Warden gives Druid's proficiency with medium armor and martial weapons.
Armor & AC: The best medium armor (half plate) gives you a 15 AC + 2 (17 total) with a shield. However, the 2024 Barkskin spell also confers a 17 AC for 1 hour without concentration. That said, Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and so isn't available to Druid's until 3rd level, while the 2024 Druid will choose their Primal Order at 1st level, when they're the squishiest. Also, (stating the obvious) the armor and shield last longer than 1 hour and don't require the use of a 2nd level spell slot. IMO the medium armor proficiency is a fairly big benefit to the Druid.
Weapons: The best damage dealing weapons of the 2014 Druid were the scimitar and quarterstaff, both of which dealt 1d6 damage. That said, the 2014 Druid could combine quarterstaff melee attacks with unlimited use of the Shillelagh cantrip, which made the base weapon damage 1d8 + spellcasting bonus (i.e., +2 levels 1-4), for an average of 7 damage per attack. The Warden gets proficiency with martial weapons, and so has access to weapons such as a greatsword or maul which do 2d6, for an average of 7 damage per attack. (And you couldn't use a shield if you used a 2-handed weapon like a greatsword or maul). So, the 2024 martial weapon proficiency doesn't confer a clear benefit in terms of damage to the 2014 Druid. (One option for the Warden to slightly improve their weapon damage is to play a variant human and take the Magic Initiate feat at 1st level, then take the True Strike cantrip which adds the Warden's spellcasting proficiency bonus to their weapon attack.)
How many of you will be choosing the Warden (Primal Order) over the Magician?
What Druid sub-classes do you think work particularly well with the Warden?
Has Shillelagh changed? I thought it still added your Spellcasting ability score modifier, not your proficiency bonus, to the damage?
True Strike is perhaps worth considering for a melee Druid. You don’t have to be a Human to take Magic Initiate (Wizard). War Caster would be a useful feat to couple it with (to allow it to be used for Opportunity Attacks). I think True Strike can be used with ranged weapons too, so you could carry a longbow (perhaps letting you take a utility cantrip instead of Produce Flame or similar).
Edit: If Shillelagh still works as it did in the playtest, its damage die scale with your level, so narrow the gap with great weapons. If you’re wanting to wield a Shillelagh and shield, though, it might still be worth investing in True Strike, because I think it should stack with Shillelagh, so at level 5, you would be doing d10+d6+WIS force/radiant damage.
For damage though, you might be best going with Scimitar and Club (with Shillelagh), with either Fount of Moonlight or Conjure Minor Elementals, to try to increase the number of hits per turn. Taking the Dual Wielder feat should help you make three attacks per turn.
Edit 2: Sorry, just realised that Dual Wielder probably wouldn’t give a Druid three attacks, unless you had a way to get the Nick mastery. I think there might be another feat that allows that. You could also get it by multiclassing, but most of those choices (Fighter, Ranger) would give you the benefits of Warden anyway).
I'm playing one in our campaign and have dragon scale armor. That makes me want to take Warden if/when we convert to 2024. However, based on how I play him, magician would be the better option. So I'm not sure what I'll decide on! I think there are compelling reasons to do both.
My most general thoughts about playing a Warden is that it opens up so many cantrips and spells with a smaller range (e.g., Poison Spray, Primal Savagery, Thunderclap, Earth Tremor, Thunderwave, etc.) that are really practically impossible for a pure caster druid who cannot risk entering melee.
Second, I like the idea of playing a Warden who can enter melee and cast one of the many (new) emanation AOE spells (e.g., the Thunderclap cantrip, one of the 4th level Conjure spells) that have the same effect as Spirit Guardians for Clerics. Thunderclap is instantaneous but the 4th level conjuration spells last longer. The 2024 Conjure Minor Elementals is powerful because it scales by 2d8 for each level above 4th, i.e., until the spell ends (Concentration), any attack you make deals an extra 2d8 damage when you hit a creature in the Emanation. This damage is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). In addition, the ground in the Emanation is Difficult Terrain for your enemies. Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4, e.g., 4d8 for a 5th level spell slot, 5d8 for 6th, and so on.
