Just meet halfway; pole arm master wielding a one handed quarterstaff and shield.
That has no appeal stylistically imo. Using a quarterstaff 1h with a shield works per RAW, but no comparison in the real world. I think go spear, which does the same, but has more stylistic appeal. You could be more of a Spartan warrior type.
Zulu stick-fighting, which is still practiced to this day in South Africa as a sport, incorporates an attacking stick and either a defensive stick or shield. So there is real-world precedent.
And the idea of spear and shield combat being a "Spartan" thing is so...look, my guy, that was basically the pinnacle of frontline warfare for centuries. And the Spartans weren't always on top. They actually got beaten pretty regularly.
A quarterstaff can be wielded as a weapon 1h because Jeremy Crawford says it can be. It has no equivalent as a real fighting weapon in the real world, that I know of. I would bet it was how they trained for use with a spear though. Just so they didn't actually stab their training partners. :)
A quarterstaff is 6 to 8 foot long, not the 35 inches of a Zulu fighting stick. But it can be wielded 1h with a shield according to PAM, so you are good. The rules say you are ok. I just think it looks and sounds more realistic to use a spear, for the same damage.
Maybe you should read up on the subject instead of spouting ignorance.
Just meet halfway; pole arm master wielding a one handed quarterstaff and shield.
That has no appeal stylistically imo. Using a quarterstaff 1h with a shield works per RAW, but no comparison in the real world. I think go spear, which does the same, but has more stylistic appeal. You could be more of a Spartan warrior type.
Zulu stick-fighting, which is still practiced to this day in South Africa as a sport, incorporates an attacking stick and either a defensive stick or shield. So there is real-world precedent.
And the idea of spear and shield combat being a "Spartan" thing is so...look, my guy, that was basically the pinnacle of frontline warfare for centuries. And the Spartans weren't always on top. They actually got beaten pretty regularly.
A quarterstaff can be wielded as a weapon 1h because Jeremy Crawford says it can be. It has no equivalent as a real fighting weapon in the real world, that I know of. I would bet it was how they trained for use with a spear though. Just so they didn't actually stab their training partners. :)
A quarterstaff is 6 to 8 foot long, not the 35 inches of a Zulu fighting stick. But it can be wielded 1h with a shield according to PAM, so you are good. The rules say you are ok. I just think it looks and sounds more realistic to use a spear, for the same damage.
Maybe you should read up on the subject instead of spouting ignorance.
You have offered ONE bit of evidence, Zulu fighting sticks, for your argument. Zulu fighting sticks are clearly NOT quarterstaffs or anything like a staff. They are wielded as a baton for clubbing an opponent and average 88 cm (34.6 inches) in length. A quarterstaff is somewhere between 6 ft to 9 ft in length.
"George Silver, an English fencer who wrote two books (1599, 1605) including lengthy sections on staff fighting does not use the term "quarterstaff", but instead calls it a "short staff" (as opposed to the "long staff"). Joseph Swetnam, writing in 1615, distinguishes between the "quarterstaff" of 7 or 8 feet (2.1 or 2.4 m) in length and the "long staff" of 12 feet (3.7 m)."
As I noted, you are good per RAW, just no real world examples that I have seen of that fighting style.
There's no recognized standard for quarterstaves; historically or internationally in the modern era. European stick-fighting as utilized everything from 3-feet in length to 12-feet. A dragon pole can be 15 feet long.
Also, you're the one trying to impose realism on a fiction that makes extensive use of dragons, magic, and all sorts of other anachronisms.
I imagine a one handed quarterstaff just being wielded as a wooden training sword or a broom stick. You could have a neat backstory about your character feeling unready to wield a real sword yet, or taking an oath not to wield a blade until they accomplish x, or they refuse to wield a blade after some trauma, or its a strategic choice to make enemies underestimate you, etc.
Quarter staff can be wielded 1 handed because sir ian dual wielded sword & staff in the lotr movies. No need to look deeper than that. Regardless of what you think of it aesthetically, If you're playing PAM in published campaign you should probably try to get used to the idea of your character as a staff fighter, because magic staves that can be used as quarterstaves are pretty common, but magic glaives, halberds, & spears not so much.
Quarter staff can be wielded 1 handed because sir ian dual wielded sword & staff in the lotr movies. No need to look deeper than that. Regardless of what you think of it aesthetically, If you're playing PAM in published campaign you should probably try to get used to the idea of your character as a staff fighter, because magic staves that can be used as quarterstaves are pretty common, but magic glaives, halberds, & spears not so much.
I know you are joking with that one. But EVEN in LOTR, Gandalf uses it to create a spell effect, not a weapon vs the Balrog! Glamdring is his weapon! In a DnD sense, you might even argue it's more of a spell focus! :)
It's a poor DM who can't figure out how to homebrew a +1 halberd or some such.
During the Battle of Pelennor fields, Gandalf wielded his staff as a weapon against the orcs who made it atop the wall. The Maiar was dual-wielding, my guy. Some of those moves were later turned into combos for the tie-in video game. A pretty darn good one, too.
