I've taken Absorb Energy in several games had had it turn out to be useful each time. And quite frankly, if the GM let the entire party be protected from a dragon's breath weapon by turtling inside Leomond's Tiny Hut, the GM softballed that dragon.
No turtling. We ran out and fought the dragon until we got hurt, then ran back into the Hut to get some healing before we ran out again. But that hut saved two of our lives.
Also helped that we had were well equipped. One of us had a Ring of lightning resistance (blue dragon). It was night and our cleric was a Cleric of Twilight Domain (UA), so he could see better than the dragon and managed to share it with our archer.
I used a portent to make my save and survive the electricity, after I had already used my Shield to protect myself from his minions.
I'd point out that the description of the spell states that it ends early if the caster leaves the hut.
It also only has a duration of 8 hours, the dragon could have simply waited them out or used it's time intelligently to batter them when the spell ends
We did make a mistake on me leaving the hut. But the rest of the party was fine doing with the pop out and in strategy.
As for waiting us out, that is silly. Our entire plan was to use it as temporary shelter for the wounded. The fighter types went out and kicked the dragon's butt. Waiting us out = get yourself killed while we prep our deadliest spell. Oh dragon, you are waiting here for me to cast Greater invisibility on the Rogue? Thanks.
The main point was that Absorb Element does an OK job for 1 round while there are LOTS of better ways to deal with that situation. Shield however is a top 10 spell, on par with Misty Step, Counterspell, or Banishment.
My bad, I have only played and run Tier 1 games in 5th ed, in the versions I am used to Dragons were able to cast spells. So a simple dispel magic, or any of a number of other options would be available. When/Why did they remove dragon spell casting?
Dragon casting is now a variant rule- some get spells per the sidebar on page 86 of the Monster Manual. But even without spellcasting, dragons are smart and cunning, there are lot of things one could have done once if found the Tiny Hut besides just taking shots at whomever popped their head out and letting them drain its HP. But that's not really on topic here.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
1st reply! Not to egg the conversation on, but my experience with Absorb Elements has been a positive one, both in roleplay and fights. Yes there may be one-time uses of AE, such as when my party's wild-magic sorcerer fireballed herself and nearly killed the entire team (except me and the barbarian). However, though using up a limited spell-slot for a limited spell-casting class, AE has also allowed me as a fighter to take a potentially massive elemental-hit at 1/2 damage, then return the favour at +1d6 damage to 1 of my multitude of attacks. There are opportunities for this to be of use, much like any spell. That being said shield is a great life-saver for general purposes, and last until your next turn starts, the fact that both are reaction spells speaks volumes for an EK, that shouldn't be overlooked. Especially when making a melee/defensive EK rather than blaster EK. Quite frankly I am glad to have both spells in my roster. I'd say pay attention to your DM's choice of baddies and work into your character's experiences/history.
As for the original topic, cantrips:
Lightning Lure: be careful, it's a challenge spell not an attack spell. Their strength vs your intellegence, if your stat is low be wary. I failed multiple times to pull the large demon into the lava pit between us, but I did pull a fish-folk off a hydra, smacking his face into the side of the boat. Also it was mentioned in earlier comments that you don't shock them unless within 5 feet... keep in mind it's a 15foot range spell that pulls them 10feet closer, which makes them within 5 feet of you. (DM may allow someone within 5 feet to be pulled 5 feet past you, an interesting choice when cliffs are presentt ;) ) Essentially, it's useful on the weak or spell-casters.
Shocking grasp: great for hit & run, and useful at level 7 when you can shock, run, and attack someone new
Booming blade: Damn I wish I knew about these ones when I chose my cantrips, it would flow so nicely with the level 7 feature of cantrip + weapon attack. Scaling damage of a rarely resisted element? Yes please. GFB is also useful. Both not-so much if there's only 1 or they don't feel like moving.
(keep in mind the following mean less attacks/turn at higher levels)
Prestidigitation: utility for out-of fights, which let's be honest fighters don't do much unless fighting. So EK with this as an option to keep you active in the game.
Mold earth: So many possibilities for environment management in/out of fights.
