From 1st level, your god delivers bolts of inspiration to you while you are engaged in battle. When you use the Attack action, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
The problem is that the domains martial ability doesn't really work that great in combat. It's good at level 1-3, but later on it drops in usefulness.
It interferes with spiritual weapons bonus attack
It interferes with great weapon master crit/bonus action (a real war domain cleric uses a big ass maul)
It interferes with dual wielding clerics (thinking of a orc cleric wielding two axes)
Can't cast a cantrip (booming blade) and then use warpriest as a bonus action
The problem is that the domains martial ability doesn't really work that great in combat. It's good at level 1-3, but later on it drops in usefulness.
It interferes with spiritual weapons bonus attack
It interferes with great weapon master crit/bonus action (a real war domain cleric uses a big ass maul)
It interferes with dual wielding clerics (thinking of a orc cleric wielding two axes)
Can't cast a cantrip (booming blade) and then use warpriest as a bonus action
To be fair, you don't want to be using two-weapon fighting for the same reasons (so it's tough to say that it conflicts with War Priest specifically).
That said, War Priest doesn't really conflict with Great Weapon Master, as you'll only get that bonus action consistently every round if you're fighting really weak mobs where you can guarantee a kill every turn, so War Priest lets you make the extra attack on turns that you don't trigger the GWM attack.
Spiritual Weapon is fair, but at the same time using War Priest instead means you save one or more spell slots, e.g- in short encounters. It uses a separate resource so it's still useful. People also sometimes forget that Spiritual Weapon is awkward if enemies move or are spread out; as it only has a speed of 20 feet per turn. Less of an issue if you keep it near you and enemies always obligingly come to you, but worth considering.
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I have been trying to come up with a way to operate a War cleric that genuinely works in melee, and I think I might be on to something decent.
1) Booming Blade (get it by hook or by crook)
2) Spirit Shroud
3) Spiritual Weapon
I think these things together give you good potential damage per round, and the side benefits to Spirit Shroud and it's flexibility in terms of damage type make it worth concentrating on. I'm a little sad about War Priest not working with Booming Blade (come on, how stupid). I thought that *would* work, but apparently not. That being said, when you get Booming Blade's bonus and you cast Spirit Shroud, you're hitting for 2d6 (assuming a great weapon) + 1d8 thunder +1d8 Radiant/Cold/Necrotic, and your spiritual weapon is *also* affected by Spirit Shroud, so that's another 2d8 + Wisdom, potentially.
It's decent damage. Once you get divine strike, it of course gets even better, and then you can start up casting Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Shroud. 9th level, things look really nice, and they kind of stay that way throughout the rest of the game.
But yeah. War Clerics should get Extra Attack at 6th.
I agree extra attack at 6 would work well. I do have two levels of war cleric on my sharpshooter drakewarden. Against a flying target ( my drake does not have wings yet), the bonus arrow with + 10 damage really helps.
I would be happy if the bonus action attack wasn't tied to the attack action. Could do things like buff your party without losing an attack, or cast guided bolt, then run up and attack with advantage...
I tend to like war cleric better as an archery cleric. I'm not overly fond of clerics in melee due to the conc checks that go with it. Standing in the back, plucking away with a long bow though is nice. War cleric as a dip can be real nice.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
From 1st level, your god delivers bolts of inspiration to you while you are engaged in battle. When you use the Attack action, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
The problem is that the domains martial ability doesn't really work that great in combat. It's good at level 1-3, but later on it drops in usefulness.
It interferes with spiritual weapons bonus attack
It interferes with great weapon master crit/bonus action (a real war domain cleric uses a big ass maul)
It interferes with dual wielding clerics (thinking of a orc cleric wielding two axes)
Can't cast a cantrip (booming blade) and then use warpriest as a bonus action
I think that above all that, the worst thing about this skill is that it recharges in long rest. That being the case, at most you will be able to use this kind of multi attack 5 times a day. That's anedotic on any level, and it's not like when you do it you're going to save the day. You do one more attack, using your bonus action for it. Pretty "meh".