In sharknado, sharks fly out of the sky and eat people. Something in a movie is not evidence for anything being possible, reasonable or effective.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Whether any film should be held up as a barometer for what's acceptable or not is laughable on its face. It's all fiction. Let the players have their fun.
What is possible, reasonable, or effective in real life is not the target D&D game mechanics are aimed at. Staff & shield was not common in real life, but magic staffs also weren't anywhere near as common in real life as in most D&D settings.
Whether any film should be held up as a barometer for what's acceptable or not is laughable on its face. It's all fiction. Let the players have their fun.
then why did you do it?
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
My whole point was not that you CAN'T use a quarterstaff 1h with a shield in DnD, but that I think the spear and shield has better cosmetics and is more appealing. I don't think quarterstaff and shield was used much, if at all, in history, but shield and spear was used often. Meh, I just think the spear does the same damage and has a better concept. But to each his/her own.
again, D&D land isn't historical earth. staff and shield might have been super popular historically if magic staffs were among the more commonly encountered magic weapons like they are in D&D, instead of magic overall being, you know, fake.
I agree that the aesthetic image of spear & shield is much better than staff and shield, and ideally your DM will throw you a magic spear. Or maybe a halberd (which are /tragically/ underrepresented in magic item tables & published adventures given how common they were historically after they were invented). But at the end of the day, adventurers use the equipment they find. :p
Setting aside the actual historical use of stick- and stick-and-shield-fighting for us, but Sception absolutely raises a valid point. The magical and technological evolution of a D&D setting is going to be markedly different than hours. The availability of magic staves, nevermind spells like shillelagh, is going to influence the practice of martial arts at a fundamental level. Heck, just take 10 minutes to think about how fireball fundamentally changes warfare.
I think it's not a very good DM who can't re-skin some weapon in an Adventurer League module to suit the weapon needs of his adventuring party. If the martial class party member has polearm master and the module calls for a +1 maul or greatsword, is not exactly "going rogue" to re-skin it as a +1 halberd, glaive or spear. That's just flavor and tailoring it to your particular party. :)
Some DMs feel it's metagaming to tailor item drops that way, or that the rarity of certain magic weapons is meant to be a deliberate drawback to feats like Pole Arm Master or Crossbow Expert, and changing an item to fit a character's narrow build will negatively effect game balance. DMs running Adventurer's League games, and not just using Adventurer's League modules in home games, may not have the freedom to arbitrarily change items, since AL characters need to be able to document where they got particular gear based on the adventures that particular character has played through when they take that same character to another AL event to run by another AL DM.
Some DMs feel it's metagaming to tailor item drops that way, or that the rarity of certain magic weapons is meant to be a deliberate drawback to feats like Pole Arm Master or Crossbow Expert, and changing an item to fit a character's narrow build will negatively effect game balance. DMs running Adventurer's League games, and not just using Adventurer's League modules in home games, may not have the freedom to arbitrarily change items, since AL characters need to be able to document where they got particular gear based on the adventures that particular character has played through when they take that same character to another AL event to run by another AL DM.
Yeah, my characters will only every play in a single campaign with that DM. I am playing Adventurer League modules, but not a part of some larger or future group, just small groups.
My whole point was not that you CAN'T use a quarterstaff 1h with a shield in DnD, but that I think the spear and shield has better cosmetics and is more appealing. I don't think quarterstaff and shield was used much, if at all, in history, but shield and spear was used often. Meh, I just think the spear does the same damage and has a better concept. But to each his/her own.
I wish I could recall why but when I theory-crafted a shield/spear melee vs a shield/qstaff melee, I found that there was at least one mechanic that favored the qstaff. Spear is nice because it is also a thrown weapon but there was something that led me to want to use a qstaff and I can't think of why. Perhaps someone else that has built such a character knows.
[Now why did amidst all the arguing over realism did no one ask touch on my biggest gripe - pike being specifically excluded from PAM...]
My whole point was not that you CAN'T use a quarterstaff 1h with a shield in DnD, but that I think the spear and shield has better cosmetics and is more appealing. I don't think quarterstaff and shield was used much, if at all, in history, but shield and spear was used often. Meh, I just think the spear does the same damage and has a better concept. But to each his/her own.
I wish I could recall why but when I theory-crafted a shield/spear melee vs a shield/qstaff melee, I found that there was at least one mechanic that favored the qstaff. Spear is nice because it is also a thrown weapon but there was something that led me to want to use a qstaff and I can't think of why. Perhaps someone else that has built such a character knows.
[Now why did amidst all the arguing over realism did no one ask touch on my biggest gripe - pike being specifically excluded from PAM...]
Pike should get the opportunity attack from PAM, but no way you are spinning it to attack with the other end. :)
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Maybe you should read up on the subject instead of spouting ignorance.
You have offered ONE bit of evidence, Zulu fighting sticks, for your argument. Zulu fighting sticks are clearly NOT quarterstaffs or anything like a staff. They are wielded as a baton for clubbing an opponent and average 88 cm (34.6 inches) in length. A quarterstaff is somewhere between 6 ft to 9 ft in length.
