Nope its fine as it is. This is D&D not the real world. Real world monks don't go around punching people senseless or sprint across water. Besides if we start doing this renaming thingy then Wizards will need to be renamed as well since a female Wizard can also be called a Witch in the real world.
Besides if we start doing this renaming thingy then Wizards will need to be renamed as well since a female Wizard can also be called a Witch in the real world.
While I don't believe that witches are the female equivalent of Wizards, allow me to point out that, in the original D&D, Wizards were called Magic Users. We probably don't want to use that term here because the game has moved on and Sorcerers and Warlocks can also be called Magic Users now but the precedent of using a gender-neutral name for the class exists.
And to forestall a particular response, male witches were historically called "witches." They are not warlocks.
In the original Greek it descends from, monk is intersex. It just means "solitary one." I imagine there are also nuances of Asian languages that make the semantics a bit moot.
WotC can probably just state that in canon for their materials, monk is intersex.
I think a bigger issue is that the Monk class uses a very specific name for a class that has the whole range of Asian religion, martial culture, and especially the martial arts movies they inspired as its basis. Plenty of characters and figures in those genres aren't monks at all, and plenty had actual monks who wore heavy armor and fought with glaives like fighters.
If WotC changes the name, I think "Martial Artist" would be more fitting.
I think its fairly clear that "monk" as it is used in D&D 5e is meant to be unisex, primarily by the fact that the main artwork for the monk class is of a human woman!
I could get behind renaming it marital artists, but for a separate reason. I find "monk" can sometimes be confusing in medieval fantasy when distinguishing martial artists (based roughly on Eastern monks) and men of the cloth (i.e. "monks" per European/Western tradition).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
In Buddhism, as an example, the Male version of the word is "Bhikkhu" and the Female version is "Bhikkhuni".
Monk and Nun are simply the English equivalent as those are the two closest terms in the English language.
In Asceticism, both men and women can be Monks with the exception of... Thailand, iirc?
But even "Bhikkhu" and "Bhikkhuni" are verbal nouns meaning "beggar," not strictly a title for a clerical role. So better English translations would be things like "beggars" or something more descriptive like "those who live on alms."
Neither of which sounds great for a dnd class and both of which sounds more like clerics (because that is what it is, just not European).
So instead of using a term that can be tangled up with Western monastics, and doesn't inherently have anything to do with martial artists... maybe a totally different name would be better.
As I mentioned, in asceticism Monks can be both male and female. In the context of D&D it's a gender neutral term.
And Bhikkhu and Bhikkhuni are fully ordained monastics. The direct English translation of each are Monk and Nun respectively and, as with many translations, the words that are chosen are those that make the most sense contextually. Not sure where you're getting your translation from but every resource I've checked say the same thing: Fully ordained Buddhist monastic, directly translating into English as Monk and Nun. (Not saying you're wrong, just that I'm not finding anything that corroborates.)
I think if you feel this way you should implement it in your own game, I personally feel that the name is fine, but that´s just me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Naibs of Dune, I'm the supreme meowster of the cult of cats!, Head lobotomizer of the OIADSB cult, I've got a thieves guild, come join, Warlock main in D2.
Don't forget to love each other!
I play characters at taverns.
[ He/him ] [Shout out to my 11 followers] [ If you think I haven't responded to something check my posts.]
Join Calius & Kothar industries. We have good pay, plus dental! see tavern for details
Monk is fine the way it is. They should keep it as it’s been around since AD&D. And I don’t take it, in the D&D context, as gendered. In fact, I had never thought about it in that way until the OP brought it up.
Personal opinion, I don't like the name monk either but for completely different reasons. I'd rather it get called Pugilist (person that fights with their fists) and then blend different styles to that sort of thing into the class. Things like kensei or sun soul blended into other classes that like to use weapons. Pugilist becomes culturally neutral with different archetypes to reflect cultures. You could still have a "ninja" archetype that uses fists and teleports and whatnot, or a "monk" that reflects the style that you see now and still have ones that are more of an unarmed fighty type etc.
On the pugilist thing as well, monks do unarmed strikes, which doesn't just include punching. It could also be either kicks or headbutts, which really amps up the flavor of how you want to describe your strikes.
Monk as a pop culture term has basically become a genderless thing. Nun is very specifically something Catholic within modern parlance, and in context of D&D is used in that fashion as a church term for whatever is the Catholic/Christian equivalent.
Calling it a "Martial Artist" or "Pugilist" very much ignores a good chunk of the subclasses, particularly Kensei.
Calling it a "Martial Artist" or "Pugilist" very much ignores a good chunk of the subclasses, particularly Kensei.
Martial artist would fit a Kensei as well. Nothing about martial artist means to fight without weapons. The issue with martial artist is that it technically also applies to the fighter.
And it doesn’t roll off the tongue as easily as monk. Even in AD&D they were open to both male and female characters. It’s been non-gendered for a while now, as far as D&D goes.
In future versions of the game, should the class Monk be renamed?
