According to Jeremy Crawford, NO... they dont stack.
At most tables I have played, the DM'S HAVE allowed it to for monks, but it's not how the designers intended it to.
I think the reasoning is that while a +3 for a melee class that can't use a shield like the monk is nice... it can easily be ground breaking for a Barbarian who CAN use a shield on top of this.
If this is the case it sucks for the Bladesinger unarmored Defense. What's the point of a Wizard arch type that get Unarmored Defense that does not stack with his spells? Having abilities of the same class not stack is a little strange.
That's the official rules clarification on calculating Armor Class. Short version: You can benefit from one thing that calculates your AC, and multiple things that add to your AC, but you can't benefit from multiple copies of the same thing that adds to your AC.
I don't know if it is the best, but here are a few:
Eldritch Knight fighter with defense fighting style, warcaster and a 1-level Cleric dip - 28 with plate, shield, shield of faith and shield spell.
Bladesinger - 24 at level 2, 25 at level 4, 27 at level 5, 29 at level 12 running mage armor, bladesong and shield spell along with Haste at level 5+.
Half-Elf Monk with 2-level Bladesinger dip - 24 at level 3, 25 at level 4, 26 at level 8, 27 at level 12.
Of these the single class bladesinger will "play" the highest after level 5 because she has the spell slots to spam shield and other defensive spells like blur and PEG that cause disadvantage without increasing AC. Before level 5 The Eldritch knight will keep up due to limited uses of bladesong.
Highest from a single sorc that I know of is bladesinger in +3 studed leather with 20 dex and 20 int hast and shield. This comes to 30 or 35 with 3/4 cover. With help you get 32 to 37 with shield of faith. This assumes no magic items to go over 20 in a stat and you don't have a defender rapier
If this is the case it sucks for the Bladesinger unarmored Defense. What's the point of a Wizard arch type that get Unarmored Defense that does not stack with his spells? Having abilities of the same class not stack is a little strange.
It can't stack with Mage Armor but unarmored defense DOES work with bladesong, shield of defense, shield or any other spell/ability that give a BONUS to AC. Mage Armor does not give a bonus, that is why it doesn't stack
Mage Armor is not a +3 bonus to AC, it is an entirely different way of calculating AC. Same with unarmored defense (both Monk and Barbarian) - these are not a wisdom and con bonus to AC respectively, it is an entirely different way of calculating AC.
Think of it this way: Asking to stack Mage Armor and Unarmored defense is like asking to stack Plate and Scale Mail or asking why a Barbarian can't stack unarmored defense with half-plate . You are mixing different ways of calculating AC.
Ways to calculate AC:
1. 10 +/-dex bonus (no armor)
2. Light Armor AC +/- dex bonus
3. Medium armor AC +/- Dex Bonus up to 2 (up to +3 with medium armor master)
Those are the ones I can think of there may be others. Once you figure out your AC from one of the above methods you add any modifiers or bonuses from anything else like shields, spells, abilities etc. Some things preclude certain bonuses being added, for example Monk unarmored defense precludes using a shield.
In this respect Mage Armor stacks with anything that provides a BONUS to AC. So any of the spells above, bracers of defense, ring of protection, bladesong a shield or anything else that gives a bonus.
Likewise Monk's unarmored defense stacks with anything that provides a bonus EXCEPT a shield (because the rules specifically preclude it). So again any of the spells above, any magic items that provide a bonus, bladesong ....
Mage armor and unarmored defense are both ways of calculating your AC.
According to the rules:
Some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use.
I believe it should stack, the mage armor spell changes the base AC and does not count as armor so why wouldn't it not stake with unarmored defense?
Because Mage Armor "calculates" your AC, just like Unarmored Defense does. Both the spell and the feature set a value, they don't add to your existing AC. Items/effects/etc that say they add a bonus to your AC can be stacked onto a "calculated" AC, as long as you meet the requirements for those items/effects/etc. For example, a Monk making use of Unarmored Defense cannot use a shield, but a Barbarian's Unarmored Defense allows one. Both of them could gain the benefit of a set of Bracers Of Defense, but the Barbarian would have to give up the shield, since the Bracers won't work if he has one(the bonus is the same, so the Bracers give him all the benefits of a shield while leaving both hands free to swing a Greataxe or other two-handed weapon).
HERE is a page with a link to the current Sage Advice compendium, a collection of official answers about rules questions that have come up since the books were published. These aren't just someone like Jeremy Crawford tweeting out what the intent of a rule was, these are official addendums to the rules. There is a section near the beginning that discusses how to calculate a character's AC.
