Eldritch knight. Elf, eladrin subrace. Gives access to a bonus action teleport that is basically, but isn’t a spell. This allows the Knight to teleport and preserve the action for spellcasting if necessary, but will likely still use attack action. The teleport regens on a short rest. Choose the fall variant for the ability to save Allie’s if necessary and to bypass Charisma based effects.
take fogcloud as a spell and blind fighting for advantage.
level 4 feat investment, telekinetic. This allows the fighter to potentially bonus action shove a creature into an ignoring spell effect. Is also a half feat to round up intelligence. Adds or improves magehand.
level 6, elven accuracy.
level 7, switch out w/e free floating level 1 spell your have for shadow blade.
dont multiclass, go to level 20.
this set up rivals and beats most great weapon fighter and sharpshooter builds in DPR with significantly less feat investment. The elven accuracy is amazing when combined with fog cloud or shadowblade and blindsight since you don’t suffer any accuracy loss. This means it’s much more reliable against creatures with high AC, which is where the damage needs to actually be done.
The OP is already a level 6 champion, so this ship has sailed.
Eldritch knight. Elf, eladrin subrace. Gives access to a bonus action teleport that is basically, but isn’t a spell. This allows the Knight to teleport and preserve the action for spellcasting if necessary, but will likely still use attack action. The teleport regens on a short rest. Choose the fall variant for the ability to save Allie’s if necessary and to bypass Charisma based effects.
take fogcloud as a spell and blind fighting for advantage.
level 4 feat investment, telekinetic. This allows the fighter to potentially bonus action shove a creature into an ignoring spell effect. Is also a half feat to round up intelligence. Adds or improves magehand.
level 6, elven accuracy.
level 7, switch out w/e free floating level 1 spell your have for shadow blade.
dont multiclass, go to level 20.
this set up rivals and beats most great weapon fighter and sharpshooter builds in DPR with significantly less feat investment. The elven accuracy is amazing when combined with fog cloud or shadowblade and blindsight since you don’t suffer any accuracy loss. This means it’s much more reliable against creatures with high AC, which is where the damage needs to actually be done.
The OP is already a level 6 champion, so this ship has sailed.
That’s what I get for not reading. Looking at the stats that we’re posted, and the aspirations to be some sort of tank, I think barbarian would be a good fit.
the stats are good enough with dexterity and constitution that the AC wouldn’t drop very much, or any at all with unarmored defense.
id say ancestral guardian dip would work very well. There’s no range limit on the imposition of disadvantage vs the first target creature, so in a pinch a bow could be used. The feature granting disadvantage and resistance actually makes the rest of the party tankier than the barbarian. 3 uses of rage could go a long way.
Uh, level 6 champion probably would go barbarian 2 then rest Fighter if I wanted to optimize. If your not making it to level 20 then I'd probably go barbarian 4, but if so then Survivor is probably the best thing Champion has going for it.
Even if you don't want to optimize you don't really have a whole lot of options for multiclassing, all spellcastors & half spellcastors are a no with those stats, so your only choies are I think Barbarian, or Rogue. Barbarian being a better pick, although if you really wanted to you STR rogues exists but those are mainly for grappling builds and idk if that's the direction you want to go in.
Straight Fighter is always a good option too. Level 11 grants a third attack which is nice, and then you get feats for the next 6 levels so not too bad. Bit of a shame Fighter only gets their next damage bump after 11 at level 20 (so 9 levels of the same damage, no enhanced crit range does not count), but straight Fighter is still a solid option. Most campaigns I feel probably don't pass level 11 anyways.
Fighter Champ and Rogue Swashbuckler would work rather well for you. Specifically, Fighter Champion lv 11 / Rogue Swashbuckler lv 9. <Focus on getting Rogue to lv 5 first before switching back and forth.
NOTE: You also should also consider whether you want 5d6 damage or a extra feat or ability score improvement. <This is due to the fact that Level 8 Rogue will only get you 4d6 sneak attack, but you will gain a open feat slot from a level 12 fighter. Alternatively, you lose out on the feat but pickup the Rogue's level 9 charisma-focused Panache feature. That is on the basis that your character makes it to level 20 anyways, so it might not really matter to you much.
Points of interest:
Fighter: Action Surge (only 1 but still a clutch feature), Indomitable (reroll a single failed save), Second Wind (for a single emergency heal), Remarkable Athlete (Meh...), Extra Attack (< obviously, why else did you pick this class?), and finally Improved Critical (19-20 gets ya a crit).
Rogue: Expertise in 4 skills is a bonus...
Sneak Attack adds 3d6 to every attack round you make with this build... but you will need to use a finesse weapon. I'd personally go with a Rapier and duel wield two of them for a 4th attack but that's entirely optional if you prefer a shield for more AC.
Cunning Action allows you to use a bonus action to run towards, away, or hide from enemies. (NOTE: you don't need to be doing much hiding with this build).
Fancy Footwork (plus extra attacks) means that you can effectively hit multiple targets and then slip away without them getting opportunity attacks against you. Great combo move with cunning action to get in and then get out of melee combat.
