Monk damage tends to fall off the more magic items introduced into a game unless the DM is cool homebrewing some stuff. There really aren't many good options for the monk. Otherwise they're fairly completive if you're using Tasha's optional features. If you're not, well that's a bummer because they're really good.
Unless you are playing a campaign that gets to high levels, unarmed fighting looks like a fantastic damage increase for a monk if you are a V human. You are getting to do 2(1d8+Dex) every round from level 1. Level 2 you get flurry of blows twice per short rest for 3(1d8+Dex) vs a fighter needing its once per short rest action surge just to grant them 2 attacks. By level 5 you get 3(1d8+Dex) every turn and 4(1d8+Dex) time times per short rest, while the fighter can only do 3 attacks by using it's one action surge or dual wielding.
At level 5, with +4 modifier and not counting chance to hit, monk is getting about 25.5 average damage every round and can do 34 average damage 5 times per short rest with Flurry of Blows. For fighter using a greatsword at the same level, they get 22 average damage every round and can nova for 33 damage once per short rest. Now if you take GWM and can reliably hit, then fighter damage soars past this punchy monk. But otherwise, super punch monk is great for Tier 1 content and fine in Tier 2 in terms of damage.
Even though using a spear grants you 1d8 already, you cant use a spear for flurry if blows or your bonus action attack.
Most people don't make it to higher levels, and this feat on a monk thrives in lower level content. If you do make it to high levels, swap the fighting style for blind fighting, dueling, or the battle maneuvers one to gain some utility.
Most people don't make it to higher levels, and this feat on a monk thrives in lower level content. If you do make it to high levels, swap the fighting style for blind fighting, dueling, or the battle maneuvers one to gain some utility.
The ideal level to swap Unarmed Fighting Style is level 5. Dueling is just better afterwards, 100% +2 to two attacks (extra attack) is better than maybe +1 but only if you spend ki.
Unarmed Fighting Style is for people who want to spec into solely unarmed combat, not for people looking for high damage numbers.
edit: and at level 4 you're probably better off grabbing mobile or an ASI. Most monks are MAD and all that.
What is a monk for you? Maybe a master of martial arts? Because a fighter is one too. The "battle master" demonstrates this very well, after all, martial arts translates as the art of Mars, that is, the art of war.
What makes the monk different is the spiritual capacity that allows him to overcome the limits of the body. You can say that he is like a psionic fighter. (I admit that this is my point of view and I don't want to criticize other points of view).
I'm having fun creating a new version of the monk class. If you have any comments on my redesign you can write it on redit.com
To devise this class I thought about how much synergy there is with the rogue and cantrips attacks. Having only one action attack this allows him to use a cantrip attack while still taking advantage of the sneak attack.
The fighter is characterized by his many attacks in his attack action.
The monk is characterized by his unarmed strike and the use of ki.
This is written in the player's manual where they introduce the monk:
"The Magic of Ki:Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse specifically, the element that flows through living bodies.... "
Taking these cues I developed this concept:
Martial arts: You can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. <<As a spell with bonus action time, can be performed before or after the action, and don't need to perform an attack action to be executed. >>
Flurry of Blows: You can spend 1 ki power to make one more unarmed strikes on your turn. <<I decided to leave the freedom to choose between action and bonus action.>>
Extra Unarmed Attack: Beginning at 5th level, after attacking with your bonus action unarmed strikes or with your secondary weapon, you can make an unarmed strikes as part of the same bonus action.
I've added more changes to the class.
To let it easily take advantage of its mobility I added to martial arts:
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space, provided the target is no more than one size larger than you.
To make it more involved in group actions, I turned its special features for personal use to features that can also be used to help the group.
To make the class more interesting I added Martial style that is a version for the monk of the fighting style of the fighter / ranger / paladin.
At 15th level, I added a feature (Dao of Slaughter) that allows the monk to use its advantage to do more damage, so as to make up for the damage imbalance of the monk at higher levels.
This in addition to making the monk class more practical would make it interesting to the magical classes that want to fight in melee. If you have any critiques I would be delighted to hear them.
