2 levels of warlock is actually a great way to get Eldritch Sight, because it also lets you get a great ranged cantrip to fill one of the main weaknesses of the monk.
But I don't think using darkness would be too op. For one, a lot of the stronger enemies have some form of sight that gets around it, or AOE attacks that can cost you concentration.
And more importantly, it can really mess with your allies, especially the spell casters. It really isn't worth it for the monk to throw out their attacks at advantage if the blaster mages are struggling.
Charisma-based Warlock features are a terrible solution for a Monk. Even rolling for stats you would have to roll obscenely high to make this combination work.
Charisma-based Warlock features are a terrible solution for a Monk. Even rolling for stats you would have to roll obscenely high to make this combination work.
You only need a 13 in Charisma. That isn't difficult.
I'd take 2-4 shots with eldritch blast with just a +1 or +2 (plus proficiency) to hit for ranged attacks over throwing a single d4 dart for a +5 (+ proficiency) to hit. Its only a difference of 4 at most on your attack rolls.
And if you're spamming darkness or the shadow monk's invisibility features for the unseen attacker bonus, those eldritch blast shots are done at advantage. And you can throw out a Hex to increase damage even further whether you're using eldrich blast or your fists.
So its actually a pretty strong ranged option. Even if you don't take agonizing blast as your other invocation for that little extra damage, you can take another useful invocation for in and out of battle.
And honestly, it can be a big ki saver to stunning strike and enemy one turn, and then step back to blast them with eldritch blast at advantage the next rather than burn ki wailing on them with flurry of blows.
So 2 shortbow attacks vs 2, 3, then 4 eldritch blasts depending on level (with a possible extra d6 from hex?). The damage starts off similar and goes to being heavily one sided in favor of eldritch blast.
And a monk can't whip out a short bow and use it the same turn if they already have a melee monk weapon out, so that is another distinct advantage.
Its really not that complicated a dip for a multiclass. You don't even really get any class ability interactions other than eldritch sight, the better ranged option is just another option. Calling it a rube goldberg machine is like calling walking and talking at the same time an olympic level athletic feat lol
I guess you also get great options from spells too, like shield and wrathful smite for a hexblade, or hellish rebuke for a fiend. But that still isn't exactly complicated.
So 2 shortbow attacks vs 2, 3, then 4 eldritch blasts depending on level (with a possible extra d6 from hex?). The damage starts off similar and goes to being heavily one sided in favor of eldritch blast.
And a monk can't whip out a short bow and use it the same turn if they already have a melee monk weapon out, so that is another distinct advantage.
Its really not that complicated a dip for a multiclass. You don't even really get any class ability interactions other than eldritch sight, the better ranged option is just another option. Calling it a rube goldberg machine is like calling walking and talking at the same time an olympic level athletic feat lol
I guess you also get great options from spells too, like shield and wrathful smite for a hexblade, or hellish rebuke for a fiend. But that still isn't exactly complicated.
Except that it stops being in Eldritch Blasts Favor when it has increasing troubles hitting anything meaning that your not actually consistantly getting more hits than when it's comparable at low level. it's only in Eldritch Blasts Favor when Eldritch Blast is hitting alot. which requires yet another stat to focus on when the Monk already has a lot to focus on to begin with.
So 2 shortbow attacks vs 2, 3, then 4 eldritch blasts depending on level (with a possible extra d6 from hex?). The damage starts off similar and goes to being heavily one sided in favor of eldritch blast.
And a monk can't whip out a short bow and use it the same turn if they already have a melee monk weapon out, so that is another distinct advantage.
Its really not that complicated a dip for a multiclass. You don't even really get any class ability interactions other than eldritch sight, the better ranged option is just another option. Calling it a rube goldberg machine is like calling walking and talking at the same time an olympic level athletic feat lol
I guess you also get great options from spells too, like shield and wrathful smite for a hexblade, or hellish rebuke for a fiend. But that still isn't exactly complicated.
Except that it stops being in Eldritch Blasts Favor when it has increasing troubles hitting anything meaning that your not actually consistantly getting more hits than when it's comparable at low level. it's only in Eldritch Blasts Favor when Eldritch Blast is hitting alot. which requires yet another stat to focus on when the Monk already has a lot to focus on to begin with.
The hit chance isn't worlds apart to begin with, epsecially for a monk subclass that is constantly getting advantage from unseen attacker. And the hit chance stops being a real concern when that 3rd eldritch blast comes on line, since 3 attacks with a slightly smaller chance of hitting will do more damage on average than 2 weaker attacks with better chances of hitting.
It doesn't require actually worrying about another stat.
