First of: I'm DMing a group for the first time and running the Dragon of Icespire peak adventure. I've been a GM/DM/Storyteller etc. for a long time, but am fairly new to DnD 5th. (had a brief run back in Advanced DnD ages ago) and one of my players wanted to play a ranger, aiming for the Beast master subclass. And I think it's awesome! She like the idea of playing a bit of a Legolas with bow and arrows and a wolf companion. I've warned her that the beast master seem quite weak. But she likes the style and so I'm going to encourage it! But now I'm asking for some advice of what I should think of when DMing as well as asking for any advice on her behalf as a player. How to best utilize her companion (having to spend actions to direct the wolf to attack or distract enemies when talking is a free action seems odd). It might matter that she's a pure newbie and haven't played any RPGs before.
I've been stalking the forums and read up a bit on the Ranger and Beast master class articles here on DnDBeyond but mostly find complaints of how bad/broken the class is and then a heap of counter arguments telling people that with the right tweaks it's very powerful and then counter-counter arguments again ad infinitum.But I'd really like more advice on how to play it, more than how to build it.
I love reading those threads as it gives some understanding for the class and so far they have given me a few ideas. But what I'm looking for is not how my player should build the class in regards to which beast or spells to pick or how to allocate her skills. But more tactics or such for actually playing.
So far I've made sure that she knows the different regions and types of terrain they'll be exploring and will be focusing on forests as her special area of expertise. She's chosen Beasts as her favoured enemy. She simply thought it would make sense being a hunter, more than a "monster slayer" from the start. And now the group have finally advanced to lvl. 3 She's gotten a wonderfully awesome wolf and feel ready to do some serious adventuring!
I'm going to confess that I'm quite a nice DM, whatever my players may say. I always try to balance my adventures so everyone can shine and so that all of us have a good time, regardless of chosen race or class. A TPK is not a loss for the players, but for me as well. So I find it important that I understand how this particular subclass works and how I can enhance the experience.
I'm going to allow death saving throws for the beast companion and I'm also thinking of letting her wolf continue attacking the target she's sent it against without needing to spend every single round (after the first) telling a big, strong and scary predator to "BITE!" "BITE!" "TACKLE!" "BITE AGAIN!" (Feels like I'm playing Pokémon when writing this) when that should come quite naturally. As she'd like to focus on the bond she creates with this particular wolf, and not switching to a new pet every single time the last one stood too close to a Fireball. (Go Wolf no. 43! BITE!). I'm going to allow her to resurrect a dead companion by meditating for 8 hours.
That's my thoughts so far as to how I can improve her experience. Do you guys have any other tips or so for how she can use her companion in and out of combat. Or any for me as to what I should think of to make the adventure an experience to remember for a beastmaster? Thanks for your time everyone!
--<Edit>-- Just a thought. what would happen if the groups Druid cast awaken on the wolf?
Hi! I'll start by saying I'm "pro" ranger and beast master from the PHB, so I'm biased that direction. I've got a bunch of thoughts for you and your player.
1. The wolf is a great choice. Thematically and mathematically solid. Some things to remember about it specifically is the knockdown effect is a strength saving throw. Not many monsters other than big bad types have proficiency in strength saving throws. So that, based on a swingy d20 die, should still be working 30%, 40%, or even 50% of the time with creatures with strength modifiers of up to +4.
2. Wolves have a passive perception (after the ranger bonus) of 21 on hearing and smell. That...is...out of the ballpark. Make use of that as a DM. That is the level of passive perception that a high level rogue or cleric enjoy, and your ranger's buddy has it starting at level 3! When it is on watch at early and mid levels it is doing a really good job. Almost worth the subclass choice all by itself. LOL!