As for sub-classes that compliment Wardens, here are my thoughts:
The new Circle of the Sea would work well for Wardens because at 3rd level they get Wrath of the Sea, which creates a five-foot emanation of ocean spray that surrounds you. When you first create this, you can force another creature inside the effect to make a Constitution saving throw against your Spell Save DC. If they fail, they take cold damage and (assuming they’re Large or smaller) get pushed up to 15 feet away from you.
Another decent subclass for Wardens is the Spores druid. The first two subclass features a Spores druid gets are Halo of Spores and Symbiotic Entity. For Halo of Spores, when a creature you can see moves into a space within 10 feet of you or starts its turn there, you can use your reaction to deal 1d4 necrotic damage to that creature unless it succeeds on a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. For Symbiotic Entity, you gain 4 temporary hit points for each level you have. And while this feature is active, you get to roll the Halo of Spores 1d4 damage a second time and add it to the total, and your melee weapon attacks deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to any target they hit. These benefits last for 10 minutes.
Last, the Wildfire subclass is probably the best subclass because the first feature of the Wildfire druid allows them to summon a wildfire spirt. Any creature within 10 feet of the spirit (other than you) when it appears must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw against your spell save DC or take 2d6 fire damage.
Just important to remember that while the Warden isn’t nearly as dominant in melee as a pure martial class, (1) I suppose Wardens can take a combat feat like Weapon Mastery, Fighting Initiate, Defensive Dualist, Dual Wielder, etc. to improve melee combat. And (2) Wardens are full casters.
One of the biggest reasons I like Warden is because it means Druids have access to a new playstyle. In the past, we were not-quite (but practically) limited to two roles: Caster and Shifter. If you were in melee and not in a Wild Shape, you were in danger, unless you had prioritized Dex over Wisdom to get a high-enough AC. I think the Druid of the Sea was designed around making this even stronger, and of course the Primal Strike feature also stacks on this.
Warden can give you access to Longsword, Trident, and Warhammer, which are all versatile for 1d10, but deal different types of damage, which allows you to pick up Crusher, Piercer, or Slasher for interesting combat options and the flexibility to use a shield or not, as useful in the situation. If you take a dip into a class with Weapon Mastery, or take Weapon Master, you can further stack those effects with the damage you to.
An example turn for a Sea Druid 15/Hunter Ranger 3 with Wisdom 20 might look like:
True Strike attack with a trident for 1d8 +5 (Wis) +3d6 (True Strike)+2d8 (Primal Strike)+1d8 (Colossus Slayer) + 1d6 (Hunter's Mark)
Topple Property knocks enemy Prone for advantage granted to allies on melee attacks.
Bonus Action (first turn - Hunter's Mark)
Bonus Action further turns - 5d6 (Wrath of the Sea)
On your first turn, Colossus Slayer won't apply if the target is at full health, and you'll need a bonus action to apply Hunter's Mark. That turn, on average, you will deal 30 damage with your first attack, and 15 damage with Wrath of the Sea against the same target or another one. On later turns, the damage is an average of 34 damage + 15. If we have the Piercer feat, we can also reroll poor damage dice, and get bonus damage on crits.
We can replace one or both of those actions with spells as needed, and there are non-concentration spells like Fire Shield or Druid Grove which are free from action economy and still deal damage, not to mention, we have the ability to fly while the Wrath of the Sea emanation is active and we can put it on another character to give them flight, extra damage, etc without giving up our use of it just gets silly. A good portion of this would be fairly unreasonable to try without access to armor and weapons to make the core effect of "hitting with a weapon" come into being.
Note: This is an example of what can happen every turn, not turns where we spend spell slots or other limited resources beyond Wild Shape, and we can convert unused spell slots into Wild Shape uses, so at this level we can pretty much always have this active.
