I wish I knew where to find the reddit post that originally described this, but there was a series of posts regarding the 'philosophy' of the different classes. Before I read this, the Fighter and the Barbarian seemed weird and boring, afterward I was overflowing with ideas for them.
Regarding the Fighter, the writer posited that they are all about 'The Heroic Moment', that moment when the protagonist rises from a fireball that should have killed him, rallies against his grievous wounds, or just pushes himself to the extreme at JUST the right moment.
When looked at through that lens, the abilities of a Fighter (Adrenaline Rush, Second Wind, and Indomitable) all take on a much more cinematic feel. A character pushing past their own limitations like some kind of Anime Protagonist.
I really wish I could find the posts, they were fantastic, but my google fu is weak at the moment. But hopefully my limited description can do their work justice.
I think one of the most enjoyable things to do can be to play a character who doesn't necessarily realize what they're bad at. Next time I play something that's fairly vanilla in terms of powers like a fighter, I'm going to create a character who thinks he's a bard but is more enthusiasm than talent. A wannabe dashing swordsman who strums badly on a lute and sings off key.
1. They have some of the highest damage output out classing most high levels spells and other classes
2. Because of all the extra ASIs they can be turned for pretty much any situation including skill monkey if you take the right feats
3.can be ranged or close quarters or even spell caster
4. Can use any type of armor and has high base HP
5. Works well as a second class due to how simple it is and how strong the fighting style and action surge is at such a low level
While I will admit rogue is my #1 favorite class to play I have played many types of fighter due to there flexibility and effectiveness in combat.
I has to admit it, Rogues, Thieves & Knights bores me in boredoom of Boring bores.
They are so OP, so "Mr. do-it-all easy" and..... meeeh. My wizard has to spend levels and levels and attunements to be as OP as them, while they being at lvl 3 are so OP....
Those classes should be nerfed until the bone, unless..........................
After playing melees nearly exclusively since 1986, I can assure you that they did indeed get old. My sword swinging days are over. It's all about that magic now.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There are plenty of other ways to build a fun, interesting fighter. Utilizing feats can give you a lot more flexibility. Grappler can allow you to control enemies a bit more, mageslayer can fit with a good fighter backstory to focus on shutting down enemy spellslingers. Sentinel and a reach weapon makes you more in control of the battlefield. Magic initiate can allow a bit more flexibility, especially if you take something like thorn whip that dovetails well with a fighter wanting enemies closer. Or if you want to play a more exciting fighter, build an eldritch knight and get some built-in spellcasting power. A lot of the fun you have comes down to how you play it. Adding in character motivation to tactical thinking during combat makes it a lot more fun. Is your character a bit of an arrogant thrillseeker? Go ahead and charge that owlbear Leeroy Jenkins style. Is your fighter more of the party big brother/dad type? Have him focus on guarding the wizard/cleric.
🤷🏼♂️ It is what it is. Some people don’t want complicated. Some people are new. Etc etc.
does it make them less fun? No. People have fun doing all kinds of stuff.
i have a friend who has fun turning his bag of holding into an episode of hoarders, and has a “wild magic table” but for what he pulls out of his bag of holding.
goft for the Queen? A half eaten dead raccoon....”sorry your majesty. I can’t find the really fancy diamond necklace with magic embue to protect you from arrows... but uh... thought that counts right? (Nervous chuckle)”
At least I hope you'll go to learn a Warcry... or similar.... just to frightening the enemies.
A warcry is un-necessary when I simply burn my enemies to ash. The fighter is good for carrying my treasure though, they make fine mules.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I agree that fighters can be a sort of "tutorial" class for new players, but at higher levels and in more complex situations you need to think a little more than "I walk up to someone and hit them with a sword". My favorite D&D encounters are always the ones where you're fighting essentially another party; a group of skilled intelligent opponents versus just a single magical beast. That's where knowing how to play a martial based character well is truly important. Sure you can just stand toe-to-toe with the enemy tank and wail on each other, but might it be smarter to charge the squishy wizard or healer?
I've been playing mostly martial characters since about 1986. Had enough of them.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
nothing quite beats the idea of being a force to be reckoned with in the battlefield, and its all your own might and cunning, i love them personally, people go for paladin as the better option cause its got magic, healing and- of course, cant forget the smites, but to me, the idea of someone whos ordinary, but they made themselves strong by pure skill, not relying on a more powerfull force (but not discarding them as only a fool would turn down an edge and powerfull tool [eldritch knights are my favorite fighter afterall!]) and not having a force that is in some way making sure they stay on the righteous path. i dont know, just something about the uncertainty of their cause but they follow through is something i really like,
all the other classes are fun to play no doubt! ive slung spells and sneak attacked myself
just that to me theres something special of the person who says "i am here, i am strong, i am an equal" despite it all, a strong stalwart figure who sees things and thinks, "no matter the odds, i will fight"
I completely agree in that your mental image of your character can greatly influence the fun you have with them. Sure mechanically swinging a sword is boring, but playing spellcasters can be boring at times as well, particularly when you know this is a lower level encounter and you need to save your powerful magic for the big boss a few chambers over. Clerics can be super boring as well, if you're just a healing machine. Adding in some characterization can keep things interesting. For example I once played a cleric who amongst other traits was obsessive over protecting party members. This led to him charging into some pretty hairy situations when a PC went down. Made moments a lot more epic and fun than just going "oh okay I hang back and cast healing word".
