Oh good catch, and the drake feature does say that it shares your initiative but takes its turn immediately after yours. So that probably would rule out extra attack.
Man as excited as I was about this subclass, the more I really read it the more meh I feel. Seems like the only way to play it without totally gimping yourself is like a Beastmaster companion, rather than riding it into battle. Still cool I guess, but not really the dragon rider I was hoping for.
If you want a rideable flying companion, a Small PHB Beastmaster can ride a vulture or pteranodon. If you don't need it to fly, not only are a wide variety of other options available, but you can ride the TCOE Primals that climb and swim.
Another option, if you're having issues but your mount is strong and fast enough to be worth it, and if your DM has ruled that creatures without hands, e.g. squid, can legally grapple, then you can have your companion grapple you and drag you - this will be at half speed, but lets you solve problems like the Drakewarden has where the Drake miraculously can carry everyone except the Ranger while flying.
I don't have a solution to offer in terms of manipulating initiative, though. Other than again suggesting you use Beast Master to solve your woes, of course.
Anyone gonna talk about the level 11 class ability gated at once per long rest is a weaker version of fireball, a 3rd level spell?
I'm not sure why the class came out like this, they back loaded the class so much.
fly a dragon? nope level 15 where very few will reach it, and almost removes the idea of a multi class. Theres multiple ways to get flight far sooner, why would this be gated?
Breath attack? weaker than a third level spell, once per day.
all the cool things you wanted to do are beyond level 11...
You can expend a 3rd-level spell slot to reuse the breath weapon, it can be fired from either you or your drake thus allowing for tactical positioning advantages the wizard would kill for, 8d6 is literally the same as Fireball so I don't get where you're saying it's weaker, and it scales to 10d6 at 15th. Not the best thing in the world, but not nearly as bad as you're suggesting.
They back loaded it precisely to encourage you to stay in the class for all the 15 levels. That's literally the point of it. I don't get what argument this is supposed to be.
You can expend a 3rd-level spell slot to reuse the breath weapon, it can be fired from either you or your drake thus allowing for tactical positioning advantages the wizard would kill for, 8d6 is literally the same as Fireball so I don't get where you're saying it's weaker, and it scales to 10d6 at 15th. Not the best thing in the world, but not nearly as bad as you're suggesting.
They back loaded it precisely to encourage you to stay in the class for all the 15 levels. That's literally the point of it. I don't get what argument this is supposed to be.
30 foot cone verse 40 foot diameter circle is far less area of effect. It's quite unremarkable at 11th level.
They back loaded it precisely to encourage you to stay in the class for all the 15 levels. That's literally the point of it. I don't get what argument this is supposed to be.
The problem is, the vast majority of campaigns don't make it above level 10, let alone level 15. And it especially hurts when Wizards back loads classes like this without actually supporting high-level play. Only 1 official module goes past level 15, a few end at 15, and the rest end lower than that. If they're going to lock class-defining features like this behind level 15, they should provide some actual tier 4 support for DM's.
Not to mention, several other classes get access to flight as early as level 5. And with how awkwardly written mounted combat rules are, like was previously discussed, when you do finally hit 15 it's still not great. Your mount moves after you, and arguably can't use its actions or reactions which means no infused strikes or bite attack (which also gets empowered at 15). So yay you finally hit level 15, now you can fly on your mount! You just have to totally gimp yourself. Very underwhelming.
And even then you could just do beastmaster kobold ranger and take a Pteradon pet. And they can start riding that in the sky at lvl 3 instead of 7
15. The gating is level 15. The Drakewarden's dragon can't use its flying speed while mounted by its Ranger, no matter the size category of either, until level 15.
It sounds like a lot of folks want the drakewarden to be a beast master 2.5, but it doesn't at all seem that that was the intent. It is a buddy subclass, but with a very specific set of things that set it apart from other buddy subclasses, namely elemental damage and area of effect damage. Between summoning the drake and utilizing the AoE, I'd say they got plenty to do with their spell slots.
There is now a lot of toes to avoid stepping on from a game design standpoint when it comes to buddy subclasses (and even spells). The beast masters have a few niches that still set them apart from the others in top tier action economy, spell buff support, and enhanced senses.