Delaying monk features for two levels for a ranged option that is questionably better than a shortbow at best is just a bad investment. No two ways about it. You didn't suddenly discover a secret the D&D community has left behind, Kronzy. It's a bad build that makes the monk actively weaker.
Delaying monk features for two levels for a ranged option that is questionably better than a shortbow at best is just a bad investment. No two ways about it. You didn't suddenly discover a secret the D&D community has left behind, Kronzy. It's a bad build that makes the monk actively weaker.
For a shadow monk to get devil's sight to truly abuse casting the darkness spell with ki, its a nice side benenfit.
18 levels of monk with 2 levels of warlock arguably lets a monk deal more damage than 20 levels of monk.
Delaying monk features for two levels for a ranged option that is questionably better than a shortbow at best is just a bad investment. No two ways about it. You didn't suddenly discover a secret the D&D community has left behind, Kronzy. It's a bad build that makes the monk actively weaker.
For a shadow monk to get devil's sight to truly abuse casting the darkness spell with ki, its a nice side benenfit.
18 levels of monk with 2 levels of warlock arguably lets a monk deal more damage than 20 levels of monk.
If we're delving into a discussion of that nature, frankly I'd rather solve problems the SAD way. A 1-dip into Fighter or a 2-dip into Ranger will get you Blind Fighting without forcing MADness. In fact, I'm a big fan of this build (not my own design):
Dealing more DPR than an L20 monk isn't that hard - monks stop getting offensive class features at level *six*, and that's unarmed strikes counting as magic - they stop getting direct offensive scaling at level *five*. The rest of the offensive scaling is the martial arts die, which is negligible - Monks have 1d8 spears base and, as you can see above, getting 1d10 swords isn't that hard - and subclass benefits. And, of course, ki - those offensive abilities you got from levels 1 to 5 need ki to fuel them, and as you level you gain ki. But having more ki lets you fight for longer without getting tired - you don't intrinsically get any way to hit *harder* as you gain ki past level six.
Monks basically hit their capstone at level 14. Barring a killer L17 subclass ability - and the Way of Shadow one isn't a killer, given the way the rest of the subclass works - you can bail out whenever you want from L15 onward and with reasonable ease improve your DPR. In the fact, the build above isn't even optimized - L15 of Monk is a dead level, but the build takes it. Unless you really want that Alert feat at the end, you could improve it like this:
And taking two Rogue levels is hardly the only good move possible here - you could grab Cleric 2 or Rogue 1/Cleric 1 and do a lot with either (Cleric 1 is usually an excellent dip for anyone with the stats for it).
Delaying monk features for two levels for a ranged option that is questionably better than a shortbow at best is just a bad investment. No two ways about it. You didn't suddenly discover a secret the D&D community has left behind, Kronzy. It's a bad build that makes the monk actively weaker.
For a shadow monk to get devil's sight to truly abuse casting the darkness spell with ki, its a nice side benenfit.
18 levels of monk with 2 levels of warlock arguably lets a monk deal more damage than 20 levels of monk.
If we're delving into a discussion of that nature, frankly I'd rather solve problems the SAD way. A 1-dip into Fighter or a 2-dip into Ranger will get you Blind Fighting without forcing MADness. In fact, I'm a big fan of this build (not my own design):
Dealing more DPR than an L20 monk isn't that hard - monks stop getting offensive class features at level *six*, and that's unarmed strikes counting as magic - they stop getting direct offensive scaling at level *five*. The rest of the offensive scaling is the martial arts die, which is negligible - Monks have 1d8 spears base and, as you can see above, getting 1d10 swords isn't that hard - and subclass benefits. And, of course, ki - those offensive abilities you got from levels 1 to 5 need ki to fuel them, and as you level you gain ki. But having more ki lets you fight for longer without getting tired - you don't intrinsically get any way to hit *harder* as you gain ki past level six.
Monks basically hit their capstone at level 14. Barring a killer L17 subclass ability - and the Way of Shadow one isn't a killer, given the way the rest of the subclass works - you can bail out whenever you want from L15 onward and with reasonable ease improve your DPR. In the fact, the build above isn't even optimized - L15 of Monk is a dead level, but the build takes it. Unless you really want that Alert feat at the end, you could improve it like this:
And taking two Rogue levels is hardly the only good move possible here - you could grab Cleric 2 or Rogue 1/Cleric 1 and do a lot with either (Cleric 1 is usually an excellent dip for anyone with the stats for it).
Ha! Now that is truly complicated.
But the major downside to going with blindsight is the short range. Just taking 2 levels of warlock lets the shadow monk enjoy most of their features and spam advantage on their ranged cantrip.