I know there are people who will discuss it with me, but for me it is one of the worst domains. I understand why they didn't give him a real multi attack, but really the subclass is crying out for it. Or, if not, better design the skill that tries to emulate it. That it does not use your bonus action and / or that it recharges in short rest.
I’m pretty sure the reason War Clerics don’t get Extra Attack at Level 6 is that WotC thought it’d be overpowered when combined with Divine Strike, even with the latter’s ”once on your turn” limitation. In light of the publication of the Tasha’s clerics, it seems rather silly.
Extra attack is a martial thing, it's /generally/ not a full caster thing. Warclerics don't /need/ extra attack; they are casters.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Extra attack is a martial thing, it's /generally/ not a full caster thing. Warclerics don't /need/ extra attack; they are casters.
Several full caster classes have means to attack more than once using an action on their turn
Bladesinger Wizards
College of Swords Bards
College of Valor Bards
Any Pact of the Blade Warlock so long as they take the Thirsting Blade invocation
I agree that the majority of caster characters wont have Extra Attack, but adding it on to a subclass for casters isn't unprecedented either. War Cleric would be a great opportunity (thematically speaking) to give that same option to Clerics
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Extra attack is a martial thing, it's /generally/ not a full caster thing. Warclerics don't /need/ extra attack; they are casters.
Several full caster classes have means to attack more than once using an action on their turn
Bladesinger Wizards
College of Swords Bards
College of Valor Bards
Any Pact of the Blade Warlock so long as they take the Thirsting Blade invocation
I agree that the majority of caster characters wont have Extra Attack, but adding it on to a subclass for casters isn't unprecedented either. War Cleric would be a great opportunity (thematically speaking) to give that same option to Clerics
Exactly... With the Bladesinger buff in Tashas there is no reason not to have war clerics have extra attack
Extra attack is a martial thing, it's /generally/ not a full caster thing. Warclerics don't /need/ extra attack; they are casters.
Several full caster classes have means to attack more than once using an action on their turn
Bladesinger Wizards
College of Swords Bards
College of Valor Bards
Any Pact of the Blade Warlock so long as they take the Thirsting Blade invocation
I agree that the majority of caster characters wont have Extra Attack, but adding it on to a subclass for casters isn't unprecedented either. War Cleric would be a great opportunity (thematically speaking) to give that same option to Clerics
That's why I said generally.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
For a melee cleric, War is stomped out by Twilight, Forge, and even Tempest.
Every domain is stomped by Twilight because it has the most broken channel divinity power of any domain without contest, on top of a domain that is already good without it.
Forge is tricky; the 1st level Forge ability (Artisan's Blessing) is more consistently useful as it gives you a boost all the time, rather than a handful of extra attacks, but I wouldn't rule out that handful of extra attacks entirely. Forge's channel divinity though is highly situational whereas War Cleric's Guided Strike is one of my favourite channel divinity powers, as there are few things worse than casting a high level spell and missing. Forge does straight up have War Cleric's avatar capstone but better (adds fire immunity), but many campaigns won't reach 17th level and the difference depends on what enemies you face (or if your character likes rolling around in firepits), and Avatar of Battle does work in the rare case you don't have any armour. The real difference between the two is the 6th level feature; fire resistance and +1 AC (which may be a total bonus of +2 with Artisan's Blessing) is really good, whereas War God's Blessing is only really enhancing something you already have, so it could really use another feature at the same level. Also worth remembering that Forge Domain doesn't get martial weapon proficiency, even though a number of its features work with them, which is actually disappointing as with their built in AC bonuses they could be a great polearm master (high AC without a shield).
Tempest is more difficult to compare; I like Wrath of the Storm but I feel like it's pretty even to War Priest depending upon how and when you use the latter (as you shouldn't compare just an extra weapon attack, you need to compare that weapon attack and anything you might stack on top of it). Destructive Wrath is a really good channel divinity, but I'd probably rate it similar to Guided Strike (can't maximise damage if you miss), though it can be fantastic when you get just the right conditions (grouped enemies you can hit with a good area spell). Thunderbolt Strike is nice but not amazing; pushing enemies can be super useful, but it's also quite situational, I feel like it's a bit like War God's Blessing and maybe should have a secondary feature to go with it. Stormborn at 17th is fun, though like other Cleric captstones it's very late; your Storm Sorcerers have been flying around since level 1 (which is why multiclassing as one can be a lot of fun, even though it's not very optimal due to the Charisma requirement).