It sounds like a lot of folks want the drakewarden to be a beast master 2.5, but it doesn't at all seem that that was the intent. It is a buddy subclass, but with a very specific set of things that set it apart from other buddy subclasses, namely elemental damage and area of effect damage. Between summoning the drake and utilizing the AoE, I'd say they got plenty to do with their spell slots.
There is now a lot of toes to avoid stepping on from a game design standpoint when it comes to buddy subclasses (and even spells). The beast masters have a few niches that still set them apart from the others in top tier action economy, spell buff support, and enhanced senses.
I can only speak for myself but I would give up a fair amount to get flying earlier.....7th level seems about right for flight for this subclass even if it meant that you had to do less damage or it was a higher cost to re-summon the Drake.
For me the idea of having a dragon companion is very closely tied to having it be a mount. Maybe I've seen too many "How to Train Your Dragon" movies, read Eragon, watched the BG III trailer too many times but to me it goes hand in hand.
why bother with the dragon AOE when you can literally cast fly, and cast fireball way sooner as a wizard?
1) Because I chose to be a Ranger, not a Wizard
2) It doesn't always have to be fire, I can choose the damage type for my drake depending on the situation, if I know I'm going to be facing creatures that resist one or more damage types. For example, if I know I'm going to be fighting demons I can go with Acid or Poison instead of the Cold/Fire/Lightning that many demons resist.
why bother with the dragon AOE when you can literally cast fly, and cast fireball way sooner as a wizard?
1) Because I chose to be a Ranger, not a Wizard
2) It doesn't always have to be fire, I can choose the damage type for my drake depending on the situation, if I know I'm going to be facing creatures that resist one or more damage types. For example, if I know I'm going to be fighting demons I can go with Acid or Poison instead of the Cold/Fire/Lightning that many demons resist.
why bother with the dragon AOE when you can literally cast fly, and cast fireball way sooner as a wizard?
1) Because I chose to be a Ranger, not a Wizard
2) It doesn't always have to be fire, I can choose the damage type for my drake depending on the situation, if I know I'm going to be facing creatures that resist one or more damage types. For example, if I know I'm going to be fighting demons I can go with Acid or Poison instead of the Cold/Fire/Lightning that many demons resist.
Meta gamer! ☝️
Don't be silly. It's perfectly reasonable for characters to research different types of monsters, especially if the primary quest of a campaign is focused around a given type(which more than one of the official campaigns have done). If the Big Bad of your campaign is a major demon or a cult that summons demons, etc. then it would make sense that you would try to learn the best ways to fight them. Heck, one of the main aspects of the original Favored Enemy feature of Rangers is to give them advantage on knowledge checks to recall information about the creature type you choose.
why bother with the dragon AOE when you can literally cast fly, and cast fireball way sooner as a wizard?
1) Because I chose to be a Ranger, not a Wizard
2) It doesn't always have to be fire, I can choose the damage type for my drake depending on the situation, if I know I'm going to be facing creatures that resist one or more damage types. For example, if I know I'm going to be fighting demons I can go with Acid or Poison instead of the Cold/Fire/Lightning that many demons resist.
Meta gamer! ☝️
Don't be silly. It's perfectly reasonable for characters to research different types of monsters, especially if the primary quest of a campaign is focused around a given type(which more than one of the official campaigns have done). If the Big Bad of your campaign is a major demon or a cult that summons demons, etc. then it would make sense that you would try to learn the best ways to fight them. Heck, one of the main aspects of the original Favored Enemy feature of Rangers is to give them advantage on knowledge checks to recall information about the creature type you choose.
It is quite literally the point.
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Oh good catch, and the drake feature does say that it shares your initiative but takes its turn immediately after yours. So that probably would rule out extra attack.
Man as excited as I was about this subclass, the more I really read it the more meh I feel. Seems like the only way to play it without totally gimping yourself is like a Beastmaster companion, rather than riding it into battle. Still cool I guess, but not really the dragon rider I was hoping for.
If you want a rideable flying companion, a Small PHB Beastmaster can ride a vulture or pteranodon. If you don't need it to fly, not only are a wide variety of other options available, but you can ride the TCOE Primals that climb and swim.
