I am new to D&D and was researching playing a Totem Warrior Barbarian for my first character. On many of the guides/builds I have seen the starting stats for a Half-Orc Barbarian using the standard array put 15 for STR and 14 for CON, so with racial bonuses 17 STR and 15 CON. My question is why is that better than 14 for STR and 15 for CON, for 16 STR and 16 CON with racial bonuses? This gives a better CON modifier and doesn't change the STR modifier.
At the end of the day, it seems like a choice between lift, push, pull weight limit vs extra hit points. Is there another reason I am not considering? What is better for gameplay?
At level 4 I was planning on using ASI to get to 18 STR and 16 CON either way I start, so does it really even matter that much for the beginning of a campaign?
It doesn't matter and you should put the scores however you like them. Personally I feel that barbarians in general benefit more from having a higher Con than a high strength but that's also a matter of preferences.
It doesn't matter and you should put the scores however you like them. Personally I feel that barbarians in general benefit more from having a higher Con than a high strength but that's also a matter of preferences.
Especially true if you want to be the Party's tank/defender. Barbarians rely less on AC to survive enemy attacks and more on their deep HP pool. Lots of HP is also useful for when you're subjected to saving throw effects that deal damage, all of the AC in the world won't help you if you fail a Dexterity save.
STR 15…need your highest here, also add your +1 here imo
DEX 13 here…due to unarmored defense you don’t dump this stat, but don’t prioritize it either. Starts you with a 14AC.
CON 14 second highest here, add your +2 here imo
INT 8 dump this. Barbarians do potentially get Nature proficiency but I think INT saves and checks are less common
WIS 12…could go to 10 here but Perception checks are plentiful so the extra 1 may make a difference here
CHA 10…case can be made for a 12, but the downside of failing an intimidation check isn’t too bad most of the time
You could mess around some with the STR, DEX, CON if you want and go 15, 13, 14 and add the +2 to STR and the +1 to CON. This will result in a slightly weaker character from levels 1-3 since you don’t benefit from a 17 STR versus a 16 STR, and your AC will only be 13 with 3 fewer hit points. But at level 4 you can take a +1 STR and +1 CON and end up in the same place.
Also worth noting, Barbarians can wear medium armor and use a shield to get a higher AC. Just don’t wear heavy
I am new to D&D and was researching playing a Totem Warrior Barbarian for my first character. On many of the guides/builds I have seen the starting stats for a Half-Orc Barbarian using the standard array put 15 for STR and 14 for CON, so with racial bonuses 17 STR and 15 CON. My question is why is that better than 14 for STR and 15 for CON, for 16 STR and 16 CON with racial bonuses? This gives a better CON modifier and doesn't change the STR modifier.
At the end of the day, it seems like a choice between lift, push, pull weight limit vs extra hit points. Is there another reason I am not considering? What is better for gameplay?
At level 4 I was planning on using ASI to get to 18 STR and 16 CON either way I start, so does it really even matter that much for the beginning of a campaign?
Thanks!
The most straight forward answer is "yes, 16/16 is the way to go" since you are getting a more even character from the get go and for a lot of campaigns where advancements aren't common (the highest I've personally ever gone was like... level 11) this is certainly the safest option for a new player.
With that having been said though, there is something to be said for half-stats and that is Feats. Feats can and do come with attribute points for some of them with various side properties buffing them up so as long as you are ok with not maxing key stats out as quickly you can get a whack of extra perks.
Also, Just a few other thoughts on barbarians:
1. If you are looking to be a tank, strength is actually less important to you then Dex; a rapier, shield, decent dex and con can make your barbarian an obnoxously hard to kill character (I've done this twice, once with a hill dwarf bear totem barbarian that at level 13 had 149 hps (or nearly 300 while raging) and once with a path of the beast Shadar-kai that (with Dex 18 con 18) had a resting AC of 20 with a shield and then could add an extra 1d8 to their AC as a reaction against an attack).
2. Carefully consider you're party's composition before you make your specialization; if you are in a melee heavy party then something like wolf totem can be really good since it lets people churn out a lot of damage against enemies fighting you, while if that's not the case Bear becomes just a complete Chonk.
I hadn't considered going deeper into DEX and using a rapier/shield for the higher AC bonuses. However, from a background/lore aspect, in my mind a barbarian doesn't use a shield, but rather a greataxe/greatsword or dual wield.
As for group composition, I had considered going Wolf instead of Bear because we were going to be Barbarian, Druid, Rogue, "caster", and Paladin. However, the Paladin is having commitment issues, haha. So I was going to lean more towards tank and the undecided "caster" switched to Bard; so it will most likely end up being Barbarian, Druid, Rogue, Bard. Based on the 4 man composition would you choose Bear or Wolf? I was thinking the Bard would do buffs, so Bear would be better?
Nothing wrong with being a big 'ol great axe wielder and you absolutely want strength for that.
I'd suggest bear if you're going for reliability; it works as a solid Chonk of a frontliner.