Making full use of our Ranger dip:
Our Ranger Fighting Style can increase our damage by 2 per Trident attack (Dueling), or increase our AC by 1 (Defense). Having an AC of 18/19 with medium armor and a shield means we don't need to invest a lot into Dex to get our AC, and we can stack our Wisdom score right from the get-go to fuel spells and weapon attacks from level 1.
Just juicy.
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"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol "Failure means you've tried." -RB
Warden can also be useful for Circle of the Moon druids.
You won't always be starting a fight Wild Shaped, especially if you want to drop a non-Circle spell. The extra AC will still benefit you if you get attacked before Wild Shaping.
If you take the True Strike cantrip, via Sage, Human with Magic Initiate (Wizard) or High Elf you can combine it with Shillelagh to dual wield. As pointed out below you can't combine true strike and dual wield though if you have a 14 dex, Shillelagh plus Scimitar can be used together with your bonus action.
Grab a Scimitar and use True Strike Wis to hit/damage and offhand the Shillelagh club (light weapon) for 1d8 bonus action attack. Just make sure to keep Shillelagh up while exploring.
You can use a Maul but unless you have Str 13 it will be at disadvantage. Same for a heavy crossbow though you would need a Dex of 13 for that. Either can be used with True Strike.
it depends on the style of character I am building. For example, if I am trying to build a "shaman" and use the druid chassis to do so, I am 100% taking warden. if I am building something more thematically a classic druid, I am probably taking magician.
You can't DW with True Strike. You're not taking the attack action, you're using the magic action to cast a spell, which includes a melee attack.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I think you could argue using Warden for just about any Druid subclass. The Dreams Druid is a support character so making it not be so squishy while it heals and controls the battle field isn't a bad plan. Better than continually using your action for Disengage or Dodge when the enemies realize you're the reason they can't get a handle on the battle. One thing to remember about the Magician and the Druid proficiency with simple weapons is that if they don't say "finesse" then you are hitting with strength modifiers which is typically a druid Dump stat (I'm thinking of the Druid getting a Sickle in the starting equipment). You're almost better starting out with the quarterstaff/wooden staff and Shillelagh and trying to just stay away from Melee altogether and using Starry Wisp/Thorn Whip for attacks from a distance. Might keep a couple daggers on hand since they're cheap and "finesse" weapons using your Dexterity.
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The Otherworldly Geek
I have a collection of Elven and Fey Druid Characters that I play. Some creepy and some not so creepy, but all FUN!
Warden gives Druid's proficiency with medium armor and martial weapons.
Armor & AC: The best medium armor (half plate) gives you a 15 AC + 2 (17 total) with a shield. However, the 2024 Barkskin spell also confers a 17 AC for 1 hour without concentration. That said, Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and so isn't available to Druid's until 3rd level, while the 2024 Druid will choose their Primal Order at 1st level, when they're the squishiest. Also, (stating the obvious) the armor and shield last longer than 1 hour and don't require the use of a 2nd level spell slot. IMO the medium armor proficiency is a fairly big benefit to the Druid.
Weapons: The best damage dealing weapons of the 2014 Druid were the scimitar and quarterstaff, both of which dealt 1d6 damage. That said, the 2014 Druid could combine quarterstaff melee attacks with unlimited use of the Shillelagh cantrip, which made the base weapon damage 1d8 + spellcasting bonus (i.e., +2 levels 1-4), for an average of 7 damage per attack. The Warden gets proficiency with martial weapons, and so has access to weapons such as a greatsword or maul which do 2d6, for an average of 7 damage per attack. (And you couldn't use a shield if you used a 2-handed weapon like a greatsword or maul). So, the 2024 martial weapon proficiency doesn't confer a clear benefit in terms of damage to the 2014 Druid. (One option for the Warden to slightly improve their weapon damage is to play a variant human and take the Magic Initiate feat at 1st level, then take the True Strike cantrip which adds the Warden's spellcasting proficiency bonus to their weapon attack.)