10 is the base AC, mage armor changes the base to 13, it does not change how to calculate the AC. A fighter says nothing about Ac but add armor and he has AC that fourmula then is armore AC +sheild +dex if not heavy, so if you want to talk about bonuses VS calculating AC every time you add a bonous it changes the calculation . or let me put it this way sheild ac is 2 making it a plus1 sheild makes the sheild effect on ac a 3 but the base is set at 2 and since we can not chamge the base as thats what mage armor does. also if we take the armor off the fighter whats his AC should be 0 right as nothing is mentiones as a base to start from but all will say 10 as the standers ac is 10 untill it is modafies by a spell like mage armor oe the crowing of scales like a soccorror and the armore a fighet wears sets the AC it does not add to it as writted
10 is the base AC, mage armor changes the base to 13, it does not change how to calculate the AC. A fighter says nothing about Ac but add armor and he has AC that fourmula then is armore AC +sheild +dex if not heavy, so if you want to talk about bonuses VS calculating AC every time you add a bonous it changes the calculation . or let me put it this way sheild ac is 2 making it a plus1 sheild makes the sheild effect on ac a 3 but the base is set at 2 and since we can not chamge the base as thats what mage armor does. also if we take the armor off the fighter whats his AC should be 0 right as nothing is mentiones as a base to start from but all will say 10 as the standers ac is 10 untill it is modafies by a spell like mage armor oe the crowing of scales like a soccorror and the armore a fighet wears sets the AC it does not add to it as writted
Taking armor off of anyone does not put their AC to 0, fighter or otherwise, unless there is some abysmal stat manipulations occurring. Base AC is, per the rules in the phb, calculated as 10 + DEX mod without armor or shields, or other items, magic or otherwise. This is the standard, and proficiencies and/or spells alter that, but the calculation is constant.
Mage Armor changes your AC to 13 + DEX mod, like donning a set of armor would do, normally. Hence, being literally in the name, Mage Armor.
Without Mage Armor, the caster's AC reverts back to 10 + DEX mod, not 0.
Taking armor, shield, etc. off of a fighter reverts their AC back to 10 + DEX mod, not 0.
10 is the base AC, mage armor changes the base to 13, it does not change how to calculate the AC.
Per official ruling in the Sage Advice Compendium Mage Armor give you a new way to calculate your AC and thus doesn't work with Unarmed Defense.
Does Unarmored Defense work with a spell like mage armor? Unarmored Defense doesn’t work with mage armor. You might be asking yourself, “Why don’t they work together? Mage armor specifies that it works on a creature who isn’t wearing armor.” It’s true that the target of mage armor must be unarmored, but mage armor gives you a new way to calculate your AC (13 + your Dexterity modifier) and is therefore incompatible with Unarmored Defense or any other feature that provides an AC calculation.
The devs created an situation which punishes Monks and boosts Mages. I think ONE or the other option needs to be settled on: Either its NOT armor, in which case Bladesong, Unarmored Defense, etc work. Or It IS armor and no such features work. I am inclined to allow the stacking. Its just another example of the devs not being consistent for no good reason.
The devs created an situation which punishes Monks and boosts Mages. I think ONE or the other option needs to be settled on: Either its NOT armor, in which case Bladesong, Unarmored Defense, etc work. Or It IS armor and no such features work. I am inclined to allow the stacking. Its just another example of the devs not being consistent for no good reason.
Mage armor works with the new Bladesong in the UA. Mage armor gives an AC calculation and Bladesong adds a bonus of your INT modifier just like a ring of protection would. No conflicts here. Mage armor doesn’t work with unarmored defense because both are AC calculations. But a monk/Bladesinger can add INT to the monks unarmored defense.
See title
According to Jeremy Crawford, NO... they dont stack.
At most tables I have played, the DM'S HAVE allowed it to for monks, but it's not how the designers intended it to.
I think the reasoning is that while a +3 for a melee class that can't use a shield like the monk is nice... it can easily be ground breaking for a Barbarian who CAN use a shield on top of this.
If this is the case it sucks for the Bladesinger unarmored Defense. What's the point of a Wizard arch type that get Unarmored Defense that does not stack with his spells? Having abilities of the same class not stack is a little strange.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-january-2016
That's the official rules clarification on calculating Armor Class. Short version: You can benefit from one thing that calculates your AC, and multiple things that add to your AC, but you can't benefit from multiple copies of the same thing that adds to your AC.
What is the best working combination of AC?
I don't know if it is the best, but here are a few:
Eldritch Knight fighter with defense fighting style, warcaster and a 1-level Cleric dip - 28 with plate, shield, shield of faith and shield spell.
Bladesinger - 24 at level 2, 25 at level 4, 27 at level 5, 29 at level 12 running mage armor, bladesong and shield spell along with Haste at level 5+.
Half-Elf Monk with 2-level Bladesinger dip - 24 at level 3, 25 at level 4, 26 at level 8, 27 at level 12.
Of these the single class bladesinger will "play" the highest after level 5 because she has the spell slots to spam shield and other defensive spells like blur and PEG that cause disadvantage without increasing AC. Before level 5 The Eldritch knight will keep up due to limited uses of bladesong.
Highest from a single sorc that I know of is bladesinger in +3 studed leather with 20 dex and 20 int hast and shield. This comes to 30 or 35 with 3/4 cover. With help you get 32 to 37 with shield of faith. This assumes no magic items to go over 20 in a stat and you don't have a defender rapier
It can't stack with Mage Armor but unarmored defense DOES work with bladesong, shield of defense, shield or any other spell/ability that give a BONUS to AC. Mage Armor does not give a bonus, that is why it doesn't stack
Mage Armor is not a +3 bonus to AC, it is an entirely different way of calculating AC. Same with unarmored defense (both Monk and Barbarian) - these are not a wisdom and con bonus to AC respectively, it is an entirely different way of calculating AC.