Uncanny Dodge and Evasion is a massive boost to survival as it helps you to limit just how much damage you take.
The best and most important part of this build however is the Rakish Audacity:
Starting at 3rd level, your confidence propels you into battle. You can give yourself a bonus to your initiative rolls equal to your Charisma modifier. <not gonna help ya much there but that's ok.
(This here however>) You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; you don’t need advantage on the attack roll to use your Sneak Attack against a creature if you are within 5 feet of it, no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. All the other rules for Sneak Attack still apply to you.
Basically, you can add the 3d6 damage to any attack round you make; regardless of whether or not there are allies near the target or not. Just don't have another enemy within 5ft of you when you attack the target.
This will give you 3 normal attacks plus 5d6 nearly guaranteed. With a Rapier that is 3d8's (4d8's if you dual them) plus 5d6. It also allows you to get in and then out of melee range. The Kicker is that you also score a crit on a or 19 as well. So you're looking at increasing the odds of getting 2d8 + 10d6 sneak attack damage on one attack (and you get 3 chances to do it).
So yeah, this a workable build and with all of the feat and ability score options you can make something interesting. 6 in total.
Uh, level 6 champion probably would go barbarian 2 then rest Fighter if I wanted to optimize. If your not making it to level 20 then I'd probably go barbarian 4, but if so then Survivor is probably the best thing Champion has going for it.
Even if you don't want to optimize you don't really have a whole lot of options for multiclassing, all spellcastors & half spellcastors are a no with those stats, so your only choies are I think Barbarian, or Rogue. Barbarian being a better pick, although if you really wanted to you STR rogues exists but those are mainly for grappling builds and idk if that's the direction you want to go in.
Straight Fighter is always a good option too. Level 11 grants a third attack which is nice, and then you get feats for the next 6 levels so not too bad. Bit of a shame Fighter only gets their next damage bump after 11 at level 20 (so 9 levels of the same damage, no enhanced crit range does not count), but straight Fighter is still a solid option. Most campaigns I feel probably don't pass level 11 anyways.
No worries, I originally just made this thread because i was curious about what more experienced players think the most powerful build is. The question about my character came up later. Thanks for the input on both the original topic and about my character!
Fighter Champ and Rogue Swashbuckler would work rather well for you. Specifically, Fighter Champion lv 11 / Rogue Swashbuckler lv 9. <Focus on getting Rogue to lv 5 first before switching back and forth.
NOTE: You also should also consider whether you want 5d6 damage or a extra feat or ability score improvement. <This is due to the fact that Level 8 Rogue will only get you 4d6 sneak attack, but you will gain a open feat slot from a level 12 fighter. Alternatively, you lose out on the feat but pickup the Rogue's level 9 charisma-focused Panache feature. That is on the basis that your character makes it to level 20 anyways, so it might not really matter to you much.
Points of interest:
Fighter: Action Surge (only 1 but still a clutch feature), Indomitable (reroll a single failed save), Second Wind (for a single emergency heal), Remarkable Athlete (Meh...), Extra Attack (< obviously, why else did you pick this class?), and finally Improved Critical (19-20 gets ya a crit).
Rogue: Expertise in 4 skills is a bonus...
Sneak Attack adds 3d6 to every attack round you make with this build... but you will need to use a finesse weapon. I'd personally go with a Rapier and duel wield two of them for a 4th attack but that's entirely optional if you prefer a shield for more AC.
Cunning Action allows you to use a bonus action to run towards, away, or hide from enemies. (NOTE: you don't need to be doing much hiding with this build).
Fancy Footwork (plus extra attacks) means that you can effectively hit multiple targets and then slip away without them getting opportunity attacks against you. Great combo move with cunning action to get in and then get out of melee combat.
Uncanny Dodge and Evasion is a massive boost to survival as it helps you to limit just how much damage you take.
The best and most important part of this build however is the Rakish Audacity:
Starting at 3rd level, your confidence propels you into battle. You can give yourself a bonus to your initiative rolls equal to your Charisma modifier. <not gonna help ya much there but that's ok.
(This here however>) You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; you don’t need advantage on the attack roll to use your Sneak Attack against a creature if you are within 5 feet of it, no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. All the other rules for Sneak Attack still apply to you.
Basically, you can add the 3d6 damage to any attack round you make; regardless of whether or not there are allies near the target or not. Just don't have another enemy within 5ft of you when you attack the target.
This will give you 3 normal attacks plus 5d6 nearly guaranteed. With a Rapier that is 3d8's (4d8's if you dual them) plus 5d6. It also allows you to get in and then out of melee range. The Kicker is that you also score a crit on a or 19 as well. So you're looking at increasing the odds of getting 2d8 + 10d6 sneak attack damage on one attack (and you get 3 chances to do it).
So yeah, this a workable build and with all of the feat and ability score options you can make something interesting. 6 in total.
This sounds really interesting! I'll definitely consider this. It sounds like it would work well with the character and would make a lot more sense with the plot than barbarian would. Thank you for this!
