So all the post PHB Ranger subclasses have received bonus spell lists, where they auto learn a 1st-5th level spell at the respective Ranger level. I’m planning to throw out this idea to my DM as we just hit Level 3 in Rime of the Frostmaiden. I know all the XGtE lists use spells that are outside the Ranger spell list but I don’t think that’s a big deal for the Hunter since it’s supposed to be even more Ranger-y. I know Hunter’s Mark will also be a popular choice for the 1st Level Spell but I want to try a full ranger without HM. So what are some ideas of good spell lists for this purpose?
So all the post PHB Ranger subclasses have received bonus spell lists, where they auto learn a 1st-5th level spell at the respective Ranger level. I’m planning to throw out this idea to my DM as we just hit Level 3 in Rime of the Frostmaiden. I know all the XGtE lists use spells that are outside the Ranger spell list but I don’t think that’s a big deal for the Hunter since it’s supposed to be even more Ranger-y. I know Hunter’s Mark will also be a popular choice for the 1st Level Spell but I want to try a full ranger without HM. So what are some ideas of good spell lists for this purpose?
Well, here's some thematic murder:
Divine Favor
Branding Smite
Crusader's Mantle
Greater Invisibility
Banishing Smite
Note: I would attach a rule modifying spells 1 to 3 in your hands, so instead of radiant damage, you deal the weapon's damage type, just like how Hunter's Mark deals the weapon's damage type, unlike Hex, which deals necrotic - it's more Rangerish and definitely more Hunterish for you to change weapons when you want to change damage types.
1. Entangle/Ensnaring Strike/Snare: Make this a trap spell of some kind. Entangle is my favorite and the best of the bunch but they're all quite thematically fitting.
2. Pass without Trace: A quintessential ranger spell that is invaluable when scouting and exploring.
3. Elemental Weapon: I like the idea of going off the Ranger list for just this one. Flame Arrows and Lightning Arrow are perfect for the Hunter Ranger "cool arrow guy" idea, but don't work for melee Hunters. Elemental Weapon helps deliver a similar fantasy while still being viable on a melee approach to the subclass.
4. Locate Creature: You're a hunter. Being good at finding people seems to make sense. Tracking is just as much, if not more a part of a hunter's identity as combat is.
5. Steel Wind Strike: I think this fits the Hunter's mechanical tendency to expand into AOE options.
Yeah, I really like this list actually. I‘d probably be changing the 3rd and 5th level spells since they’re more melee focused and my Hunter is ranger primarily. If trying to pick spells purely not on the Ranger’s Spell list, I’ve thought about like Faerie Fire at 1st level potentially and maybe like Haste at 3rd level.
If you're primarily ranged then Swift Quiver would be a perfect swap at level 5. Or perhaps Conjure Volley. Faerie Fire is a lovely spell and is fitting. I think you could make an argument for Grease too. At level 3 I think Haste is a great option that definitely fits right in. Could go with Conjure Barrage if that line of spells really does it for you. Or maybe Lightning Arrow.
I’ve also seen Silence or Blindness/Deafness suggested as a 2nd level option and I like both of those as well. Gives you a non-ranger spell and you’ll end up picking PWAT anyways.
I think Faerie Fire is an amazing spell, I’m curious if it’s worth forfeiting an action though. Especially at Level 5+, when you could be making 2 or more attacks and you’re missing out on that big damage. Like FF probably only becomes worth it in big boss fights that you know will last multiple rounds.
I think Faerie Fire is an amazing spell, I’m curious if it’s worth forfeiting an action though. Especially at Level 5+, when you could be making 2 or more attacks and you’re missing out on that big damage. Like FF probably only becomes worth it in big boss fights that you know will last multiple rounds.
To be honest, I feel like people overestimate damage and underestimate utility.
Like, maybe you're not hitting the target that round, but you're allowing a Paladin or Fighter to burst with the advantage form Faerie Fire. And, doesn't that make it worth it?
Mmm that’s probably right. And we do have a Paladin that obviously would benefit from FF. But the other two party members are a Druid and Sorcerer who aren’t going to be making attack rolls that’s often.
Yeah Envoy's on the money. Faerie Fire is generally going to be well worth the action spent casting it as your teammates enjoy the benefit with you. Now, you may be in a party with an oddly low number of attack rolls. Maybe everyone is throwing around aoe's and control and targeted saves. In that case Faerie Fire might not perform well. But in your average party where plenty of people are rolling attacks it's going to perform very well. Of course, if you go late in the round it is worth reconsidering whether casting it or not. Enemies will be out of position and allies will already have attacked for the round. The spell will pull absolutely pull its weight when used judiciously.
Edit: 😁 It looks like we posted at right around the same time DewittZD. I still think you'll get plenty of action out of faerie fire, especially if the Druid starts summoning some furry friends.
Here are lists of possibilities by level that either in a subclass list or not in any ranger list. I’m assuming you are taking the extra ranger spell option from Tasha.