How many of you will be choosing the Warden (Primal Order) over the Magician?
What Druid sub-classes do you think work particularly well with the Warden?
'
On the armor side generally if you are going medium armor you get your dex to 14, so without a shield its 17AC, and 19 with a shield, and then add in magic armor and by mid levels your AC is 20+. The weapon side I agree with, just turn your stick into a lethal weapon that attacks with your wisdom. But rdoes magician really give much better, 1 cantrip and your are good at Arcana or/and? Nature. It feels more fitting to be good at nature checks so its thematic at least, but a lot of Ac seems more mechanically solid than that imo/
On the armor side if you are not moon bark skin gets some extra play when you are scouting things out as a rat or whatever and still rock that 17 AC. But in large part i think the medium armor is better.
That being said I don't think either is too big of a swing, so whatever fits your character will be fine. The math in 5e isn't so tight that every +1 matters in the grand scheme of things.
Any ideas for a changeling druid. What they can and can't do, best sub class, and spells
I made a changeling Dreams Druid and took Insight and Persuasion for the Changeling Instincts. STR 8, DEX 14, CON 15, INT 12, WIS 15, CHA 10. I used the Core Druid Traits Perception and Religion and with the Hermit background added Investigation and the Navigator's Kit or Thieves Tools. Added 1 to CON and 2 to WIS. Get Studded Leather armor then a Chain Shirt as quick as you can (AC 17 and no disadvantage to stealth) if you take the Warden Primal Order (Magician Primal Order just get the Studded Leather Armor). I dropped the Sickle as it is a Strength based weapon and got a Dagger instead. You'll likely use the Staff with Shillelagh if you do any melee hitting (I advise you try to stay out of melee with Dreams Druid though).
They can shapechange as an action so I use it frequently to talk to enemies and try to get them to do things they may not otherwise do (persuasion). Once you wildshape you can't use the shapechange to change your shape. 2024 rules state pretty clearly that you have class features but not species specific ones in wildshape. "Your game statistics are replaced by the Beast’s stat block, but you retain your creature type; HP; HP Dice; Int., Wis., and Cha. scores; class features; languages; and feats."
Best spells early on are the Shillelagh, Guidance and Starry Wisp cantrips, add Thornwhip later to use with Spike Growth. Level 1 spells: Detect Magic, Entangle, Fairy Fire, Healing Word, Absorb Elements, and Goodberry. You can replace Healing Word with Cure Wounds if you want to use the familiar to take the spell to someone on the battlefield. Level 2 spells: Pass without a trace, Spike Growth, Barkskin (if you took the Magician primal order), Summon Beast, Darkvision (if you know you'll be dungeon crawling), Aid is always prepared now. Level 3 spells: Dispel Magic, Aura of Vitality, Plant Growth, Revivify (if you have gold to spare). I'm not as big a fan of Conjure Animals in 2024 since it has a DEX save so use your concentration elsewhere. Many spells are better in certain circumstances than others depending on your campaign and where/what you're coming across.
I think the Warden is a good option for Circle of the Moon Druids as well. Wild Resurgence presents us with additional uses of Wild Shape and refreshing the temporary hit points is stronger than a Cure Wounds (1st). Starting outside Wild Shape will open up additional spell options while letting us Cast, WIld Shape and move on round 1. Spell like Conjure Minor Elemental, Summon Beast, Summon Fey, Conjure Woodland Beings as well as control options like Sleet Storm, Wall of Stone or Entangle can also be used while still being able to maintain after Wild Shaping.
Having the extra protection before you get into Wild Shape can prevent unnecessary damage, as well as let us use other sources of THP.
It has its uses but 1 round of extra defense is not particularly impressive imo. Given enough encounters where you can't wild shape anymore it would have some extra effect with them.