Also pro tip for playing as a bear: getting toughness is almost worth prioritizing for your level 4 slot, since that will basically give you 4 extra HPs per level while raging (at level 4 that would push a 16 con barbarian to an average of 50 hps or 100 while raging over the 84 you'd get without it). Sure you'll lose a little bit of damage in the meantime but there is a sort of joy to being a pinata that won't bust open for the GM that going all in on HP's brings.
Thank you for the feat tip. I'll definitely consider that at level 4 instead of the ASI. Maybe I can talk our DM into a house rules feat at level 1 with all this new One D&D talk going on and get the best of both worlds. haha
I would go with the 16/16 stats. But personally a ALWAYS roll when making a character, when rolling you can get INCREDIBLE stats if you’re lucky. The lowest you could possibly get (if your using the standard roll 4 take the top 3 rolls) is 3, but if your DM is any kind of decent they’ll let you re roll that, and at the same time it maxes at 18, which means you could have a score of 20 (depending on your race) at level one. The best rolls I ever got for a character was 18 18 16 16 16 13, it was awesome. All in all you do you in the end but I think rolling is always the best option
I would go with the 16/16 stats. But personally a ALWAYS roll when making a character, when rolling you can get INCREDIBLE stats if you’re lucky. The lowest you could possibly get (if your using the standard roll 4 take the top 3 rolls) is 3, but if your DM is any kind of decent they’ll let you re roll that, and at the same time it maxes at 18, which means you could have a score of 20 (depending on your race) at level one. The best rolls I ever got for a character was 18 18 16 16 16 13, it was awesome. All in all you do you in the end but I think rolling is always the best option
Your post is rather off topic but whether you get to roll is the decision of the DM not the player. Yes, if you are given the choice on average rolling gives you slightly better stats but comes with the risk of rolling really poorly, if the DM then allows a re-roll then rolling gets much better stats. I would hate to be the player who rolls 14,12,11,11,9,7 who gets to play alongside your 18 18 16 16 16 13 character and for that reason as a DM I never allow rolling for stats.
So it all depends on the DM. Every DM I’ve ever played under let me decide how to get my stats, but once again it’s up to the DM. I haven’t been a DM for a long time, but I’ve already made nearly 2 dozen characters, and the lowest I’ve ever had a player roll was 7 while the average is 12-16 and almost all of them get at least one 17 or 18.
I play a level 13 half-orc totem barb. We used point buy, but my starting scores were 15, 14, 14, 10, 10, 8. You get racial bonuses to str and con anyway as half-orc. I think the order of importance is str, con, dex, and the rest are basically dump stats, but play how ya like.
I play a level 13 half-orc totem barb. We used point buy, but my starting scores were 15, 14, 14, 10, 10, 8. You get racial bonuses to str and con anyway as half-orc. I think the order of importance is str, con, dex, and the rest are basically dump stats, but play how ya like.
Be aware if you dump Wisdom, fear effects are quite frustrating on a barbarian. There's nothing worse than playing the fearless brute who turns tail and flees the battlefield, leaving their more mentally strong companions behind. Especially with the increased movement speed that barbarians get.
Be aware if you dump Wisdom, fear effects are quite frustrating on a barbarian. There's nothing worse than playing the fearless brute who turns tail and flees the battlefield, leaving their more mentally strong companions behind. Especially with the increased movement speed that barbarians get.
Good point. That hasn't happened to my barb yet, but I expect it will someday with a wis 10.
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I am new to D&D and was researching playing a Totem Warrior Barbarian for my first character. On many of the guides/builds I have seen the starting stats for a Half-Orc Barbarian using the standard array put 15 for STR and 14 for CON, so with racial bonuses 17 STR and 15 CON. My question is why is that better than 14 for STR and 15 for CON, for 16 STR and 16 CON with racial bonuses? This gives a better CON modifier and doesn't change the STR modifier.
At the end of the day, it seems like a choice between lift, push, pull weight limit vs extra hit points. Is there another reason I am not considering? What is better for gameplay?
At level 4 I was planning on using ASI to get to 18 STR and 16 CON either way I start, so does it really even matter that much for the beginning of a campaign?
Thanks!
It doesn't matter and you should put the scores however you like them. Personally I feel that barbarians in general benefit more from having a higher Con than a high strength but that's also a matter of preferences.
Especially true if you want to be the Party's tank/defender. Barbarians rely less on AC to survive enemy attacks and more on their deep HP pool. Lots of HP is also useful for when you're subjected to saving throw effects that deal damage, all of the AC in the world won't help you if you fail a Dexterity save.
I would go STR 16 & CON 16 since having one more point in STR is a waste but putting that that point in CON is not.
Thanks for the input everyone. Sounds like 16/16 is the way to go.
Using a standard array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
STR 15…need your highest here, also add your +1 here imo
DEX 13 here…due to unarmored defense you don’t dump this stat, but don’t prioritize it either. Starts you with a 14AC.