Also, the annoying "should you really be able to recognize targets between your 10 ft blindsight and the edge of the darkness spell" question is sidestepped, making things simpler.
So 2 shortbow attacks vs 2, 3, then 4 eldritch blasts depending on level (with a possible extra d6 from hex?). The damage starts off similar and goes to being heavily one sided in favor of eldritch blast.
And a monk can't whip out a short bow and use it the same turn if they already have a melee monk weapon out, so that is another distinct advantage.
Its really not that complicated a dip for a multiclass. You don't even really get any class ability interactions other than eldritch sight, the better ranged option is just another option. Calling it a rube goldberg machine is like calling walking and talking at the same time an olympic level athletic feat lol
I guess you also get great options from spells too, like shield and wrathful smite for a hexblade, or hellish rebuke for a fiend. But that still isn't exactly complicated.
Except that it stops being in Eldritch Blasts Favor when it has increasing troubles hitting anything meaning that your not actually consistantly getting more hits than when it's comparable at low level. it's only in Eldritch Blasts Favor when Eldritch Blast is hitting alot. which requires yet another stat to focus on when the Monk already has a lot to focus on to begin with.
The hit chance isn't worlds apart to begin with, epsecially for a monk subclass that is constantly getting advantage from unseen attacker. And the hit chance stops being a real concern when that 3rd eldritch blast comes on line, since 3 attacks with a slightly smaller chance of hitting will do more damage on average than 2 weaker attacks with better chances of hitting.
It doesn't require actually worrying about another stat.
You mean 3 attacks with close to half the chance of hitting compared to 2 slightly weaker attacks at most with a much higher chance of hitting.
But sure. it's easily to marginalize these things in favor of the build that you really like.
But Wait. It's not necessarily 2 slightly weaker attacks with higher attack against 2 attacks with lower attack. It's actually 3 attacks vs. 3 attacks if all we care about is hitting the opponent. Further, if your going to call the difference in damage negligible from 1d8 to 1d10... Or even 1d6 to 1d8 as you did in your measurement about how monks damage doesn't really improve past level 6. That means the damage difference is negligible between Eldritch Blast and MA from a Monk. Also while we're considering such things. the Monks Damage is actually higher. Because Even if you take Agonizing blast as your second Invocation. That's only a +1 to the damage. 1d10+1 is an average damage of 6 basically (6.5 when people are trying to get somewhat technical) per blast. The Monk with +4 to +5 is looking at an average damage of 7-8 on a d6 and 8-9 on a d8.
Two Blasts from Eldritch Blast on average is going to net you 12 damage (13 being somewhat technical). Two hits from MA is doing 14-16 on a d6, and 16-18 on a d8.
When you add in the third eldritch blast your looking at an average damage of 18. The Same as just two hits from MA without even considering the potential 3rd attack that monks can easily do without expending a resource. Eldritch Blast Has to get up to level 11 and land all 3 just to match the average damage of the Monk's two MA hits. (For those that are curious and want numbers. MA doing 3 hits thanks to the bonus action attack is doing 21-24 average on a d6 and 24-27 on a d8. This third hit does interfere with Shadow Step and vice versa but shadow step is hardly the only way to get advantage luckily.)
Eldritch Blast only comes out notably ahead if the character is at least level 17 and All 4 of it's Eldritch Blasts hit and is compared only to 2 attacks of MA, and/or you increase the Charisma forcing you to need to use up more vital ASI's... Which you have now offset by taking two levels of which also incidentally created a situation where you actually get 1 less ASI by level 20...
And then when we throw in other factors besides Damage. Like the Potential for Stunning Strike, which if it works not only generates automatic advantage for the second strike but potentially action economy for not having to defend or disengage from that target, but also generates Advantage for other members of the party if they target that individual.
your Really in a situation that all the only way that Eldritch Blast in this unoptimized configuration is only doing one thing in a superior way. Generating a Ranged attack. Which if you are only wanting to generate a ranged attack. Pick up a short bow. it's range is almost as long(80/320 vs 120). it uses stats that your already focusing in to help maximize your damage without further stat investment or additional class levels. Also your automatically proficient with it as a monk since it's a simple weapon and it doesn't have the Heavy or special property so you can use Dedicated Weapon on it which turns it into a monk weapon.
You mean 3 attacks with close to half the chance of hitting compared to 2 slightly weaker attacks at most with a much higher chance of hitting.
Half the chance? That isn't how the math works.
Say you are attacking an enemy with an ac of 15. At level 5, your eldritch blast would have at least a +4 to hit (assuming you're dedicated to having the lowest possible char score), while a shot with a shortbow would have a +7.