My experience with Absorb Elements has been quite good last week in particular we had a fight with five Ankheg’s there were six of us so of coarse they used acid spray and I was in the line for all five used AE and tanked them like the EK I was also my EK is strength based so yer I failed the dex saves
Personally I went with Blade Ward and Fire Bolt, matching defense and offense with my cantrips. After level 7, Blade Ward shines in situations where you have a heavy hitting enemy. In the party I've been with, we had no magic coverage other than me. That means no counterspells - so absorb energy has been my saving grace a number of times. The best spells for an EK depend entirely on how you play your knight, and what the party can do to support him or her. So take a look at your potential spells with that in mind and you'll pick the right ones for you.
I generally don't reply to these, but I'm playing an EK right now and you're assertion that GFB/BB aren't worth it is in error IMO. My character isn't a direct corollary to what you're doing since I multi-classed into Wizard 2 levels (so far) to get the insanely powerful abilities that War Wizard grant. I wanted to break from the pack and went with (point buy) ST and INT as my highest stats, I even took magic initiate at level 1 as a variant human so I could feel more like an actual EK from level one up. Familiar for my level 1 so I basically have advantage on every single attack I make (until the DM decides to waste an attack to kill it) is pure gold at low level. I also took Firebolt and GFB as my cantrips and both performed admirably. After starting at a fighter, I took 2 levels of Wiz to get War Wizard and have progressed the rest so far with Fighter.
Back to what I was saying... the ability as a front line fighter to pop off Acid Stream or Burning Hands.. then Action Surge to whack away with GFB... absolute gold. I've done 70-80 damage in the first round as a 5th level character and taken 1-2 bad guys out. I ended the fight not having taken a single point of damage, using my 4 1st level spell slots as shield/absorb elements charges. Acid Stream is probably too powerful for 1st level really.. 30 ft long damage stream.. and if they fail they auto take damage every turn for a min unless they take an entire turn to clean themselves of the acid? Talk about crowd control for a front line fighter!
I don't want to make this too long.. but I wanted to mention that even at lower levels, once you have action surge you can take 2 mob out in 1 round pretty easy.. GFB left guy.. splash the right.. action surge and do the opposite. I did it more than once at level 4 (when I got my 2nd level fighter).
I generally don't reply to these, but I'm playing an EK right now and you're assertion that GFB/BB aren't worth it is in error IMO.
The problem with Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade is that they limit you to only one attack per action, so from level 5 onwards you probably don't want to use them on most of your turns. If you're planning to take War Caster though then they can also be used with attacks of opportunity which is pretty cool. With the bonus effects you can sometimes still justify the loss of attacks, for example if you can hit a low AC enemy with GFB and direct the bonus damage onto a high AC enemy next to them (who you might have missed with a separate extra attack) then that's like a free hit, while Booming Blade is handy for trying to stop an enemy from moving, though I feel like the damage isn't really good enough for how situational it is. They're definitely not bad options, but I think if you have a party member who can buff your attacks (e.g- War Cleric) then that combo will be a lot better at higher levels.
Personally I prefer cantrips that force saving throws rather than using attack rolls; this gives you options against enemies with high AC, and can be used within melee range without penalty, and some of them have decent range which is ideal if you're not playing a DEX build so can't just use a (cross)bow.
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Personally, assuming I did not take arcane initiate at level 1, I'm probably going to pickup greenflame blade and either ray of frost or firebolt. I've been caught too many times where I /needed/ some ranged capability and did not have it. Generally speaking I prefer the RoF slow to FB's extra range and slightly higher damage, but that's personal preference. Most players take FB and do not look back.
GFB is extremely useful, especially until you can make a third attack/round. I prefer it to BB on a fighter, because my groups rarely seem to get opportunities for the extra damage to proc. For other classes, my opinion would be different. With warcaster, the ability to scale any OA you can make up would be nice. For example, a PAM fighter with a quarterstaff or spear, with GFB would be able to OA something that moves into your reach, and past level 5, that makes quite a nasty OA hit. I tend to prefer BB for that niche application, but for /general/ use I generally prefer GFB to BB on an EK.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I generally don't reply to these, but I'm playing an EK right now and you're assertion that GFB/BB aren't worth it is in error IMO.
The problem with Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade is that they limit you to only one attack per action, so from level 5 onwards you probably don't want to use them on most of your turns.