Play an Eldritch Knight and you have a ton of options every round. Even at relatively low level you can:
Close for melee attacks for effective damage
Attack with ranged weapons for effective damage
Attack with ranged spells for effective damage
Cast utility spells to protect yourself or party members (e.g. Prot Good and Evil)
Body block enemies (positioning)
Cast AoE damage (e.g. Thunderwave)
Shove enemies
Judge when to action surge (once you have multi attack, this should almost always be when you shove an enemy to make them prone, then deal several attacks with advantage unless you want to cast a spell and then attack)
Use your reactions to protect yourself
I think that maybe people forget that positioning is crucial, and the ability of tanky melee like an EK is vital to success in a fight. Forming that wall of steel to keep your back line is one of the most rewarding roles to play.
There is far more nuance to playing a fighter than there is to playing a ranged damage dealing spell caster.
People talk about the battlemaster giving options and nuance to the fighter, they always forget to mention the eldritch knight, hard to beat getting g acess to the wizards spell list.
People also bash them because they have so little in the way of magic, but that's kinda the point, you are a full fighter with some spells, and you can do things no other fighter can, deceive enemies with illusions, control the.battlefield with dificult terrain and forced movement charm enemies, no other fighter can do such things.
Any weakness you can think of the fightern or realms you think they are lacking, you can shore up with the eldritch knight
And never forget they can actionsurge 2 spells in their turn, the rule people think of is only for bonus action spells. Have fun with that!
It's fairly obvious that the Eldritch Knight is the least 'boring' fighter option to play because it gives you the most options. It's a lot harder to play a fighter who has less options and figure out ways to make them useful. I feel like the Eldritch Knight is a bit of a cop-out in terms of choosing a fighter, it feels like the option chosen for either min-max players or someone who says "aw man I don't want to play a fighter but the party needs a tank". I'm sure there are some players out there who have a good backstory/RP reason for going this route, but I myself have little interest in playing an Eldritch Knight, just because it seems so easy to figure out.
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Don't worry, it never gets old.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I wish I knew where to find the reddit post that originally described this, but there was a series of posts regarding the 'philosophy' of the different classes. Before I read this, the Fighter and the Barbarian seemed weird and boring, afterward I was overflowing with ideas for them.
Regarding the Fighter, the writer posited that they are all about 'The Heroic Moment', that moment when the protagonist rises from a fireball that should have killed him, rallies against his grievous wounds, or just pushes himself to the extreme at JUST the right moment.
When looked at through that lens, the abilities of a Fighter (Adrenaline Rush, Second Wind, and Indomitable) all take on a much more cinematic feel. A character pushing past their own limitations like some kind of Anime Protagonist.
I really wish I could find the posts, they were fantastic, but my google fu is weak at the moment. But hopefully my limited description can do their work justice.
Edit: Found the link! https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/dg0nu3/the_philosophies_of_the_4_martial_classes/
I think one of the most enjoyable things to do can be to play a character who doesn't necessarily realize what they're bad at. Next time I play something that's fairly vanilla in terms of powers like a fighter, I'm going to create a character who thinks he's a bard but is more enthusiasm than talent. A wannabe dashing swordsman who strums badly on a lute and sings off key.
I has to admit it, Rogues, Thieves & Knights bores me in boredoom of Boring bores.
They are so OP, so "Mr. do-it-all easy" and..... meeeh. My wizard has to spend levels and levels and attunements to be as OP as them, while they being at lvl 3 are so OP....
Those classes should be nerfed until the bone, unless..........................
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
After playing melees nearly exclusively since 1986, I can assure you that they did indeed get old. My sword swinging days are over. It's all about that magic now.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Any class can be boring. It's up too you to make them not boring.