Think of it this way: Asking to stack Mage Armor and Unarmored defense is like asking to stack Plate and Scale Mail or asking why a Barbarian can't stack unarmored defense with half-plate . You are mixing different ways of calculating AC.
Ways to calculate AC:
1. 10 +/-dex bonus (no armor)
2. Light Armor AC +/- dex bonus
3. Medium armor AC +/- Dex Bonus up to 2 (up to +3 with medium armor master)
4. Heavy Armor AC
5. Monk unarmored defense 10+Wisdom+/-Dex
6. Barbarian unarmored defense 10+Constitution+/-Dex
7. Dragon sorcerer 13+/-Dex
8. Tortle - 17
9. Mage Armor spell 13+Dex
Those are the ones I can think of there may be others. Once you figure out your AC from one of the above methods you add any modifiers or bonuses from anything else like shields, spells, abilities etc. Some things preclude certain bonuses being added, for example Monk unarmored defense precludes using a shield.
In this respect Mage Armor stacks with anything that provides a BONUS to AC. So any of the spells above, bracers of defense, ring of protection, bladesong a shield or anything else that gives a bonus.
Likewise Monk's unarmored defense stacks with anything that provides a bonus EXCEPT a shield (because the rules specifically preclude it). So again any of the spells above, any magic items that provide a bonus, bladesong ....
I believe it should stack, the mage armor spell changes the base AC and does not count as armor so why wouldn't it not stake with unarmored defense?
Unarmored defense changes the base AC as well.
Mage armor and unarmored defense are both ways of calculating your AC.
According to the rules:
So they don’t stack.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Because Mage Armor "calculates" your AC, just like Unarmored Defense does. Both the spell and the feature set a value, they don't add to your existing AC. Items/effects/etc that say they add a bonus to your AC can be stacked onto a "calculated" AC, as long as you meet the requirements for those items/effects/etc. For example, a Monk making use of Unarmored Defense cannot use a shield, but a Barbarian's Unarmored Defense allows one. Both of them could gain the benefit of a set of Bracers Of Defense, but the Barbarian would have to give up the shield, since the Bracers won't work if he has one(the bonus is the same, so the Bracers give him all the benefits of a shield while leaving both hands free to swing a Greataxe or other two-handed weapon).
HERE is a page with a link to the current Sage Advice compendium, a collection of official answers about rules questions that have come up since the books were published. These aren't just someone like Jeremy Crawford tweeting out what the intent of a rule was, these are official addendums to the rules. There is a section near the beginning that discusses how to calculate a character's AC.
10 is the base AC, mage armor changes the base to 13, it does not change how to calculate the AC. A fighter says nothing about Ac but add armor and he has AC that fourmula then is armore AC +sheild +dex if not heavy, so if you want to talk about bonuses VS calculating AC every time you add a bonous it changes the calculation . or let me put it this way sheild ac is 2 making it a plus1 sheild makes the sheild effect on ac a 3 but the base is set at 2 and since we can not chamge the base as thats what mage armor does. also if we take the armor off the fighter whats his AC should be 0 right as nothing is mentiones as a base to start from but all will say 10 as the standers ac is 10 untill it is modafies by a spell like mage armor oe the crowing of scales like a soccorror and the armore a fighet wears sets the AC it does not add to it as writted
Taking armor off of anyone does not put their AC to 0, fighter or otherwise, unless there is some abysmal stat manipulations occurring. Base AC is, per the rules in the phb, calculated as 10 + DEX mod without armor or shields, or other items, magic or otherwise. This is the standard, and proficiencies and/or spells alter that, but the calculation is constant.
Mage Armor changes your AC to 13 + DEX mod, like donning a set of armor would do, normally. Hence, being literally in the name, Mage Armor.
Without Mage Armor, the caster's AC reverts back to 10 + DEX mod, not 0.
Taking armor, shield, etc. off of a fighter reverts their AC back to 10 + DEX mod, not 0.
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Per official ruling in the Sage Advice Compendium Mage Armor give you a new way to calculate your AC and thus doesn't work with Unarmed Defense.
Well there nothing in the Playtests to show that this is disallowed, so Crawford was only speaking from his personal opinion and not canon.
Edit: There is something regarding unarmored defense that says it's not possible. He probably should have cited this.
Never mind. apparently there is something about unarmed defense that precludes being able to use this because it is a separate way to calculate AC.
The devs created an situation which punishes Monks and boosts Mages. I think ONE or the other option needs to be settled on: Either its NOT armor, in which case Bladesong, Unarmored Defense, etc work. Or It IS armor and no such features work. I am inclined to allow the stacking. Its just another example of the devs not being consistent for no good reason.
Mage armor works with the new Bladesong in the UA. Mage armor gives an AC calculation and Bladesong adds a bonus of your INT modifier just like a ring of protection would. No conflicts here. Mage armor doesn’t work with unarmored defense because both are AC calculations. But a monk/Bladesinger can add INT to the monks unarmored defense.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?