Extra Attack: "...Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..." Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher: "...If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action..." Action Surge: "...On your turn, you can take one additional action..." Unleash Incarnation: "...Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional meele attack from the echo's position..." Haste: "...Until the spell ends, the target ... gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only)..."
First round: Bonus Action: Create Echo Action1 : 2 Attacks (thanks to extra attack) This triggers Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher (another attack) and Unleash Incarnation (another attack) Action Surge for another Action Action2: 2 Attacks (thanks to extra attack) This triggers Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher (another attack) and Unleash Incarnation (another attack) Haste attack (no attack from extra attack, gloom stalker or Unleash Incarnation, because Haste says so)
Can someone please clear up how many attacks I could make in my first round with a level 5 gloomstalker / level 3 echo knight with haste cast on me?
I think it's
1 x dread ambush
2 x attack
Bonus action create echo
Action surge
1 x dread ambush
2 x attack
1 x bonus, wrong hand attack
1 x unleash incarnation
Haste then means I get 2 further attacks only, or also a bonus action?
And does action surge allow a full turn including bonus actions?
No, action surge does /not/ create an additional bonus action. Haste does not give you a second swing on the action point action either. You get a flat 1 bonus action attack and 1 attack from haste, regardless of how many full actions you may be able to take.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yep. I read it over and was like, hmmm. I am pretty sure that's not what they intended, but that's what it says. If I were DMing, I'd tell the player that it might get edited if I think it's causing a problem. it depends on how often they are actually getting dread ambusher in.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Rangers don't get much , this little nugget is joyful in the first round only, it also burns up my one use of action surge. More often than not, my dread ambush attack misses anyway.
That's why I'd be hesitant to ban it out-right. I feel that it's not an /intended/ use and /feels/ exploity, but as long as it's not disruptive...the idea of taking things away from rangers makes me a sad panda.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It's fine. An extra attack or two in the first round of combat isn't going to suddenly make rangers OP. Especially since the first round is the setup round for the ranger, so they might have to choose between hunter's mark and another way to spend their bonus action. Lots of attacks on turn 1 is one of the few things the gloom stalker has going for it.
Yeah, the whole idea of dread ambusher is that it heavily amplifies your first turn in every combat. It's more powerful than other combat tricks because you don't get to choose when to use it. In return, it's got good synergy with other things. Putting action surge and ambusher together should be encouraged, not banned: it's strong without wrecking balance, lets the ranger be in the spotlight for a turn without overshadowing the other party members in the following turns, it suits the flavor of the subclass... if you ban or nerf it you are doing your players a disservice. Let your players have cool moments.
I have no idea how you would come to the conclusion that this wasnt intended.
Because it does exactly what it says it does:
Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.
When the spell ends, the target can't move or take actions until after its next turn, as a wave of lethargy sweeps over it.
It gains /an/ additional action on each of it's turns. Action surge is /not/ an additional turn, it is an additional action. I'm surprised you can come to any /other/ conclusion.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I was talking about the interaction between action surge and Dread Ambusher/Unleash Incarnation, not if Actions Surge is something other than an additional action.
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Can someone please clear up how many attacks I could make in my first round with a level 5 gloomstalker / level 3 echo knight with haste cast on me?
I think it's
1 x dread ambush
2 x attack
Bonus action create echo
Action surge
1 x dread ambush
2 x attack
1 x bonus, wrong hand attack
1 x unleash incarnation
Haste then means I get 2 further attacks only, or also a bonus action?
And does action surge allow a full turn including bonus actions?
Extra Attack: "...Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..."
Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher: "...If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action..."
Action Surge: "...On your turn, you can take one additional action..."
Unleash Incarnation: "...Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional meele attack from the echo's position..."
Haste: "...Until the spell ends, the target ... gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only)..."
First round:
Bonus Action: Create Echo
Action1 : 2 Attacks (thanks to extra attack) This triggers Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher (another attack) and Unleash Incarnation (another attack)
Action Surge for another Action
Action2: 2 Attacks (thanks to extra attack) This triggers Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher (another attack) and Unleash Incarnation (another attack)
Haste attack (no attack from extra attack, gloom stalker or Unleash Incarnation, because Haste says so)
=> 9 attacks
I don't think the Gloom Stalker feature happens twice. It's a one-time deal only. Otherwise, yes: eight attacks. Holy sh*t!
It does , with an action surge, in the first round only.
There's a thread about it somewhere.
No, action surge does /not/ create an additional bonus action. Haste does not give you a second swing on the action point action either. You get a flat 1 bonus action attack and 1 attack from haste, regardless of how many full actions you may be able to take.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Thanks
Couldn't find the thread here, but Jeremy Crawford confirmed you're correct on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/950172203424731136
It might be one of the rare examples of where I'd break with the writers of the rules.
Yep. I read it over and was like, hmmm. I am pretty sure that's not what they intended, but that's what it says. If I were DMing, I'd tell the player that it might get edited if I think it's causing a problem. it depends on how often they are actually getting dread ambusher in.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Rangers don't get much , this little nugget is joyful in the first round only, it also burns up my one use of action surge. More often than not, my dread ambush attack misses anyway.
It seems to like rolling 3s, lol
That's why I'd be hesitant to ban it out-right. I feel that it's not an /intended/ use and /feels/ exploity, but as long as it's not disruptive...the idea of taking things away from rangers makes me a sad panda.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It's fine. An extra attack or two in the first round of combat isn't going to suddenly make rangers OP. Especially since the first round is the setup round for the ranger, so they might have to choose between hunter's mark and another way to spend their bonus action. Lots of attacks on turn 1 is one of the few things the gloom stalker has going for it.
@crzyhawk: Look at the wording of Haste and compare it the the wording of Action Surge. Interactions like this are intended for action surge. There is even a tweet from Jeremy Crawford https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/950172203424731136?lang=de
I have no idea how you would come to the conclusion that this wasnt intended.
Yeah, the whole idea of dread ambusher is that it heavily amplifies your first turn in every combat. It's more powerful than other combat tricks because you don't get to choose when to use it. In return, it's got good synergy with other things. Putting action surge and ambusher together should be encouraged, not banned: it's strong without wrecking balance, lets the ranger be in the spotlight for a turn without overshadowing the other party members in the following turns, it suits the flavor of the subclass... if you ban or nerf it you are doing your players a disservice. Let your players have cool moments.
Because it does exactly what it says it does:
Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.
When the spell ends, the target can't move or take actions until after its next turn, as a wave of lethargy sweeps over it.
It gains /an/ additional action on each of it's turns. Action surge is /not/ an additional turn, it is an additional action. I'm surprised you can come to any /other/ conclusion.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I was talking about the interaction between action surge and Dread Ambusher/Unleash Incarnation, not if Actions Surge is something other than an additional action.