Has anyone made a concept for a Ranger that’s able to weave their spells to the arrows to make an attack.
-I would say that where the arrow touches will activate the spell. You would use the damage die, but use the spell mod for the attack if you applied a spell. Base damage for normal attack.
-In order to gain new spells you have to be in contact with another spell caster thats willing to teach you the spell.
It sounds like you want homebrew instead of actual builds. however, you could multiclass artificer or fighter: arcane archer But then you probably would just want to play one of those classes instead. If you want specific pre-existing spells and abilities let me know.
I have taken ritual caster on a ranger to make one a little more arcane. You can do most of a "wizards" job that way and planning around it.
Has anyone made a concept for a Ranger that’s able to weave their spells to the arrows to make an attack.
-I would say that where the arrow touches will activate the spell. You would use the damage die, but use the spell mod for the attack if you applied a spell. Base damage for normal attack.
-In order to gain new spells you have to be in contact with another spell caster thats willing to teach you the spell.
Yes, the 5E Arcane Archer Fighter subclass was a (failed) attempt to bring back a 3.5E prestige class based on this concept. But I don't have a homebrew ready to go for you or anything.
If you're really in love with this idea, I would start with something like this as a chassis:
Spellbow: You can use any ranged weapon with which you are proficient that needs ammunition (typically a sling, bow, crossbow, or blowgun, but your DM may allow firearms) as a Druidic Focus for your spellcasting, and you add a Focus requirement to all of your Ranger spells (just like an Artificer). When you cast a spell, you can fire the spell from your weapon, provided the range of the spell is not Self: change the spell's range to the long range of the weapon. Doing so has the spell consume 1 piece of ammunition for the weapon.
Yes, the 5E Arcane Archer Fighter subclass was a (failed) attempt to bring back a 3.5E prestige class based on this concept.
Why would you say Arcane Archer failed? I never played the 3.5 prestige class but Arcane Archer leans into the theme of an arcane bowman quite well and with the extra feat you get at 6th level you can make it even better.
The main concern with arcane archer is the limited use of the arcane shot (2 per short rest feels bad for some) And a couple of options that feel like " build traps" the dislike is understandable but I think there is some good potential there especially for multiclass builds. some options should be avoided but not as many as haters assume.
People complain about all kinds of stuff. But I think the subclass, if you’re going to play a fighter at all, is good. Three levels of arcane archer for a otherwise full ranger archer is very fun and potent. It blends well with ranger’s otherwise full rest resources.
The main concern with arcane archer is the limited use of the arcane shot (2 per short rest feels bad for some) And a couple of options that feel like " build traps" the dislike is understandable but I think there is some good potential there especially for multiclass builds. some options should be avoided but not as many as haters assume.
If you are metagaming it is not the most powerful fighter, but the grasping arrow is pretty powerful, more powerful than any of the battlemaster maneuvers and lasts a lot longer. I think that more than makes up for fewer uses. An AA build with sharpshooter is going to outrun a lot of martials and if you pair it with the telekenetic feat it will be tough for most martials to keep up in terms of damage. Certainly you can build more powerful builds but I don't think most of the martials I have seen played will keep up with that.
The 2 times a short rest is a limit certainly, but I think it is a burst feature vice a sustained one.
There are better and worse options for both fighter subclasses, battle master and arcane archer. I agree that the better options for arcane archer are way better than the better options for battle master with a bow.
Any AA build is going to be “better” at the thing it’s built for, so that comparison seems like a waste of all of our energy.
No matter what, arcane archer, battle master, monks, warlocks, the “sub game” is management of short rest resources. If short rests a few and far between, these types loose ground. When short rests are plentiful, these types pull past the rest.
The way I see Arcane Archer is that it mostly feels like they tried to copy what the Warlock has but worse. Let me explain.
Both get two short rest "spells" for the majority of the campaign and outside of that they "just" have their regular up to four attacks. The difference is that the Arcane Archer has to put points into Intelligence AND Dexterity while the Warlock can focus completely on Charisma for both. Now of course the Warlock will put some points into Dexterity as well since it's such a valuable ability score, but it's not their main focus. Depending on the group Charisma is much more useful than Intelligence outside of combat as well, but let's ignore that since it's not objectively better.
