If you cast Darkvision or Invisibility on yourself, then used Wildform to change shape, would the Darkvision and Invisibility transfer?
The books mention Darkvision not transferring but that is worded "However, you can't use any of your special senses" and I wouldn't class a spell induced sense as mine, also I am changing form not becoming a different creature to that I touched. So I am tempted to say they would both transfer.
Has there been an actual ruling on this and if not what are peoples thought
I would say Darkvision should carry over because it is not an ability that you naturally possessed before you wild shaped but a magical effect granted to you by a spell. Invisibility however is a little more iffy for me. RAW it should transfer since you are not attacking or casting a spell. But I would argue that a Wild Shape should constitute a spell cast because a LOT of magical shit happens when Wild Shape is used. However ultimately it all comes down to what your DM decides.
Darkvision the racial or natural ability caused by your normal racial or natural eyes does not switch into your Wildshape forms. Darkvision given you you by the spell that your concentrating on would still affect you after you change shape.
Invisibility that your concentrating on or perhaps more likely another is concentrating on that is affecting you will still make you invisible after you wildshape.
This works because these things are not natural abilities based upon your form or equipment that you are wearing that stops functioning while you are in a form that cannot use them. These are continued spell effects that just happening to be affecting you as the target so as long as their concentration or other requirements to function do so they will function on you.
Darkvision the racial or natural ability caused by your normal racial or natural eyes does not switch into your Wildshape forms. Darkvision given you you by the spell that your concentrating on would still affect you after you change shape.
Invisibility that your concentrating on or perhaps more likely another is concentrating on that is affecting you will still make you invisible after you wildshape.
This works because these things are not natural abilities based upon your form or equipment that you are wearing that stops functioning while you are in a form that cannot use them. These are continued spell effects that just happening to be affecting you as the target so as long as their concentration or other requirements to function do so they will function on you.
Yea I totally agree that RAW it totally works for invisibility. My opinion and its only that my opinion, is that since invisibility is broken by the casting of a spell. My theory is the magic energy of said spell interrupts and dispels the effects of the invisibility. Now one would imagine changing your actual shape would require a decent amount of magical energy hence also disrupting the magic that holds the invisibility together.
Once again this is only my opinion and I am totally happy with invisibility transferring over. I am only giving my opinion to promote a discussion because I find this topic interesting.
It's not a magical energy thing when you use Wildshape. It's a supernatural thing... Basically natural but more... when you wildshape (Closer to Lycanthropy than Polymorph basically). This is why it cannot simply be dispelled and it works when you are in an anti-magic zone and all of that. There is no magic in it so Invisibility does not break.
Also not all forms of Invisibility actually work in the same way as the Invisibility spell. There are various forms of it that have various conditions for which it is broken or not broken and there are some that even function purely on an ammount of time passing or even basically indefinitely as long as you continue to take a certain kind of action or be in a certain kind of environment for it to function. Assuming you don't willingly dismiss it. For it's seeming simplicity and the way most people interact with it being the second level spell. Invisibility is actually a rather nuanced and variable affect based on a variety of factors.
Fair point on wild shape not being dispellable and workable in anti-magic zones, however I would argue that supernatural beings are very much magical in their very essence. When you break it down what makes some supernatural beings well supernatural? In many cases its because they are from the bloodline of magical beings or in other cases they are afflicted with a magical curse of some sort.
But back to the discussion at hand. Wild Shape by its very description states it is a magical effect:
Wild Shape
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.
Fair point on wild shape not being dispellable and workable in anti-magic zones, however I would argue that supernatural beings are very much magical in their very essence. When you break it down what makes some supernatural beings well supernatural? In many cases its because they are from the bloodline of magical beings or in other cases they are afflicted with a magical curse of some sort.
Lycanthropy isn't a magical curse in D&D and hasn't really been for a long time. It's more of a potentially transmittable disease. But there are many lycanthropes that are actually born lycanthropes and not ones that contracted the disease and this has a lot of affects on them like a great deal more control. So there is no real magical being or the like to do with it anymore.
And many other suprnatural abilities that are in the game actually have anything to do with ones bloodline or the like. A few Racials perhaps has something to do with your species. But the reality is that the Bulk Supernatural Abilities are actually class abilities that often have little to do with magic. In older Editions there was a much deeper distinction between the two that has gotten watered down by 5e's simplicity. This has caused what is some questionable wording to some things and turning other things into spells instead of things that mimic affects similar to spells (Or more accurately spells that mimic those natural abilities in most cases). Wildshape is one of those abilities that is affected by crossing that line by being called magical but it's not actually affected by anything that magical affects and things are affected by. Like the previously mentioned Dispelling and Anti-magic zones.