3. If you look at only the baseline archer ranger from levels 1 through 10, you'll find their average damage is equal to or greater than other classes like fighters, paladins, rogues, monks, and barbarians. The hunter gets a damage boost at level 3 where as the beast master "only" gets a beast. So it feels weaker. A couple of things about this. 1. Rangers already do the same or more damage than other classes at these levels of play, the hunter just does a little more so it FEELS bad. 2. The beast adds extra opportunity attacks, the ability to attack something somewhere on the battlefield the ranger can't, a good ranged option for a melee ranger (either by placement on the battlefield or with a flying beast), half cover for an archer ranger (the wolf is medium so standing behind it gives the ranger the cover), extra hit points for the party, effect options (knock down), and damage options. Remember that a ranger and warlock can't move their hunter's mark or hex spell to a new target the same turn another creature is reduced to zero hit points. So at level 3 a ranger with a longbow and hunter's mark is doing 11 (d8 + d6 + 3) average damage on a hit, and the wolf (with the ranger bonus) is doing 9 (2d4 + 2 + 2) average damage. That is basically a little better than the ranger without hunter's mark cast or on the target. So if you are out of spell slots, have the mark on a different target, didn't want to cast it, or just wanted the knockdown effect instead on 2 more damage, the wolf actually does MORE damage than a baseline ranger (who again, does as much damage as al the other martial classes in levels 1 through 10). Also, at level 7 when the ranger as firing away with hunter's mark up, the wolf can do the help action for the ranger or other party members. Your great weapon master buddies will LOVE Fido! If nothing else, the wolf is a high AC, bag of extra hit points, opportunity attack waiting to happen on the battlefield.
4. Once you get to level 5, and definitely when you get to level 11, hunter's mark may not be the best option for the ranger anymore, in terms of concentration anyway. Fog cloud, spike growth, and conjure animals are all tactically great uses of a ranger's concentration and especially a beast master ranger. Fog could with an archer and wolf gives you the ability to pop out of the cloud to shoot and pop back in the cloud to be almost unhittable from a decent distance while still having an active effect on the front lines from the wolf. Spike growth is great in general but even better when you can further encourage the enemy to stay behind it or go through it, and a beast companion can help that encouragement. Conjure animals (at ranger level 9) is, in my opinion, basically what gives rangers much of their mid and late game power. It provides damage output, meat shields, help actions, blocking, swimming and flying combatants, and effects like poison, knocking prone, or grappling/restraining.
5. You are doing very well by giving the wolf death saving throw's. It does not specifically say it gets them in the ability, but in the PHB about death saving throws in the description the ranger's beast companion is at the top of the list as a candidate for the ability as any I can think of.
6. Beast sense is an spell that isn't thought of much but it's really good. It provides the ranger with an ability like that of the wizards familiar (that people love/hate so much). Your ranger should use it, especially in an outdoor exploration game.
7. Barding. Even if it's hide to start with. The wolf will have a starting armor class of 15 (with the ranger bonus) but it can be even better with just a small amount of gold and/or crafting. Simple hide barding will give the wolf an AC of 16 (equal to a fighter or paladin, and certainly the ranger at this level). Get the wolf some scale mail and at level 9 it will have an AC of 20!
8. Awaken from the druid would only add to the role play as far as I would think. Maybe the wolf is it's own thing now. Would it become a sidekick at that point? Would it lose the ranger's bonuses? That's up to you, the DM. It would be fun either way. The wolf is now a member of the party and the ranger could get a hawk as a new buddy for them and the wolf!
I really enjoyed these episodes of a podcast called The Tome Show where they talked about the 5E PHB ranger class and beast master subclass. Schuyler Esau, Brandes Stoddard, and especially Dan Dillon really help make sense of a great, if not poorly written, class and subclass.
Please don't forget about pet usable magic items. Many modules forget about animals. You shouldn't give them all options but you should try for at least some.
Periapt of Wound Closure (A must have if pet death becomes problematic and could remove the need for the Homebrew resurrection rule)
Insignia of Claws
Magic items that add skills or Saving throw proficiency (more for PHB than Tasha's ranger)...... OR check out dmg section on modifying a monster.
transformation items or scrolls. Hellhound cloak any one? or modify it for a winter wolf.
spell storing ring (uses of dragons breath inside as one example)
Something that would allow the ranger to cast spare the dying ( possibly even the pet. Think Saint bernard keg so the pet could help if the ranger is down) ** homebrew***
magic Barding
Also remember the pet should have downtime. So hunting or training are big ones that can be done while traveling or sitting in place.
If you really don't like the action economy of The phb ranger I highly suggest using Tasha's instead. I don't recommend homebrewing the Class rules. I think in some ways PHB much better than tasha's but in others ways tasha's wins out. It makes beast master a lot easier to play and solves almost every issue you described. It also allows for specific pet choices for flavor reasons when original rules would not allow it.
I also took the feat ritual caster druid (Human Varriant). It allowed me to copy beast sense/ speak with animals and got a lot of good druid/ranger rituals as well. This freed up a lot of spell slots for combat. I got a high level of satisfaction from this build.
Interesting. I have been looking at Ritual Caster. How did you manage to get the ritual spells in your ritual book, or did the GM just let you transfer over Ranger/Druid ones that you knew? Finding spell scrolls seems to be difficult in many of the modules.
