So with Tasha's being out we can finally build a strength based unarmed fighter. So I was thinking I'd like to hear people's suggestions on how you would best pull it off... I'll just list the thoughts I have been having
So I have a few preferences myself... I really can't get to terms with the idea if a Bruiser character fist fighting in full armour.. so I would probably use the Loxodon as a my go to race.. not only do they have natural con based armor.. they also have powerful build which is very thematic for a towering heap of muscle. Thee trunk feature also has the benefit of grappling and still getting to use a d8 for damage rolls which is neat.
Class is where it gets i interesting. Fighter as the core class seems obvious to me... Subclass almost has to be battlemaster.. rune knight has a cool growth mechanic.. but most of the runes don't lend themselves to a fist fighting brute theme.
I think my biggest doubt comes from multiclassing choices.. I'm thinking lvl 1 dip into monk would give us a consistent bonus action attack..where as a barbarian dip gives rage and could open the door for other races because if unarmoured defense (purely personal preference of me hating the idea of someone fighting with their fists using heavy armour)
Any level dip would have to be small since we dont wanna be kept from that sweet lvl 11 extra attack
Something I've never quite understood with 5e. Is his martial characters are supposed to scale in damage output without feats like great weapon master.. or some powerful weapon.
For an unarmed that feat is obviously not viable.. so I was thinking fey touched for hunters mark could be useful... Sort of "I'm gonna get you" deal.. doesn't feel very magical and it would work well with a lot if attacks
Those are my Initial thoughts.. feel free to share your ideas
I think in terms of base damage you're not really disadvantaged; Fighters already get at least 3 attacks for most builds so you're not really reliant on feats to do solid damage. You are however going to trail a bit due to the lack of any suitable magic weapons.
Personally I wouldn't bother too much about trying to do more damage, I'd go more towards tank; if you don't think heavy armour fits the theme then take at least one level in Barbarian for Unarmored Defence and Rage, probably two for Reckless Attack as well, or even three and go Bear Totem or maybe Zealot? If your DM is kind enough to account for your lack of suitable magic weapons, then you can fish for Bracers of Defense and/or Ring of Protection to be a solid DM's damage rolls denial character.
Barbarian is also good for the advantage it gives you on grappling; nothing about being unarmed requires that but it fits the theme well if you're tanking by simply not letting an enemy get away from you, though you could consider Sentinel instead for the ability to stop them without having to enter a grapple first. Tavern Brawler is weaker since you don't need the extra damage, but you still get the ability to restrain an enemy, which is ideal if someone else in your party deals more damage overall (e.g- a Paladin).
There's definitely a lot of options that should work, I think it could be fun to play for much more of a brawler compared to the hyper mobile martial arts of a Monk; in fact I think it could be really fun to have both in a party.
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The best thing you can do as STR-based unarmed fighter is to grapple people so the rest of your party pummel a them with advantage. For that I recommend either Eldritch Knight for Enlrdge spell or Runke Knight for notally-not-Enlarga ability, so you'd have both advantage on str checks without multiclassing into Barbarian and the size to grapple huge creatuwes. As EC you can also cast Jump on yourself so you could weaponize your goddamned MOVEMENT, not only action and bonus action by jumping up and hurling people you grapple with both arms into the ground, than landing on them, then kicking them with advantage while they're down.
The best thing you can do as STR-based unarmed fighter is to grapple people so the rest of your party pummel a them with advantage.
Being grappled doesn't do that, it just reduces the enemy to speed 0; to give the party advantage you need Tavern Brawler so your grapples can also restrain your target.
Grappled is actually a strange choice of word, though there aren't many good alternatives; I tend to think of grappling as just grabbing someone and having the strength to keep them where you are. Grappling makes it sound more like wrestling, restraining or pinning someone which it isn't without further bonuses; that said, if someone in your party can knock an enemy prone then if you grapple them they can't get up unless they escape your grapple first (you can't stand up from prone with 0 movement).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Being grappled doesn't do that, it just reduces the enemy to speed 0; to give the party advantage you need Tavern Brawler so your grapples can also restrain your target.