At level 7 you get War Magic and you can cast a cantrip and get your second swing in as well, so you are actually gaining damage. It's not until you can swing a third time that you really start to have hard choices to make.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There are many circumstances where GFB plus an attack as a bonus action can actually deal more damage to a single target than three normal weapon attacks. It depends on your weapon's damage die and how much of a damage bonus you're getting.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like having a selection of saving throw hits too... on my first level of Wiz I took Create Bonfire, Lightning Lure. I just couldn't resist the combo of having a bonfire going and dragging someone into it.. even if it HAS Been very situational. Taking Firebolt at 1st level with the arcane initiate gave me a decent long range attack.. something that I really wanted. Nothing annoys me more than chucking javelins at 30ft max w/out disadvantage, or having to juggle a bow or crossbow. To me the whole thing with a 'good' caster is versatility.. I didn't build this guy to be the best at any one thing.. he's just able to do something useful in almost any situation.
I like having a selection of saving throw hits too... on my first level of Wiz I took Create Bonfire, Lightning Lure. I just couldn't resist the combo of having a bonfire going and dragging someone into it.. even if it HAS Been very situational. Taking Firebolt at 1st level with the arcane initiate gave me a decent long range attack.. something that I really wanted. Nothing annoys me more than chucking javelins at 30ft max w/out disadvantage, or having to juggle a bow or crossbow. To me the whole thing with a 'good' caster is versatility.. I didn't build this guy to be the best at any one thing.. he's just able to do something useful in almost any situation.
I completely agree with you here. Unless I have a certain goal, such as being able to use PAM -> Warcaster to OA everything that comes into range, while using a melee cantrip I really like the idea of having a ranged attack cantrip. There are a few ways to do it, namely high elf magic or magic initiate via vhuman, but I really prefer to have more then just two cantrips. For an EK, a 1 level wizard dip is not out of the question for me as that provides a /lot/ of utility.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The protection fighting style is decent in lower levels if you have an ally who consistently stands by you while you're equipped with a shield...but for the EK that isn't ideal. Many spells require a free hand to cast, so if you have a weapon and shield, you won't be able to cast those; same issue for material components.
It gets a lot easier once you have the War Caster feat; doubly so with a ruby of the war mage.
As for a magical protector-style class, I feel clerics and paladins are better kitted for that. Both classes get spells and abilities tailored to protecting others and they specifically can have their shields bear their holy symbols, easing the spell components issue.
I agree with the above. if Tasha's fighting styles are allowed though, you could go for something similar with the interception fighting style however. It doesn't require a shield, and instead of giving an attack against an ally disadvantage, it reduces the damage they take.
Still takes your reaction though, so it would mean not being able to cast shield or absorb elements on yourself or make opportunity attacks on the same round, so I'd consider if it's really worth it compared to getting a boost to your AC or one of the weapon based ones.
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No turtling. We ran out and fought the dragon until we got hurt, then ran back into the Hut to get some healing before we ran out again. But that hut saved two of our lives.
Also helped that we had were well equipped. One of us had a Ring of lightning resistance (blue dragon). It was night and our cleric was a Cleric of Twilight Domain (UA), so he could see better than the dragon and managed to share it with our archer.
I used a portent to make my save and survive the electricity, after I had already used my Shield to protect myself from his minions.
I'd point out that the description of the spell states that it ends early if the caster leaves the hut.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It also only has a duration of 8 hours, the dragon could have simply waited them out or used it's time intelligently to batter them when the spell ends
We did make a mistake on me leaving the hut. But the rest of the party was fine doing with the pop out and in strategy.
As for waiting us out, that is silly. Our entire plan was to use it as temporary shelter for the wounded. The fighter types went out and kicked the dragon's butt. Waiting us out = get yourself killed while we prep our deadliest spell. Oh dragon, you are waiting here for me to cast Greater invisibility on the Rogue? Thanks.
The main point was that Absorb Element does an OK job for 1 round while there are LOTS of better ways to deal with that situation. Shield however is a top 10 spell, on par with Misty Step, Counterspell, or Banishment.
My bad, I have only played and run Tier 1 games in 5th ed, in the versions I am used to Dragons were able to cast spells. So a simple dispel magic, or any of a number of other options would be available. When/Why did they remove dragon spell casting?
