Yes. I agree. The feat needed something else. TWF is 100% fine in a featless world. But it’s not in line with feats for the other fighting styles, let alone the couple of combos of martial feats available.
The only way dual wielding helps is if you go to double longswords which adds a whopping 1 point of damage (15) which you could get out of the Dex boost by going to scimitar +short sword and still get the +4 to hit.
As Frank says - yes if you want to stay Dex based then dual wielding rapiers will get you the 15 but my point (and others) was that you could do as well or better without the dual wielding feat. That same 15 average damage could just as easily come from TWF and an 18 Dex while wielding a scimitar and shortsword ( or 2 scimitars or 2 short swords) and along with that you get a +1 to hit and possibly a +1 to AC depending on the armor your wearing. That effectively renders dual wielding a (near) useless feat that needs a massive rewrite to make it worth taking.
When you say melee, do you mean a Gish who goes into melee range and is in contact and uses a mix of spells and weapons but does it from the front, or do you mean someone who is always swinging a weapon and rarely uses spells?
Beguiling twist is awesome and along with Fey reinforcments it is the centerpeice of the class. However if you are going to be melee focused that means not spamming Fey reinforcments and not regularly casting spells like Charm person or cause fear (from shadow touched) in combat. If you are going to play that way, to really get the mileeage out of Fey Wanderer you either need another PC caster that is going to build his character to play into your build by getting spells that cause either frightened or charmed or you will won't get much out of the most powerful features in the subclass.
If you are going with a strict weapon attacking Fey Wanderer I think you want a a Leonin. A Leonin can roar as a bonus action to frighten once a short rest.
Dreadful strikes is only once a turn, so if you are not multiclassing, the best melee build is going to be strength-based using heavy weapons for maximum damage. There are a lot of ways to do this. Crusher feat, GWM, GWM+PAM..... For fighting style I would take defense or blind fighting.
If you just want someone who is in melee but not necessarily doing melee attacks all the time there are more options. If this is the case you want Drudic Warrior fighting style. Pick up shilalagh. You will want to max wisdom and run a 14 dexterity and medium armor. Get cause fear through shadowtouched and you can play a dragonborn with the dragonfear feat (using Tasha's rules where you can use a breath weapon as an attack instead of an action). You will be pretty awesome with regular reactions to use beguiling twist.
As Frank says - yes if you want to stay Dex based then dual wielding rapiers will get you the 15 but my point (and others) was that you could do as well or better without the dual wielding feat. That same 15 average damage could just as easily come from TWF and an 18 Dex while wielding a scimitar and shortsword ( or 2 scimitars or 2 short swords) and along with that you get a +1 to hit and possibly a +1 to AC depending on the armor your wearing. That effectively renders dual wielding a (near) useless feat that needs a massive rewrite to make it worth taking.
We were trying to talk about the problem with dual wielding which turns out not to be worth taking. There are a couple of problems it’s some of the ideas you presented. Rangers at low level can be weapon focused but at higher levels they transition to a mix of weapon and spell use so the basic answer to your first questions is yes. Fighters can go the GWM+PAM/crusher path because they have 4 ASI s in the first 12 levels so they can use 2 for ASIs and 2 for feats. Rangers only have 3 so they are limited to 1 feat rendering those builds mostly off limit. Yes you can go VH to get 4 but then your comparing 4 to 5 and still behind. Druidic warrior is a great way to go but picking a race by their 1/LR ability is pushing things. Shillelagh is very good at low to med. level it doesn’t scale while primal savagery does making it better long term. Going Dex+wis or straight wis makes the ranger much less MAD and thereby making better use of the ASIs you do get.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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Ah. I see now. Thank you!
Yes. I agree. The feat needed something else. TWF is 100% fine in a featless world. But it’s not in line with feats for the other fighting styles, let alone the couple of combos of martial feats available.
The only way dual wielding helps is if you go to double longswords which adds a whopping 1 point of damage (15) which you could get out of the Dex boost by going to scimitar +short sword and still get the +4 to hit.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Wouldn't dual wielding rapiers have the same effect and since your a ranger wouldn't you still want dexterity for your attacks :/
If Im going dex based TWF I would use Rapiers
Yes!
As Frank says - yes if you want to stay Dex based then dual wielding rapiers will get you the 15 but my point (and others) was that you could do as well or better without the dual wielding feat. That same 15 average damage could just as easily come from TWF and an 18 Dex while wielding a scimitar and shortsword ( or 2 scimitars or 2 short swords) and along with that you get a +1 to hit and possibly a +1 to AC depending on the armor your wearing. That effectively renders dual wielding a (near) useless feat that needs a massive rewrite to make it worth taking.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
When you say melee, do you mean a Gish who goes into melee range and is in contact and uses a mix of spells and weapons but does it from the front, or do you mean someone who is always swinging a weapon and rarely uses spells?
Beguiling twist is awesome and along with Fey reinforcments it is the centerpeice of the class. However if you are going to be melee focused that means not spamming Fey reinforcments and not regularly casting spells like Charm person or cause fear (from shadow touched) in combat. If you are going to play that way, to really get the mileeage out of Fey Wanderer you either need another PC caster that is going to build his character to play into your build by getting spells that cause either frightened or charmed or you will won't get much out of the most powerful features in the subclass.
If you are going with a strict weapon attacking Fey Wanderer I think you want a a Leonin. A Leonin can roar as a bonus action to frighten once a short rest.
Dreadful strikes is only once a turn, so if you are not multiclassing, the best melee build is going to be strength-based using heavy weapons for maximum damage. There are a lot of ways to do this. Crusher feat, GWM, GWM+PAM..... For fighting style I would take defense or blind fighting.
If you just want someone who is in melee but not necessarily doing melee attacks all the time there are more options. If this is the case you want Drudic Warrior fighting style. Pick up shilalagh. You will want to max wisdom and run a 14 dexterity and medium armor. Get cause fear through shadowtouched and you can play a dragonborn with the dragonfear feat (using Tasha's rules where you can use a breath weapon as an attack instead of an action). You will be pretty awesome with regular reactions to use beguiling twist.
interesting I did not know that
interesting I did not know that
Sorry I still learning how to use this
We were trying to talk about the problem with dual wielding which turns out not to be worth taking. There are a couple of problems it’s some of the ideas you presented. Rangers at low level can be weapon focused but at higher levels they transition to a mix of weapon and spell use so the basic answer to your first questions is yes. Fighters can go the GWM+PAM/crusher path because they have 4 ASI s in the first 12 levels so they can use 2 for ASIs and 2 for feats. Rangers only have 3 so they are limited to 1 feat rendering those builds mostly off limit. Yes you can go VH to get 4 but then your comparing 4 to 5 and still behind. Druidic warrior is a great way to go but picking a race by their 1/LR ability is pushing things. Shillelagh is very good at low to med. level it doesn’t scale while primal savagery does making it better long term. Going Dex+wis or straight wis makes the ranger much less MAD and thereby making better use of the ASIs you do get.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.