You're welcome. I was looking at potential Barbarian subclasses but they are rather lackluster and even waste a level-up due to the fact that one of them is "extra attack". <they don't stack and it's a complete waste of a level up. Not to mention that Fighter and Barbarian features clash rather hard. Fighters get proficiencies in all armor and shield, while Barb's lose their unarmored defense feature if you have any armor on at all.
The Barbarian features also require that you be raging, which you only get so many of them...
You do pick up some decent features that can mesh well with fighter champ's features but the only really good one's are the damage reduction features and Reckless Attack. 3 attacks with advantage is kinda nice... but it's still not comparable to the Rogue's perks and especially Swashbuckler's bonuses and features.
Potential subclasses that someone could look into with a fighter are:
Storm Herald: A couple bonuses to resistances and special features. Nothing much else.
Totem Warrior: Only reason for this one is the 1st totem "bear" specifically gives you resistance to all damage types except psychic. Only real benefit of this one.
Again, Barbarian and Fighter are far too similar and/or don't mix too well. There are features that mix well enough, but also some that are completely negated. Like fighter, the Barbarian class requires more levels to unlock the good stuff. I'd say bare minimum level you'd want in Barbarian for any multi-class is 14 or 15 in order to get the most out of that class.
I'm sure there are workable builds and some others with in-game experience might have some insight on it more than I, but looking at it from the creator, I can't see how such a build would scale.
Yeah I was wondering about how well they actually went together especially due to the armor proficiency issue. The similarities between the two were one of the reasons i am more interested in the rogue. The other reason being that i want it to make sense with the current story. Having this character pick up a level in barbarian just wouldn't make sense. Rouge or ranger would. Looking into the Swashbuckler, i definitely agree that it would work pretty well. So, unless something else catches my attention before i level up again, (or i decide not to multiclass) that will be the route i take. Thanks again!
Since the title asks more generally I won't comment on the specific build mentioned in thread, but I've been toying with an echo Knight that has 2-4 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer by lvl 10.
The theme of it is diversity and control. Booming blade if you want to park something (then swap with echo so it either has to waste attack on echo or move and take both OA and the BB. Shield for when things get through your AC, Absorb Elements if you want to mitigate and buff next hit, and either Bless or Cure Wounds depending on which way you go with alignment.
If you get to 2nd level spells it gets even better with Blur, Mirror Image or Shadow Blade (rougher on action economy).
I had been toying with this before Strixhaven, but with Silvery Barbs and Vortex Warp from Strix, this build gets even more effective at battlefield control.
Between the mobility granted by the echo, the control exercised by Barbs and Vortex, and the defensive capabilities with Blur and Mirror, I'm thinking it will be fun to run for characters that are only going to get to lvl 10-12 in an adventure or two.
Eldritch knight. Elf, eladrin subrace. Gives access to a bonus action teleport that is basically, but isn’t a spell. This allows the Knight to teleport and preserve the action for spellcasting if necessary, but will likely still use attack action. The teleport regens on a short rest. Choose the fall variant for the ability to save Allie’s if necessary and to bypass Charisma based effects.
take fogcloud as a spell and blind fighting for advantage.
level 4 feat investment, telekinetic. This allows the fighter to potentially bonus action shove a creature into an ignoring spell effect. Is also a half feat to round up intelligence. Adds or improves magehand.
level 6, elven accuracy.
level 7, switch out w/e free floating level 1 spell your have for shadow blade.
dont multiclass, go to level 20.
this set up rivals and beats most great weapon fighter and sharpshooter builds in DPR with significantly less feat investment. The elven accuracy is amazing when combined with fog cloud or shadowblade and blindsight since you don’t suffer any accuracy loss. This means it’s much more reliable against creatures with high AC, which is where the damage needs to actually be done.
This set up, I don't like. It looks cool on paper, but it only starts to take off at lvl 7, and to boot you have to consider that very rarely will a character reach lvl 20. Chances are lvl 11 more often than not. The biggest glaring hole I see in this set up is that you have to use two spell slots to achieve your fog cloud+ shadow blade combo. Now, that may not seem like a huge thing, but we have to remember we're talking about an EK here. You have so very few slots. at 11, you could do this combo in three encounters before you run out of gas. Meanwhile, a GWM user can go all day every day.
Second, it's very teamwork-unfriendly. It suffers from the same awkwardness that warlocks with devilsight and darkness face-- other casters, with spells that rely on sight, are screwed. Except it's even worse, whereas darkness takes up 15 ft of the map, fog cloud takes up 20 ft. Also, its damage does not get improved all that much with teamwork either. Indeed, this set up surpasses GWM DPR... if you don't have advantage on the GWM's part. The moment they get it, and they can do so in several ways, their DPR easily beats out the shadowblade. Bless the GWM user, their damage jumps up a fair bit. Bless the EA shadowblade user, not much happens because they're already hitting most of the time. Find a fantastic magic weapon? GWM rejoices, and their damage jumps up a fair bit. the shadowblade user doesn't benefit, because shadow blade IS their magical weapon of choice. GWM has room for growth in a multitude of ways, this build doesn't.