CON 14 second highest here, add your +2 here imo
INT 8 dump this. Barbarians do potentially get Nature proficiency but I think INT saves and checks are less common
WIS 12…could go to 10 here but Perception checks are plentiful so the extra 1 may make a difference here
CHA 10…case can be made for a 12, but the downside of failing an intimidation check isn’t too bad most of the time
You could mess around some with the STR, DEX, CON if you want and go 15, 13, 14 and add the +2 to STR and the +1 to CON. This will result in a slightly weaker character from levels 1-3 since you don’t benefit from a 17 STR versus a 16 STR, and your AC will only be 13 with 3 fewer hit points. But at level 4 you can take a +1 STR and +1 CON and end up in the same place.
Also worth noting, Barbarians can wear medium armor and use a shield to get a higher AC. Just don’t wear heavy
The most straight forward answer is "yes, 16/16 is the way to go" since you are getting a more even character from the get go and for a lot of campaigns where advancements aren't common (the highest I've personally ever gone was like... level 11) this is certainly the safest option for a new player.
With that having been said though, there is something to be said for half-stats and that is Feats. Feats can and do come with attribute points for some of them with various side properties buffing them up so as long as you are ok with not maxing key stats out as quickly you can get a whack of extra perks.
Also, Just a few other thoughts on barbarians:
1. If you are looking to be a tank, strength is actually less important to you then Dex; a rapier, shield, decent dex and con can make your barbarian an obnoxously hard to kill character (I've done this twice, once with a hill dwarf bear totem barbarian that at level 13 had 149 hps (or nearly 300 while raging) and once with a path of the beast Shadar-kai that (with Dex 18 con 18) had a resting AC of 20 with a shield and then could add an extra 1d8 to their AC as a reaction against an attack).
2. Carefully consider you're party's composition before you make your specialization; if you are in a melee heavy party then something like wolf totem can be really good since it lets people churn out a lot of damage against enemies fighting you, while if that's not the case Bear becomes just a complete Chonk.
Thank you for your perspective.
I hadn't considered going deeper into DEX and using a rapier/shield for the higher AC bonuses. However, from a background/lore aspect, in my mind a barbarian doesn't use a shield, but rather a greataxe/greatsword or dual wield.
As for group composition, I had considered going Wolf instead of Bear because we were going to be Barbarian, Druid, Rogue, "caster", and Paladin. However, the Paladin is having commitment issues, haha. So I was going to lean more towards tank and the undecided "caster" switched to Bard; so it will most likely end up being Barbarian, Druid, Rogue, Bard. Based on the 4 man composition would you choose Bear or Wolf? I was thinking the Bard would do buffs, so Bear would be better?
Thanks again!
Nothing wrong with being a big 'ol great axe wielder and you absolutely want strength for that.
I'd suggest bear if you're going for reliability; it works as a solid Chonk of a frontliner.
Also pro tip for playing as a bear: getting toughness is almost worth prioritizing for your level 4 slot, since that will basically give you 4 extra HPs per level while raging (at level 4 that would push a 16 con barbarian to an average of 50 hps or 100 while raging over the 84 you'd get without it). Sure you'll lose a little bit of damage in the meantime but there is a sort of joy to being a pinata that won't bust open for the GM that going all in on HP's brings.
Thank you for the feat tip. I'll definitely consider that at level 4 instead of the ASI. Maybe I can talk our DM into a house rules feat at level 1 with all this new One D&D talk going on and get the best of both worlds. haha
I would go with the 16/16 stats. But personally a ALWAYS roll when making a character, when rolling you can get INCREDIBLE stats if you’re lucky. The lowest you could possibly get (if your using the standard roll 4 take the top 3 rolls) is 3, but if your DM is any kind of decent they’ll let you re roll that, and at the same time it maxes at 18, which means you could have a score of 20 (depending on your race) at level one. The best rolls I ever got for a character was 18 18 16 16 16 13, it was awesome. All in all you do you in the end but I think rolling is always the best option
Your post is rather off topic but whether you get to roll is the decision of the DM not the player. Yes, if you are given the choice on average rolling gives you slightly better stats but comes with the risk of rolling really poorly, if the DM then allows a re-roll then rolling gets much better stats. I would hate to be the player who rolls 14,12,11,11,9,7 who gets to play alongside your 18 18 16 16 16 13 character and for that reason as a DM I never allow rolling for stats.
So it all depends on the DM. Every DM I’ve ever played under let me decide how to get my stats, but once again it’s up to the DM. I haven’t been a DM for a long time, but I’ve already made nearly 2 dozen characters, and the lowest I’ve ever had a player roll was 7 while the average is 12-16 and almost all of them get at least one 17 or 18.
With no re-rolls
Either you have been incredibly lucky or someone is being very generous with re-rolls
I play a level 13 half-orc totem barb. We used point buy, but my starting scores were 15, 14, 14, 10, 10, 8. You get racial bonuses to str and con anyway as half-orc. I think the order of importance is str, con, dex, and the rest are basically dump stats, but play how ya like.
Be aware if you dump Wisdom, fear effects are quite frustrating on a barbarian. There's nothing worse than playing the fearless brute who turns tail and flees the battlefield, leaving their more mentally strong companions behind. Especially with the increased movement speed that barbarians get.
Good point. That hasn't happened to my barb yet, but I expect it will someday with a wis 10.