Any class that will give you a quick bonus damage per hit... Hex and hunter's mark are great for monks because you get so many attacks that they really begin to stack and make up for the lackluster damage that monks do.
Hex is an awesome spell. HM not so much.
Running Hex would make FOB worth spending the ki on.
Any class that will give you a quick bonus damage per hit... Hex and hunter's mark are great for monks because you get so many attacks that they really begin to stack and make up for the lackluster damage that monks do.
Hex is an awesome spell. HM not so much.
Running Hex would make FOB worth spending the ki on.
It is true that you can recharge the spell with a short rest, but to access the hex spell one must have at least 13 in charisma and this could be complicated for those using Point Buy (then having to give up a strong wisdom score to sustain charisma). If you take Magic Initiate on the other hand the spell will not be rechargeable with a short rest. I find that the ranger has better synergy than the warlock as a multiclass, so consequently I prefer to take the ranger option.
Any class that will give you a quick bonus damage per hit... Hex and hunter's mark are great for monks because you get so many attacks that they really begin to stack and make up for the lackluster damage that monks do.
Hex is an awesome spell. HM not so much.
Running Hex would make FOB worth spending the ki on.
It is true that you can recharge the spell with a short rest, but to access the hex spell one must have at least 13 in charisma and this could be complicated for those using Point Buy (then having to give up a strong wisdom score to sustain charisma). If you take Magic Initiate on the other hand the spell will not be rechargeable with a short rest. I find that the ranger has better synergy than the warlock as a multiclass, so consequently I prefer to take the ranger option.
You can also access it through the Fey Touched feat, and that is usually how I get it. That makes it pretty painless on point buy - Start with a 17 Wisdom and take Fey Touched to boost it to 18 then pick up a wisdom class for more slots to use it, Cleric being the most obvious and it works well with Monk (especially a Cleric that gets martial weapons), while giving a subclass on a 1-level dip.
Ranger does work well with Monk, but gets fewer spell slots and Hex is a much better spell than HM IME. Hex is usable the whole game because of the disadvantage, while HM is not really very viable once you're in tier 3. The difference is enough that I would still take the feat for Hex even if I went with a Ranger dip.
Also because it lasts an hour even 1 use a day without any more slots is pretty significant.
Any class that will give you a quick bonus damage per hit... Hex and hunter's mark are great for monks because you get so many attacks that they really begin to stack and make up for the lackluster damage that monks do.
Hex is an awesome spell. HM not so much.
Running Hex would make FOB worth spending the ki on.
It is true that you can recharge the spell with a short rest, but to access the hex spell one must have at least 13 in charisma and this could be complicated for those using Point Buy (then having to give up a strong wisdom score to sustain charisma). If you take Magic Initiate on the other hand the spell will not be rechargeable with a short rest. I find that the ranger has better synergy than the warlock as a multiclass, so consequently I prefer to take the ranger option.
You can also access it through the Fey Touched feat, and that is usually how I get it. That makes it pretty painless on point buy - Start with a 17 Wisdom and take Fey Touched to boost it to 18 then pick up a wisdom class for more slots to use it, Cleric being the most obvious and it works well with Monk (especially a Cleric that gets martial weapons), while giving a subclass on a 1-level dip.
Ranger does work well with Monk, but gets fewer spell slots and Hex is a much better spell than HM IME. Hex is usable the whole game because of the disadvantage, while HM is not really very viable once you're in tier 3. The difference is enough that I would still take the feat for Hex even if I went with a Ranger dip.
Also because it lasts an hour even 1 use a day without any more slots is pretty significant.
Hex
1st-level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 bonus action Range: 90 feet Components:V, S, M (the petrified eye of a newt) Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You place a curse on a creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 necroticdamage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. The target has disadvantage on ability checks made with the chosen ability.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature.
ARemove Cursecast on the target ends this spell early.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
Casting Time: 1 bonus action Range: 90 feet Components: V Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
From my point of view they are quite balanced, both have advantages and disadvantages. In fact I would say HM is almost better because of the necrotic damage of Hex. Especially because a good portion of the monsters in dnd are undead and are resistant or immune to necrotic damage. If Hex were rechargeable with a short rest (taking 1 level from Warlock) it would have a strong advantage, but otherwise they are quite similar.
Hex: +
Choice on the ability to curse
Hex:-
Necrotic damage (many enemies have resistance to this damage).