That means the eldritch blast needs to roll an 11 or higher, while the shortbow needs to roll an 8 or higher. That isn't close to "half the chance." Its a 45% chance for the eldritch blast and 60% chance for the shortbow, which is only a 15% difference. And the chances for both go up dramatically if you are specifically abusing the unseen attacker rule for advantage, which is the whole point of this thread.
That difference can go up to 20% if dex is maxed out and char is never touched, but while that isn't ideal, it still isn't as massive 50%. a magic shortbow could even take that farther, but even a +3 bow wouldn't get to a 50% difference.
You're really over-estimating the difference in hit chance.
It's actually 3 attacks vs. 3 attacks if all we care about is hitting the opponent
How is it 3 attacks vs 3 attacks? There is no way for a shadow monk to give themselves a 3rd ranged attack.
Further, if your going to call the difference in damage negligible from 1d8 to 1d10... Or even 1d6 to 1d8 as you did in your measurement about how monks damage doesn't really improve past level 6. That means the damage difference is negligible between Eldritch Blast and MA from a Monk. Also while we're considering such things. the Monks Damage is actually higher. Because Even if you take Agonizing blast as your second Invocation. That's only a +1 to the damage. 1d10+1 is an average damage of 6 basically (6.5 when people are trying to get somewhat technical) per blast. The Monk with +4 to +5 is looking at an average damage of 7-8 on a d6 and 8-9 on a d8.
1d10 and 1d6 from Hex is a lot bigger than 1d6+4. Its the difference between a short sword and a greatsword. Throw in hex blade's curse and the eldritch blast has an improved crit range and at least a +1 to damage too. But if you are really focused on landing hits rather than dealing damage, hex and hex blade's curse help the monk with a shortbow too. Its still a plus for the character.
But lets also be realistic here; a monk who isn't a dedicated archer is going to occasionally have to go through the pain of switching weapons to use their bow in combat, especially if they are using monk weapons at those lower levels do get some d8 or d10 hits in. That means that in a lot of combats, its the difference between taking a hand off a staff for an eldritch blast vs just not making a ranged attack that opening turn.
And there are the famous naked prison escapes all monk players salivate over, cause they get to shine. You might not have your shortbow if you shawshank a prison break, but they can't take eldritch blast from you.
So even if a shadow monk with 2 levels of warlock doesn't exclusively use eldritch blast over their bow, its a useful option.
And then when we throw in other factors besides Damage. Like the Potential for Stunning Strike, which if it works not only generates automatic advantage for the second strike but potentially action economy for not having to defend or disengage from that target, but also generates Advantage for other members of the party if they target that individual.
You can't stunning strike with a ranged attack, so its not a real concern. Now if you really just want to play a stun bot for a hardcore combat game, I guess it would make sense to avoid multiclassing altogether, but the point of this thread is finding a way to pick up Devil's Sight to spam the unseen attacker rule, and there is only one means of doing that.
Also your automatically proficient with it as a monk since it's a simple weapon and it doesn't have the Heavy or special property so you can use Dedicated Weapon on it which turns it into a monk weapon.
I'll let you in on a secret; you're proficient with eldritch blast if you take levels in Warlock too.
I'll just end by mentioning there would be a cool factor to all this for me. I would reflavor my eldritch blast. Im a shadow monk: I probably want to be a ninja. So my eldtrich blasts will be played off as shuriken, or ki enfused throwing weapons. Ones I can use despite still having my staff in my other hand. When I use the shield spell or smite from my hexblade classes, its part of my ninja training and another trick or technique.