Is it sexist since female monks in the real world are not called "monks" they're called "nuns"?
definemonk - Bing
"a member of a religious community of men typically living under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience."
Nope its fine as it is. This is D&D not the real world. Real world monks don't go around punching people senseless or sprint across water. Besides if we start doing this renaming thingy then Wizards will need to be renamed as well since a female Wizard can also be called a Witch in the real world.
These powers are rooted in Asian stories of monks and, in those Asian stories, female equivalents are called nuns.
While I don't believe that witches are the female equivalent of Wizards, allow me to point out that, in the original D&D, Wizards were called Magic Users. We probably don't want to use that term here because the game has moved on and Sorcerers and Warlocks can also be called Magic Users now but the precedent of using a gender-neutral name for the class exists.
And to forestall a particular response, male witches were historically called "witches." They are not warlocks.
In the original Greek it descends from, monk is intersex. It just means "solitary one." I imagine there are also nuances of Asian languages that make the semantics a bit moot.
WotC can probably just state that in canon for their materials, monk is intersex.
I think a bigger issue is that the Monk class uses a very specific name for a class that has the whole range of Asian religion, martial culture, and especially the martial arts movies they inspired as its basis. Plenty of characters and figures in those genres aren't monks at all, and plenty had actual monks who wore heavy armor and fought with glaives like fighters.
If WotC changes the name, I think "Martial Artist" would be more fitting.
[REDACTED] Renaming them to martial artist changes the lore. Maybe just add a nun class
I think its fairly clear that "monk" as it is used in D&D 5e is meant to be unisex, primarily by the fact that the main artwork for the monk class is of a human woman!
I could get behind renaming it marital artists, but for a separate reason. I find "monk" can sometimes be confusing in medieval fantasy when distinguishing martial artists (based roughly on Eastern monks) and men of the cloth (i.e. "monks" per European/Western tradition).
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
No.
In Buddhism, as an example, the Male version of the word is "Bhikkhu" and the Female version is "Bhikkhuni".
Monk and Nun are simply the English equivalent as those are the two closest terms in the English language.
In Asceticism, both men and women can be Monks with the exception of... Thailand, iirc?
But even "Bhikkhu" and "Bhikkhuni" are verbal nouns meaning "beggar," not strictly a title for a clerical role. So better English translations would be things like "beggars" or something more descriptive like "those who live on alms."
Neither of which sounds great for a dnd class and both of which sounds more like clerics (because that is what it is, just not European).
So instead of using a term that can be tangled up with Western monastics, and doesn't inherently have anything to do with martial artists... maybe a totally different name would be better.
I don't see the need.
As I mentioned, in asceticism Monks can be both male and female. In the context of D&D it's a gender neutral term.
And Bhikkhu and Bhikkhuni are fully ordained monastics. The direct English translation of each are Monk and Nun respectively and, as with many translations, the words that are chosen are those that make the most sense contextually. Not sure where you're getting your translation from but every resource I've checked say the same thing: Fully ordained Buddhist monastic, directly translating into English as Monk and Nun. (Not saying you're wrong, just that I'm not finding anything that corroborates.)
I think if you feel this way you should implement it in your own game, I personally feel that the name is fine, but that´s just me.
Naibs of Dune, I'm the supreme meowster of the cult of cats!, Head lobotomizer of the OIADSB cult, I've got a thieves guild, come join, Warlock main in D2.
Don't forget to love each other!
I play characters at taverns.
[ He/him ] [Shout out to my 11 followers] [ If you think I haven't responded to something check my posts.]
Join Calius & Kothar industries. We have good pay, plus dental! see tavern for details
Monk is fine the way it is. They should keep it as it’s been around since AD&D. And I don’t take it, in the D&D context, as gendered. In fact, I had never thought about it in that way until the OP brought it up.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
No. And the internet is your friend. ;) Also, this. As mentioned, things move on.
The term "monk" isn't gendered any more than "cleric" or "paladin" or any of the other classes.
Personal opinion, I don't like the name monk either but for completely different reasons. I'd rather it get called Pugilist (person that fights with their fists) and then blend different styles to that sort of thing into the class. Things like kensei or sun soul blended into other classes that like to use weapons. Pugilist becomes culturally neutral with different archetypes to reflect cultures. You could still have a "ninja" archetype that uses fists and teleports and whatnot, or a "monk" that reflects the style that you see now and still have ones that are more of an unarmed fighty type etc.
On the pugilist thing as well, monks do unarmed strikes, which doesn't just include punching. It could also be either kicks or headbutts, which really amps up the flavor of how you want to describe your strikes.
Monk as a pop culture term has basically become a genderless thing. Nun is very specifically something Catholic within modern parlance, and in context of D&D is used in that fashion as a church term for whatever is the Catholic/Christian equivalent.
Calling it a "Martial Artist" or "Pugilist" very much ignores a good chunk of the subclasses, particularly Kensei.
And it doesn’t roll off the tongue as easily as monk. Even in AD&D they were open to both male and female characters. It’s been non-gendered for a while now, as far as D&D goes.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The monk class has a lot of work that it needs. This is not one of those things.