Eldritch knight. Elf, eladrin subrace. Gives access to a bonus action teleport that is basically, but isn’t a spell. This allows the Knight to teleport and preserve the action for spellcasting if necessary, but will likely still use attack action. The teleport regens on a short rest. Choose the fall variant for the ability to save Allie’s if necessary and to bypass Charisma based effects.
take fogcloud as a spell and blind fighting for advantage.
level 4 feat investment, telekinetic. This allows the fighter to potentially bonus action shove a creature into an ignoring spell effect. Is also a half feat to round up intelligence. Adds or improves magehand.
level 6, elven accuracy.
level 7, switch out w/e free floating level 1 spell your have for shadow blade.
dont multiclass, go to level 20.
this set up rivals and beats most great weapon fighter and sharpshooter builds in DPR with significantly less feat investment. The elven accuracy is amazing when combined with fog cloud or shadowblade and blindsight since you don’t suffer any accuracy loss. This means it’s much more reliable against creatures with high AC, which is where the damage needs to actually be done.
This set up, I don't like. It looks cool on paper, but it only starts to take off at lvl 7, and to boot you have to consider that very rarely will a character reach lvl 20. Chances are lvl 11 more often than not. The biggest glaring hole I see in this set up is that you have to use two spell slots to achieve your fog cloud+ shadow blade combo. Now, that may not seem like a huge thing, but we have to remember we're talking about an EK here. You have so very few slots. at 11, you could do this combo in three encounters before you run out of gas. Meanwhile, a GWM user can go all day every day.
Second, it's very teamwork-unfriendly. It suffers from the same awkwardness that warlocks with devilsight and darkness face-- other casters, with spells that rely on sight, are screwed. Except it's even worse, whereas darkness takes up 15 ft of the map, fog cloud takes up 20 ft. Also, its damage does not get improved all that much with teamwork either. Indeed, this set up surpasses GWM DPR... if you don't have advantage on the GWM's part. The moment they get it, and they can do so in several ways, their DPR easily beats out the shadowblade. Bless the GWM user, their damage jumps up a fair bit. Bless the EA shadowblade user, not much happens because they're already hitting most of the time. Find a fantastic magic weapon? GWM rejoices, and their damage jumps up a fair bit. the shadowblade user doesn't benefit, because shadow blade IS their magical weapon of choice. GWM has room for growth in a multitude of ways, this build doesn't.
I don’t think I explained myself properly. Fog cloud and shadowblade aren’t a combo, they both require concentration, so they can’t be cast at the same time by the EK.
shadowblade provides its own advantage in dim light or darkness, on top of the weapon being created by the spell. When shadow blade is being used your Allie’s aren’t being blinded by fog.
the fog is for if things don’t go well, like when enemies start grappling and restraining Allie’s. Fog cloud is actually an equalizer since it can be used to overlap heavy obscurement in areas that enemies might not want it to, like if you’re fighting develops that make use of the “warlock combo” you cited. Fog cloud is usually an equalizer, negating enemies line of sight for spellcasters and w/e advantage the enemies might have. Only in this scenario not only are you leveling the playing field when necessary, your EK is enjoying disadvantage on melee attacks from within 10ft of it, and also advantage on its own attacks vs enemies within 10ft. A spell like fogcloud can be very helpful, and at higher levels a wizard or sorcerer on your team should be concentrating on higher level spell effects.
there’s also the fact that if the party has any control oriented spellcasters, then those spells usually don’t mesh well with melee due to a lack of effective range options. The Dex based EK can make silk use of attacking enemies stuck in a web spell with their longbow. Same thing with spike growth or other similar effects.
sometimes it’s the melee oriented character that gimps the party, and the Dex based EK has the versatility to contribute in more ways. It still hits stuff like a fighter obviously, but the magic can really help.
Eldritch knight. Elf, eladrin subrace. Gives access to a bonus action teleport that is basically, but isn’t a spell. This allows the Knight to teleport and preserve the action for spellcasting if necessary, but will likely still use attack action. The teleport regens on a short rest. Choose the fall variant for the ability to save Allie’s if necessary and to bypass Charisma based effects.
take fogcloud as a spell and blind fighting for advantage.
level 4 feat investment, telekinetic. This allows the fighter to potentially bonus action shove a creature into an ignoring spell effect. Is also a half feat to round up intelligence. Adds or improves magehand.
level 6, elven accuracy.
level 7, switch out w/e free floating level 1 spell your have for shadow blade.
dont multiclass, go to level 20.
this set up rivals and beats most great weapon fighter and sharpshooter builds in DPR with significantly less feat investment. The elven accuracy is amazing when combined with fog cloud or shadowblade and blindsight since you don’t suffer any accuracy loss. This means it’s much more reliable against creatures with high AC, which is where the damage needs to actually be done.