Dragon casting is now a variant rule- some get spells per the sidebar on page 86 of the Monster Manual. But even without spellcasting, dragons are smart and cunning, there are lot of things one could have done once if found the Tiny Hut besides just taking shots at whomever popped their head out and letting them drain its HP. But that's not really on topic here.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
1st reply!
Not to egg the conversation on, but my experience with Absorb Elements has been a positive one, both in roleplay and fights. Yes there may be one-time uses of AE, such as when my party's wild-magic sorcerer fireballed herself and nearly killed the entire team (except me and the barbarian). However, though using up a limited spell-slot for a limited spell-casting class, AE has also allowed me as a fighter to take a potentially massive elemental-hit at 1/2 damage, then return the favour at +1d6 damage to 1 of my multitude of attacks. There are opportunities for this to be of use, much like any spell. That being said shield is a great life-saver for general purposes, and last until your next turn starts, the fact that both are reaction spells speaks volumes for an EK, that shouldn't be overlooked. Especially when making a melee/defensive EK rather than blaster EK. Quite frankly I am glad to have both spells in my roster. I'd say pay attention to your DM's choice of baddies and work into your character's experiences/history.
As for the original topic, cantrips:
Lightning Lure: be careful, it's a challenge spell not an attack spell. Their strength vs your intellegence, if your stat is low be wary. I failed multiple times to pull the large demon into the lava pit between us, but I did pull a fish-folk off a hydra, smacking his face into the side of the boat. Also it was mentioned in earlier comments that you don't shock them unless within 5 feet... keep in mind it's a 15foot range spell that pulls them 10feet closer, which makes them within 5 feet of you. (DM may allow someone within 5 feet to be pulled 5 feet past you, an interesting choice when cliffs are presentt ;) ) Essentially, it's useful on the weak or spell-casters.
Shocking grasp: great for hit & run, and useful at level 7 when you can shock, run, and attack someone new
Booming blade: Damn I wish I knew about these ones when I chose my cantrips, it would flow so nicely with the level 7 feature of cantrip + weapon attack. Scaling damage of a rarely resisted element? Yes please. GFB is also useful. Both not-so much if there's only 1 or they don't feel like moving.
(keep in mind the following mean less attacks/turn at higher levels)
Prestidigitation: utility for out-of fights, which let's be honest fighters don't do much unless fighting. So EK with this as an option to keep you active in the game.
Mold earth: So many possibilities for environment management in/out of fights.
My experience with Absorb Elements has been quite good last week in particular we had a fight with five Ankheg’s there were six of us so of coarse they used acid spray and I was in the line for all five used AE and tanked them like the EK I was also my EK is strength based so yer I failed the dex saves
Personally I went with Blade Ward and Fire Bolt, matching defense and offense with my cantrips. After level 7, Blade Ward shines in situations where you have a heavy hitting enemy. In the party I've been with, we had no magic coverage other than me. That means no counterspells - so absorb energy has been my saving grace a number of times. The best spells for an EK depend entirely on how you play your knight, and what the party can do to support him or her. So take a look at your potential spells with that in mind and you'll pick the right ones for you.
I generally don't reply to these, but I'm playing an EK right now and you're assertion that GFB/BB aren't worth it is in error IMO. My character isn't a direct corollary to what you're doing since I multi-classed into Wizard 2 levels (so far) to get the insanely powerful abilities that War Wizard grant. I wanted to break from the pack and went with (point buy) ST and INT as my highest stats, I even took magic initiate at level 1 as a variant human so I could feel more like an actual EK from level one up. Familiar for my level 1 so I basically have advantage on every single attack I make (until the DM decides to waste an attack to kill it) is pure gold at low level. I also took Firebolt and GFB as my cantrips and both performed admirably. After starting at a fighter, I took 2 levels of Wiz to get War Wizard and have progressed the rest so far with Fighter.
Back to what I was saying... the ability as a front line fighter to pop off Acid Stream or Burning Hands.. then Action Surge to whack away with GFB... absolute gold. I've done 70-80 damage in the first round as a 5th level character and taken 1-2 bad guys out. I ended the fight not having taken a single point of damage, using my 4 1st level spell slots as shield/absorb elements charges. Acid Stream is probably too powerful for 1st level really.. 30 ft long damage stream.. and if they fail they auto take damage every turn for a min unless they take an entire turn to clean themselves of the acid? Talk about crowd control for a front line fighter!