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
Yeah I am done with move to target, swing weapon.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
At least I hope you'll go to learn a Warcry... or similar.... just to frightening the enemies.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
There are plenty of other ways to build a fun, interesting fighter. Utilizing feats can give you a lot more flexibility. Grappler can allow you to control enemies a bit more, mageslayer can fit with a good fighter backstory to focus on shutting down enemy spellslingers. Sentinel and a reach weapon makes you more in control of the battlefield. Magic initiate can allow a bit more flexibility, especially if you take something like thorn whip that dovetails well with a fighter wanting enemies closer. Or if you want to play a more exciting fighter, build an eldritch knight and get some built-in spellcasting power. A lot of the fun you have comes down to how you play it. Adding in character motivation to tactical thinking during combat makes it a lot more fun. Is your character a bit of an arrogant thrillseeker? Go ahead and charge that owlbear Leeroy Jenkins style. Is your fighter more of the party big brother/dad type? Have him focus on guarding the wizard/cleric.
i personaly only have experience as a Mclass runeknight fighter, but id say im having fun with the class itself
My Spells, My Races, My Magic Items, My Monsters, My Subclasses,
Fighter is the “tutorial” class of D&D.
🤷🏼♂️ It is what it is. Some people don’t want complicated. Some people are new. Etc etc.
does it make them less fun? No. People have fun doing all kinds of stuff.
i have a friend who has fun turning his bag of holding into an episode of hoarders, and has a “wild magic table” but for what he pulls out of his bag of holding.
goft for the Queen? A half eaten dead raccoon....”sorry your majesty. I can’t find the really fancy diamond necklace with magic embue to protect you from arrows... but uh... thought that counts right? (Nervous chuckle)”
Blank
A warcry is un-necessary when I simply burn my enemies to ash. The fighter is good for carrying my treasure though, they make fine mules.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I agree that fighters can be a sort of "tutorial" class for new players, but at higher levels and in more complex situations you need to think a little more than "I walk up to someone and hit them with a sword". My favorite D&D encounters are always the ones where you're fighting essentially another party; a group of skilled intelligent opponents versus just a single magical beast. That's where knowing how to play a martial based character well is truly important. Sure you can just stand toe-to-toe with the enemy tank and wail on each other, but might it be smarter to charge the squishy wizard or healer?
I've been playing mostly martial characters since about 1986. Had enough of them.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
nothing quite beats the idea of being a force to be reckoned with in the battlefield, and its all your own might and cunning, i love them personally, people go for paladin as the better option cause its got magic, healing and- of course, cant forget the smites, but to me, the idea of someone whos ordinary, but they made themselves strong by pure skill, not relying on a more powerfull force (but not discarding them as only a fool would turn down an edge and powerfull tool [eldritch knights are my favorite fighter afterall!]) and not having a force that is in some way making sure they stay on the righteous path. i dont know, just something about the uncertainty of their cause but they follow through is something i really like,
all the other classes are fun to play no doubt! ive slung spells and sneak attacked myself
just that to me theres something special of the person who says "i am here, i am strong, i am an equal" despite it all, a strong stalwart figure who sees things and thinks, "no matter the odds, i will fight"
Also everybody gangsta till the fighters starts attacking them
I completely agree in that your mental image of your character can greatly influence the fun you have with them. Sure mechanically swinging a sword is boring, but playing spellcasters can be boring at times as well, particularly when you know this is a lower level encounter and you need to save your powerful magic for the big boss a few chambers over. Clerics can be super boring as well, if you're just a healing machine. Adding in some characterization can keep things interesting. For example I once played a cleric who amongst other traits was obsessive over protecting party members. This led to him charging into some pretty hairy situations when a PC went down. Made moments a lot more epic and fun than just going "oh okay I hang back and cast healing word".
Play an Eldritch Knight and you have a ton of options every round. Even at relatively low level you can:
I think that maybe people forget that positioning is crucial, and the ability of tanky melee like an EK is vital to success in a fight. Forming that wall of steel to keep your back line is one of the most rewarding roles to play.
There is far more nuance to playing a fighter than there is to playing a ranged damage dealing spell caster.
Seconded Sanvael!
People talk about the battlemaster giving options and nuance to the fighter, they always forget to mention the eldritch knight, hard to beat getting g acess to the wizards spell list.
People also bash them because they have so little in the way of magic, but that's kinda the point, you are a full fighter with some spells, and you can do things no other fighter can, deceive enemies with illusions, control the.battlefield with dificult terrain and forced movement charm enemies, no other fighter can do such things.
Any weakness you can think of the fightern or realms you think they are lacking, you can shore up with the eldritch knight
And never forget they can actionsurge 2 spells in their turn, the rule people think of is only for bonus action spells. Have fun with that!
It's fairly obvious that the Eldritch Knight is the least 'boring' fighter option to play because it gives you the most options. It's a lot harder to play a fighter who has less options and figure out ways to make them useful. I feel like the Eldritch Knight is a bit of a cop-out in terms of choosing a fighter, it feels like the option chosen for either min-max players or someone who says "aw man I don't want to play a fighter but the party needs a tank". I'm sure there are some players out there who have a good backstory/RP reason for going this route, but I myself have little interest in playing an Eldritch Knight, just because it seems so easy to figure out.