Yes, but being prone does, and you can grapple an opponent with one attack and force him prone with a shove action instead of another attack. Then your Rogue shanks him in the kidney for ungodly amount of damage. An if he's still alive he can only try to get out of your grapple, and even if he succeeds (very unlikely if you have proficiency in Athletics) he's still prone. I've seen dragons being pinned to the ground for the whole fight by a Barbarian on Portion of Enlarge way too many times.
How do you guys feel about the 1 lvl monk dip ? It seems to me that we'll be lacking a bonus action most of the time.. and what's more thematic than punching again ?
For magic item I think trying to get the Eldrich claw tattoo would be great
I agree that ek for enlarge is very interesting.. but I think battlemaster offers more interesting things to do ?
You could definitely go for a tanking focus but I imagine a brawler character to be mainly pinning one enemy down and just beating them to death.. so I do think we need a decent damage output.
we definitely wanna be shoving and grappling a lot.. really bullly the enemies
There's of course also the option of makin a mostly barbarian build.. but then this would be the wrong subforum 😅
To be fair, it wou'ld work best if you fight small teams or enemies or solo monsters, not the hordes of enemies. Wasting a turn to wrestle down and pin one skeletomn out of the twenty you're fighting on level 5 is just that - wasting a turn. So you'd better consult with GM before trying it.
I would recommend a simple vanilla build: vHuman for Skill Expert (Athletics) and start as a Barbarian for greater HP, just one single level. Then go full Fighter Battlemaster and never go back. Get Unarmed Fighting Style and the new Grappling Strike maneuver.
Shove your enemy with your main attack and trigger the Grappling Strike maneuver with your bonus action. He will be prone and grappled. Follow-up with regular unarmed 1d8 attacks, don’t forget Action Surge, and just to be sure he will never escape from you, use Menacing Attack.
We had a minotaur battlemaster in our Theros campaign who dipped one level rogue for expertise athletics. Pair that with a belt of giant's might and you get a ridiculously high contested Athletics roll.
You then grapple and use your horn attack (our DM was nice enough to give him +1 Horn Caps).
He also had a shield and shieldmaster. Was absurdly effective.
Sounds like a sick build. Great thematic portrayal of a minotaur through its combat style.
Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Barbarians and the odd Rogue dip all seem like great ways to build this bruiser.
But my vote is for the Rune Knight. Concentration free large size with advantage on athletics, easy access to unarmed fighting style, and a plethora of abilities (many of them passive bonuses) that expand your toolkit way beyond your average hulking brute. No matter how good you get at grappling there will be ample situations in which it is less than ideal or simply ineffective. I think it's really important to have other modes of interaction besides grappling to cover this weakness and the Rune Knight delivers.
Plus I love the concept of this bastard man of the mountain that pieces together a living as a traveler among the orc, goblin, hobgoblin, dwarf and goliath communities. Using secrets learned from exploring Giant ruins, he's managed to survive despite his propensity for drink and a good fist fight.
So I just created a Bruiser Fighter for a one shot I played this last Sunday. Was amazing close range unit. Very Simple build for the Level 5 fighter that I played and we were allowed 1 uncommon magic item and 1 rare, but the uncommon is the only one I'll talk about for this build.
Race - Variant Human
Feat - Skill Expert: choose Athletics to give Expertise and Strength Increase
ASI - Strength and Con
Archetype - Rune Knight Lvl. 5
Fighting Style - Unarmed Strikes
ASI - Strength
Uncommon Magic Item - Eldritch Claw Tattoo
So with this build we did roll stats so I started with a 16 in Strength so by level 4 I had a 20. My Athletic Checks had a +11, my strikes were +9 and damage was 1d8+6. First thing every combat was bonus action Giant's might, get in close and grapple the sucker. You have advantage on all strength checks so you roll to grapple with Advantage. Didn't have a single enemy that could escape my grappled and just wailed on them every turn, doing 1d8+1d6+6 damage with each punch.
So I just created a Bruiser Fighter for a one shot I played this last Sunday. Was amazing close range unit. Very Simple build for the Level 5 fighter that I played and we were allowed 1 uncommon magic item and 1 rare, but the uncommon is the only one I'll talk about for this build.