I play a 9th level Shadow Monk in our current campaign. Instead of an ASI, I took the feat Eldritch Adept and picked up Devil's Sight after clearing it with the DM. I figured the combo of Eldritch Sight and Darkness would be unstoppable, even OP especially since we have a Hexblade Warlock in our group. I had visions of the two of us being a shock commando team, wiping up the bad guys. It has NOT turned out that way. The darkness being so large an area has made it difficult to use without blinding the other party members. I use it much less than I expected I would. I only combo it maybe once every 3 or 4 games. I've actually used silence on the backline magic users more. Also, I find being a Monk and dipping into other classes not to be great. Monks get so many great things, especially at each level after 6th, it's hard to pass up. If you want Devil's Sight, take the feat Eldritch Adept. Don't multiclass into Warlock. If you REALLY want to multiclass, take 1 level of Fighter and take the fighting style Blind Fighting and save your ASI for increasing Dex or Wis. That way you'll also get Second Wind which is great for a Monk. Just be sure to take Monk first, then the multiclass. Or multiclass 2 levels into Rogue for Cunning Action. Remember, if you multiclass, though, that's KI points you don't get and that will hurt, especially in your early levels
I play a 9th level Shadow Monk in our current campaign. Instead of an ASI, I took the feat Eldritch Adept and picked up Devil's Sight after clearing it with the DM. I figured the combo of Eldritch Sight and Darkness would be unstoppable, even OP especially since we have a Hexblade Warlock in our group. I had visions of the two of us being a shock commando team, wiping up the bad guys. It has NOT turned out that way. The darkness being so large an area has made it difficult to use without blinding the other party members. I use it much less than I expected I would. I only combo it maybe once every 3 or 4 games. I've actually used silence on the backline magic users more. Also, I find being a Monk and dipping into other classes not to be great. Monks get so many great things, especially at each level after 6th, it's hard to pass up. If you want Devil's Sight, take the feat Eldritch Adept. Don't multiclass into Warlock. If you REALLY want to multiclass, take 1 level of Fighter and take the fighting style Blind Fighting and save your ASI for increasing Dex or Wis. That way you'll also get Second Wind which is great for a Monk. Just be sure to take Monk first, then the multiclass. Or multiclass 2 levels into Rogue for Cunning Action. Remember, if you multiclass, though, that's KI points you don't get and that will hurt, especially in your early levels
To be fair, the option of taking the Eldritch Adept feat instead of multiclassing to get Devil's Sight is only on the table if you clear it with the DM (which, you did in your case, but I do not know the DM Kronzy would be playing with) since RAW a Shadow Monk cant take the feat
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I will just say that i am currently in a campaign as a shadow monk + warlock (celestial). It is very fun. I chose this combination to have a little healing, devil sight, darkness, and shadow step. Turns out, I rarely ended up using the darkness+devil sight - mostly because, as mentioned above, it blinded all of my party. Though the first time i did it (phandelver adventure) - clearing out orcs and ogres in a cave- it worked great. i kept out of range as best i could and use eldritch blast. The other party members were a bit bored, but picked off anyone who came out of the darkness.
Most other times i have tried this, it worked poorly for some reason (enemy had blindsight, or there was a dispel magic used, etc.)
And though i ended up not using darkness as much as i expected (it is now my last resort/escape plan), i use the devil sight all the time - so i am glad i took it.
Overall, I love the character. between monk, invocations, and spells - I have lots of quirky abilities that come in handy at different times. Most of my stuff also resets after only a short rest - so that is pretty awesome too. But i am definitely missing out on the higher level abilities my other party members have.
I play a 9th level Shadow Monk in our current campaign. Instead of an ASI, I took the feat Eldritch Adept and picked up Devil's Sight after clearing it with the DM. I figured the combo of Eldritch Sight and Darkness would be unstoppable, even OP especially since we have a Hexblade Warlock in our group. I had visions of the two of us being a shock commando team, wiping up the bad guys. It has NOT turned out that way. The darkness being so large an area has made it difficult to use without blinding the other party members. I use it much less than I expected I would. I only combo it maybe once every 3 or 4 games. I've actually used silence on the backline magic users more. Also, I find being a Monk and dipping into other classes not to be great. Monks get so many great things, especially at each level after 6th, it's hard to pass up. If you want Devil's Sight, take the feat Eldritch Adept. Don't multiclass into Warlock. If you REALLY want to multiclass, take 1 level of Fighter and take the fighting style Blind Fighting and save your ASI for increasing Dex or Wis. That way you'll also get Second Wind which is great for a Monk. Just be sure to take Monk first, then the multiclass. Or multiclass 2 levels into Rogue for Cunning Action. Remember, if you multiclass, though, that's KI points you don't get and that will hurt, especially in your early levels
How much does blinding allies really matter though? It messes with spells that require sight, sure, but any disadvantage on attack rolls are nullified by the opponent also being blinded.
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2 levels of warlock is actually a great way to get Eldritch Sight, because it also lets you get a great ranged cantrip to fill one of the main weaknesses of the monk.
But I don't think using darkness would be too op. For one, a lot of the stronger enemies have some form of sight that gets around it, or AOE attacks that can cost you concentration.
And more importantly, it can really mess with your allies, especially the spell casters. It really isn't worth it for the monk to throw out their attacks at advantage if the blaster mages are struggling.
Charisma-based Warlock features are a terrible solution for a Monk. Even rolling for stats you would have to roll obscenely high to make this combination work.
You only need a 13 in Charisma. That isn't difficult.