Sorry to bring this back from page 2, but one thing I'm toying with is the idea of a Warden Druid picking up Magic Initiate and going Circle of Land: medium armor + shields, swords that can be used with the Wisdom modifier through True Strike, and the ability to have healing, utility, and things like Fireball and Lightning Bolt. Theme it as an FF-style Red Mage, and it might even be more effective in that role than a Bard.
I love this. So, so much. Druid of the Land doesn’t rely on its Wildshape so much, especially if you’re already in melee, so you could definitely dip 1 level into fighter to get weapon masteries and a fighting style, allowing you to get the benefits of the weapon mastery feat. Or you could dip into Ranger or rogue for some broader utility and damage options. But staying pure Druid maintains your spell progress, so there’s definitely options.
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"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol "Failure means you've tried." -RB
Going the route of using True Strike for your Warden is great, especially at early levels. At level 5 you get access to Conjure Animals which is a better for melee than True Strike, but you will probably still need to rely on True Strike because Conjure Animals is a limited resource and True Strike is unlimited. Agree with @Rory that taking just 1 level in fighter and giving you access to mastery in 3 weapons and a fighting style (and second wind!) would really pay off. Combining Shillelagh with a Club or Quarterstaff for bludgeoning damage when needed, as well as slowing, or toppling is valuable.
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Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
what about metamagic adept and the extend on barksin, now its 1 sorc point and 24 hour, you can barksin yourself and an ally that is aklso squishy for 24 hour, and its no concentration. with that combo i would see more power in magician, but it does cost a feat.
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Warden gives Druid's proficiency with medium armor and martial weapons.
Armor & AC: The best medium armor (half plate) gives you a 15 AC + 2 (17 total) with a shield. However, the 2024 Barkskin spell also confers a 17 AC for 1 hour without concentration. That said, Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and so isn't available to Druid's until 3rd level, while the 2024 Druid will choose their Primal Order at 1st level, when they're the squishiest. Also, (stating the obvious) the armor and shield last longer than 1 hour and don't require the use of a 2nd level spell slot. IMO the medium armor proficiency is a fairly big benefit to the Druid.
Weapons: The best damage dealing weapons of the 2014 Druid were the scimitar and quarterstaff, both of which dealt 1d6 damage. That said, the 2014 Druid could combine quarterstaff melee attacks with unlimited use of the Shillelagh cantrip, which made the base weapon damage 1d8 + spellcasting bonus (i.e., +2 levels 1-4), for an average of 7 damage per attack. The Warden gets proficiency with martial weapons, and so has access to weapons such as a greatsword or maul which do 2d6, for an average of 7 damage per attack. (And you couldn't use a shield if you used a 2-handed weapon like a greatsword or maul). So, the 2024 martial weapon proficiency doesn't confer a clear benefit in terms of damage to the 2014 Druid. (One option for the Warden to slightly improve their weapon damage is to play a variant human and take the Magic Initiate feat at 1st level, then take the True Strike cantrip which adds the Warden's spellcasting proficiency bonus to their weapon attack.)
How many of you will be choosing the Warden (Primal Order) over the Magician?
What Druid sub-classes do you think work particularly well with the Warden?
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Has Shillelagh changed? I thought it still added your Spellcasting ability score modifier, not your proficiency bonus, to the damage?
True Strike is perhaps worth considering for a melee Druid. You don’t have to be a Human to take Magic Initiate (Wizard). War Caster would be a useful feat to couple it with (to allow it to be used for Opportunity Attacks). I think True Strike can be used with ranged weapons too, so you could carry a longbow (perhaps letting you take a utility cantrip instead of Produce Flame or similar).
Edit: If Shillelagh still works as it did in the playtest, its damage die scale with your level, so narrow the gap with great weapons. If you’re wanting to wield a Shillelagh and shield, though, it might still be worth investing in True Strike, because I think it should stack with Shillelagh, so at level 5, you would be doing d10+d6+WIS force/radiant damage.