Can be removed with Remove Curse and Dispel Magic
Requires extra Material and Somatic (S) to cast it (though few use materials)
Hunter's Mark: +
Neutral Damage
Can only be removed by Dispel Magic
Hunter's Mark: -
Enhancement is given to skills only to search for marked prey.
I have to disagree on this take, because excepting specific circumstances hex is by far superior. Necrotic resistance/immunity isn't nearly as common as you are making it out to be, it's mostly some of the advanced undead like ghosts/vampires/ghasts/shadows which for the majority of campaigns aren't the majority of enemies. Obviously there ARE some campaigns like that so it's something to consider, but it still isn't as common as you make it out to be.
The remove curse removal possibility is basically just flavour, I've never seen it done in years of playing D&D because it's a terrible waste of a spell to use Remove Curse on it. The material note is true, but isn't likely to matter in this context because monks have open hands to carry components if needed, assuming you can't use a holy symbol built into your weapon or a quarterstaff. Finally, personal experience I've only seen the tracking part of Hunters Mark used once, because it requires you to get close enough to a creature to actually cast it, then have the enemy actually get away far enough for the bonuses to be useful.
Meanwhile, the possible Hex synergies with ability checks can be huge with proper party synergies. Grappling builds and certain control spells don't typically have native ways to give disadvantage to opponents, so you being able to do that helps massively with teamwork. This combination actually can let you do magnificently at grappling on your own if you are a Way of the Astral Self, since you can cast it and grapple enemies using your wisdom. Dipping a few ranger levels for spell slots and expertise in athletics to top it off leave you as one of the more effective builds for the niche.
I agree that the resistance and immunity to necrotic damage is not that high, but at least 30% have this resistance and 20% are immune. So if you are up against undead or other magical creatures that resist necrotic damage, it could be annoying.
I also agree that the ability to curse and decrease an enemy's ability is strategically great, but this depends on the group's abilities to exploit them.
I think it depends on how you want to develop the monk.
The main plus to Hex is the disadvantage it imposes on ability checks. This makes it a viable spell through level 20 and makes it easy to buff other things the party is doing like the Rogue (or Monk) hiding (Wisdom), when the Wizard puts someone in a Web (strength), when someone is shoving or grappling (dex or strength). It is also useful out of combat in a wide array of social and stealth situations, especially if you are still concentrating from a previous fight and don't have to cast it again. This is much better than the HM bonus for marked prey which very rarely comes into play. Even when it does come into play, it is usually a contested check where Hex would work just as well (disadvantage for his stealth check is as good as advantage for my perception check).
A secondary small advantage from Hex is that it works on all attacks, not just weapon attacks, although this is not significant on a Monk IMO.
IME HM is no longer relevant after about 8th level and it is suffering and generally outclassed by that time.
The main thing HM has going for it is the lack of a material component, which makes it more effective on a sword and board or two-weapon fighter at low levels, but in such a case I probably would not keep it on my list for very long because at high levels it is not very useful.
As you pointed out, the magic weapon damage type on HM is better too, but that is not enough to overcome the disadvantage mechanic that Hex gets.
Can't go wrong with ranger. Really, any class that lets you add damage on each hit, since monks aren't big hitters, they're frequent hitters. Take three levels of Gloomstalker and you've got two monk attacks, flurry, and Gloomstalker bonus attack. If you have Hunter's Mark up then you are getting five chances at 1d6 bonus, plus another 1d8 on the last strike. Pair with Shadow Monk and mobility for the ultimate hit and runner.
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Hex is an awesome spell. HM not so much.
Running Hex would make FOB worth spending the ki on.
It is true that you can recharge the spell with a short rest, but to access the hex spell one must have at least 13 in charisma and this could be complicated for those using Point Buy (then having to give up a strong wisdom score to sustain charisma). If you take Magic Initiate on the other hand the spell will not be rechargeable with a short rest. I find that the ranger has better synergy than the warlock as a multiclass, so consequently I prefer to take the ranger option.
You can also access it through the Fey Touched feat, and that is usually how I get it. That makes it pretty painless on point buy - Start with a 17 Wisdom and take Fey Touched to boost it to 18 then pick up a wisdom class for more slots to use it, Cleric being the most obvious and it works well with Monk (especially a Cleric that gets martial weapons), while giving a subclass on a 1-level dip.