This set up, I don't like. It looks cool on paper, but it only starts to take off at lvl 7, and to boot you have to consider that very rarely will a character reach lvl 20. Chances are lvl 11 more often than not. The biggest glaring hole I see in this set up is that you have to use two spell slots to achieve your fog cloud+ shadow blade combo. Now, that may not seem like a huge thing, but we have to remember we're talking about an EK here. You have so very few slots. at 11, you could do this combo in three encounters before you run out of gas. Meanwhile, a GWM user can go all day every day.
Second, it's very teamwork-unfriendly. It suffers from the same awkwardness that warlocks with devilsight and darkness face-- other casters, with spells that rely on sight, are screwed. Except it's even worse, whereas darkness takes up 15 ft of the map, fog cloud takes up 20 ft. Also, its damage does not get improved all that much with teamwork either. Indeed, this set up surpasses GWM DPR... if you don't have advantage on the GWM's part. The moment they get it, and they can do so in several ways, their DPR easily beats out the shadowblade. Bless the GWM user, their damage jumps up a fair bit. Bless the EA shadowblade user, not much happens because they're already hitting most of the time. Find a fantastic magic weapon? GWM rejoices, and their damage jumps up a fair bit. the shadowblade user doesn't benefit, because shadow blade IS their magical weapon of choice. GWM has room for growth in a multitude of ways, this build doesn't.
I don’t think I explained myself properly. Fog cloud and shadowblade aren’t a combo, they both require concentration, so they can’t be cast at the same time by the EK.
shadowblade provides its own advantage in dim light or darkness, on top of the weapon being created by the spell. When shadow blade is being used your Allie’s aren’t being blinded by fog.
the fog is for if things don’t go well, like when enemies start grappling and restraining Allie’s. Fog cloud is actually an equalizer since it can be used to overlap heavy obscurement in areas that enemies might not want it to, like if you’re fighting develops that make use of the “warlock combo” you cited. Fog cloud is usually an equalizer, negating enemies line of sight for spellcasters and w/e advantage the enemies might have. Only in this scenario not only are you leveling the playing field when necessary, your EK is enjoying disadvantage on melee attacks from within 10ft of it, and also advantage on its own attacks vs enemies within 10ft. A spell like fogcloud can be very helpful, and at higher levels a wizard or sorcerer on your team should be concentrating on higher level spell effects.
there’s also the fact that if the party has any control oriented spellcasters, then those spells usually don’t mesh well with melee due to a lack of effective range options. The Dex based EK can make silk use of attacking enemies stuck in a web spell with their longbow. Same thing with spike growth or other similar effects.
sometimes it’s the melee oriented character that gimps the party, and the Dex based EK has the versatility to contribute in more ways. It still hits stuff like a fighter obviously, but the magic can really help.
I really like EK with Shadow Blade however I do not agree with going to 20 with it. The main reason being you can only ever hit one level 4 spell slot with EK 20. That is why I prefer to stop at EK 12 and go with a full caster multiclass for the last 8 levels. This allows the character to acquire level 5 and 6 spell slots to upcast the power of Shadow Blade. This comes at the drawback of not getting your 4th attack but you gain access to level 5 spell slots by level 17 compared to level 3 slots that a EK 17 is still using. So you hit harder for longer periods of the campaign. A multiclass gives access to 4d8 Shadow Blade from level 17 onwards whereas a pure EK is capped to a 3d8 Shadow Blade. With Action Surge a EK 20 can hit 3d8 eight times while a EK multiclass can hit for 4d8 six times so the EK does have a slight damage advantage due to modifier damage and maybe the Dueling Fighting Style, however this is only for level 20.
A pure EK also does get an extra Action Surge and more Indomitable uses while a multiclass gets the benefits of 8 levels of whatever class full caster you took. And there are many good multiclass options to synergize with the EK like Twilight Cleric.
As a note heavily obscured vision from fog cloud is different than dim light and darkness.. you wouldn't get advantages off of those attacks fog cloud. They would still be blind in fog cloud
Edit: reread your response and you clarified dim light/darkness vs fog. My apologies
Multiclassing doesn't do a lot for the fighter. If you play an Eldritch Knight, for example, you will only be weakened by dipping into anything. The other archetypes can get some gains by dipping into Warlock levels for Hex, Ranger for Hunter's Mark, or Rogue for sneak attack and expertise. Overall though, the fighter's feature set gains minimal benefit from dipping.
War Cleric is a good one, specially for EKs. More spells slots and much better optiond like Bless and Healing Word. If you manage to have decent WIS, couple extra bonus action attacks as well.
Fighter can multiclass with almost anything. And most builds will provide plenty of fun. It depends what suits you
I currently use a half-orc with a 3 class build : Rogue lvl2, Barbarian lvl1, Fighter lvl8(champion)
Feat:Great weapon Master and sentinel, Alert.
That character can move as fast as a monk and hit like a truck. It get an extra attack when it crits in a round (bonus action) and another extra attack when a monster attack a friend nearby (reaction)
As a bonus to great fighting abilities, he's in charge of unlocking doors and disarming traps. lol
I'll add 1 rogue lvl for guaranteed crit on 1st round, then fighter all the way. Final build will be Rogue 3, Barbarian 2, Fighter 15.