I'd take 2-4 shots with eldritch blast with just a +1 or +2 (plus proficiency) to hit for ranged attacks over throwing a single d4 dart for a +5 (+ proficiency) to hit. Its only a difference of 4 at most on your attack rolls.
And if you're spamming darkness or the shadow monk's invisibility features for the unseen attacker bonus, those eldritch blast shots are done at advantage. And you can throw out a Hex to increase damage even further whether you're using eldrich blast or your fists.
So its actually a pretty strong ranged option. Even if you don't take agonizing blast as your other invocation for that little extra damage, you can take another useful invocation for in and out of battle.
And honestly, it can be a big ki saver to stunning strike and enemy one turn, and then step back to blast them with eldritch blast at advantage the next rather than burn ki wailing on them with flurry of blows.
I'd have fun with it.
You know shortbows exist right? This is like the rube goldberg machine of multiclass ideas.
So 2 shortbow attacks vs 2, 3, then 4 eldritch blasts depending on level (with a possible extra d6 from hex?). The damage starts off similar and goes to being heavily one sided in favor of eldritch blast.
And a monk can't whip out a short bow and use it the same turn if they already have a melee monk weapon out, so that is another distinct advantage.
Its really not that complicated a dip for a multiclass. You don't even really get any class ability interactions other than eldritch sight, the better ranged option is just another option. Calling it a rube goldberg machine is like calling walking and talking at the same time an olympic level athletic feat lol
I guess you also get great options from spells too, like shield and wrathful smite for a hexblade, or hellish rebuke for a fiend. But that still isn't exactly complicated.
Except that it stops being in Eldritch Blasts Favor when it has increasing troubles hitting anything meaning that your not actually consistantly getting more hits than when it's comparable at low level. it's only in Eldritch Blasts Favor when Eldritch Blast is hitting alot. which requires yet another stat to focus on when the Monk already has a lot to focus on to begin with.
The hit chance isn't worlds apart to begin with, epsecially for a monk subclass that is constantly getting advantage from unseen attacker. And the hit chance stops being a real concern when that 3rd eldritch blast comes on line, since 3 attacks with a slightly smaller chance of hitting will do more damage on average than 2 weaker attacks with better chances of hitting.
It doesn't require actually worrying about another stat.
Delaying monk features for two levels for a ranged option that is questionably better than a shortbow at best is just a bad investment. No two ways about it. You didn't suddenly discover a secret the D&D community has left behind, Kronzy. It's a bad build that makes the monk actively weaker.
For a shadow monk to get devil's sight to truly abuse casting the darkness spell with ki, its a nice side benenfit.
18 levels of monk with 2 levels of warlock arguably lets a monk deal more damage than 20 levels of monk.
If we're delving into a discussion of that nature, frankly I'd rather solve problems the SAD way. A 1-dip into Fighter or a 2-dip into Ranger will get you Blind Fighting without forcing MADness. In fact, I'm a big fan of this build (not my own design):
Half-Drow Fighter 1 / Shadow Monk 5 / Battle Master 3 / Shadow Monk 11 (Total: Shadow Monk 16 / Battle Master Fighter 4)
Starting Stats (Point Buy): 17 Dex / 16 Wis / 16 Con
ASIs: Elven Accuracy & 18 Dex @5, 20 Dex @8, 18 Wis @12, 20 Wis @16, Alert @20
Maneuvers: Tripping Attack, Riposte, Brace
Fighting Style: Blind-Fighting
Dealing more DPR than an L20 monk isn't that hard - monks stop getting offensive class features at level *six*, and that's unarmed strikes counting as magic - they stop getting direct offensive scaling at level *five*. The rest of the offensive scaling is the martial arts die, which is negligible - Monks have 1d8 spears base and, as you can see above, getting 1d10 swords isn't that hard - and subclass benefits. And, of course, ki - those offensive abilities you got from levels 1 to 5 need ki to fuel them, and as you level you gain ki. But having more ki lets you fight for longer without getting tired - you don't intrinsically get any way to hit *harder* as you gain ki past level six.
Monks basically hit their capstone at level 14. Barring a killer L17 subclass ability - and the Way of Shadow one isn't a killer, given the way the rest of the subclass works - you can bail out whenever you want from L15 onward and with reasonable ease improve your DPR. In the fact, the build above isn't even optimized - L15 of Monk is a dead level, but the build takes it. Unless you really want that Alert feat at the end, you could improve it like this:
Half-Drow Fighter 1 / Shadow Monk 5 / Battle Master 3 / Shadow Monk 9 / Rogue 2 (Total: Shadow Monk 16 / Battle Master Fighter 4 / Rogue 2)
Starting Stats (Point Buy): 17 Dex / 16 Wis / 16 Con
ASIs: Elven Accuracy & 18 Dex @5, 20 Dex @8, 18 Wis @12, 20 Wis @16
Maneuvers: Tripping Attack, Riposte, Brace
Fighting Style: Blind-Fighting
And taking two Rogue levels is hardly the only good move possible here - you could grab Cleric 2 or Rogue 1/Cleric 1 and do a lot with either (Cleric 1 is usually an excellent dip for anyone with the stats for it).