Race - Variant Human
Feat - Skill Expert: choose Athletics to give Expertise and Strength Increase
ASI - Strength and Con
Archetype - Rune Knight Lvl. 5
Fighting Style - Unarmed Strikes
ASI - Strength
Uncommon Magic Item - Eldritch Claw Tattoo
So with this build we did roll stats so I started with a 16 in Strength so by level 4 I had a 20. My Athletic Checks had a +11, my strikes were +9 and damage was 1d8+6. First thing every combat was bonus action Giant's might, get in close and grapple the sucker. You have advantage on all strength checks so you roll to grapple with Advantage. Didn't have a single enemy that could escape my grappled and just wailed on them every turn, doing 1d8+1d6+6 damage with each punch.
That's almost exactly what I was thinking.. I still think im a bigger of fan battlemaster vs rune knight.. rune knight only has one (admittedly really good) thing that plays into a bruiser character, where as the battlemaster has a lot of optinos that fit the role.. I'm thinking a 1 lvl barb dip for rage.. But yea.. Skill expert for expertise in athletics is very much on my radar aswell..
I think prodigy should be considered on Rune Knight bruisers because they can make use of the extra skill and tool proficiencies. I'd probably favor it for any RK bruiser that doesn't have an odd strength to increase with skill expert.
Was really excited for Tasha's to build a character like this with beserker barbarian and battlemaster, though the (slight) nerfs to unarmed fighting style and restraining (grappling) strike have dampened it a little.
DM dependant, but quite tempted by beast barbarian6/ rune knight 3 though. Barbarian for unarmed defence and claw attacks plus (dm allowing) the increased jump height can be used to inflict fall damage on an enemy and inflict prone with out loosing an attack which makes up a little for nonlonger being able to restrain off an attack and a bonus action. Rune knight lets you grapple larger creatures (though requires a turn of set up) plus frost rune lets you add +2 to grapple checks and jump height, fire rune might also be nice to occasionally restrain a foe even if it is less reliable.
P. S if you cant guess I'm really sore at losing restraining strike :-P
Was really excited for Tasha's to build a character like this with beserker barbarian and battlemaster, though the (slight) nerfs to unarmed fighting style and restraining (grappling) strike have dampened it a little.
DM dependant, but quite tempted by beast barbarian6/ rune knight 3 though. Barbarian for unarmed defence and claw attacks plus (dm allowing) the increased jump height can be used to inflict fall damage on an enemy and inflict prone with out loosing an attack which makes up a little for nonlonger being able to restrain off an attack and a bonus action. Rune knight lets you grapple larger creatures (though requires a turn of set up) plus frost rune lets you add +2 to grapple checks and jump height, fire rune might also be nice to occasionally restrain a foe even if it is less reliable.
P. S if you cant guess I'm really sore at losing restraining strike :-P
Yea I honestly don't think the unarmed fighting style needed the nerf.. Considering that other fighting styles give a +2 to either hit chances or damage every attack, I don't see why a d4 vs grappled enemies is at all overpowered.. Not to mention that unarmed strikes don't have any feats simlar to sharpshooter or GWM to boost them either.. But atleast we get a decent damage die.
So with Tasha's being out we can finally build a strength based unarmed fighter. So I was thinking I'd like to hear people's suggestions on how you would best pull it off... I'll just list the thoughts I have been having
So I have a few preferences myself... I really can't get to terms with the idea if a Bruiser character fist fighting in full armour.. so I would probably use the Loxodon as a my go to race.. not only do they have natural con based armor.. they also have powerful build which is very thematic for a towering heap of muscle. Thee trunk feature also has the benefit of grappling and still getting to use a d8 for damage rolls which is neat.
Class is where it gets i interesting. Fighter as the core class seems obvious to me... Subclass almost has to be battlemaster.. rune knight has a cool growth mechanic.. but most of the runes don't lend themselves to a fist fighting brute theme.
I think my biggest doubt comes from multiclassing choices.. I'm thinking lvl 1 dip into monk would give us a consistent bonus action attack..where as a barbarian dip gives rage and could open the door for other races because if unarmoured defense (purely personal preference of me hating the idea of someone fighting with their fists using heavy armour)
Any level dip would have to be small since we dont wanna be kept from that sweet lvl 11 extra attack
Something I've never quite understood with 5e. Is his martial characters are supposed to scale in damage output without feats like great weapon master.. or some powerful weapon.