L4: arcane eye, conjure minor elemental, dimension door, fire shield.
L5: mass cure wounds, s crying, animate object, hold monster.
these were taken from the Druid, cleric and wizard lists and represent ( I think) the sort of spells that a hunter might want - area control, buff/Dubuffet, maneuvering and scrying/scouting. Thunderwave is the only real area of effect damage spell but it fits so well with the loner/mobile fighter concept of the ranger I added it, remember it’sa 15’ square centered on you so you have to be at least 15’ away from all party members to use it safely.
When designing for rangers I try to picture what they would want when all alone out in the wilds first ( their “home territory”) and then how those abilities would get used with a party. So things like s crying and arcane eye become hugely useful to the Lone Ranger in spotting and avoiding things they can’t handle and in their scouting and tracking rolls.
Coming up with these lists is challenging; chiefly because every ranger archetype since Xanathar's has only included spells from the PHB that were not on the Ranger Spell List. As a result, coming up with something thematic while also drawing from other classes is a fun, if sometimes tedious, exercise. And to make matters worse, Tasha's has expanded the number of PHB spells available to the ranger; reducing our pool of selectable spells. Still, I have one for the Hunter that I'm mostly happy with. The goal here being to either bolster the ranger and their allies, debilitate their foe(s), and provide just a little bit of utility.
The only one I have any problems with is phantasmal killer - Mind you I’m not complaining about it but strikes me as being outside the realm of the hunter. Maybe Hallucinatory Terrain instead?
I am gong to ask a question without the intent to upset anyone or start a debate/argument.
Why do people think the PHB subclasses need a expanded spell list and/or why do they want one? Is it only because other, newer, subclasses have them? Is there a definable gap that is needed to be filled in the PHB subclasses via a spell list?
P.S. I believe the drake subclass doesn't have an expanded spell list either.
You do get Thaumaturgy as a bonus spell, but yes Drake warden doesn't get them. Hunter is generally a better martial character than the others and Beast Master has a whole beast, so I understand why it doesn't and that Tasha's did not add them.
Personally I find that the bonus spells offset the absolutely terrible number of spells known and the spells known mechanic. In particular the fact that Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster as 1/3 casters have more spells known than a Ranger is horrible/terrible/worth flipping a table over. If you just made Ranger spells prepared I don't think it would matter as much.
The other comparison to look at is the Paladins which all get bonus spells (twice as many in fact) and Artificer. Without getting into a longer discussion its just not right and makes playing a Ranger feel not as rewarding as those other classes. So for me bonus spells for all Rangers, and 2 per level feels better, but we can start at 1 per spell level. Personally I will never play a Hunter or a Beast Master because of the lack of bonus spells.
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So all the post PHB Ranger subclasses have received bonus spell lists, where they auto learn a 1st-5th level spell at the respective Ranger level. I’m planning to throw out this idea to my DM as we just hit Level 3 in Rime of the Frostmaiden. I know all the XGtE lists use spells that are outside the Ranger spell list but I don’t think that’s a big deal for the Hunter since it’s supposed to be even more Ranger-y. I know Hunter’s Mark will also be a popular choice for the 1st Level Spell but I want to try a full ranger without HM. So what are some ideas of good spell lists for this purpose?
Well, here's some thematic murder:
Note: I would attach a rule modifying spells 1 to 3 in your hands, so instead of radiant damage, you deal the weapon's damage type, just like how Hunter's Mark deals the weapon's damage type, unlike Hex, which deals necrotic - it's more Rangerish and definitely more Hunterish for you to change weapons when you want to change damage types.
I'm thinking something like this:
1. Entangle/Ensnaring Strike/Snare: Make this a trap spell of some kind. Entangle is my favorite and the best of the bunch but they're all quite thematically fitting.
2. Pass without Trace: A quintessential ranger spell that is invaluable when scouting and exploring.
3. Elemental Weapon: I like the idea of going off the Ranger list for just this one. Flame Arrows and Lightning Arrow are perfect for the Hunter Ranger "cool arrow guy" idea, but don't work for melee Hunters. Elemental Weapon helps deliver a similar fantasy while still being viable on a melee approach to the subclass.
4. Locate Creature: You're a hunter. Being good at finding people seems to make sense. Tracking is just as much, if not more a part of a hunter's identity as combat is.
5. Steel Wind Strike: I think this fits the Hunter's mechanical tendency to expand into AOE options.
Yeah, I really like this list actually. I‘d probably be changing the 3rd and 5th level spells since they’re more melee focused and my Hunter is ranger primarily. If trying to pick spells purely not on the Ranger’s Spell list, I’ve thought about like Faerie Fire at 1st level potentially and maybe like Haste at 3rd level.
Haste at 3rd is an excellent choice for a Hunter Ranger. At 5th, you can take Swift Quiver if Steel Wind Strike isn't to your fancy.