Ha! Now that is truly complicated.
But the major downside to going with blindsight is the short range. Just taking 2 levels of warlock lets the shadow monk enjoy most of their features and spam advantage on their ranged cantrip.
Also, the annoying "should you really be able to recognize targets between your 10 ft blindsight and the edge of the darkness spell" question is sidestepped, making things simpler.
"Just take two levels of warlock"...."It won't have any effect on the playability of your monk"...."Trust me"
This shit ain't free, but you talk about it like everyone just starts the game with 2 levels of Warlock.
The man probably starts all his campaigns at level 7+ lol so does not feel the pain of people that start campaigns at levels 1-3
take it after 5th or 6th level of monk if you aren't starting at level 4 or so.
Or just don't a shadow monk with devil's sight, which is the whole point of the thread.
You mean 3 attacks with close to half the chance of hitting compared to 2 slightly weaker attacks at most with a much higher chance of hitting.
But sure. it's easily to marginalize these things in favor of the build that you really like.
But Wait. It's not necessarily 2 slightly weaker attacks with higher attack against 2 attacks with lower attack. It's actually 3 attacks vs. 3 attacks if all we care about is hitting the opponent. Further, if your going to call the difference in damage negligible from 1d8 to 1d10... Or even 1d6 to 1d8 as you did in your measurement about how monks damage doesn't really improve past level 6. That means the damage difference is negligible between Eldritch Blast and MA from a Monk. Also while we're considering such things. the Monks Damage is actually higher. Because Even if you take Agonizing blast as your second Invocation. That's only a +1 to the damage. 1d10+1 is an average damage of 6 basically (6.5 when people are trying to get somewhat technical) per blast. The Monk with +4 to +5 is looking at an average damage of 7-8 on a d6 and 8-9 on a d8.
Two Blasts from Eldritch Blast on average is going to net you 12 damage (13 being somewhat technical). Two hits from MA is doing 14-16 on a d6, and 16-18 on a d8.
When you add in the third eldritch blast your looking at an average damage of 18. The Same as just two hits from MA without even considering the potential 3rd attack that monks can easily do without expending a resource. Eldritch Blast Has to get up to level 11 and land all 3 just to match the average damage of the Monk's two MA hits. (For those that are curious and want numbers. MA doing 3 hits thanks to the bonus action attack is doing 21-24 average on a d6 and 24-27 on a d8. This third hit does interfere with Shadow Step and vice versa but shadow step is hardly the only way to get advantage luckily.)
Eldritch Blast only comes out notably ahead if the character is at least level 17 and All 4 of it's Eldritch Blasts hit and is compared only to 2 attacks of MA, and/or you increase the Charisma forcing you to need to use up more vital ASI's... Which you have now offset by taking two levels of which also incidentally created a situation where you actually get 1 less ASI by level 20...
And then when we throw in other factors besides Damage. Like the Potential for Stunning Strike, which if it works not only generates automatic advantage for the second strike but potentially action economy for not having to defend or disengage from that target, but also generates Advantage for other members of the party if they target that individual.
your Really in a situation that all the only way that Eldritch Blast in this unoptimized configuration is only doing one thing in a superior way. Generating a Ranged attack. Which if you are only wanting to generate a ranged attack. Pick up a short bow. it's range is almost as long(80/320 vs 120). it uses stats that your already focusing in to help maximize your damage without further stat investment or additional class levels. Also your automatically proficient with it as a monk since it's a simple weapon and it doesn't have the Heavy or special property so you can use Dedicated Weapon on it which turns it into a monk weapon.
Half the chance? That isn't how the math works.
Say you are attacking an enemy with an ac of 15. At level 5, your eldritch blast would have at least a +4 to hit (assuming you're dedicated to having the lowest possible char score), while a shot with a shortbow would have a +7.
That means the eldritch blast needs to roll an 11 or higher, while the shortbow needs to roll an 8 or higher. That isn't close to "half the chance." Its a 45% chance for the eldritch blast and 60% chance for the shortbow, which is only a 15% difference. And the chances for both go up dramatically if you are specifically abusing the unseen attacker rule for advantage, which is the whole point of this thread.