In terms of combat power, the most powerful fighter multiclass will be 2 levels of fighter with 18 levels of Wizard.
Anything beyond the 2 levels of fighter will only weaken the character. Basically the fewest levels of fighter possible will maximize your combat power. The only reason for going to level 2 instead of only 1 level is for Action Surge.
And you get heavy armor + Con Sav. Fighter 2 / Wizard 18 are amazing. But they aren't a real melee fighter. lol.
Fighter with levels can do 200 with no crit on a single target. They are far from beeing gimp. But a good spell caster can do big havoc as well. The key is to a have diversity within the group.
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The OP is already a level 6 champion, so this ship has sailed.
Eldritch knight. Elf, eladrin subrace. Gives access to a bonus action teleport that is basically, but isn’t a spell. This allows the Knight to teleport and preserve the action for spellcasting if necessary, but will likely still use attack action. The teleport regens on a short rest. Choose the fall variant for the ability to save Allie’s if necessary and to bypass Charisma based effects.
take fogcloud as a spell and blind fighting for advantage.
level 4 feat investment, telekinetic. This allows the fighter to potentially bonus action shove a creature into an ignoring spell effect. Is also a half feat to round up intelligence. Adds or improves magehand.
level 6, elven accuracy.
level 7, switch out w/e free floating level 1 spell your have for shadow blade.
dont multiclass, go to level 20.
this set up rivals and beats most great weapon fighter and sharpshooter builds in DPR with significantly less feat investment. The elven accuracy is amazing when combined with fog cloud or shadowblade and blindsight since you don’t suffer any accuracy loss. This means it’s much more reliable against creatures with high AC, which is where the damage needs to actually be done.
The OP is already a level 6 champion, so this ship has sailed.
That’s what I get for not reading. Looking at the stats that we’re posted, and the aspirations to be some sort of tank, I think barbarian would be a good fit.
the stats are good enough with dexterity and constitution that the AC wouldn’t drop very much, or any at all with unarmored defense.
id say ancestral guardian dip would work very well. There’s no range limit on the imposition of disadvantage vs the first target creature, so in a pinch a bow could be used. The feature granting disadvantage and resistance actually makes the rest of the party tankier than the barbarian. 3 uses of rage could go a long way.
I forgot this was about OP's character.
Uh, level 6 champion probably would go barbarian 2 then rest Fighter if I wanted to optimize. If your not making it to level 20 then I'd probably go barbarian 4, but if so then Survivor is probably the best thing Champion has going for it.
Even if you don't want to optimize you don't really have a whole lot of options for multiclassing, all spellcastors & half spellcastors are a no with those stats, so your only choies are I think Barbarian, or Rogue. Barbarian being a better pick, although if you really wanted to you STR rogues exists but those are mainly for grappling builds and idk if that's the direction you want to go in.
Straight Fighter is always a good option too. Level 11 grants a third attack which is nice, and then you get feats for the next 6 levels so not too bad. Bit of a shame Fighter only gets their next damage bump after 11 at level 20 (so 9 levels of the same damage, no enhanced crit range does not count), but straight Fighter is still a solid option. Most campaigns I feel probably don't pass level 11 anyways.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Fighter Champ and Rogue Swashbuckler would work rather well for you. Specifically, Fighter Champion lv 11 / Rogue Swashbuckler lv 9. <Focus on getting Rogue to lv 5 first before switching back and forth.
NOTE: You also should also consider whether you want 5d6 damage or a extra feat or ability score improvement. <This is due to the fact that Level 8 Rogue will only get you 4d6 sneak attack, but you will gain a open feat slot from a level 12 fighter. Alternatively, you lose out on the feat but pickup the Rogue's level 9 charisma-focused Panache feature. That is on the basis that your character makes it to level 20 anyways, so it might not really matter to you much.
Points of interest:
Fighter: Action Surge (only 1 but still a clutch feature), Indomitable (reroll a single failed save), Second Wind (for a single emergency heal), Remarkable Athlete (Meh...), Extra Attack (< obviously, why else did you pick this class?), and finally Improved Critical (19-20 gets ya a crit).
Rogue: Expertise in 4 skills is a bonus...
Sneak Attack adds 3d6 to every attack round you make with this build... but you will need to use a finesse weapon. I'd personally go with a Rapier and duel wield two of them for a 4th attack but that's entirely optional if you prefer a shield for more AC.
Cunning Action allows you to use a bonus action to run towards, away, or hide from enemies. (NOTE: you don't need to be doing much hiding with this build).
Fancy Footwork (plus extra attacks) means that you can effectively hit multiple targets and then slip away without them getting opportunity attacks against you. Great combo move with cunning action to get in and then get out of melee combat.
Uncanny Dodge and Evasion is a massive boost to survival as it helps you to limit just how much damage you take.