Monks are much better than fighters, and your 5000 page rant somehow left out a few things. For one, a monks maximum speed is 420 feet(if aarakocra), they can have up to 280 HP(if hill dwarf), and the ability empty self also grants you resistance to all damage.
not to mention they have great subclasses that could trump any sort of battle master or arcane archer, and they don't depend on any weapons or armor. (guess what! a monk can beat plate armor without spending 1500 gp! 😱)
and you, "my friend" have a very one-sided way of thinking. You assume that the only good abilities are combat ones, well NEWS FLASH!!! ever heard of something called role playing? not only does it put the r and p in rpg, but it's also part of d&d favorite slogan: "the worlds greatest ROLE PLAYING game."
I've been working for over a month trying to find a viable strategy for a Monk, but I have come to the conclusion that they have been nerfed into the void.
They are now completely outclassed by a STYLE of fighter with the Optional Fighting Style: Unarmed Combat
The Fighter will do a d8 Unarmed+Str with both hands free. The Monk will start out with a d4+Str OR Dex until he eventually gets a d8+Str OR Dex at ELEVENTH LEVEL
The Fighter acquires the Extra Attack Feature as the Monk does at Level 5, but ultimately beat the Monk by having Action Surge at Level 2.
Additionally, the fighter will have a THIRD attack at Level 20. Add to that Action Surge 2 at Level 17 and he wins. The Monk only has Flurry of Ineffectual blows.
The fighter will have SEVEN Ability Score Increases/Feats over his 20 Levels. The Monk will have FOUR Ability Score Increase/Feats over his 20 Levels.
The Fighter will have 200 pts Max HP and the Monk has a 160 pts Max HP. That isn't even counting that the fighter has a preferred stat being Constitution.
The Fighter has a maximum movement of 30 feet. The Monk can move a maximum of 60 feet. FINALLY, one win.
A large CHUNK of the Monks other features are more feel good than anything, but do have some small merit:
Deflect Missiles would be great IF the Monk could effectively use Long Range Weapons. It ultimately makes him a target that just needs to be beaten to death in person.
Slow Fall MIGHT have a use. But how many times are you going to fall into a bear trap?
Stunning Strike would be a BIG win, but it is limited by the requirement for Ki which is also needed for Flurry of Blows and any other special feature the Monk has.
Stillness of Mind. If it were that important wouldn't it have been easier to be an Elf instead of waiting until 7th Level? You wouldn't even have to waste one of your actions then.
Purity of Body. At 10th level if you have survived, you finally get immunity to disease and poison. But you still have soft d6 hands.
Tongue of Sun and Moon. Great. You can talk to everyone. Maybe it will help with begging for your life while your Fighter brother over there just got Indomitable 2!
You FINALLY made it to 15th level and you have acquired Timeless Body! Great you don't age and don't eat or drink. Tell me how that is going to keep you out of the dragon's stomach?
EIGHTEENTH LEVEL you just got an invisibility spell or a way to escape to the Astral Plane where Githyanki can kill you.
Here is the most damning thing about them: Good luck finding a magic item to salvage these weak and pathetic creatures. The Loot tables are NOT in your favor.
Now you can argue that the Monk has high mobility and high survivability in a combat and is meant to be a back line skirmisher or that you are doing it for the aesthetic or roleplay purposes. But if you are playing the HERO of a story, wouldn't you like to actually be able to take out the enemy?
HOW can a Monk compete with fighter with the Unarmed Combat option? Convince me I'm wrong.
BTW this is what im talking about in my post above
It’s all relative to what you want out of D&D. I beg to differ because my monk kicks @@@. I wouldn’t play another class until my DM wants to off me. So if you hate monk class so much play a bard. Go amuse yourself which is in theory what D&D is based on. Or go read a good book and have at it.
Lots of personal jabs without much punch - just like a monk.
All of those wonderful points you are making work great if you can max all your stats to 20. However, if you are playing with Standard Array that is NEVER going to happen. Enjoy roleplaying as a twitching dying cockroach. A fighter class would look equally terrifying with maxed out stats and who cares about trying to shame him for what he wears. In other words, great show of words and bragging, but no math to support it. Additionally, your monk gets crap for magic items and weapons if you ever want to switch over.