For damage though, you might be best going with Scimitar and Club (with Shillelagh), with either Fount of Moonlight or Conjure Minor Elementals, to try to increase the number of hits per turn. Taking the Dual Wielder feat should help you make three attacks per turn.
Edit 2: Sorry, just realised that Dual Wielder probably wouldn’t give a Druid three attacks, unless you had a way to get the Nick mastery. I think there might be another feat that allows that. You could also get it by multiclassing, but most of those choices (Fighter, Ranger) would give you the benefits of Warden anyway).
I'm playing one in our campaign and have dragon scale armor. That makes me want to take Warden if/when we convert to 2024. However, based on how I play him, magician would be the better option. So I'm not sure what I'll decide on! I think there are compelling reasons to do both.
My most general thoughts about playing a Warden is that it opens up so many cantrips and spells with a smaller range (e.g., Poison Spray, Primal Savagery, Thunderclap, Earth Tremor, Thunderwave, etc.) that are really practically impossible for a pure caster druid who cannot risk entering melee.
Second, I like the idea of playing a Warden who can enter melee and cast one of the many (new) emanation AOE spells (e.g., the Thunderclap cantrip, one of the 4th level Conjure spells) that have the same effect as Spirit Guardians for Clerics. Thunderclap is instantaneous but the 4th level conjuration spells last longer. The 2024 Conjure Minor Elementals is powerful because it scales by 2d8 for each level above 4th, i.e., until the spell ends (Concentration), any attack you make deals an extra 2d8 damage when you hit a creature in the Emanation. This damage is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). In addition, the ground in the Emanation is Difficult Terrain for your enemies. Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4, e.g., 4d8 for a 5th level spell slot, 5d8 for 6th, and so on.
As for sub-classes that compliment Wardens, here are my thoughts:
Just important to remember that while the Warden isn’t nearly as dominant in melee as a pure martial class, (1) I suppose Wardens can take a combat feat like Weapon Mastery, Fighting Initiate, Defensive Dualist, Dual Wielder, etc. to improve melee combat. And (2) Wardens are full casters.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
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InsiderOne of the biggest reasons I like Warden is because it means Druids have access to a new playstyle. In the past, we were not-quite (but practically) limited to two roles: Caster and Shifter. If you were in melee and not in a Wild Shape, you were in danger, unless you had prioritized Dex over Wisdom to get a high-enough AC. I think the Druid of the Sea was designed around making this even stronger, and of course the Primal Strike feature also stacks on this.
Warden can give you access to Longsword, Trident, and Warhammer, which are all versatile for 1d10, but deal different types of damage, which allows you to pick up Crusher, Piercer, or Slasher for interesting combat options and the flexibility to use a shield or not, as useful in the situation. If you take a dip into a class with Weapon Mastery, or take Weapon Master, you can further stack those effects with the damage you to.
An example turn for a Sea Druid 15/Hunter Ranger 3 with Wisdom 20 might look like:
On your first turn, Colossus Slayer won't apply if the target is at full health, and you'll need a bonus action to apply Hunter's Mark. That turn, on average, you will deal 30 damage with your first attack, and 15 damage with Wrath of the Sea against the same target or another one. On later turns, the damage is an average of 34 damage + 15. If we have the Piercer feat, we can also reroll poor damage dice, and get bonus damage on crits.
We can replace one or both of those actions with spells as needed, and there are non-concentration spells like Fire Shield or Druid Grove which are free from action economy and still deal damage, not to mention, we have the ability to fly while the Wrath of the Sea emanation is active and we can put it on another character to give them flight, extra damage, etc without giving up our use of it just gets silly. A good portion of this would be fairly unreasonable to try without access to armor and weapons to make the core effect of "hitting with a weapon" come into being.
Note: This is an example of what can happen every turn, not turns where we spend spell slots or other limited resources beyond Wild Shape, and we can convert unused spell slots into Wild Shape uses, so at this level we can pretty much always have this active.