The best and most important part of this build however is the Rakish Audacity:
Starting at 3rd level, your confidence propels you into battle. You can give yourself a bonus to your initiative rolls equal to your Charisma modifier. <not gonna help ya much there but that's ok.
(This here however>) You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; you don’t need advantage on the attack roll to use your Sneak Attack against a creature if you are within 5 feet of it, no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. All the other rules for Sneak Attack still apply to you.
Basically, you can add the 3d6 damage to any attack round you make; regardless of whether or not there are allies near the target or not. Just don't have another enemy within 5ft of you when you attack the target.
This will give you 3 normal attacks plus 5d6 nearly guaranteed. With a Rapier that is 3d8's (4d8's if you dual them) plus 5d6. It also allows you to get in and then out of melee range. The Kicker is that you also score a crit on a or 19 as well. So you're looking at increasing the odds of getting 2d8 + 10d6 sneak attack damage on one attack (and you get 3 chances to do it).
So yeah, this a workable build and with all of the feat and ability score options you can make something interesting. 6 in total.
No worries, I originally just made this thread because i was curious about what more experienced players think the most powerful build is. The question about my character came up later. Thanks for the input on both the original topic and about my character!
This sounds really interesting! I'll definitely consider this. It sounds like it would work well with the character and would make a lot more sense with the plot than barbarian would. Thank you for this!
You're welcome. I was looking at potential Barbarian subclasses but they are rather lackluster and even waste a level-up due to the fact that one of them is "extra attack". <they don't stack and it's a complete waste of a level up. Not to mention that Fighter and Barbarian features clash rather hard. Fighters get proficiencies in all armor and shield, while Barb's lose their unarmored defense feature if you have any armor on at all.
The Barbarian features also require that you be raging, which you only get so many of them...
You do pick up some decent features that can mesh well with fighter champ's features but the only really good one's are the damage reduction features and Reckless Attack. 3 attacks with advantage is kinda nice... but it's still not comparable to the Rogue's perks and especially Swashbuckler's bonuses and features.
Potential subclasses that someone could look into with a fighter are:
Storm Herald: A couple bonuses to resistances and special features. Nothing much else.
Totem Warrior: Only reason for this one is the 1st totem "bear" specifically gives you resistance to all damage types except psychic. Only real benefit of this one.
Again, Barbarian and Fighter are far too similar and/or don't mix too well. There are features that mix well enough, but also some that are completely negated. Like fighter, the Barbarian class requires more levels to unlock the good stuff. I'd say bare minimum level you'd want in Barbarian for any multi-class is 14 or 15 in order to get the most out of that class.
I'm sure there are workable builds and some others with in-game experience might have some insight on it more than I, but looking at it from the creator, I can't see how such a build would scale.
Yeah I was wondering about how well they actually went together especially due to the armor proficiency issue. The similarities between the two were one of the reasons i am more interested in the rogue. The other reason being that i want it to make sense with the current story. Having this character pick up a level in barbarian just wouldn't make sense. Rouge or ranger would. Looking into the Swashbuckler, i definitely agree that it would work pretty well. So, unless something else catches my attention before i level up again, (or i decide not to multiclass) that will be the route i take. Thanks again!
Just know you can only sneak attack with a finesse or ranged weapon. If you’re the tank, ranged is out, so grab yourself a rapier
This I know lol. I will definitely do that if I go ahead with this build. Thanks for the tip!
Since the title asks more generally I won't comment on the specific build mentioned in thread, but I've been toying with an echo Knight that has 2-4 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer by lvl 10.
The theme of it is diversity and control. Booming blade if you want to park something (then swap with echo so it either has to waste attack on echo or move and take both OA and the BB. Shield for when things get through your AC, Absorb Elements if you want to mitigate and buff next hit, and either Bless or Cure Wounds depending on which way you go with alignment.
If you get to 2nd level spells it gets even better with Blur, Mirror Image or Shadow Blade (rougher on action economy).
I had been toying with this before Strixhaven, but with Silvery Barbs and Vortex Warp from Strix, this build gets even more effective at battlefield control.
Between the mobility granted by the echo, the control exercised by Barbs and Vortex, and the defensive capabilities with Blur and Mirror, I'm thinking it will be fun to run for characters that are only going to get to lvl 10-12 in an adventure or two.
This set up, I don't like. It looks cool on paper, but it only starts to take off at lvl 7, and to boot you have to consider that very rarely will a character reach lvl 20. Chances are lvl 11 more often than not. The biggest glaring hole I see in this set up is that you have to use two spell slots to achieve your fog cloud+ shadow blade combo. Now, that may not seem like a huge thing, but we have to remember we're talking about an EK here. You have so very few slots. at 11, you could do this combo in three encounters before you run out of gas. Meanwhile, a GWM user can go all day every day.