"George Silver, an English fencer who wrote two books (1599, 1605) including lengthy sections on staff fighting does not use the term "quarterstaff", but instead calls it a "short staff" (as opposed to the "long staff"). Joseph Swetnam, writing in 1615, distinguishes between the "quarterstaff" of 7 or 8 feet (2.1 or 2.4 m) in length and the "long staff" of 12 feet (3.7 m)."
As I noted, you are good per RAW, just no real world examples that I have seen of that fighting style.
There's no recognized standard for quarterstaves; historically or internationally in the modern era. European stick-fighting as utilized everything from 3-feet in length to 12-feet. A dragon pole can be 15 feet long.
Also, you're the one trying to impose realism on a fiction that makes extensive use of dragons, magic, and all sorts of other anachronisms.
I imagine a one handed quarterstaff just being wielded as a wooden training sword or a broom stick. You could have a neat backstory about your character feeling unready to wield a real sword yet, or taking an oath not to wield a blade until they accomplish x, or they refuse to wield a blade after some trauma, or its a strategic choice to make enemies underestimate you, etc.
Quarter staff can be wielded 1 handed because sir ian dual wielded sword & staff in the lotr movies. No need to look deeper than that. Regardless of what you think of it aesthetically, If you're playing PAM in published campaign you should probably try to get used to the idea of your character as a staff fighter, because magic staves that can be used as quarterstaves are pretty common, but magic glaives, halberds, & spears not so much.
I know you are joking with that one. But EVEN in LOTR, Gandalf uses it to create a spell effect, not a weapon vs the Balrog! Glamdring is his weapon! In a DnD sense, you might even argue it's more of a spell focus! :)
It's a poor DM who can't figure out how to homebrew a +1 halberd or some such.
During the Battle of Pelennor fields, Gandalf wielded his staff as a weapon against the orcs who made it atop the wall. The Maiar was dual-wielding, my guy. Some of those moves were later turned into combos for the tie-in video game. A pretty darn good one, too.
In sharknado, sharks fly out of the sky and eat people. Something in a movie is not evidence for anything being possible, reasonable or effective.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Whether any film should be held up as a barometer for what's acceptable or not is laughable on its face. It's all fiction. Let the players have their fun.
What is possible, reasonable, or effective in real life is not the target D&D game mechanics are aimed at. Staff & shield was not common in real life, but magic staffs also weren't anywhere near as common in real life as in most D&D settings.
then why did you do it?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I wasn't the one who first brought up the films.
My whole point was not that you CAN'T use a quarterstaff 1h with a shield in DnD, but that I think the spear and shield has better cosmetics and is more appealing. I don't think quarterstaff and shield was used much, if at all, in history, but shield and spear was used often. Meh, I just think the spear does the same damage and has a better concept. But to each his/her own.
again, D&D land isn't historical earth. staff and shield might have been super popular historically if magic staffs were among the more commonly encountered magic weapons like they are in D&D, instead of magic overall being, you know, fake.
I agree that the aesthetic image of spear & shield is much better than staff and shield, and ideally your DM will throw you a magic spear. Or maybe a halberd (which are /tragically/ underrepresented in magic item tables & published adventures given how common they were historically after they were invented). But at the end of the day, adventurers use the equipment they find. :p
Setting aside the actual historical use of stick- and stick-and-shield-fighting for us, but Sception absolutely raises a valid point. The magical and technological evolution of a D&D setting is going to be markedly different than hours. The availability of magic staves, nevermind spells like shillelagh, is going to influence the practice of martial arts at a fundamental level. Heck, just take 10 minutes to think about how fireball fundamentally changes warfare.
I think it's not a very good DM who can't re-skin some weapon in an Adventurer League module to suit the weapon needs of his adventuring party. If the martial class party member has polearm master and the module calls for a +1 maul or greatsword, is not exactly "going rogue" to re-skin it as a +1 halberd, glaive or spear. That's just flavor and tailoring it to your particular party. :)
Some DMs feel it's metagaming to tailor item drops that way, or that the rarity of certain magic weapons is meant to be a deliberate drawback to feats like Pole Arm Master or Crossbow Expert, and changing an item to fit a character's narrow build will negatively effect game balance. DMs running Adventurer's League games, and not just using Adventurer's League modules in home games, may not have the freedom to arbitrarily change items, since AL characters need to be able to document where they got particular gear based on the adventures that particular character has played through when they take that same character to another AL event to run by another AL DM.
Yeah, my characters will only every play in a single campaign with that DM. I am playing Adventurer League modules, but not a part of some larger or future group, just small groups.
I wish I could recall why but when I theory-crafted a shield/spear melee vs a shield/qstaff melee, I found that there was at least one mechanic that favored the qstaff. Spear is nice because it is also a thrown weapon but there was something that led me to want to use a qstaff and I can't think of why. Perhaps someone else that has built such a character knows.
[Now why did amidst all the arguing over realism did no one ask touch on my biggest gripe - pike being specifically excluded from PAM...]
Pike should get the opportunity attack from PAM, but no way you are spinning it to attack with the other end. :)