That difference can go up to 20% if dex is maxed out and char is never touched, but while that isn't ideal, it still isn't as massive 50%. a magic shortbow could even take that farther, but even a +3 bow wouldn't get to a 50% difference.
You're really over-estimating the difference in hit chance.
How is it 3 attacks vs 3 attacks? There is no way for a shadow monk to give themselves a 3rd ranged attack.
1d10 and 1d6 from Hex is a lot bigger than 1d6+4. Its the difference between a short sword and a greatsword. Throw in hex blade's curse and the eldritch blast has an improved crit range and at least a +1 to damage too. But if you are really focused on landing hits rather than dealing damage, hex and hex blade's curse help the monk with a shortbow too. Its still a plus for the character.
But lets also be realistic here; a monk who isn't a dedicated archer is going to occasionally have to go through the pain of switching weapons to use their bow in combat, especially if they are using monk weapons at those lower levels do get some d8 or d10 hits in. That means that in a lot of combats, its the difference between taking a hand off a staff for an eldritch blast vs just not making a ranged attack that opening turn.
And there are the famous naked prison escapes all monk players salivate over, cause they get to shine. You might not have your shortbow if you shawshank a prison break, but they can't take eldritch blast from you.
So even if a shadow monk with 2 levels of warlock doesn't exclusively use eldritch blast over their bow, its a useful option.
You can't stunning strike with a ranged attack, so its not a real concern. Now if you really just want to play a stun bot for a hardcore combat game, I guess it would make sense to avoid multiclassing altogether, but the point of this thread is finding a way to pick up Devil's Sight to spam the unseen attacker rule, and there is only one means of doing that.
I'll let you in on a secret; you're proficient with eldritch blast if you take levels in Warlock too.
I'll just end by mentioning there would be a cool factor to all this for me. I would reflavor my eldritch blast. Im a shadow monk: I probably want to be a ninja. So my eldtrich blasts will be played off as shuriken, or ki enfused throwing weapons. Ones I can use despite still having my staff in my other hand. When I use the shield spell or smite from my hexblade classes, its part of my ninja training and another trick or technique.
I play a 9th level Shadow Monk in our current campaign. Instead of an ASI, I took the feat Eldritch Adept and picked up Devil's Sight after clearing it with the DM. I figured the combo of Eldritch Sight and Darkness would be unstoppable, even OP especially since we have a Hexblade Warlock in our group. I had visions of the two of us being a shock commando team, wiping up the bad guys. It has NOT turned out that way. The darkness being so large an area has made it difficult to use without blinding the other party members. I use it much less than I expected I would. I only combo it maybe once every 3 or 4 games. I've actually used silence on the backline magic users more. Also, I find being a Monk and dipping into other classes not to be great. Monks get so many great things, especially at each level after 6th, it's hard to pass up. If you want Devil's Sight, take the feat Eldritch Adept. Don't multiclass into Warlock. If you REALLY want to multiclass, take 1 level of Fighter and take the fighting style Blind Fighting and save your ASI for increasing Dex or Wis. That way you'll also get Second Wind which is great for a Monk. Just be sure to take Monk first, then the multiclass. Or multiclass 2 levels into Rogue for Cunning Action. Remember, if you multiclass, though, that's KI points you don't get and that will hurt, especially in your early levels
To be fair, the option of taking the Eldritch Adept feat instead of multiclassing to get Devil's Sight is only on the table if you clear it with the DM (which, you did in your case, but I do not know the DM Kronzy would be playing with) since RAW a Shadow Monk cant take the feat
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I will just say that i am currently in a campaign as a shadow monk + warlock (celestial). It is very fun. I chose this combination to have a little healing, devil sight, darkness, and shadow step. Turns out, I rarely ended up using the darkness+devil sight - mostly because, as mentioned above, it blinded all of my party. Though the first time i did it (phandelver adventure) - clearing out orcs and ogres in a cave- it worked great. i kept out of range as best i could and use eldritch blast. The other party members were a bit bored, but picked off anyone who came out of the darkness.
Most other times i have tried this, it worked poorly for some reason (enemy had blindsight, or there was a dispel magic used, etc.)
And though i ended up not using darkness as much as i expected (it is now my last resort/escape plan), i use the devil sight all the time - so i am glad i took it.
Overall, I love the character. between monk, invocations, and spells - I have lots of quirky abilities that come in handy at different times. Most of my stuff also resets after only a short rest - so that is pretty awesome too. But i am definitely missing out on the higher level abilities my other party members have.
How much does blinding allies really matter though? It messes with spells that require sight, sure, but any disadvantage on attack rolls are nullified by the opponent also being blinded.