If you're primarily ranged then Swift Quiver would be a perfect swap at level 5. Or perhaps Conjure Volley. Faerie Fire is a lovely spell and is fitting. I think you could make an argument for Grease too. At level 3 I think Haste is a great option that definitely fits right in. Could go with Conjure Barrage if that line of spells really does it for you. Or maybe Lightning Arrow.
I’ve also seen Silence or Blindness/Deafness suggested as a 2nd level option and I like both of those as well. Gives you a non-ranger spell and you’ll end up picking PWAT anyways.
I think Faerie Fire is an amazing spell, I’m curious if it’s worth forfeiting an action though. Especially at Level 5+, when you could be making 2 or more attacks and you’re missing out on that big damage. Like FF probably only becomes worth it in big boss fights that you know will last multiple rounds.
To be honest, I feel like people overestimate damage and underestimate utility.
Like, maybe you're not hitting the target that round, but you're allowing a Paladin or Fighter to burst with the advantage form Faerie Fire. And, doesn't that make it worth it?
Mmm that’s probably right. And we do have a Paladin that obviously would benefit from FF. But the other two party members are a Druid and Sorcerer who aren’t going to be making attack rolls that’s often.
Yeah Envoy's on the money. Faerie Fire is generally going to be well worth the action spent casting it as your teammates enjoy the benefit with you. Now, you may be in a party with an oddly low number of attack rolls. Maybe everyone is throwing around aoe's and control and targeted saves. In that case Faerie Fire might not perform well. But in your average party where plenty of people are rolling attacks it's going to perform very well. Of course, if you go late in the round it is worth reconsidering whether casting it or not. Enemies will be out of position and allies will already have attacked for the round. The spell will pull absolutely pull its weight when used judiciously.
Edit: 😁 It looks like we posted at right around the same time DewittZD. I still think you'll get plenty of action out of faerie fire, especially if the Druid starts summoning some furry friends.
Here are lists of possibilities by level that either in a subclass list or not in any ranger list. I’m assuming you are taking the extra ranger spell option from Tasha.
L1: Faerie , Fire, thunder wave, Alarm, Comprehended Languages, Expiditious Retreat
L2: flame blade, heat metal, moonbeam, spiritual weapon, cloud of daggers, darkness, spider limb, shatter, web.
L3: haste, dispel magic, clairvoyance, remove curse, tongues, blink, stinking cloud.
L4: arcane eye, conjure minor elemental, dimension door, fire shield.
L5: mass cure wounds, s crying, animate object, hold monster.
these were taken from the Druid, cleric and wizard lists and represent ( I think) the sort of spells that a hunter might want - area control, buff/Dubuffet, maneuvering and scrying/scouting.
Thunderwave is the only real area of effect damage spell but it fits so well with the loner/mobile fighter concept of the ranger I added it, remember it’sa 15’ square centered on you so you have to be at least 15’ away from all party members to use it safely.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
When designing for rangers I try to picture what they would want when all alone out in the wilds first ( their “home territory”) and then how those abilities would get used with a party. So things like s crying and arcane eye become hugely useful to the Lone Ranger in spotting and avoiding things they can’t handle and in their scouting and tracking rolls.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Coming up with these lists is challenging; chiefly because every ranger archetype since Xanathar's has only included spells from the PHB that were not on the Ranger Spell List. As a result, coming up with something thematic while also drawing from other classes is a fun, if sometimes tedious, exercise. And to make matters worse, Tasha's has expanded the number of PHB spells available to the ranger; reducing our pool of selectable spells. Still, I have one for the Hunter that I'm mostly happy with. The goal here being to either bolster the ranger and their allies, debilitate their foe(s), and provide just a little bit of utility.
The only one I have any problems with is phantasmal killer - Mind you I’m not complaining about it but strikes me as being outside the realm of the hunter. Maybe Hallucinatory Terrain instead?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I am gong to ask a question without the intent to upset anyone or start a debate/argument.
Why do people think the PHB subclasses need a expanded spell list and/or why do they want one? Is it only because other, newer, subclasses have them? Is there a definable gap that is needed to be filled in the PHB subclasses via a spell list?
P.S. I believe the drake subclass doesn't have an expanded spell list either.
You do get Thaumaturgy as a bonus spell, but yes Drake warden doesn't get them. Hunter is generally a better martial character than the others and Beast Master has a whole beast, so I understand why it doesn't and that Tasha's did not add them.
Personally I find that the bonus spells offset the absolutely terrible number of spells known and the spells known mechanic. In particular the fact that Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster as 1/3 casters have more spells known than a Ranger is horrible/terrible/worth flipping a table over. If you just made Ranger spells prepared I don't think it would matter as much.
The other comparison to look at is the Paladins which all get bonus spells (twice as many in fact) and Artificer. Without getting into a longer discussion its just not right and makes playing a Ranger feel not as rewarding as those other classes. So for me bonus spells for all Rangers, and 2 per level feels better, but we can start at 1 per spell level. Personally I will never play a Hunter or a Beast Master because of the lack of bonus spells.