While I agree with you that monks do need some improvement (which we are seeing in the UA) I don’t tend to agree that monks are as bad as many make them out. If you are optimizing then yes, monks fall way behind. But at non-optimized tables (which I think are probably the majority among the millions of players) it’s an ok class. Not great, but ok.
I still think fighters make good brawlers but once resistance to bludgeoning damage starts popping up they are in trouble fighting strictly unarmed. With only a few magic items to help, if you are lucky or have a DM that gives out magic items picked specifically for your character (which they can do for the monk as well).
I'd agree that almost everyone who bashes Monks and tries to claim they are useless obviously hasn't played one, or lacks the understanding of HOW to play one. I have played my Monk for 13 levels now and yes, at times, he was "underpowered" so far as pure DPR went, with a Fighter and Barbarian fighting beside me. However the general build of the Monk gave me high Dex based skills and a variety of abilities I could use in different situations to make myself relevant. A lot of folks struggle to understand class mechanics for anything outside of smashing enemies, so to claim Monks are useless, at that one bit of the game, might be valid.
I'd say that in any game that is well run, a Monk will be a viable, contributing member of the group. If your DM runs things that are almost all hack and slash, a lot of other options will likely be better, as a Monk isn't a class designed or intended to stand in the face of foes flailing away, blow for blow until someone falls. We dart in and out of combat, taking shots at foes where we will be of best use (maybe a Stunning Strike on a pesky caster) Patient Defense, while not usually our BEST choice, has it's place, when we get stuck in the midst of a collection of enemies, Step of the Wind is option 2, to allow me to "get outta Dodge!" when needed. Immunity to poison and disease is again, situational, but in our campaign, it did come into play a couple times and helped. Also, the Empty Mind meant that our DM's mind controlling enemy brigade failed epically, as myself and our Berserker Barbarian just ignored their ability and kicked the crap out of them.
Monk may not be the plainly obvious force a Fighter or Barbarian is, but to simply write them off, based on weak theorycrafting and NOT actually playing one in a decent campaign is silly. Basic numbers and math crunching will give you an idea of how the class might measure up in a basic combat, but there is no math machine to actually determine what your character might be able to contribute to the group. Bash away and stick to the basic classes that don't require a lot of thinking and creativity to play. I would gladly play a Monk again and have a great time doing so.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
As someone who has a level 12 Monk, and a DM who isn't a fan of Monks with magic items, I've had to hoe a hard field to get here.
I love my monk. I would have to because compared to the fighter and the barbarian in our band, my main purpose is to go in, distract, stun, nearly die, and run away so the fighter can have the kill.
This isn't a one or two-time thing. Both our cleric and our druid have had more coup de Gras kills than my monk has. And do not tell me I don't know how to play a monk because I generally am in every battle toe-to-toe and have saved every party member at least twice. So yeah. I can kick ass. Or at least... until everything we faced had a resistance to pummeling, or had such high con scores my stunning strikes became a "not so stunning maybe it came off strike burn through my ki to land one actual stunning strike now i got nothing in the tank", and... Oh look, the fighter killed it for me. Again. And Again. And... oh Wait... that one was by the Druid with gattling gun crossbow of doom arrow. Monks are not bad. Just, we get to a point where kick ass for 50 seconds and... that's it, we're done. It's largely because we don't scale and every DM thinks Stunning Strike will break a campaign even though most things which it would "break" can pass the Save needed over 50% of the time. Adding to this foaming at the mouth fear of SS is the rumor in play test SS will be limited to once a turn. So, yeah, your a monk. Your basically support level slightly higher than an NPC with a frying pan.
I'm mostly exagerating but, you get the point. You play a monk... You're not gonna be the hero. Ever. Unless the DM specifically crafts something for you being hero is not gonna happen. Even if you manage to save the party, or stun the big bad, youkill, the do-or-die moment is going to someone else. You'll be either already dead or spent and healing. Monk is the snow pants of classes and I say that as someone who dearly loves their monk. Anyone who sells you some garbage about how you're not playing them right if you're not getting your hero moment is playing another game.
As someone who has a level 12 Monk, and a DM who isn't a fan of Monks with magic items, I've had to hoe a hard field to get here.
I love my monk. I would have to because compared to the fighter and the barbarian in our band, my main purpose is to go in, distract, stun, nearly die, and run away so the fighter can have the kill.
This isn't a one or two-time thing. Both our cleric and our druid have had more coup de Gras kills than my monk has. And do not tell me I don't know how to play a monk because I generally am in every battle toe-to-toe and have saved every party member at least twice. So yeah. I can kick ass. Or at least... until everything we faced had a resistance to pummeling, or had such high con scores my stunning strikes became a "not so stunning maybe it came off strike burn through my ki to land one actual stunning strike now i got nothing in the tank", and... Oh look, the fighter killed it for me. Again. And Again. And... oh Wait... that one was by the Druid with gattling gun crossbow of doom arrow. Monks are not bad. Just, we get to a point where kick ass for 50 seconds and... that's it, we're done. It's largely because we don't scale and every DM thinks Stunning Strike will break a campaign even though most things which it would "break" can pass the Save needed over 50% of the time. Adding to this foaming at the mouth fear of SS is the rumor in play test SS will be limited to once a turn. So, yeah, your a monk. Your basically support level slightly higher than an NPC with a frying pan.
I'm mostly exagerating but, you get the point. You play a monk... You're not gonna be the hero. Ever. Unless the DM specifically crafts something for you being hero is not gonna happen. Even if you manage to save the party, or stun the big bad, youkill, the do-or-die moment is going to someone else. You'll be either already dead or spent and healing. Monk is the snow pants of classes and I say that as someone who dearly loves their monk. Anyone who sells you some garbage about how you're not playing them right if you're not getting your hero moment is playing another game.
I think this is something that is pushing me to want to play monk as a support character. Like a mercy monk centaur who chooses a master to act as a mount and butler to.
My Open Hand Monk has more "kills" ie: final blows, than either our Barbarian or our Fighter. It's more a case of how he damage gets dealt and who is making that final swing, to take those last 8 HP from the enemy. My To Hit bonus is as high or higher than theirs and my damage, while below them overall, is sufficient for those low HP kill shots and since I scurry around the battlefield, assisting them both as they try to hold and enemy on place, I tend to get more opportunities at that final whack, I guess.
I agree, where our Fighter or Barbarian could use their turn to take an enemy over 50HP left to a corpse and I can't is noticeable. Maybe it's just dumb luck that so often a less than impressive strike (whack him with my staff for 12 or some such) results in a dead foe. I agree, and have seen our Fighter burn his Action Surge, post 11 and literally carve to pieces a foe who, at the beginning of his turn was ready and able for a big fight. Yes, making 6 big swings with a beefy 2 hander IS a lot more devastating than what my little Monk can do. I don't get many "glory" moments in combat. Through creative use of my other skills and abilities, I have had a number of chances to offer a creative solution to a challenge, sometimes to the chagrin of our DM.
I think part of the Monk is that to "shine" the DM does kind of have to spoon feed you some situations. Basic combat glory is a little out of our league. We do our fair share of damage, but nothing to WOW anyone, unless we string together a few crits somehow, lol. But a large pit in the tunnel, that allows the Monk to run along the wall to the other side, a particularly speedy enemy trying to flee, any other kind of scenario hat plays to a Monk's strengths. Always LOOKING for a chance to use your skills helps.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Monk is fine IMO. Weak in tier 2, but much stronger than other non-casters in tier 4+ and pretty much about equal everywhere else. I have played a lot of Monks, including one from level 1-20.
Here is some ki pieces of advice for making a successful Monk (see what I did there :-):
1. Limit Martial Arts and almost never use FOB. Martial Arts are not mechanically good unless you get a subclass that makes better use of it like Open Hand or Astral Self (and those are generally weaker subclasses). At low levels you don't have a lot of Ki and FOB is a really weak use of ki. At high levels you have plenty of ki but FOB and martial arts are weak compared to other ways to use your bonus action. Also FOB at high levels is not going to be much better than Ki-Fueled attack. FOB is one extra martial arts attack which might hit and might miss. From a damage per ki point of view, you are better off spending that ki on focused aim on your action to turn a weapon miss into an automatic hit that does more damage than your extra FOB attack would even if it did hit AND enabling Ki-Fueled Attack which will do more if it hits than your first martial arts attack would do. Which brings me to:
2. Use Ki-Fueled Attack. Ki-Fueled Attack does not cost ki, but lets you attack with a weapon when you already used ki. As DM, often I see Monks burn a ki point on Stunning Strike or focused aim as part of their action and then they make a martial arts or FOB as a bonus action. WHY???? Your weapons will outdamage your Martial arts. At low level weapons just do more damage than martial arts. At high level when your martial arts die is high your Monk weapons can use that die and get magic weapon bonuses on top of that. If you use a ki during your action (for anything) you should never use martial arts as your bonus action. At high level if you are attacking with your bonus action you should be using Ki-fueled attack most of the time.
3. Prioritize Wisdom for your ASIs. Your most powerful ability is stunning strike, when you use it you want it to stick. As such buff Wisdom first, having a better save DC on SS (and any other subclass abilities) is better than having a little bit more damage. I see some players prioritize Dexterity and others even prioritize Constitution before Wisdom. This is a mistake IME. Getting the mobile feat is also a huge mistake. You are giving up AC and save DC to be able to do something you can use a ki and bonus action for and do better.
4. Use Patient Defense. Patient Defense is the second most generally powerful ki ability you have as a Monk (the other being stunning strike). As discussed above, Martial Arts is weak, use it only when you have nothing better to do with your bonus or you need to save ki.
5. Don't be afraid of AOOs and use Patient Defense instead of Step of the Wind-Disengage to counter them. A Monk is about mobility, don't let the fear of an AOO paralyze you, especially if 1 AOO will let you move out of range of a multiattack. Also if you use Patient Defense the AOO is at disadvantage and so are all other attacks against you in the next round. This is usually better than disengaging and disabling one or even a few AOOs. With the Monk's speed you can actually use Patient Defense and provoke enemies AOOs to burn their reaction so other PCs don't have to worry about it. You might get hit, but with disadvantage you usually probably won't and the other PC who can't impose disadvantage won't be threatened at all regardless.
6. Use the magic weapons no one else wants - There are a ton of magic staffs and magic daggers and your other front liners probably don't want them. You get to replace the damage with martial arts die. This makes things like a Dragontooth Dagger or Spider Staff awesome in the hands of a Monk, especially since you are going to attack 3 times a round with it quite often as low as 5th level.
This is some really great advice! Especially that last point....TBH I had never thought of that with the martial arts dice replacing it....there is so often in a game where we have this random weapon we picked up that noone can use but you make an excellent point here!
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Monk damage tends to fall off the more magic items introduced into a game unless the DM is cool homebrewing some stuff. There really aren't many good options for the monk. Otherwise they're fairly completive if you're using Tasha's optional features. If you're not, well that's a bummer because they're really good.
Unless you are playing a campaign that gets to high levels, unarmed fighting looks like a fantastic damage increase for a monk if you are a V human. You are getting to do 2(1d8+Dex) every round from level 1. Level 2 you get flurry of blows twice per short rest for 3(1d8+Dex) vs a fighter needing its once per short rest action surge just to grant them 2 attacks. By level 5 you get 3(1d8+Dex) every turn and 4(1d8+Dex) time times per short rest, while the fighter can only do 3 attacks by using it's one action surge or dual wielding.
At level 5, with +4 modifier and not counting chance to hit, monk is getting about 25.5 average damage every round and can do 34 average damage 5 times per short rest with Flurry of Blows. For fighter using a greatsword at the same level, they get 22 average damage every round and can nova for 33 damage once per short rest. Now if you take GWM and can reliably hit, then fighter damage soars past this punchy monk. But otherwise, super punch monk is great for Tier 1 content and fine in Tier 2 in terms of damage.
Even though using a spear grants you 1d8 already, you cant use a spear for flurry if blows or your bonus action attack.
Most people don't make it to higher levels, and this feat on a monk thrives in lower level content. If you do make it to high levels, swap the fighting style for blind fighting, dueling, or the battle maneuvers one to gain some utility.
The ideal level to swap Unarmed Fighting Style is level 5. Dueling is just better afterwards, 100% +2 to two attacks (extra attack) is better than maybe +1 but only if you spend ki.
Unarmed Fighting Style is for people who want to spec into solely unarmed combat, not for people looking for high damage numbers.
edit: and at level 4 you're probably better off grabbing mobile or an ASI. Most monks are MAD and all that.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
What is a monk for you? Maybe a master of martial arts? Because a fighter is one too. The "battle master" demonstrates this very well, after all, martial arts translates as the art of Mars, that is, the art of war.
What makes the monk different is the spiritual capacity that allows him to overcome the limits of the body. You can say that he is like a psionic fighter. (I admit that this is my point of view and I don't want to criticize other points of view).
I'm having fun creating a new version of the monk class. If you have any comments on my redesign you can write it on redit.com
https://www.reddit.com//r/UnearthedArcana/comments/uj7jjp/the_monk_is_a_different_class_from_the_fighter_it/
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Mz734bN8gWVYvErwFpw
To devise this class I thought about how much synergy there is with the rogue and cantrips attacks. Having only one action attack this allows him to use a cantrip attack while still taking advantage of the sneak attack.
The fighter is characterized by his many attacks in his attack action.
The monk is characterized by his unarmed strike and the use of ki.
This is written in the player's manual where they introduce the monk:
"The Magic of Ki: Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse specifically, the element that flows through living bodies.... "
Taking these cues I developed this concept:
I've added more changes to the class.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space, provided the target is no more than one size larger than you.
This in addition to making the monk class more practical would make it interesting to the magical classes that want to fight in melee. If you have any critiques I would be delighted to hear them.
I disagree with you.
Monks are much better than fighters, and your 5000 page rant somehow left out a few things. For one, a monks maximum speed is 420 feet(if aarakocra), they can have up to 280 HP(if hill dwarf), and the ability empty self also grants you resistance to all damage.
not to mention they have great subclasses that could trump any sort of battle master or arcane archer, and they don't depend on any weapons or armor. (guess what! a monk can beat plate armor without spending 1500 gp! 😱)
and you, "my friend" have a very one-sided way of thinking. You assume that the only good abilities are combat ones, well NEWS FLASH!!! ever heard of something called role playing? not only does it put the r and p in rpg, but it's also part of d&d favorite slogan: "the worlds greatest ROLE PLAYING game."
in conclusion:
monk=
fighter= 
BTW this is what im talking about in my post above
very true. monks are total bs
It’s all relative to what you want out of D&D. I beg to differ because my monk kicks @@@. I wouldn’t play another class until my DM wants to off me. So if you hate monk class so much play a bard. Go amuse yourself which is in theory what D&D is based on. Or go read a good book and have at it.
When you run into creatures that have resistance to bludgeoning damage from 6th level on?
And the upcoming changes in September will definitely help
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Lots of personal jabs without much punch - just like a monk.
All of those wonderful points you are making work great if you can max all your stats to 20. However, if you are playing with Standard Array that is NEVER going to happen. Enjoy roleplaying as a twitching dying cockroach. A fighter class would look equally terrifying with maxed out stats and who cares about trying to shame him for what he wears. In other words, great show of words and bragging, but no math to support it. Additionally, your monk gets crap for magic items and weapons if you ever want to switch over.
While I agree with you that monks do need some improvement (which we are seeing in the UA) I don’t tend to agree that monks are as bad as many make them out. If you are optimizing then yes, monks fall way behind. But at non-optimized tables (which I think are probably the majority among the millions of players) it’s an ok class. Not great, but ok.
I still think fighters make good brawlers but once resistance to bludgeoning damage starts popping up they are in trouble fighting strictly unarmed. With only a few magic items to help, if you are lucky or have a DM that gives out magic items picked specifically for your character (which they can do for the monk as well).
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I'd agree that almost everyone who bashes Monks and tries to claim they are useless obviously hasn't played one, or lacks the understanding of HOW to play one. I have played my Monk for 13 levels now and yes, at times, he was "underpowered" so far as pure DPR went, with a Fighter and Barbarian fighting beside me. However the general build of the Monk gave me high Dex based skills and a variety of abilities I could use in different situations to make myself relevant. A lot of folks struggle to understand class mechanics for anything outside of smashing enemies, so to claim Monks are useless, at that one bit of the game, might be valid.
I'd say that in any game that is well run, a Monk will be a viable, contributing member of the group. If your DM runs things that are almost all hack and slash, a lot of other options will likely be better, as a Monk isn't a class designed or intended to stand in the face of foes flailing away, blow for blow until someone falls. We dart in and out of combat, taking shots at foes where we will be of best use (maybe a Stunning Strike on a pesky caster) Patient Defense, while not usually our BEST choice, has it's place, when we get stuck in the midst of a collection of enemies, Step of the Wind is option 2, to allow me to "get outta Dodge!" when needed. Immunity to poison and disease is again, situational, but in our campaign, it did come into play a couple times and helped. Also, the Empty Mind meant that our DM's mind controlling enemy brigade failed epically, as myself and our Berserker Barbarian just ignored their ability and kicked the crap out of them.
Monk may not be the plainly obvious force a Fighter or Barbarian is, but to simply write them off, based on weak theorycrafting and NOT actually playing one in a decent campaign is silly. Basic numbers and math crunching will give you an idea of how the class might measure up in a basic combat, but there is no math machine to actually determine what your character might be able to contribute to the group. Bash away and stick to the basic classes that don't require a lot of thinking and creativity to play. I would gladly play a Monk again and have a great time doing so.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
As someone who has a level 12 Monk, and a DM who isn't a fan of Monks with magic items, I've had to hoe a hard field to get here.
I love my monk. I would have to because compared to the fighter and the barbarian in our band, my main purpose is to go in, distract, stun, nearly die, and run away so the fighter can have the kill.
This isn't a one or two-time thing. Both our cleric and our druid have had more coup de Gras kills than my monk has. And do not tell me I don't know how to play a monk because I generally am in every battle toe-to-toe and have saved every party member at least twice. So yeah. I can kick ass. Or at least... until everything we faced had a resistance to pummeling, or had such high con scores my stunning strikes became a "not so stunning maybe it came off strike burn through my ki to land one actual stunning strike now i got nothing in the tank", and... Oh look, the fighter killed it for me. Again. And Again. And... oh Wait... that one was by the Druid with gattling gun crossbow of doom arrow. Monks are not bad. Just, we get to a point where kick ass for 50 seconds and... that's it, we're done. It's largely because we don't scale and every DM thinks Stunning Strike will break a campaign even though most things which it would "break" can pass the Save needed over 50% of the time. Adding to this foaming at the mouth fear of SS is the rumor in play test SS will be limited to once a turn. So, yeah, your a monk. Your basically support level slightly higher than an NPC with a frying pan.
I'm mostly exagerating but, you get the point. You play a monk... You're not gonna be the hero. Ever. Unless the DM specifically crafts something for you being hero is not gonna happen. Even if you manage to save the party, or stun the big bad, youkill, the do-or-die moment is going to someone else. You'll be either already dead or spent and healing. Monk is the snow pants of classes and I say that as someone who dearly loves their monk. Anyone who sells you some garbage about how you're not playing them right if you're not getting your hero moment is playing another game.
I think this is something that is pushing me to want to play monk as a support character. Like a mercy monk centaur who chooses a master to act as a mount and butler to.
My Open Hand Monk has more "kills" ie: final blows, than either our Barbarian or our Fighter. It's more a case of how he damage gets dealt and who is making that final swing, to take those last 8 HP from the enemy. My To Hit bonus is as high or higher than theirs and my damage, while below them overall, is sufficient for those low HP kill shots and since I scurry around the battlefield, assisting them both as they try to hold and enemy on place, I tend to get more opportunities at that final whack, I guess.
I agree, where our Fighter or Barbarian could use their turn to take an enemy over 50HP left to a corpse and I can't is noticeable. Maybe it's just dumb luck that so often a less than impressive strike (whack him with my staff for 12 or some such) results in a dead foe. I agree, and have seen our Fighter burn his Action Surge, post 11 and literally carve to pieces a foe who, at the beginning of his turn was ready and able for a big fight. Yes, making 6 big swings with a beefy 2 hander IS a lot more devastating than what my little Monk can do. I don't get many "glory" moments in combat. Through creative use of my other skills and abilities, I have had a number of chances to offer a creative solution to a challenge, sometimes to the chagrin of our DM.