Not sure I agree completely on needing to invest in intelligence.
Certainly a decent intelligence is required, but grasping arrow gets no save, so it is a completely viable option with a mediocre intellligence like a 12 and investing nothing therefter.
That said I would agree that a high intelligence of 14+ works best on this build, but really after 6th level your dexterity can be maxed. So when I play AA I gravitate towards a high-intelligence build because it fits thematically and with its ribbon abilities but the class is not really very MAD. Certainly a base Paladin or Ranger has it worse in that regard and I would say Rune Knight and Eldritch Knight are both more MAD than AA.
Yes to this. And, a fighter is still a fighter. Doing fighter things. Take a single class fighter build and tell me it’s “AA”. Comparing ANY single class build versus most multiclass builds and you’ll have an imbalance in favor of the multiclass. Multiclassing, feats, and magic items all change things considerably. Let’s talk about a straight fighter back a straight warlock and see what we get then.
Let’s talk about a straight fighter back a straight warlock and see what we get then.
Or we could instead talk about adding more magic to Rangers since thats what the Original post was about.
Rangers are one class that does seem to multiclass well. I consider that a feature not a flaw. especially PHB beastmasters usually only want 15 levels max (beastmasters rarely need feral senses) and those extra spells(from multiclassing) really help the spell sharing feature.
I like playing high int rangers and it mixes well with artificer. Having glow arrows, smell arrows, and being really good at crafting special arrows is fun to me. There's the walloping arrows and arrows of slaying.
Let’s talk about a straight fighter back a straight warlock and see what we get then.
Or we could instead talk about adding more magic to Rangers since thats what the Original post was about.
Rangers are one class that does seem to multiclass well. I consider that a feature not a flaw. especially PHB beastmasters usually only want 15 levels max (beastmasters rarely need feral senses) and those extra spells(from multiclassing) really help the spell sharing feature.
I like playing high int rangers and it mixes well with artificer. Having glow arrows, smell arrows, and being really good at crafting special arrows is fun to me. There's the walloping arrows and arrows of slaying.
LOL!! Fair enough. Thank you for steering the conversation back.
I do have to agree here. Yes, dexterity first then wisdom second is the railroad way of building a ranger, but they pair well with many full casters. Intelligence is fine if you have given a little love to your ranger's intelligence score. Wisdom has such great companions in druid and cleric, and thats my personal favorite. Any of the fighters with magic would work as you only need the dexterity to do the multiclass. Fighters now have a good handful of magic infused subclasses, all of which would greatly change and likely enhance a ranger archer, with only really 3 levels needed. There are many rangers that have a level or two in fighter just because (you know why), so adding one more level in fighter (especially after your 5th level in ranger for extra attack) is a great idea.
I mean Grasping arrow doesn't require a saving throw to apply the effect but if you want it to last more than a round you kinda want a decent save DC and other arrows you might want to take do require a saving throw after all.
It is not a save, it is a check, it requires an action to do, it is not an automatic. Even with an 8 intelligence you are going to do auto poison damage, auto damage every time they are moved between when you hit and their turn and then they will lose their action to try to break it.
That is pretty powerful.
Rangers do have their issues and I'd say they're certainly more MAD due to having less ASIs than a Fighter but ironically they can shoot more magic arrows than an Arcane Archer unless you have more than three combat encounters (at level ~6) and plenty opportunities for short rests since even with their limited spell slots they have enough to cover multiple fights if they only use two in each and their spell selection does include "magic arrows" in form of ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, zephyr strike and such as well.
All of those are much weaker than grasping arrow and generally not able to be used more often. They all also require a bonus action or action to cast.
Ensnaring strike gets a save when it hits, large enemies get an advantage to that save and even if the save is failed it is going to take 3 rounds to exceed the extra damage done on grasping arrow the first round, not counting the extra movement damage which you can pile up turn after turn. You also have to maintain concentration on it. For it to be generally better than grasping arrow, you would need to upcast at 3rd level (requiring a 9th level Ranger) and because of the save you would need to cast it with a 20 wisdom s well.