Ranger does work well with Monk, but gets fewer spell slots and Hex is a much better spell than HM IME. Hex is usable the whole game because of the disadvantage, while HM is not really very viable once you're in tier 3. The difference is enough that I would still take the feat for Hex even if I went with a Ranger dip.
Also because it lasts an hour even 1 use a day without any more slots is pretty significant.
1st-level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 90 feet
Components: V, S, M (the petrified eye of a newt)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You place a curse on a creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. The target has disadvantage on ability checks made with the chosen ability.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature.
A Remove Curse cast on the target ends this spell early.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
Spell Lists. Warlock
1st-level divination
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 90 feet
Components: V
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
Spell Lists. Ranger
From my point of view they are quite balanced, both have advantages and disadvantages. In fact I would say HM is almost better because of the necrotic damage of Hex. Especially because a good portion of the monsters in dnd are undead and are resistant or immune to necrotic damage. If Hex were rechargeable with a short rest (taking 1 level from Warlock) it would have a strong advantage, but otherwise they are quite similar.
Hex: +
Hex: -
Hunter's Mark: +
Hunter's Mark: -
I have to disagree on this take, because excepting specific circumstances hex is by far superior. Necrotic resistance/immunity isn't nearly as common as you are making it out to be, it's mostly some of the advanced undead like ghosts/vampires/ghasts/shadows which for the majority of campaigns aren't the majority of enemies. Obviously there ARE some campaigns like that so it's something to consider, but it still isn't as common as you make it out to be.
The remove curse removal possibility is basically just flavour, I've never seen it done in years of playing D&D because it's a terrible waste of a spell to use Remove Curse on it. The material note is true, but isn't likely to matter in this context because monks have open hands to carry components if needed, assuming you can't use a holy symbol built into your weapon or a quarterstaff. Finally, personal experience I've only seen the tracking part of Hunters Mark used once, because it requires you to get close enough to a creature to actually cast it, then have the enemy actually get away far enough for the bonuses to be useful.
Meanwhile, the possible Hex synergies with ability checks can be huge with proper party synergies. Grappling builds and certain control spells don't typically have native ways to give disadvantage to opponents, so you being able to do that helps massively with teamwork. This combination actually can let you do magnificently at grappling on your own if you are a Way of the Astral Self, since you can cast it and grapple enemies using your wisdom. Dipping a few ranger levels for spell slots and expertise in athletics to top it off leave you as one of the more effective builds for the niche.
I agree that the resistance and immunity to necrotic damage is not that high, but at least 30% have this resistance and 20% are immune. So if you are up against undead or other magical creatures that resist necrotic damage, it could be annoying.
I also agree that the ability to curse and decrease an enemy's ability is strategically great, but this depends on the group's abilities to exploit them.
I think it depends on how you want to develop the monk.
https://blackcitadelrpg.com/resistance-immunity-vulnerability-5e/ (link)
The main plus to Hex is the disadvantage it imposes on ability checks. This makes it a viable spell through level 20 and makes it easy to buff other things the party is doing like the Rogue (or Monk) hiding (Wisdom), when the Wizard puts someone in a Web (strength), when someone is shoving or grappling (dex or strength). It is also useful out of combat in a wide array of social and stealth situations, especially if you are still concentrating from a previous fight and don't have to cast it again. This is much better than the HM bonus for marked prey which very rarely comes into play. Even when it does come into play, it is usually a contested check where Hex would work just as well (disadvantage for his stealth check is as good as advantage for my perception check).
A secondary small advantage from Hex is that it works on all attacks, not just weapon attacks, although this is not significant on a Monk IMO.
IME HM is no longer relevant after about 8th level and it is suffering and generally outclassed by that time.
The main thing HM has going for it is the lack of a material component, which makes it more effective on a sword and board or two-weapon fighter at low levels, but in such a case I probably would not keep it on my list for very long because at high levels it is not very useful.
As you pointed out, the magic weapon damage type on HM is better too, but that is not enough to overcome the disadvantage mechanic that Hex gets.
Can't go wrong with ranger. Really, any class that lets you add damage on each hit, since monks aren't big hitters, they're frequent hitters. Take three levels of Gloomstalker and you've got two monk attacks, flurry, and Gloomstalker bonus attack. If you have Hunter's Mark up then you are getting five chances at 1d6 bonus, plus another 1d8 on the last strike. Pair with Shadow Monk and mobility for the ultimate hit and runner.