That said, rangers can still get two solid uses out of the feat. Not every wizard is going to get the full benefit of War Caster, but 2/3 isn't bad. Most won't get the full use out of Shield Master, either.
Is it Really fair comparing the Wizard and the Ranger in this instance? Wizards get to choose from cantrips that A) do damage and often B) limit the combat capability of their foes. Shocking Grasp and Ray of Frost are there for a reason.
It's absolutely fair. There are plenty of feats or builds that will only see use for 2/3 of the perks. Heck, a wizard could take Crossbow Expert just for ignoring cover with their ranged spell attacks. But I digress.
First of all, stop focusing just on cantrips. Any single target spell will do. A wizard could choose hold person on a humanoid. A cleric or paladin could choose command. I can't believe I need to keep saying that.
Second, how many wizards are fighting in melee to even provoke an opportunity attack?
Lastly, for what now feels like the millionth time, interrupting concentration is the player's choice; if you don't like doing it, don't pick lots of concentration spells, this is the exact same situation for any caster. Rangers have alternatives to many of concentration spells that are just as useful and don't interrupt concentration.
However, losing concentration after getting hit is Not the player's choice. Therefore, it baffles me that the base Ranger has no options to boost their CON saves except by taking a feat like Warcaster, which is half wasted b/c Rangers get no cantrips. I'm hoping that the Tasha's variant will finally allow Rangers to either get a few cantrips or get a bonus to concentration saves.
People usually take Resilient (CON), but yeah.
The only Cantrips you can get as Ranger is via feat or the Druidic Warrior fighting style which gives you 2 Cantrips from the Druid spell list. Fits if you want to play a more magic focussed Ranger that's closer to a Druid than a martial class but doesn't really work for other Rangers.
I realize this is about a month stale, but thought I'd point out that this is not entirely true. I'm playing a Half-Elf Ranger of Hgh Elf descent. This allows me to take one cantrip from the Wizard spell list. I took Booming Blade.
Going to add that to Blind Fighting and Fog Cloud with the Warcaster feat and see how that goes. I kind of regretted taking the race for the cantrip option because I didn't realize when I did it that I couldn't use the cantrip coupled with the Extra Attacks and as a Horizon Walker that really kills the usefulness at later stages.
But with this build I think I'll come close to maximizing its usefulness. I like the extra thinking it makes the enemies (the DM I guess lol) do when being hit with Booming Blade versus Sentinel.... "Should I move...?" Couple that with being totally blind in Fog. I think this will be plenty fun haha.
That said, rangers can still get two solid uses out of the feat. Not every wizard is going to get the full benefit of War Caster, but 2/3 isn't bad. Most won't get the full use out of Shield Master, either.
Is it Really fair comparing the Wizard and the Ranger in this instance? Wizards get to choose from cantrips that A) do damage and often B) limit the combat capability of their foes. Shocking Grasp and Ray of Frost are there for a reason.
It's absolutely fair. There are plenty of feats or builds that will only see use for 2/3 of the perks. Heck, a wizard could take Crossbow Expert just for ignoring cover with their ranged spell attacks. But I digress.
First of all, stop focusing just on cantrips. Any single target spell will do. A wizard could choose hold person on a humanoid. A cleric or paladin could choose command. I can't believe I need to keep saying that.
Second, how many wizards are fighting in melee to even provoke an opportunity attack?
A lot of wizards are forced into melee by others attacking Them. That's why Shocking Grasp is a thing, right?
I focus on cantrips because using them is one of the benefits of Warcaster. You don't care about that part of the feat, fine. But some of us want more crunch from our feats because they are a rare commodity for most classes.
What any random person chooses in terms of a feat is not the point. The point is that Rangers fall behind in the concentration department despite many being otherwise melee effective half-casters. Paladins have mitigation for this problem. War Mage wizards and Bladesingers are both FULL casters and they also have built-in ways to mitigate this issue. I don't see why it's somehow unreasonable that the Ranger class gets a way to to this as well without spending on a feat that is 2/3s useless to them.
Everyone knows that the spells hunter's mark and hex can't be moved to a new target until the turn AFTER you reduce a target to zero hit points, right?
Lastly, for what now feels like the millionth time, interrupting concentration is the player's choice; if you don't like doing it, don't pick lots of concentration spells, this is the exact same situation for any caster. Rangers have alternatives to many of concentration spells that are just as useful and don't interrupt concentration.
However, losing concentration after getting hit is Not the player's choice. Therefore, it baffles me that the base Ranger has no options to boost their CON saves except by taking a feat like Warcaster, which is half wasted b/c Rangers get no cantrips. I'm hoping that the Tasha's variant will finally allow Rangers to either get a few cantrips or get a bonus to concentration saves.
People usually take Resilient (CON), but yeah.
The only Cantrips you can get as Ranger is via feat or the Druidic Warrior fighting style which gives you 2 Cantrips from the Druid spell list. Fits if you want to play a more magic focussed Ranger that's closer to a Druid than a martial class but doesn't really work for other Rangers.
I realize this is about a month stale, but thought I'd point out that this is not entirely true. I'm playing a Half-Elf Ranger of Hgh Elf descent. This allows me to take one cantrip from the Wizard spell list. I took Booming Blade.