As has already been mentioned, the simplest fix for War Cleric would be Extra Attack at 6th level, as 6th level is really War Cleric's weakest feature; not that War God's Blessing is bad (helping allies to hit with crucial attacks can be fantastic) but it's tied to the same limited resource, so it could have easily just been a part of Guided Strike. Extra Attack would turn War Priest from "just" a 2nd attack into a 3rd attack, and once you can cast Holy Weapon and similar that becomes a big deal. I'd also maybe have War Priest rest on short rest from 11th level, then maybe become unlimited at 17th to round out the capstone and have the sub-class progress to a full three attacks (sort of, since it's still costing your bonus action)? I don't think either of these changes are necessary to have fun with the sub-class, but it'd give it more of a niche as a more weapon oriented martial sub-class.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
dude remember that attacking twice uses your bonus action and it still requires that you use your action to attack as if you do you cannot use the lv 1 war priest feature.
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"War Priest
From 1st level, your god delivers bolts of inspiration to you while you are engaged in battle. When you use the Attack action, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
The problem is that the domains martial ability doesn't really work that great in combat. It's good at level 1-3, but later on it drops in usefulness.
To be fair, you don't want to be using two-weapon fighting for the same reasons (so it's tough to say that it conflicts with War Priest specifically).
That said, War Priest doesn't really conflict with Great Weapon Master, as you'll only get that bonus action consistently every round if you're fighting really weak mobs where you can guarantee a kill every turn, so War Priest lets you make the extra attack on turns that you don't trigger the GWM attack.
Spiritual Weapon is fair, but at the same time using War Priest instead means you save one or more spell slots, e.g- in short encounters. It uses a separate resource so it's still useful. People also sometimes forget that Spiritual Weapon is awkward if enemies move or are spread out; as it only has a speed of 20 feet per turn. Less of an issue if you keep it near you and enemies always obligingly come to you, but worth considering.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I have been trying to come up with a way to operate a War cleric that genuinely works in melee, and I think I might be on to something decent.
1) Booming Blade (get it by hook or by crook)
2) Spirit Shroud
3) Spiritual Weapon
I think these things together give you good potential damage per round, and the side benefits to Spirit Shroud and it's flexibility in terms of damage type make it worth concentrating on. I'm a little sad about War Priest not working with Booming Blade (come on, how stupid). I thought that *would* work, but apparently not. That being said, when you get Booming Blade's bonus and you cast Spirit Shroud, you're hitting for 2d6 (assuming a great weapon) + 1d8 thunder +1d8 Radiant/Cold/Necrotic, and your spiritual weapon is *also* affected by Spirit Shroud, so that's another 2d8 + Wisdom, potentially.
It's decent damage. Once you get divine strike, it of course gets even better, and then you can start up casting Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Shroud. 9th level, things look really nice, and they kind of stay that way throughout the rest of the game.
But yeah. War Clerics should get Extra Attack at 6th.
Nah. Clerics are already great. The one way to make the half casting classes entirely redundant is to offer the same martial prowess to full casters.
I agree extra attack at 6 would work well. I do have two levels of war cleric on my sharpshooter drakewarden. Against a flying target ( my drake does not have wings yet), the bonus arrow with + 10 damage really helps.
I would be happy if the bonus action attack wasn't tied to the attack action. Could do things like buff your party without losing an attack, or cast guided bolt, then run up and attack with advantage...
War clerics still should get extra attack at 6th level...no real reason they shouldn't.
I tend to like war cleric better as an archery cleric. I'm not overly fond of clerics in melee due to the conc checks that go with it. Standing in the back, plucking away with a long bow though is nice. War cleric as a dip can be real nice.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I think that above all that, the worst thing about this skill is that it recharges in long rest. That being the case, at most you will be able to use this kind of multi attack 5 times a day. That's anedotic on any level, and it's not like when you do it you're going to save the day. You do one more attack, using your bonus action for it. Pretty "meh".