For an unarmed that feat is obviously not viable.. so I was thinking fey touched for hunters mark could be useful... Sort of "I'm gonna get you" deal.. doesn't feel very magical and it would work well with a lot if attacks
Those are my Initial thoughts.. feel free to share your ideas
I think in terms of base damage you're not really disadvantaged; Fighters already get at least 3 attacks for most builds so you're not really reliant on feats to do solid damage. You are however going to trail a bit due to the lack of any suitable magic weapons.
Personally I wouldn't bother too much about trying to do more damage, I'd go more towards tank; if you don't think heavy armour fits the theme then take at least one level in Barbarian for Unarmored Defence and Rage, probably two for Reckless Attack as well, or even three and go Bear Totem or maybe Zealot? If your DM is kind enough to account for your lack of suitable magic weapons, then you can fish for Bracers of Defense and/or Ring of Protection to be a solid DM's damage rolls denial character.
Barbarian is also good for the advantage it gives you on grappling; nothing about being unarmed requires that but it fits the theme well if you're tanking by simply not letting an enemy get away from you, though you could consider Sentinel instead for the ability to stop them without having to enter a grapple first. Tavern Brawler is weaker since you don't need the extra damage, but you still get the ability to restrain an enemy, which is ideal if someone else in your party deals more damage overall (e.g- a Paladin).
There's definitely a lot of options that should work, I think it could be fun to play for much more of a brawler compared to the hyper mobile martial arts of a Monk; in fact I think it could be really fun to have both in a party.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The best thing you can do as STR-based unarmed fighter is to grapple people so the rest of your party pummel a them with advantage. For that I recommend either Eldritch Knight for Enlrdge spell or Runke Knight for notally-not-Enlarga ability, so you'd have both advantage on str checks without multiclassing into Barbarian and the size to grapple huge creatuwes. As EC you can also cast Jump on yourself so you could weaponize your goddamned MOVEMENT, not only action and bonus action by jumping up and hurling people you grapple with both arms into the ground, than landing on them, then kicking them with advantage while they're down.
Being grappled doesn't do that, it just reduces the enemy to speed 0; to give the party advantage you need Tavern Brawler so your grapples can also restrain your target.
Grappled is actually a strange choice of word, though there aren't many good alternatives; I tend to think of grappling as just grabbing someone and having the strength to keep them where you are. Grappling makes it sound more like wrestling, restraining or pinning someone which it isn't without further bonuses; that said, if someone in your party can knock an enemy prone then if you grapple them they can't get up unless they escape your grapple first (you can't stand up from prone with 0 movement).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Yes, but being prone does, and you can grapple an opponent with one attack and force him prone with a shove action instead of another attack. Then your Rogue shanks him in the kidney for ungodly amount of damage. An if he's still alive he can only try to get out of your grapple, and even if he succeeds (very unlikely if you have proficiency in Athletics) he's still prone. I've seen dragons being pinned to the ground for the whole fight by a Barbarian on Portion of Enlarge way too many times.
How do you guys feel about the 1 lvl monk dip ? It seems to me that we'll be lacking a bonus action most of the time.. and what's more thematic than punching again ?
For magic item I think trying to get the Eldrich claw tattoo would be great
I agree that ek for enlarge is very interesting.. but I think battlemaster offers more interesting things to do ?
You could definitely go for a tanking focus but I imagine a brawler character to be mainly pinning one enemy down and just beating them to death.. so I do think we need a decent damage output.
we definitely wanna be shoving and grappling a lot.. really bullly the enemies
There's of course also the option of makin a mostly barbarian build.. but then this would be the wrong subforum 😅
To be fair, it wou'ld work best if you fight small teams or enemies or solo monsters, not the hordes of enemies. Wasting a turn to wrestle down and pin one skeletomn out of the twenty you're fighting on level 5 is just that - wasting a turn. So you'd better consult with GM before trying it.
Sure :) Doesn't have to be effective in all situations.. just has to be great at overpowering people.
