fighter gives you more ASI's overall, so that's more room to play with feats or to just max out more stats.
So, yeah... I always encourage getting to your Extra Attack as soon as possible, so here's what my level Progression would be like in this build.
Start with Fighter and take the Unarmed Fighting style at level 1. This gives you a huge boost to your unarmed strikes and, more importantly for your grappler build, allows you to deal extra damage without any additional action just by having someone grappled.
Take Fighter to level 3 and select the Frost Rune and Fire Rune. The Frost Rune allows you to give yourself a +2 bonus to STR-based ability checks (among other things) for when you really want to boost your grapple. Fire gives you what kind of amounts to a once-per-short-rest "Super-grapple", restraining an enemy and dealing extra fire damage.
At 4th level pick up the Tavern Brawler Feat. Now, fully unarmed, you're still able to deal D8+STR damage and then grapple as a bonus action. When you're enlarged you'll have Advantage on that grapple check and you'll be able to grapple up to Huge creatures.
Hit level 5 just for Extra Attack. More damage, more opportunities for grappling, or even combining grappling with a shove to completely ruin an enemy's day.
Then take your Barbarian classes up to level 3. Just as a warning for Tavern Brawler purposes... a Tavern Brawler's bonus action grapple only triggers on an Unarmed Strike or an Improvised Weapon Attack. Form of the Beast attacks are considered Natural Weapons and are considered Simple Melee Weapons for situations like this. So you'll have a bit of juggling to do... luckily you can still make Unarmed Strikes that deal solid damage without utilizing the Natural Weapons (imagine giving someone an elbow strike instead of a claw attack to disorient them and grab them in a grapple). But once you have a target grappled or restrained you can just go buck wild on them with a combination of your Rune abilities.
From there just go Rune Knight the rest of the way. If your stats need some juicing your next Fighter level gives you an ASI, or if you really want to make yourself the master of grappling take Skill Expert to maximize your Athletics. Ironically the Grappler Feat isn't particularly useful for you... you can just give yourself advantage as a Barbarian, and while the double-restrained pin has some tactical use, it's kind of boring, really.
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Just going straight Rune Knight will do the trick. What are you looking to get out of Barbarian?
Going 2 levels of Barbarian gives you Rage and Reckless Attack, which are huge buffs to a fighter. But it doesn't further your goal, which is already achieved with Rune Knight. Giant's Might enlarges you (which you need to grapple huge creatures) and gives you advantage on strength checks, which applies to your Athletics check to grapple someone.
In summary, what you're going after is very simple and straight forward just by choosing Rune Knight. A 2 level Barbarian multi-class is a big offensive and defensive buff that neither helps, nor hinders your grapple goal.
the main problem is that i didnt start to go more for grappling till recently, im already a level 5 beast barb and started looking for a multiclass for rune knight because i saw the potential. Its good to know I have not completely destroyed a build yet (not as optimal for sure, but still fun). From here ill just start to go rune knight. i will probably still take one more barb level just for bestial soul since im already so close. would not have if i wasnt 1 level away from it.
Yeah, if you're already level 5 Beast Barb you might as well take that extra step to get your Bestial Soul.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
A beast Barbarian is a ton of fun, and super effective. Can you post your build? I'll look it over and make some recommendations.
Your main goal is to be able to grapple a huge creature, correct?
Sure! ill send you the pdf in a message
Do you have any feats? I looked but did not see any. Just want to make sure I'm not missing it.
Three levels in Wizard or Sorcerer are enough to pick up the Enlarge/Reduce spell to grow one size bigger (or just let a party member cast it on you). Also see this thread:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/wizard/125641-large-wizard
That's falling three levels behind to dip in a class that won't sync well with Barbarian at all. And the spell will cost him his action.
Fighter has great synergy with Barbarian, and at level 3 he'll be able to grow as a bonus action, plus the Runes he gains are fantastic.
I agree with this. ExtraThiccTwix, so I would:
Step 1: go to 6 for:
Jumping
When you jump, you can make a Strength (Athletics) check and extend your jump by a number of feet equal to the check’s total. You can make this special check only once per turn.
Dude, your jumping will be insane! Roll Athletics (you have +11), and extend your jump by the total dice roll. Here's why you want that.
Step 2: Take Rune Knight to 3, but try to find an enlarge source (a teammate who's a spell caster?) in the mean time. Now when that huge dragon swoops down, you can jump at him and grapple him out of the sky!
Sadly this doesn't work in combination with rage.
"If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging."
So even if you cast enlarge and then raged your concentration would break. Great if another player in your party casts it on you though, especially with the extra attack granted by claws.
One bonus for being a beast barbarian is the bite or tail natural weapons. They give you a way to still attack while grappling two different targets.
I went shield master beast barb on mine, and I would sometimes use the tail, sometimes claws. With the tail you could bonus action shove them prone after you already attacked and grappled the target, all on one turn. Next round maintain the grapple, they can't stand up, and your attacks are with advantage (without reckless attack), and theirs are with disadvantage.
Meanwhile, if other creatures attack you, you haven't used reckless attack so they're normal attacks. And you have +2 AC from your shield, plus you can add 1d8 to your AC if an attack hits you with the tail sweep.
i have skill expert and expertised athletics (why its so high).
I actually love the idea of the super jump to grab the dragon out of the sky. This is now my current plan. we used to have a sorcerer who could cast enlarge on me and we called it plan b. (we never got to use it before the sorcerer died which is probably why I started looking into it.)
Plan D (which was technically the main plan) was for drugs. We already tricked the dragon we were its followers in a random encounter, so now we were spiking barrels of wine with drugs to make it sleep so we can try and kill it in its sleep.
if you want to go a unarmed fighting, grappling Rune Knight, I would ask the DM about your character getting the eldritch claw tattoo at some point when magic resistance becomes an issue.
Please tell me your character is a kobold...
Sorry mate thiccoles Chadicus is a dragonborn
what is your stat setup? that matters also as to what feats and when.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt