Are there any smite spells you'd recomend whose secondary effect is worth dealing less damage than plain smites and the concentration, other than wrathful smite, ensnaring smite and maybe thunderous smite?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think there could be situationally. For example, if a creature is vulnerable to fire damage, Searing smite gets much more useful. If the target is something that likes to turn invisible, branding smite to keep it visible, for you and the rest of the party, is more useful. Banishing can be good if you want to fight one enemy at a time. That sort of thing. So for raw damage, no I think the slot is probably going to be better spent on those bonus d8's, but sometimes, there might be a reason to use something else. I usually keep some smites memorized, just in case, since it seems like most paladin spells are concentration, and since you're usually up in melee and getting hit. For mw, at least, its not worth spending the slot on something like heroism or aid where you'll probably lose concentration. So I've got the smites ready in case I really need to nova on someone and want to pile on extra damage, or if they become situationally useful.
This is a nice breakdown of each smite. To be honest, every smite is useful in the right situation, but how often those situations crop up is going to be campaign specific. I try to use my straight damage smite as little as possible, because a paladin can really shine as dual front-line and support fighter. Having them ready to use will never be a disappointment. I stole this mostly from here, but I scaled down the explanations a bit.
Thunderous Smite: you only lose 2 damage on average and knocking enemies prone is worth the lost damage, but it does create a giant boom for distant ears Wrathful Smite: many critters have low Wisdom saves, and this is a great way to handicap them Searing Smite: deal ongoing damage to poor CON saves, like a spellcaster with defensive buffs, also hits them each round for concentration checks for added annoyance. Branding Smite: hit an invisible enemy if no one else can make them visible Blinding Smite: lose a 1d8 damage, but blind the target for a round Staggering Smite: trading for less psychic damage and a control effect that could be useless for a round Banishing Smite: no damage loss and the effect doesn't allow a saving throw which could dramatically affect the outcome of an encounter.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
For mw, at least, its not worth spending the slot on something like heroism or aid where you'll probably lose concentration.
hey you do know that aid does not require concentration and lasts for 8 hours right? there is no need to cast it during combat, and you can use it while also using other spells
This is a nice breakdown of each smite. To be honest, every smite is useful in the right situation, but how often those situations crop up is going to be campaign specific. I try to use my straight damage smite as little as possible, because a paladin can really shine as dual front-line and support fighter. Having them ready to use will never be a disappointment. I stole this mostly from here, but I scaled down the explanations a bit.
Thunderous Smite: you only lose 2 damage on average and knocking enemies prone is worth the lost damage, but it does create a giant boom for distant ears Wrathful Smite: many critters have low Wisdom saves, and this is a great way to handicap them Searing Smite: deal ongoing damage to poor CON saves, like a spellcaster with defensive buffs, also hits them each round for concentration checks for added annoyance. Branding Smite: hit an invisible enemy if no one else can make them visible Blinding Smite: lose a 1d8 damage, but blind the target for a round Staggering Smite: trading for less psychic damage and a control effect that could be useless for a round Banishing Smite: no damage loss and the effect doesn't allow a saving throw which could dramatically affect the outcome of an encounter.
i strongly disagree on searing smite, the target gets to make their saving throw against the effect at the start of every turn, or they could automatically end it with a single action or by using their movement to enter some nearby water, compared to ensnaring strike or wrathful smite where the victim can only attempt to escape the spell if they waste an action doing so and are not even guaranteed to escape even if they do
Similarly, branding strike deals a lot less damage than normal smite and requires you both to first correctly guess where the invisible target is hiding and then make attack with disadvantage against them until you finally hit, clearly these smite spells are not exactly created equal and that is why i asked for "worthwhile" smite spells because clearly i cannot trust wizards of the coast to make these spells as good as other spell options, like in every single way ensnaring strike is an better spell than searing smite, so what is the point to searing smite to exist other than as an low level fire spell?
sorry if i am a little impolite but it does not seem
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Your definition of worthwhile will be very different than another paladin. Wrathful smite is amazing for a conquest paladin, but might be frustrating for a sticky build where you want the opponent to focus on you. If you do not think the rider effect is worth it, then stick with the raw damage of basic smite. Easy smites to say are overall useful would be:
Thunderous if you have a couple front line melee folks who could exploit it.
Wrathful for the obvious fear reasons and getting them off you butt if you get overwhelmed.
Banishing sounds awesome, but by that level your casters are probably all over that side of things.
Smite Spells are not meant to give you more damage, they are meant to give you a possible tool for battlefield control.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Aside from the arguments for utility, smite spells do increase your damage in the short term, unless you are playing a paladin that has a bonus action attack like PAM. You can divine smite on top of a Thunderous Smite, for example. Not the most efficient damage per spell slot, long term, but it increases the damage you can do in a single turn.
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Are there any smite spells you'd recomend whose secondary effect is worth dealing less damage than plain smites and the concentration, other than wrathful smite, ensnaring smite and maybe thunderous smite?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think there could be situationally. For example, if a creature is vulnerable to fire damage, Searing smite gets much more useful. If the target is something that likes to turn invisible, branding smite to keep it visible, for you and the rest of the party, is more useful. Banishing can be good if you want to fight one enemy at a time. That sort of thing. So for raw damage, no I think the slot is probably going to be better spent on those bonus d8's, but sometimes, there might be a reason to use something else. I usually keep some smites memorized, just in case, since it seems like most paladin spells are concentration, and since you're usually up in melee and getting hit. For mw, at least, its not worth spending the slot on something like heroism or aid where you'll probably lose concentration. So I've got the smites ready in case I really need to nova on someone and want to pile on extra damage, or if they become situationally useful.
This is a nice breakdown of each smite. To be honest, every smite is useful in the right situation, but how often those situations crop up is going to be campaign specific. I try to use my straight damage smite as little as possible, because a paladin can really shine as dual front-line and support fighter. Having them ready to use will never be a disappointment. I stole this mostly from here, but I scaled down the explanations a bit.
Thunderous Smite: you only lose 2 damage on average and knocking enemies prone is worth the lost damage, but it does create a giant boom for distant ears
Wrathful Smite: many critters have low Wisdom saves, and this is a great way to handicap them
Searing Smite: deal ongoing damage to poor CON saves, like a spellcaster with defensive buffs, also hits them each round for concentration checks for added annoyance.
Branding Smite: hit an invisible enemy if no one else can make them visible
Blinding Smite: lose a 1d8 damage, but blind the target for a round
Staggering Smite: trading for less psychic damage and a control effect that could be useless for a round
Banishing Smite: no damage loss and the effect doesn't allow a saving throw which could dramatically affect the outcome of an encounter.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
hey you do know that aid does not require concentration and lasts for 8 hours right? there is no need to cast it during combat, and you can use it while also using other spells
i strongly disagree on searing smite, the target gets to make their saving throw against the effect at the start of every turn, or they could automatically end it with a single action or by using their movement to enter some nearby water, compared to ensnaring strike or wrathful smite where the victim can only attempt to escape the spell if they waste an action doing so and are not even guaranteed to escape even if they do
Similarly, branding strike deals a lot less damage than normal smite and requires you both to first correctly guess where the invisible target is hiding and then make attack with disadvantage against them until you finally hit, clearly these smite spells are not exactly created equal and that is why i asked for "worthwhile" smite spells because clearly i cannot trust wizards of the coast to make these spells as good as other spell options, like in every single way ensnaring strike is an better spell than searing smite, so what is the point to searing smite to exist other than as an low level fire spell?
sorry if i am a little impolite but it does not seem
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You are right. Thanks. Good catch.
Your definition of worthwhile will be very different than another paladin. Wrathful smite is amazing for a conquest paladin, but might be frustrating for a sticky build where you want the opponent to focus on you. If you do not think the rider effect is worth it, then stick with the raw damage of basic smite. Easy smites to say are overall useful would be:
Thunderous if you have a couple front line melee folks who could exploit it.
Wrathful for the obvious fear reasons and getting them off you butt if you get overwhelmed.
Banishing sounds awesome, but by that level your casters are probably all over that side of things.
Smite Spells are not meant to give you more damage, they are meant to give you a possible tool for battlefield control.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Aside from the arguments for utility, smite spells do increase your damage in the short term, unless you are playing a paladin that has a bonus action attack like PAM. You can divine smite on top of a Thunderous Smite, for example. Not the most efficient damage per spell slot, long term, but it increases the damage you can do in a single turn.