Second, it's very teamwork-unfriendly. It suffers from the same awkwardness that warlocks with devilsight and darkness face-- other casters, with spells that rely on sight, are screwed. Except it's even worse, whereas darkness takes up 15 ft of the map, fog cloud takes up 20 ft. Also, its damage does not get improved all that much with teamwork either. Indeed, this set up surpasses GWM DPR... if you don't have advantage on the GWM's part. The moment they get it, and they can do so in several ways, their DPR easily beats out the shadowblade. Bless the GWM user, their damage jumps up a fair bit. Bless the EA shadowblade user, not much happens because they're already hitting most of the time. Find a fantastic magic weapon? GWM rejoices, and their damage jumps up a fair bit. the shadowblade user doesn't benefit, because shadow blade IS their magical weapon of choice. GWM has room for growth in a multitude of ways, this build doesn't.
I don’t think I explained myself properly. Fog cloud and shadowblade aren’t a combo, they both require concentration, so they can’t be cast at the same time by the EK.
shadowblade provides its own advantage in dim light or darkness, on top of the weapon being created by the spell. When shadow blade is being used your Allie’s aren’t being blinded by fog.
the fog is for if things don’t go well, like when enemies start grappling and restraining Allie’s. Fog cloud is actually an equalizer since it can be used to overlap heavy obscurement in areas that enemies might not want it to, like if you’re fighting develops that make use of the “warlock combo” you cited. Fog cloud is usually an equalizer, negating enemies line of sight for spellcasters and w/e advantage the enemies might have. Only in this scenario not only are you leveling the playing field when necessary, your EK is enjoying disadvantage on melee attacks from within 10ft of it, and also advantage on its own attacks vs enemies within 10ft. A spell like fogcloud can be very helpful, and at higher levels a wizard or sorcerer on your team should be concentrating on higher level spell effects.
there’s also the fact that if the party has any control oriented spellcasters, then those spells usually don’t mesh well with melee due to a lack of effective range options. The Dex based EK can make silk use of attacking enemies stuck in a web spell with their longbow. Same thing with spike growth or other similar effects.
sometimes it’s the melee oriented character that gimps the party, and the Dex based EK has the versatility to contribute in more ways. It still hits stuff like a fighter obviously, but the magic can really help.
I really like EK with Shadow Blade however I do not agree with going to 20 with it. The main reason being you can only ever hit one level 4 spell slot with EK 20. That is why I prefer to stop at EK 12 and go with a full caster multiclass for the last 8 levels. This allows the character to acquire level 5 and 6 spell slots to upcast the power of Shadow Blade. This comes at the drawback of not getting your 4th attack but you gain access to level 5 spell slots by level 17 compared to level 3 slots that a EK 17 is still using. So you hit harder for longer periods of the campaign. A multiclass gives access to 4d8 Shadow Blade from level 17 onwards whereas a pure EK is capped to a 3d8 Shadow Blade. With Action Surge a EK 20 can hit 3d8 eight times while a EK multiclass can hit for 4d8 six times so the EK does have a slight damage advantage due to modifier damage and maybe the Dueling Fighting Style, however this is only for level 20.
A pure EK also does get an extra Action Surge and more Indomitable uses while a multiclass gets the benefits of 8 levels of whatever class full caster you took. And there are many good multiclass options to synergize with the EK like Twilight Cleric.
As a note heavily obscured vision from fog cloud is different than dim light and darkness.. you wouldn't get advantages off of those attacks fog cloud. They would still be blind in fog cloud
Edit: reread your response and you clarified dim light/darkness vs fog. My apologies
Multiclassing doesn't do a lot for the fighter. If you play an Eldritch Knight, for example, you will only be weakened by dipping into anything. The other archetypes can get some gains by dipping into Warlock levels for Hex, Ranger for Hunter's Mark, or Rogue for sneak attack and expertise. Overall though, the fighter's feature set gains minimal benefit from dipping.
J
War Cleric is a good one, specially for EKs. More spells slots and much better optiond like Bless and Healing Word. If you manage to have decent WIS, couple extra bonus action attacks as well.
Fighter can multiclass with almost anything. And most builds will provide plenty of fun. It depends what suits you
I currently use a half-orc with a 3 class build : Rogue lvl2, Barbarian lvl1, Fighter lvl8(champion)
Feat:Great weapon Master and sentinel, Alert.
That character can move as fast as a monk and hit like a truck. It get an extra attack when it crits in a round (bonus action) and another extra attack when a monster attack a friend nearby (reaction)
As a bonus to great fighting abilities, he's in charge of unlocking doors and disarming traps. lol
I'll add 1 rogue lvl for guaranteed crit on 1st round, then fighter all the way. Final build will be Rogue 3, Barbarian 2, Fighter 15.
In terms of combat power, the most powerful fighter multiclass will be 2 levels of fighter with 18 levels of Wizard.
Anything beyond the 2 levels of fighter will only weaken the character. Basically the fewest levels of fighter possible will maximize your combat power. The only reason for going to level 2 instead of only 1 level is for Action Surge.
And you get heavy armor + Con Sav. Fighter 2 / Wizard 18 are amazing. But they aren't a real melee fighter. lol.
Fighter with levels can do 200 with no crit on a single target. They are far from beeing gimp. But a good spell caster can do big havoc as well. The key is to a have diversity within the group.