Making full use of our Ranger dip:
Our Ranger Fighting Style can increase our damage by 2 per Trident attack (Dueling), or increase our AC by 1 (Defense). Having an AC of 18/19 with medium armor and a shield means we don't need to invest a lot into Dex to get our AC, and we can stack our Wisdom score right from the get-go to fuel spells and weapon attacks from level 1.
Just juicy.
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol
"Failure means you've tried." -RB
Warden can also be useful for Circle of the Moon druids.
You won't always be starting a fight Wild Shaped, especially if you want to drop a non-Circle spell. The extra AC will still benefit you if you get attacked before Wild Shaping.
If you take the True Strike cantrip, via Sage, Human with Magic Initiate (Wizard) or High Elf you can combine it with Shillelagh to dual wield. As pointed out below you can't combine true strike and dual wield though if you have a 14 dex, Shillelagh plus Scimitar can be used together with your bonus action.
Grab a Scimitar and use True Strike Wis to hit/damage and offhand the Shillelagh club (light weapon) for 1d8 bonus action attack. Just make sure to keep Shillelagh up while exploring.
You can use a Maul but unless you have Str 13 it will be at disadvantage. Same for a heavy crossbow though you would need a Dex of 13 for that. Either can be used with True Strike.
it depends on the style of character I am building. For example, if I am trying to build a "shaman" and use the druid chassis to do so, I am 100% taking warden. if I am building something more thematically a classic druid, I am probably taking magician.
You can't DW with True Strike. You're not taking the attack action, you're using the magic action to cast a spell, which includes a melee attack.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I say no metal armour = no half-plate.
No metal armor is no longer a thing.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I think you could argue using Warden for just about any Druid subclass. The Dreams Druid is a support character so making it not be so squishy while it heals and controls the battle field isn't a bad plan. Better than continually using your action for Disengage or Dodge when the enemies realize you're the reason they can't get a handle on the battle. One thing to remember about the Magician and the Druid proficiency with simple weapons is that if they don't say "finesse" then you are hitting with strength modifiers which is typically a druid Dump stat (I'm thinking of the Druid getting a Sickle in the starting equipment). You're almost better starting out with the quarterstaff/wooden staff and Shillelagh and trying to just stay away from Melee altogether and using Starry Wisp/Thorn Whip for attacks from a distance. Might keep a couple daggers on hand since they're cheap and "finesse" weapons using your Dexterity.
The Otherworldly Geek
I have a collection of Elven and Fey Druid Characters that I play. Some creepy and some not so creepy, but all FUN!
Good news is that because of the huge buff to Barkskin, you can now play a Magician Druid and not be as squishy as Druids have been in the past.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Any ideas for a changeling druid. What they can and can't do, best sub class, and spells
'
On the armor side generally if you are going medium armor you get your dex to 14, so without a shield its 17AC, and 19 with a shield, and then add in magic armor and by mid levels your AC is 20+. The weapon side I agree with, just turn your stick into a lethal weapon that attacks with your wisdom. But rdoes magician really give much better, 1 cantrip and your are good at Arcana or/and? Nature. It feels more fitting to be good at nature checks so its thematic at least, but a lot of Ac seems more mechanically solid than that imo/
On the armor side if you are not moon bark skin gets some extra play when you are scouting things out as a rat or whatever and still rock that 17 AC. But in large part i think the medium armor is better.
That being said I don't think either is too big of a swing, so whatever fits your character will be fine. The math in 5e isn't so tight that every +1 matters in the grand scheme of things.
I made a changeling Dreams Druid and took Insight and Persuasion for the Changeling Instincts. STR 8, DEX 14, CON 15, INT 12, WIS 15, CHA 10. I used the Core Druid Traits Perception and Religion and with the Hermit background added Investigation and the Navigator's Kit or Thieves Tools. Added 1 to CON and 2 to WIS. Get Studded Leather armor then a Chain Shirt as quick as you can (AC 17 and no disadvantage to stealth) if you take the Warden Primal Order (Magician Primal Order just get the Studded Leather Armor). I dropped the Sickle as it is a Strength based weapon and got a Dagger instead. You'll likely use the Staff with Shillelagh if you do any melee hitting (I advise you try to stay out of melee with Dreams Druid though).