Hail of Thorns is going to average 5.5 damage with a failed save, 2 damage with a successful one and it is going to be over a 5 foot area of affect. Its most direct Arcane Archer competitor is bursting Arrow 4 times the area of hail of thorns and does average 7 damage with no save.
Zephyr Strike is difficult to compare because it is more about mobility than damage. In terms of damage, against a low or medium AC enemy virtually any of the Arcane Archers shots are going to do more damage, most without a save. Against a high AC Zephyr strike could come out on top due to the advantage on the attack, however that is not really appropriate because you don't use the Arcane shots until after you hit. So you are comparing a resource with a chance of payoff (and not a good one if AC is very high) to a resource that always works when you spend it, and if you do hit the Arcane Shots will do substantially more damage.
Paladins can be MAD but lets be honest most of the time their spell slots get abused as smite slots which don't really require points in CHA anyway. ^^
They don't require Charisma for their spells but they do for their other abilities, notably their CD and aura of protection.
To be fair if you go full monoclass Fighter you'd have enough ASIs to cover both DEX and INT easily so it's certainly not the worst thing to do but I think I'd prefer going full Ranger then instead and rely on their spells since even though it's more MAD the magic arrows would be part of the base class so you'd be free to expand greatly on it by picking whatever subclass suits you best instead of having the magic arrow being the whole subclass and that's it. If I'd go Arcane Archer I'd still prefer the multiclass I mentioned before so I could get my hands on fancy infusions, some spells and a nice companion. You need to go quite deep so it would either come online rather late or you're delaying your extra attack for a long time (I'd probably go with 1st level Fighter and then 3 level Artificer so for the majority of the time it'd be more of a ranged Artificer than a Arcane Archer) but nothing is ever perfect. Probably a character I wouldn't try to play when starting with lower levels.
That is certainly viable.
To be honest I like multiclasses with almost any build. My favorite with Arcane Archer is start an Arcane Trickster, go to level 4 then Arcane Archer to 6 then back to Rogue. With the Rogue dip you get the sneak attack boost, additional use for your intelligence, a crap ton of role play ability and readily available bonus actions. I also get the Hex spell through Fey Touched to pair with Grasping arrow (giving disadvantage on the roll to break it since it is a check and not a save) or with Mage Hand Legerdemain.
Start with 16 Dex/16 Int. Boost intelligence to 18 through Fey Touched (hex) and Telekenetic, then either sharpshooter or an ASI at level 10.
If you take both arcane archer and ranger you can pop off both an arcane shot and a spell on the same attack. Front loading damage is always more valuable and if you get to 3 in ranger you can add on the subclass damage from something like swarmkeeper.
I think we would find that Hail of Thorns and Ensnaring Strike hold up very well against Bursting Arrow and Grasping Arrow. More information below.
The big win with this multiclass would be the awesome combination of short rest and long rest resources. Plus whichever ongoing ranger level 3 subclass damage bump you get. Very strong.
Take bursting arrow average of 7 damage, in a 10' area, times three targets, applying to hit chance if you wish. Compare that to an upcast hail of thorns with only 2 targets, using whatever math for average damage and save for half damage, along with a to hit chance you like. A second or third level slot on hail of thorns is well within the same ballpark as bursting arrow.
Although it is tougher to make stick, ensnaring strike is way better than grasping arrow when it does. Grasping arrow is a little poison damage, a loss of 10' of movement, and further punishment if you do. The restrained condition alone, even if there was zero damage output, makes ensnaring strike (with only a first level spell slot!!!) a great option. A great anti flying or lockdown option with lots and lots of spam chances.
Has anyone made a concept for a Ranger that’s able to weave their spells to the arrows to make an attack.
-I would say that where the arrow touches will activate the spell. You would use the damage die, but use the spell mod for the attack if you applied a spell. Base damage for normal attack.
-In order to gain new spells you have to be in contact with another spell caster thats willing to teach you the spell.
There’s a good number of ranger spells that do that very thing already. Right in the player’s handbook, in fact.