I think part of the Monk is that to "shine" the DM does kind of have to spoon feed you some situations. Basic combat glory is a little out of our league. We do our fair share of damage, but nothing to WOW anyone, unless we string together a few crits somehow, lol. But a large pit in the tunnel, that allows the Monk to run along the wall to the other side, a particularly speedy enemy trying to flee, any other kind of scenario hat plays to a Monk's strengths. Always LOOKING for a chance to use your skills helps.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Monk is fine IMO. Weak in tier 2, but much stronger than other non-casters in tier 4+ and pretty much about equal everywhere else. I have played a lot of Monks, including one from level 1-20.
Here is some ki pieces of advice for making a successful Monk (see what I did there :-):
1. Limit Martial Arts and almost never use FOB. Martial Arts are not mechanically good unless you get a subclass that makes better use of it like Open Hand or Astral Self (and those are generally weaker subclasses). At low levels you don't have a lot of Ki and FOB is a really weak use of ki. At high levels you have plenty of ki but FOB and martial arts are weak compared to other ways to use your bonus action. Also FOB at high levels is not going to be much better than Ki-Fueled attack. FOB is one extra martial arts attack which might hit and might miss. From a damage per ki point of view, you are better off spending that ki on focused aim on your action to turn a weapon miss into an automatic hit that does more damage than your extra FOB attack would even if it did hit AND enabling Ki-Fueled Attack which will do more if it hits than your first martial arts attack would do. Which brings me to:
2. Use Ki-Fueled Attack. Ki-Fueled Attack does not cost ki, but lets you attack with a weapon when you already used ki. As DM, often I see Monks burn a ki point on Stunning Strike or focused aim as part of their action and then they make a martial arts or FOB as a bonus action. WHY???? Your weapons will outdamage your Martial arts. At low level weapons just do more damage than martial arts. At high level when your martial arts die is high your Monk weapons can use that die and get magic weapon bonuses on top of that. If you use a ki during your action (for anything) you should never use martial arts as your bonus action. At high level if you are attacking with your bonus action you should be using Ki-fueled attack most of the time.
3. Prioritize Wisdom for your ASIs. Your most powerful ability is stunning strike, when you use it you want it to stick. As such buff Wisdom first, having a better save DC on SS (and any other subclass abilities) is better than having a little bit more damage. I see some players prioritize Dexterity and others even prioritize Constitution before Wisdom. This is a mistake IME. Getting the mobile feat is also a huge mistake. You are giving up AC and save DC to be able to do something you can use a ki and bonus action for and do better.
4. Use Patient Defense. Patient Defense is the second most generally powerful ki ability you have as a Monk (the other being stunning strike). As discussed above, Martial Arts is weak, use it only when you have nothing better to do with your bonus or you need to save ki.
5. Don't be afraid of AOOs and use Patient Defense instead of Step of the Wind-Disengage to counter them. A Monk is about mobility, don't let the fear of an AOO paralyze you, especially if 1 AOO will let you move out of range of a multiattack. Also if you use Patient Defense the AOO is at disadvantage and so are all other attacks against you in the next round. This is usually better than disengaging and disabling one or even a few AOOs. With the Monk's speed you can actually use Patient Defense and provoke enemies AOOs to burn their reaction so other PCs don't have to worry about it. You might get hit, but with disadvantage you usually probably won't and the other PC who can't impose disadvantage won't be threatened at all regardless.
6. Use the magic weapons no one else wants - There are a ton of magic staffs and magic daggers and your other front liners probably don't want them. You get to replace the damage with martial arts die. This makes things like a Dragontooth Dagger or Spider Staff awesome in the hands of a Monk, especially since you are going to attack 3 times a round with it quite often as low as 5th level.
This is some really great advice! Especially that last point....TBH I had never thought of that with the martial arts dice replacing it....there is so often in a game where we have this random weapon we picked up that noone can use but you make an excellent point here!