I don't want to make this too long.. but I wanted to mention that even at lower levels, once you have action surge you can take 2 mob out in 1 round pretty easy.. GFB left guy.. splash the right.. action surge and do the opposite. I did it more than once at level 4 (when I got my 2nd level fighter).
The problem with Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade is that they limit you to only one attack per action, so from level 5 onwards you probably don't want to use them on most of your turns. If you're planning to take War Caster though then they can also be used with attacks of opportunity which is pretty cool. With the bonus effects you can sometimes still justify the loss of attacks, for example if you can hit a low AC enemy with GFB and direct the bonus damage onto a high AC enemy next to them (who you might have missed with a separate extra attack) then that's like a free hit, while Booming Blade is handy for trying to stop an enemy from moving, though I feel like the damage isn't really good enough for how situational it is. They're definitely not bad options, but I think if you have a party member who can buff your attacks (e.g- War Cleric) then that combo will be a lot better at higher levels.
Personally I prefer cantrips that force saving throws rather than using attack rolls; this gives you options against enemies with high AC, and can be used within melee range without penalty, and some of them have decent range which is ideal if you're not playing a DEX build so can't just use a (cross)bow.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Personally, assuming I did not take arcane initiate at level 1, I'm probably going to pickup greenflame blade and either ray of frost or firebolt. I've been caught too many times where I /needed/ some ranged capability and did not have it. Generally speaking I prefer the RoF slow to FB's extra range and slightly higher damage, but that's personal preference. Most players take FB and do not look back.
GFB is extremely useful, especially until you can make a third attack/round. I prefer it to BB on a fighter, because my groups rarely seem to get opportunities for the extra damage to proc. For other classes, my opinion would be different. With warcaster, the ability to scale any OA you can make up would be nice. For example, a PAM fighter with a quarterstaff or spear, with GFB would be able to OA something that moves into your reach, and past level 5, that makes quite a nasty OA hit. I tend to prefer BB for that niche application, but for /general/ use I generally prefer GFB to BB on an EK.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
At level 7 you get War Magic and you can cast a cantrip and get your second swing in as well, so you are actually gaining damage. It's not until you can swing a third time that you really start to have hard choices to make.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
There are many circumstances where GFB plus an attack as a bonus action can actually deal more damage to a single target than three normal weapon attacks. It depends on your weapon's damage die and how much of a damage bonus you're getting.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like having a selection of saving throw hits too... on my first level of Wiz I took Create Bonfire, Lightning Lure. I just couldn't resist the combo of having a bonfire going and dragging someone into it.. even if it HAS Been very situational. Taking Firebolt at 1st level with the arcane initiate gave me a decent long range attack.. something that I really wanted. Nothing annoys me more than chucking javelins at 30ft max w/out disadvantage, or having to juggle a bow or crossbow. To me the whole thing with a 'good' caster is versatility.. I didn't build this guy to be the best at any one thing.. he's just able to do something useful in almost any situation.
I completely agree with you here. Unless I have a certain goal, such as being able to use PAM -> Warcaster to OA everything that comes into range, while using a melee cantrip I really like the idea of having a ranged attack cantrip. There are a few ways to do it, namely high elf magic or magic initiate via vhuman, but I really prefer to have more then just two cantrips. For an EK, a 1 level wizard dip is not out of the question for me as that provides a /lot/ of utility.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
is protection good as a specialization?
The protection fighting style is decent in lower levels if you have an ally who consistently stands by you while you're equipped with a shield...but for the EK that isn't ideal. Many spells require a free hand to cast, so if you have a weapon and shield, you won't be able to cast those; same issue for material components.
It gets a lot easier once you have the War Caster feat; doubly so with a ruby of the war mage.
As for a magical protector-style class, I feel clerics and paladins are better kitted for that. Both classes get spells and abilities tailored to protecting others and they specifically can have their shields bear their holy symbols, easing the spell components issue.
I agree with the above. if Tasha's fighting styles are allowed though, you could go for something similar with the interception fighting style however. It doesn't require a shield, and instead of giving an attack against an ally disadvantage, it reduces the damage they take.
Still takes your reaction though, so it would mean not being able to cast shield or absorb elements on yourself or make opportunity attacks on the same round, so I'd consider if it's really worth it compared to getting a boost to your AC or one of the weapon based ones.