It sounds like you want homebrew instead of actual builds. however, you could multiclass artificer or fighter: arcane archer But then you probably would just want to play one of those classes instead. If you want specific pre-existing spells and abilities let me know.
I have taken ritual caster on a ranger to make one a little more arcane. You can do most of a "wizards" job that way and planning around it.
Yes, the 5E Arcane Archer Fighter subclass was a (failed) attempt to bring back a 3.5E prestige class based on this concept. But I don't have a homebrew ready to go for you or anything.
If you're really in love with this idea, I would start with something like this as a chassis:
Spellbow: You can use any ranged weapon with which you are proficient that needs ammunition (typically a sling, bow, crossbow, or blowgun, but your DM may allow firearms) as a Druidic Focus for your spellcasting, and you add a Focus requirement to all of your Ranger spells (just like an Artificer). When you cast a spell, you can fire the spell from your weapon, provided the range of the spell is not Self: change the spell's range to the long range of the weapon. Doing so has the spell consume 1 piece of ammunition for the weapon.
Then extrapolate from there.
Why would you say Arcane Archer failed? I never played the 3.5 prestige class but Arcane Archer leans into the theme of an arcane bowman quite well and with the extra feat you get at 6th level you can make it even better.
The main concern with arcane archer is the limited use of the arcane shot (2 per short rest feels bad for some) And a couple of options that feel like " build traps" the dislike is understandable but I think there is some good potential there especially for multiclass builds. some options should be avoided but not as many as haters assume.
I love the arcane archer.
Here is a video really making some good points. https://youtu.be/bjpkKqV5eL8
People complain about all kinds of stuff. But I think the subclass, if you’re going to play a fighter at all, is good. Three levels of arcane archer for a otherwise full ranger archer is very fun and potent. It blends well with ranger’s otherwise full rest resources.
If you are metagaming it is not the most powerful fighter, but the grasping arrow is pretty powerful, more powerful than any of the battlemaster maneuvers and lasts a lot longer. I think that more than makes up for fewer uses. An AA build with sharpshooter is going to outrun a lot of martials and if you pair it with the telekenetic feat it will be tough for most martials to keep up in terms of damage. Certainly you can build more powerful builds but I don't think most of the martials I have seen played will keep up with that.
The 2 times a short rest is a limit certainly, but I think it is a burst feature vice a sustained one.
There are better and worse options for both fighter subclasses, battle master and arcane archer. I agree that the better options for arcane archer are way better than the better options for battle master with a bow.
Any AA build is going to be “better” at the thing it’s built for, so that comparison seems like a waste of all of our energy.
No matter what, arcane archer, battle master, monks, warlocks, the “sub game” is management of short rest resources. If short rests a few and far between, these types loose ground. When short rests are plentiful, these types pull past the rest.
Not sure I agree completely on needing to invest in intelligence.
Certainly a decent intelligence is required, but grasping arrow gets no save, so it is a completely viable option with a mediocre intellligence like a 12 and investing nothing therefter.
That said I would agree that a high intelligence of 14+ works best on this build, but really after 6th level your dexterity can be maxed. So when I play AA I gravitate towards a high-intelligence build because it fits thematically and with its ribbon abilities but the class is not really very MAD. Certainly a base Paladin or Ranger has it worse in that regard and I would say Rune Knight and Eldritch Knight are both more MAD than AA.
Yes to this. And, a fighter is still a fighter. Doing fighter things. Take a single class fighter build and tell me it’s “AA”. Comparing ANY single class build versus most multiclass builds and you’ll have an imbalance in favor of the multiclass. Multiclassing, feats, and magic items all change things considerably. Let’s talk about a straight fighter back a straight warlock and see what we get then.
Or we could instead talk about adding more magic to Rangers since thats what the Original post was about.
Rangers are one class that does seem to multiclass well. I consider that a feature not a flaw. especially PHB beastmasters usually only want 15 levels max (beastmasters rarely need feral senses) and those extra spells(from multiclassing) really help the spell sharing feature.
I like playing high int rangers and it mixes well with artificer. Having glow arrows, smell arrows, and being really good at crafting special arrows is fun to me. There's the walloping arrows and arrows of slaying.