I have a druid in the party so I have been pondering doing the making and transferring of spells to scrolls to ritual book as the route.
The dm allowed the druid And wizard (for a couple)to teach me. The druid could have scribed a scroll and then I could have copied it. It was just ruled that if the druid just spent the downtime, with the spell prepared, they could help me. We then could bypass the scroll scribing cost and only pay the ritual caster cost. Some of the lower level scrolls are not too pricy for purchase depending on how stingy your dm is. Rangers and beastmasters also are good at collecting extra herbs and supplies to trade. Even if you only get your two starting spells and beast sense it saves a lot of slots. IMO. speak with animals + Favored enemy Beasts(for animal handling) can do a lot with most dms.
Probably not as good of a build idea if Playing AL mostly for the money reasons.
I have a pretty reasonable DM and we have talked about it so I think we could probably work out something similar. Given the similarity of Druid and Ranger magic that should be reasonable.
Looking at the spell lists, the Tasha bonus spells make it a little less needed (Beast Sense and Speak to Animals are both on the Primal Awareness list). Regardless it seems like a fun way to shift some of the spell casting in a party, and could be fun to roleplay.
i would like to say the Death saves is probably a good move on your part. it's something i'd probably do myself but never really thought about it.
When it comes to ordering them around. i think officially it's still an action for a regular beast master to command their pet but i'd say have it be a bonus action like it is with the Primal Beasts. To keep it even if nothing else. And the idea that they can keep it attacking without telling it to every turn is strong. So it's something to kind of monitor a little bit to see how much it's adding but it is an idea i like and it's not without precedent even within the same class feature. Specially since the Beast attacking is effectively like the BM Ranger's bonus action attack option.
Your description of the support you plan to give your player will negate the majority of the problems with the Ranger. Even if you did nothing else but what you described, your player should have very few reasonable complaints pertaining to the class underwhelming, dissatisfying, or underpowered compared to a DM that doesn't do what you are doing.
My default boost to the beastmaster Ranger is just allowing the beast to be controlled as if it is another character, it gets its own Action, Move, Bonus Action and Reaction separate from the Ranger, the way it was in 3rd edition. It requires no work on the DMs part. The player has a true companion in battle, they don't have to give up their superior attack actions or spells for a weaker beast attack. You have more options to protect the squishy beast in battle, whether through movement or spells or distracting/killing the most immediate threat to your beast.
Hi everyone!
First of: I'm DMing a group for the first time and running the Dragon of Icespire peak adventure. I've been a GM/DM/Storyteller etc. for a long time, but am fairly new to DnD 5th. (had a brief run back in Advanced DnD ages ago) and one of my players wanted to play a ranger, aiming for the Beast master subclass. And I think it's awesome! She like the idea of playing a bit of a Legolas with bow and arrows and a wolf companion. I've warned her that the beast master seem quite weak. But she likes the style and so I'm going to encourage it! But now I'm asking for some advice of what I should think of when DMing as well as asking for any advice on her behalf as a player. How to best utilize her companion (having to spend actions to direct the wolf to attack or distract enemies when talking is a free action seems odd). It might matter that she's a pure newbie and haven't played any RPGs before.
I've been stalking the forums and read up a bit on the Ranger and Beast master class articles here on DnDBeyond but mostly find complaints of how bad/broken the class is and then a heap of counter arguments telling people that with the right tweaks it's very powerful and then counter-counter arguments again ad infinitum.But I'd really like more advice on how to play it, more than how to build it.
I love reading those threads as it gives some understanding for the class and so far they have given me a few ideas. But what I'm looking for is not how my player should build the class in regards to which beast or spells to pick or how to allocate her skills. But more tactics or such for actually playing.
So far I've made sure that she knows the different regions and types of terrain they'll be exploring and will be focusing on forests as her special area of expertise. She's chosen Beasts as her favoured enemy. She simply thought it would make sense being a hunter, more than a "monster slayer" from the start. And now the group have finally advanced to lvl. 3 She's gotten a wonderfully awesome wolf and feel ready to do some serious adventuring!
I'm going to confess that I'm quite a nice DM, whatever my players may say. I always try to balance my adventures so everyone can shine and so that all of us have a good time, regardless of chosen race or class. A TPK is not a loss for the players, but for me as well. So I find it important that I understand how this particular subclass works and how I can enhance the experience.