When I was talking bloodlines and curses I was more thinking about tieflings, but yea I do agree with most of what you are saying. Some of the lore in 5e is a little too diluted for my taste.
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If you cast Darkvision or Invisibility on yourself, then used Wildform to change shape, would the Darkvision and Invisibility transfer?
The books mention Darkvision not transferring but that is worded "However, you can't use any of your special senses" and I wouldn't class a spell induced sense as mine, also I am changing form not becoming a different creature to that I touched. So I am tempted to say they would both transfer.
Has there been an actual ruling on this and if not what are peoples thought
Thanks Dale
Dum Vivimus vivamus
I would say Darkvision should carry over because it is not an ability that you naturally possessed before you wild shaped but a magical effect granted to you by a spell. Invisibility however is a little more iffy for me. RAW it should transfer since you are not attacking or casting a spell. But I would argue that a Wild Shape should constitute a spell cast because a LOT of magical shit happens when Wild Shape is used. However ultimately it all comes down to what your DM decides.
Darkvision the racial or natural ability caused by your normal racial or natural eyes does not switch into your Wildshape forms. Darkvision given you you by the spell that your concentrating on would still affect you after you change shape.
Invisibility that your concentrating on or perhaps more likely another is concentrating on that is affecting you will still make you invisible after you wildshape.
This works because these things are not natural abilities based upon your form or equipment that you are wearing that stops functioning while you are in a form that cannot use them. These are continued spell effects that just happening to be affecting you as the target so as long as their concentration or other requirements to function do so they will function on you.
Yea I totally agree that RAW it totally works for invisibility. My opinion and its only that my opinion, is that since invisibility is broken by the casting of a spell. My theory is the magic energy of said spell interrupts and dispels the effects of the invisibility. Now one would imagine changing your actual shape would require a decent amount of magical energy hence also disrupting the magic that holds the invisibility together.
Once again this is only my opinion and I am totally happy with invisibility transferring over. I am only giving my opinion to promote a discussion because I find this topic interesting.
It's not a magical energy thing when you use Wildshape. It's a supernatural thing... Basically natural but more... when you wildshape (Closer to Lycanthropy than Polymorph basically). This is why it cannot simply be dispelled and it works when you are in an anti-magic zone and all of that. There is no magic in it so Invisibility does not break.
Also not all forms of Invisibility actually work in the same way as the Invisibility spell. There are various forms of it that have various conditions for which it is broken or not broken and there are some that even function purely on an ammount of time passing or even basically indefinitely as long as you continue to take a certain kind of action or be in a certain kind of environment for it to function. Assuming you don't willingly dismiss it. For it's seeming simplicity and the way most people interact with it being the second level spell. Invisibility is actually a rather nuanced and variable affect based on a variety of factors.
Fair point on wild shape not being dispellable and workable in anti-magic zones, however I would argue that supernatural beings are very much magical in their very essence. When you break it down what makes some supernatural beings well supernatural? In many cases its because they are from the bloodline of magical beings or in other cases they are afflicted with a magical curse of some sort.
But back to the discussion at hand. Wild Shape by its very description states it is a magical effect:
Wild Shape
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.
I am really enjoying this polite discussion.
Lycanthropy isn't a magical curse in D&D and hasn't really been for a long time. It's more of a potentially transmittable disease. But there are many lycanthropes that are actually born lycanthropes and not ones that contracted the disease and this has a lot of affects on them like a great deal more control. So there is no real magical being or the like to do with it anymore.
And many other suprnatural abilities that are in the game actually have anything to do with ones bloodline or the like. A few Racials perhaps has something to do with your species. But the reality is that the Bulk Supernatural Abilities are actually class abilities that often have little to do with magic. In older Editions there was a much deeper distinction between the two that has gotten watered down by 5e's simplicity. This has caused what is some questionable wording to some things and turning other things into spells instead of things that mimic affects similar to spells (Or more accurately spells that mimic those natural abilities in most cases). Wildshape is one of those abilities that is affected by crossing that line by being called magical but it's not actually affected by anything that magical affects and things are affected by. Like the previously mentioned Dispelling and Anti-magic zones.
When I was talking bloodlines and curses I was more thinking about tieflings, but yea I do agree with most of what you are saying. Some of the lore in 5e is a little too diluted for my taste.