I know there are people who will discuss it with me, but for me it is one of the worst domains. I understand why they didn't give him a real multi attack, but really the subclass is crying out for it. Or, if not, better design the skill that tries to emulate it. That it does not use your bonus action and / or that it recharges in short rest.
I’m pretty sure the reason War Clerics don’t get Extra Attack at Level 6 is that WotC thought it’d be overpowered when combined with Divine Strike, even with the latter’s ”once on your turn” limitation. In light of the publication of the Tasha’s clerics, it seems rather silly.
Extra attack is a martial thing, it's /generally/ not a full caster thing. Warclerics don't /need/ extra attack; they are casters.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Several full caster classes have means to attack more than once using an action on their turn
Bladesinger Wizards
College of Swords Bards
College of Valor Bards
Any Pact of the Blade Warlock so long as they take the Thirsting Blade invocation
I agree that the majority of caster characters wont have Extra Attack, but adding it on to a subclass for casters isn't unprecedented either. War Cleric would be a great opportunity (thematically speaking) to give that same option to Clerics
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Exactly... With the Bladesinger buff in Tashas there is no reason not to have war clerics have extra attack
For a melee cleric, War is stomped out by Twilight, Forge, and even Tempest.
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
That's why I said generally.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Every domain is stomped by Twilight because it has the most broken channel divinity power of any domain without contest, on top of a domain that is already good without it.
Forge is tricky; the 1st level Forge ability (Artisan's Blessing) is more consistently useful as it gives you a boost all the time, rather than a handful of extra attacks, but I wouldn't rule out that handful of extra attacks entirely. Forge's channel divinity though is highly situational whereas War Cleric's Guided Strike is one of my favourite channel divinity powers, as there are few things worse than casting a high level spell and missing. Forge does straight up have War Cleric's avatar capstone but better (adds fire immunity), but many campaigns won't reach 17th level and the difference depends on what enemies you face (or if your character likes rolling around in firepits), and Avatar of Battle does work in the rare case you don't have any armour. The real difference between the two is the 6th level feature; fire resistance and +1 AC (which may be a total bonus of +2 with Artisan's Blessing) is really good, whereas War God's Blessing is only really enhancing something you already have, so it could really use another feature at the same level. Also worth remembering that Forge Domain doesn't get martial weapon proficiency, even though a number of its features work with them, which is actually disappointing as with their built in AC bonuses they could be a great polearm master (high AC without a shield).
Tempest is more difficult to compare; I like Wrath of the Storm but I feel like it's pretty even to War Priest depending upon how and when you use the latter (as you shouldn't compare just an extra weapon attack, you need to compare that weapon attack and anything you might stack on top of it). Destructive Wrath is a really good channel divinity, but I'd probably rate it similar to Guided Strike (can't maximise damage if you miss), though it can be fantastic when you get just the right conditions (grouped enemies you can hit with a good area spell). Thunderbolt Strike is nice but not amazing; pushing enemies can be super useful, but it's also quite situational, I feel like it's a bit like War God's Blessing and maybe should have a secondary feature to go with it. Stormborn at 17th is fun, though like other Cleric captstones it's very late; your Storm Sorcerers have been flying around since level 1 (which is why multiclassing as one can be a lot of fun, even though it's not very optimal due to the Charisma requirement).
As has already been mentioned, the simplest fix for War Cleric would be Extra Attack at 6th level, as 6th level is really War Cleric's weakest feature; not that War God's Blessing is bad (helping allies to hit with crucial attacks can be fantastic) but it's tied to the same limited resource, so it could have easily just been a part of Guided Strike. Extra Attack would turn War Priest from "just" a 2nd attack into a 3rd attack, and once you can cast Holy Weapon and similar that becomes a big deal. I'd also maybe have War Priest rest on short rest from 11th level, then maybe become unlimited at 17th to round out the capstone and have the sub-class progress to a full three attacks (sort of, since it's still costing your bonus action)? I don't think either of these changes are necessary to have fun with the sub-class, but it'd give it more of a niche as a more weapon oriented martial sub-class.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
dude remember that attacking twice uses your bonus action and it still requires that you use your action to attack as if you do you cannot use the lv 1 war priest feature.