I'm going to allow death saving throws for the beast companion and I'm also thinking of letting her wolf continue attacking the target she's sent it against without needing to spend every single round (after the first) telling a big, strong and scary predator to "BITE!" "BITE!" "TACKLE!" "BITE AGAIN!" (Feels like I'm playing Pokémon when writing this) when that should come quite naturally. As she'd like to focus on the bond she creates with this particular wolf, and not switching to a new pet every single time the last one stood too close to a Fireball. (Go Wolf no. 43! BITE!). I'm going to allow her to resurrect a dead companion by meditating for 8 hours.
That's my thoughts so far as to how I can improve her experience. Do you guys have any other tips or so for how she can use her companion in and out of combat. Or any for me as to what I should think of to make the adventure an experience to remember for a beastmaster?
Thanks for your time everyone!
--<Edit>--
Just a thought. what would happen if the groups Druid cast awaken on the wolf?
Hi! I'll start by saying I'm "pro" ranger and beast master from the PHB, so I'm biased that direction. I've got a bunch of thoughts for you and your player.
1. The wolf is a great choice. Thematically and mathematically solid. Some things to remember about it specifically is the knockdown effect is a strength saving throw. Not many monsters other than big bad types have proficiency in strength saving throws. So that, based on a swingy d20 die, should still be working 30%, 40%, or even 50% of the time with creatures with strength modifiers of up to +4.
2. Wolves have a passive perception (after the ranger bonus) of 21 on hearing and smell. That...is...out of the ballpark. Make use of that as a DM. That is the level of passive perception that a high level rogue or cleric enjoy, and your ranger's buddy has it starting at level 3! When it is on watch at early and mid levels it is doing a really good job. Almost worth the subclass choice all by itself. LOL!
3. If you look at only the baseline archer ranger from levels 1 through 10, you'll find their average damage is equal to or greater than other classes like fighters, paladins, rogues, monks, and barbarians. The hunter gets a damage boost at level 3 where as the beast master "only" gets a beast. So it feels weaker. A couple of things about this. 1. Rangers already do the same or more damage than other classes at these levels of play, the hunter just does a little more so it FEELS bad. 2. The beast adds extra opportunity attacks, the ability to attack something somewhere on the battlefield the ranger can't, a good ranged option for a melee ranger (either by placement on the battlefield or with a flying beast), half cover for an archer ranger (the wolf is medium so standing behind it gives the ranger the cover), extra hit points for the party, effect options (knock down), and damage options. Remember that a ranger and warlock can't move their hunter's mark or hex spell to a new target the same turn another creature is reduced to zero hit points. So at level 3 a ranger with a longbow and hunter's mark is doing 11 (d8 + d6 + 3) average damage on a hit, and the wolf (with the ranger bonus) is doing 9 (2d4 + 2 + 2) average damage. That is basically a little better than the ranger without hunter's mark cast or on the target. So if you are out of spell slots, have the mark on a different target, didn't want to cast it, or just wanted the knockdown effect instead on 2 more damage, the wolf actually does MORE damage than a baseline ranger (who again, does as much damage as al the other martial classes in levels 1 through 10). Also, at level 7 when the ranger as firing away with hunter's mark up, the wolf can do the help action for the ranger or other party members. Your great weapon master buddies will LOVE Fido! If nothing else, the wolf is a high AC, bag of extra hit points, opportunity attack waiting to happen on the battlefield.
4. Once you get to level 5, and definitely when you get to level 11, hunter's mark may not be the best option for the ranger anymore, in terms of concentration anyway. Fog cloud, spike growth, and conjure animals are all tactically great uses of a ranger's concentration and especially a beast master ranger. Fog could with an archer and wolf gives you the ability to pop out of the cloud to shoot and pop back in the cloud to be almost unhittable from a decent distance while still having an active effect on the front lines from the wolf. Spike growth is great in general but even better when you can further encourage the enemy to stay behind it or go through it, and a beast companion can help that encouragement. Conjure animals (at ranger level 9) is, in my opinion, basically what gives rangers much of their mid and late game power. It provides damage output, meat shields, help actions, blocking, swimming and flying combatants, and effects like poison, knocking prone, or grappling/restraining.
5. You are doing very well by giving the wolf death saving throw's. It does not specifically say it gets them in the ability, but in the PHB about death saving throws in the description the ranger's beast companion is at the top of the list as a candidate for the ability as any I can think of.
6. Beast sense is an spell that isn't thought of much but it's really good. It provides the ranger with an ability like that of the wizards familiar (that people love/hate so much). Your ranger should use it, especially in an outdoor exploration game.