Going to add that to Blind Fighting and Fog Cloud with the Warcaster feat and see how that goes. I kind of regretted taking the race for the cantrip option because I didn't realize when I did it that I couldn't use the cantrip coupled with the Extra Attacks and as a Horizon Walker that really kills the usefulness at later stages.
But with this build I think I'll come close to maximizing its usefulness. I like the extra thinking it makes the enemies (the DM I guess lol) do when being hit with Booming Blade versus Sentinel.... "Should I move...?" Couple that with being totally blind in Fog. I think this will be plenty fun haha.
I usually exclude racial stuff when talking about classes because frankly I find picking a race for its crunch rather lame.
I mean, it wasn’t picked for the crunch at all. Why the hell would I pick a half-elf (pre-TCE) for a martial based ranger and put my lowest stat roll on STR (thought it was a neat idea that he’d been shot through the shoulder blade of his dominant side while fleeing and had to tend to it himself hiding out in the wilderness, but it never healed right) if it were for the crunch? It was entirely for the flavor, as I hadn’t even considered war caster at the time, not realizing initially that you had to choose between using the Cantrip or making a second attack. I chose the feat for its crunch, but also because for a martial based Ranger with an Arcana proficiency it seemed to make a lot of sense.
Pre-TCE, even with the cantrip option, half-elf was just about the worst race you could pick for a Ranger. I like finding these things that shouldn’t work from a build optimization standpoint and finding a way to make them powerfully optimized within their own niche as they grow. I personally find taking feats like Magic Initiate kind of ”lame,” without good reason. Seen too many people do it just to have Magic, or a familiar or something or because their monk rogue “would want to use it since he’s the only one in the party without Magic.”
Call it lame if you want, but I honestly just love the cool factor of a maimed former crown’s guard turned ranger who shrouds the battlefield in fog, slashing through his sightless enemies, with a thunderous boom sounding out any time one tries to flee.
If you want to really cheese this kind of build with a race, play a Drow.
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or play multiple campaigns that last for years :)
Good luck getting a group together for that, and if you have that feel free to invite me, lol
It's absolutely fair. There are plenty of feats or builds that will only see use for 2/3 of the perks. Heck, a wizard could take Crossbow Expert just for ignoring cover with their ranged spell attacks. But I digress.
First of all, stop focusing just on cantrips. Any single target spell will do. A wizard could choose hold person on a humanoid. A cleric or paladin could choose command. I can't believe I need to keep saying that.
Second, how many wizards are fighting in melee to even provoke an opportunity attack?
Resolved issue, can’t delete the post, sorry
I realize this is about a month stale, but thought I'd point out that this is not entirely true. I'm playing a Half-Elf Ranger of Hgh Elf descent. This allows me to take one cantrip from the Wizard spell list. I took Booming Blade.
Going to add that to Blind Fighting and Fog Cloud with the Warcaster feat and see how that goes. I kind of regretted taking the race for the cantrip option because I didn't realize when I did it that I couldn't use the cantrip coupled with the Extra Attacks and as a Horizon Walker that really kills the usefulness at later stages.
But with this build I think I'll come close to maximizing its usefulness. I like the extra thinking it makes the enemies (the DM I guess lol) do when being hit with Booming Blade versus Sentinel.... "Should I move...?" Couple that with being totally blind in Fog. I think this will be plenty fun haha.
A lot of wizards are forced into melee by others attacking Them. That's why Shocking Grasp is a thing, right?
I focus on cantrips because using them is one of the benefits of Warcaster. You don't care about that part of the feat, fine. But some of us want more crunch from our feats because they are a rare commodity for most classes.
What any random person chooses in terms of a feat is not the point. The point is that Rangers fall behind in the concentration department despite many being otherwise melee effective half-casters. Paladins have mitigation for this problem. War Mage wizards and Bladesingers are both FULL casters and they also have built-in ways to mitigate this issue. I don't see why it's somehow unreasonable that the Ranger class gets a way to to this as well without spending on a feat that is 2/3s useless to them.
Everyone knows that the spells hunter's mark and hex can't be moved to a new target until the turn AFTER you reduce a target to zero hit points, right?
I mean, it wasn’t picked for the crunch at all. Why the hell would I pick a half-elf (pre-TCE) for a martial based ranger and put my lowest stat roll on STR (thought it was a neat idea that he’d been shot through the shoulder blade of his dominant side while fleeing and had to tend to it himself hiding out in the wilderness, but it never healed right) if it were for the crunch? It was entirely for the flavor, as I hadn’t even considered war caster at the time, not realizing initially that you had to choose between using the Cantrip or making a second attack. I chose the feat for its crunch, but also because for a martial based Ranger with an Arcana proficiency it seemed to make a lot of sense.
Pre-TCE, even with the cantrip option, half-elf was just about the worst race you could pick for a Ranger. I like finding these things that shouldn’t work from a build optimization standpoint and finding a way to make them powerfully optimized within their own niche as they grow. I personally find taking feats like Magic Initiate kind of ”lame,” without good reason. Seen too many people do it just to have Magic, or a familiar or something or because their monk rogue “would want to use it since he’s the only one in the party without Magic.”
Call it lame if you want, but I honestly just love the cool factor of a maimed former crown’s guard turned ranger who shrouds the battlefield in fog, slashing through his sightless enemies, with a thunderous boom sounding out any time one tries to flee.
If you want to really cheese this kind of build with a race, play a Drow.