Another option, if you're having issues but your mount is strong and fast enough to be worth it, and if your DM has ruled that creatures without hands, e.g. squid, can legally grapple, then you can have your companion grapple you and drag you - this will be at half speed, but lets you solve problems like the Drakewarden has where the Drake miraculously can carry everyone except the Ranger while flying.
I don't have a solution to offer in terms of manipulating initiative, though. Other than again suggesting you use Beast Master to solve your woes, of course.
Anyone gonna talk about the level 11 class ability gated at once per long rest is a weaker version of fireball, a 3rd level spell?
I'm not sure why the class came out like this, they back loaded the class so much.
all the cool things you wanted to do are beyond level 11...
They nerfd the monk too so there is that as well
You can expend a 3rd-level spell slot to reuse the breath weapon, it can be fired from either you or your drake thus allowing for tactical positioning advantages the wizard would kill for, 8d6 is literally the same as Fireball so I don't get where you're saying it's weaker, and it scales to 10d6 at 15th. Not the best thing in the world, but not nearly as bad as you're suggesting.
They back loaded it precisely to encourage you to stay in the class for all the 15 levels. That's literally the point of it. I don't get what argument this is supposed to be.
30 foot cone verse 40 foot diameter circle is far less area of effect. It's quite unremarkable at 11th level.
The problem is, the vast majority of campaigns don't make it above level 10, let alone level 15. And it especially hurts when Wizards back loads classes like this without actually supporting high-level play. Only 1 official module goes past level 15, a few end at 15, and the rest end lower than that. If they're going to lock class-defining features like this behind level 15, they should provide some actual tier 4 support for DM's.
Not to mention, several other classes get access to flight as early as level 5. And with how awkwardly written mounted combat rules are, like was previously discussed, when you do finally hit 15 it's still not great. Your mount moves after you, and arguably can't use its actions or reactions which means no infused strikes or bite attack (which also gets empowered at 15). So yay you finally hit level 15, now you can fly on your mount! You just have to totally gimp yourself. Very underwhelming.
And even then you could just do beastmaster kobold ranger and take a Pteradon pet. And they can start riding that in the sky at lvl 3 instead of 7
15. The gating is level 15. The Drakewarden's dragon can't use its flying speed while mounted by its Ranger, no matter the size category of either, until level 15.
Seems like a needless nerf I agree...Paladins get a flying mount faster than the ranger does lol.
They can pick up "Find Greater Steed" at 13th level.
It sounds like a lot of folks want the drakewarden to be a beast master 2.5, but it doesn't at all seem that that was the intent. It is a buddy subclass, but with a very specific set of things that set it apart from other buddy subclasses, namely elemental damage and area of effect damage. Between summoning the drake and utilizing the AoE, I'd say they got plenty to do with their spell slots.
There is now a lot of toes to avoid stepping on from a game design standpoint when it comes to buddy subclasses (and even spells). The beast masters have a few niches that still set them apart from the others in top tier action economy, spell buff support, and enhanced senses.
I can only speak for myself but I would give up a fair amount to get flying earlier.....7th level seems about right for flight for this subclass even if it meant that you had to do less damage or it was a higher cost to re-summon the Drake.
For me the idea of having a dragon companion is very closely tied to having it be a mount. Maybe I've seen too many "How to Train Your Dragon" movies, read Eragon, watched the BG III trailer too many times but to me it goes hand in hand.
why bother with the dragon AOE when you can literally cast fly, and cast fireball way sooner as a wizard?
Yeah. But then you're a wizard. LOL!
Harry? I mean Hagrid?
Nicely done.
1) Because I chose to be a Ranger, not a Wizard
2) It doesn't always have to be fire, I can choose the damage type for my drake depending on the situation, if I know I'm going to be facing creatures that resist one or more damage types. For example, if I know I'm going to be fighting demons I can go with Acid or Poison instead of the Cold/Fire/Lightning that many demons resist.
Meta gamer! ☝️
Don't be silly. It's perfectly reasonable for characters to research different types of monsters, especially if the primary quest of a campaign is focused around a given type(which more than one of the official campaigns have done). If the Big Bad of your campaign is a major demon or a cult that summons demons, etc. then it would make sense that you would try to learn the best ways to fight them. Heck, one of the main aspects of the original Favored Enemy feature of Rangers is to give them advantage on knowledge checks to recall information about the creature type you choose.
It is quite literally the point.