7. Barding. Even if it's hide to start with. The wolf will have a starting armor class of 15 (with the ranger bonus) but it can be even better with just a small amount of gold and/or crafting. Simple hide barding will give the wolf an AC of 16 (equal to a fighter or paladin, and certainly the ranger at this level). Get the wolf some scale mail and at level 9 it will have an AC of 20!
8. Awaken from the druid would only add to the role play as far as I would think. Maybe the wolf is it's own thing now. Would it become a sidekick at that point? Would it lose the ranger's bonuses? That's up to you, the DM. It would be fun either way. The wolf is now a member of the party and the ranger could get a hawk as a new buddy for them and the wolf!
I really enjoyed these episodes of a podcast called The Tome Show where they talked about the 5E PHB ranger class and beast master subclass. Schuyler Esau, Brandes Stoddard, and especially Dan Dillon really help make sense of a great, if not poorly written, class and subclass.
http://www.thetomeshow.com/e/round-table-121-beast-master-and-murders-and-acquistions/
http://www.thetomeshow.com/e/all-about-rangers-tome-296/
Please don't forget about pet usable magic items. Many modules forget about animals. You shouldn't give them all options but you should try for at least some.
Also remember the pet should have downtime. So hunting or training are big ones that can be done while traveling or sitting in place.
If you really don't like the action economy of The phb ranger I highly suggest using Tasha's instead. I don't recommend homebrewing the Class rules. I think in some ways PHB much better than tasha's but in others ways tasha's wins out. It makes beast master a lot easier to play and solves almost every issue you described. It also allows for specific pet choices for flavor reasons when original rules would not allow it.
I also took the feat ritual caster druid (Human Varriant). It allowed me to copy beast sense/ speak with animals and got a lot of good druid/ranger rituals as well. This freed up a lot of spell slots for combat. I got a high level of satisfaction from this build.
Interesting. I have been looking at Ritual Caster. How did you manage to get the ritual spells in your ritual book, or did the GM just let you transfer over Ranger/Druid ones that you knew? Finding spell scrolls seems to be difficult in many of the modules.
I have a druid in the party so I have been pondering doing the making and transferring of spells to scrolls to ritual book as the route.
The dm allowed the druid And wizard (for a couple)to teach me. The druid could have scribed a scroll and then I could have copied it. It was just ruled that if the druid just spent the downtime, with the spell prepared, they could help me. We then could bypass the scroll scribing cost and only pay the ritual caster cost. Some of the lower level scrolls are not too pricy for purchase depending on how stingy your dm is. Rangers and beastmasters also are good at collecting extra herbs and supplies to trade. Even if you only get your two starting spells and beast sense it saves a lot of slots. IMO. speak with animals + Favored enemy Beasts(for animal handling) can do a lot with most dms.
Probably not as good of a build idea if Playing AL mostly for the money reasons.
I have a pretty reasonable DM and we have talked about it so I think we could probably work out something similar. Given the similarity of Druid and Ranger magic that should be reasonable.
Looking at the spell lists, the Tasha bonus spells make it a little less needed (Beast Sense and Speak to Animals are both on the Primal Awareness list). Regardless it seems like a fun way to shift some of the spell casting in a party, and could be fun to roleplay.
Thanks for all the replies, guys!
I do believe my player (and I) will have lots of fun with this class!
i would like to say the Death saves is probably a good move on your part. it's something i'd probably do myself but never really thought about it.
When it comes to ordering them around. i think officially it's still an action for a regular beast master to command their pet but i'd say have it be a bonus action like it is with the Primal Beasts. To keep it even if nothing else. And the idea that they can keep it attacking without telling it to every turn is strong. So it's something to kind of monitor a little bit to see how much it's adding but it is an idea i like and it's not without precedent even within the same class feature. Specially since the Beast attacking is effectively like the BM Ranger's bonus action attack option.
Your description of the support you plan to give your player will negate the majority of the problems with the Ranger. Even if you did nothing else but what you described, your player should have very few reasonable complaints pertaining to the class underwhelming, dissatisfying, or underpowered compared to a DM that doesn't do what you are doing.
My default boost to the beastmaster Ranger is just allowing the beast to be controlled as if it is another character, it gets its own Action, Move, Bonus Action and Reaction separate from the Ranger, the way it was in 3rd edition. It requires no work on the DMs part. The player has a true companion in battle, they don't have to give up their superior attack actions or spells for a weaker beast attack. You have more options to protect the squishy beast in battle, whether through movement or spells or distracting/killing the most immediate threat to your beast.