I would recommend a simple vanilla build: vHuman for Skill Expert (Athletics) and start as a Barbarian for greater HP, just one single level. Then go full Fighter Battlemaster and never go back. Get Unarmed Fighting Style and the new Grappling Strike maneuver.
Shove your enemy with your main attack and trigger the Grappling Strike maneuver with your bonus action. He will be prone and grappled. Follow-up with regular unarmed 1d8 attacks, don’t forget Action Surge, and just to be sure he will never escape from you, use Menacing Attack.
You’ll be the creator of UFC in Forgotten Realms.
We had a minotaur battlemaster in our Theros campaign who dipped one level rogue for expertise athletics. Pair that with a belt of giant's might and you get a ridiculously high contested Athletics roll.
You then grapple and use your horn attack (our DM was nice enough to give him +1 Horn Caps).
He also had a shield and shieldmaster. Was absurdly effective.
Would the minotaur horns get the d8 damage ? That would be pretty spicy.
Sounds like a sick build. Great thematic portrayal of a minotaur through its combat style.
Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Barbarians and the odd Rogue dip all seem like great ways to build this bruiser.
But my vote is for the Rune Knight. Concentration free large size with advantage on athletics, easy access to unarmed fighting style, and a plethora of abilities (many of them passive bonuses) that expand your toolkit way beyond your average hulking brute. No matter how good you get at grappling there will be ample situations in which it is less than ideal or simply ineffective. I think it's really important to have other modes of interaction besides grappling to cover this weakness and the Rune Knight delivers.
Plus I love the concept of this bastard man of the mountain that pieces together a living as a traveler among the orc, goblin, hobgoblin, dwarf and goliath communities. Using secrets learned from exploring Giant ruins, he's managed to survive despite his propensity for drink and a good fist fight.
So I just created a Bruiser Fighter for a one shot I played this last Sunday. Was amazing close range unit. Very Simple build for the Level 5 fighter that I played and we were allowed 1 uncommon magic item and 1 rare, but the uncommon is the only one I'll talk about for this build.
So with this build we did roll stats so I started with a 16 in Strength so by level 4 I had a 20. My Athletic Checks had a +11, my strikes were +9 and damage was 1d8+6. First thing every combat was bonus action Giant's might, get in close and grapple the sucker. You have advantage on all strength checks so you roll to grapple with Advantage. Didn't have a single enemy that could escape my grappled and just wailed on them every turn, doing 1d8+1d6+6 damage with each punch.
That's almost exactly what I was thinking.. I still think im a bigger of fan battlemaster vs rune knight.. rune knight only has one (admittedly really good) thing that plays into a bruiser character, where as the battlemaster has a lot of optinos that fit the role.. I'm thinking a 1 lvl barb dip for rage.. But yea.. Skill expert for expertise in athletics is very much on my radar aswell..
I think prodigy should be considered on Rune Knight bruisers because they can make use of the extra skill and tool proficiencies. I'd probably favor it for any RK bruiser that doesn't have an odd strength to increase with skill expert.
Was really excited for Tasha's to build a character like this with beserker barbarian and battlemaster, though the (slight) nerfs to unarmed fighting style and restraining (grappling) strike have dampened it a little.
DM dependant, but quite tempted by beast barbarian6/ rune knight 3 though. Barbarian for unarmed defence and claw attacks plus (dm allowing) the increased jump height can be used to inflict fall damage on an enemy and inflict prone with out loosing an attack which makes up a little for nonlonger being able to restrain off an attack and a bonus action. Rune knight lets you grapple larger creatures (though requires a turn of set up) plus frost rune lets you add +2 to grapple checks and jump height, fire rune might also be nice to occasionally restrain a foe even if it is less reliable.
P. S if you cant guess I'm really sore at losing restraining strike :-P
Yea I honestly don't think the unarmed fighting style needed the nerf.. Considering that other fighting styles give a +2 to either hit chances or damage every attack, I don't see why a d4 vs grappled enemies is at all overpowered.. Not to mention that unarmed strikes don't have any feats simlar to sharpshooter or GWM to boost them either.. But atleast we get a decent damage die.