LOL!! Fair enough. Thank you for steering the conversation back.
I do have to agree here. Yes, dexterity first then wisdom second is the railroad way of building a ranger, but they pair well with many full casters. Intelligence is fine if you have given a little love to your ranger's intelligence score. Wisdom has such great companions in druid and cleric, and thats my personal favorite. Any of the fighters with magic would work as you only need the dexterity to do the multiclass. Fighters now have a good handful of magic infused subclasses, all of which would greatly change and likely enhance a ranger archer, with only really 3 levels needed. There are many rangers that have a level or two in fighter just because (you know why), so adding one more level in fighter (especially after your 5th level in ranger for extra attack) is a great idea.
It is not a save, it is a check, it requires an action to do, it is not an automatic. Even with an 8 intelligence you are going to do auto poison damage, auto damage every time they are moved between when you hit and their turn and then they will lose their action to try to break it.
That is pretty powerful.
All of those are much weaker than grasping arrow and generally not able to be used more often. They all also require a bonus action or action to cast.
Ensnaring strike gets a save when it hits, large enemies get an advantage to that save and even if the save is failed it is going to take 3 rounds to exceed the extra damage done on grasping arrow the first round, not counting the extra movement damage which you can pile up turn after turn. You also have to maintain concentration on it. For it to be generally better than grasping arrow, you would need to upcast at 3rd level (requiring a 9th level Ranger) and because of the save you would need to cast it with a 20 wisdom s well.
Hail of Thorns is going to average 5.5 damage with a failed save, 2 damage with a successful one and it is going to be over a 5 foot area of affect. Its most direct Arcane Archer competitor is bursting Arrow 4 times the area of hail of thorns and does average 7 damage with no save.
Zephyr Strike is difficult to compare because it is more about mobility than damage. In terms of damage, against a low or medium AC enemy virtually any of the Arcane Archers shots are going to do more damage, most without a save. Against a high AC Zephyr strike could come out on top due to the advantage on the attack, however that is not really appropriate because you don't use the Arcane shots until after you hit. So you are comparing a resource with a chance of payoff (and not a good one if AC is very high) to a resource that always works when you spend it, and if you do hit the Arcane Shots will do substantially more damage.
They don't require Charisma for their spells but they do for their other abilities, notably their CD and aura of protection.
That is certainly viable.
To be honest I like multiclasses with almost any build. My favorite with Arcane Archer is start an Arcane Trickster, go to level 4 then Arcane Archer to 6 then back to Rogue. With the Rogue dip you get the sneak attack boost, additional use for your intelligence, a crap ton of role play ability and readily available bonus actions. I also get the Hex spell through Fey Touched to pair with Grasping arrow (giving disadvantage on the roll to break it since it is a check and not a save) or with Mage Hand Legerdemain.
Start with 16 Dex/16 Int. Boost intelligence to 18 through Fey Touched (hex) and Telekenetic, then either sharpshooter or an ASI at level 10.
If you take both arcane archer and ranger you can pop off both an arcane shot and a spell on the same attack. Front loading damage is always more valuable and if you get to 3 in ranger you can add on the subclass damage from something like swarmkeeper.
I think we would find that Hail of Thorns and Ensnaring Strike hold up very well against Bursting Arrow and Grasping Arrow. More information below.
The big win with this multiclass would be the awesome combination of short rest and long rest resources. Plus whichever ongoing ranger level 3 subclass damage bump you get. Very strong.
Take bursting arrow average of 7 damage, in a 10' area, times three targets, applying to hit chance if you wish. Compare that to an upcast hail of thorns with only 2 targets, using whatever math for average damage and save for half damage, along with a to hit chance you like. A second or third level slot on hail of thorns is well within the same ballpark as bursting arrow.
Although it is tougher to make stick, ensnaring strike is way better than grasping arrow when it does. Grasping arrow is a little poison damage, a loss of 10' of movement, and further punishment if you do. The restrained condition alone, even if there was zero damage output, makes ensnaring strike (with only a first level spell slot!!!) a great option. A great anti flying or lockdown option with lots and lots of spam chances.