They can shapechange as an action so I use it frequently to talk to enemies and try to get them to do things they may not otherwise do (persuasion). Once you wildshape you can't use the shapechange to change your shape. 2024 rules state pretty clearly that you have class features but not species specific ones in wildshape. "Your game statistics are replaced by the Beast’s stat block, but you retain your creature type; HP; HP Dice; Int., Wis., and Cha. scores; class features; languages; and feats."
Best spells early on are the Shillelagh, Guidance and Starry Wisp cantrips, add Thornwhip later to use with Spike Growth. Level 1 spells: Detect Magic, Entangle, Fairy Fire, Healing Word, Absorb Elements, and Goodberry. You can replace Healing Word with Cure Wounds if you want to use the familiar to take the spell to someone on the battlefield. Level 2 spells: Pass without a trace, Spike Growth, Barkskin (if you took the Magician primal order), Summon Beast, Darkvision (if you know you'll be dungeon crawling), Aid is always prepared now. Level 3 spells: Dispel Magic, Aura of Vitality, Plant Growth, Revivify (if you have gold to spare). I'm not as big a fan of Conjure Animals in 2024 since it has a DEX save so use your concentration elsewhere. Many spells are better in certain circumstances than others depending on your campaign and where/what you're coming across.
The Otherworldly Geek
I have a collection of Elven and Fey Druid Characters that I play. Some creepy and some not so creepy, but all FUN!
I think the Warden is a good option for Circle of the Moon Druids as well. Wild Resurgence presents us with additional uses of Wild Shape and refreshing the temporary hit points is stronger than a Cure Wounds (1st). Starting outside Wild Shape will open up additional spell options while letting us Cast, WIld Shape and move on round 1. Spell like Conjure Minor Elemental, Summon Beast, Summon Fey, Conjure Woodland Beings as well as control options like Sleet Storm, Wall of Stone or Entangle can also be used while still being able to maintain after Wild Shaping.
Having the extra protection before you get into Wild Shape can prevent unnecessary damage, as well as let us use other sources of THP.
It has its uses but 1 round of extra defense is not particularly impressive imo. Given enough encounters where you can't wild shape anymore it would have some extra effect with them.
Sorry to bring this back from page 2, but one thing I'm toying with is the idea of a Warden Druid picking up Magic Initiate and going Circle of Land: medium armor + shields, swords that can be used with the Wisdom modifier through True Strike, and the ability to have healing, utility, and things like Fireball and Lightning Bolt. Theme it as an FF-style Red Mage, and it might even be more effective in that role than a Bard.
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InsiderI love this. So, so much. Druid of the Land doesn’t rely on its Wildshape so much, especially if you’re already in melee, so you could definitely dip 1 level into fighter to get weapon masteries and a fighting style, allowing you to get the benefits of the weapon mastery feat. Or you could dip into Ranger or rogue for some broader utility and damage options. But staying pure Druid maintains your spell progress, so there’s definitely options.
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol
"Failure means you've tried." -RB
Going the route of using True Strike for your Warden is great, especially at early levels. At level 5 you get access to Conjure Animals which is a better for melee than True Strike, but you will probably still need to rely on True Strike because Conjure Animals is a limited resource and True Strike is unlimited. Agree with @Rory that taking just 1 level in fighter and giving you access to mastery in 3 weapons and a fighting style (and second wind!) would really pay off. Combining Shillelagh with a Club or Quarterstaff for bludgeoning damage when needed, as well as slowing, or toppling is valuable.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
what about metamagic adept and the extend on barksin, now its 1 sorc point and 24 hour, you can barksin yourself and an ally that is aklso squishy for 24 hour, and its no concentration. with that combo i would see more power in magician, but it does cost a feat.