Lvl 3 pact of the chain warlock with imp familiar.
I cast darkness on a coin that my imp is holding, he then goes invisible, closes his hand (blocking darkness), and moves to the bad guy.
Next round:
Imp uses an object interaction to open his hand. Releasing the darkness. He then holds his action until the bad guys turn is over. His action is to close his hand, allowing the party to target the bad guy.
Repeat.
Even if he cannot block the darkness while invisible, he has devil's sight and can fly 40ft. So just hang out in the air.
Ive heard of the devil's sight invocation/darkness combo, but this frees up your turn and gives your party a window to attack.
Any thoughts as to why this breaks a rule or is a bad idea (other than it'll get old fast and my dm will hate it)
Lvl 3 pact of the chain warlock with imp familiar.
I cast darkness on a coin that my imp is holding, he then goes invisible, closes his hand (blocking darkness), and moves to the bad guy.
Next round:
Imp uses an object interaction to open his hand. Releasing the darkness. He then holds his action until the bad guys turn is over. His action is to close his hand, allowing the party to target the bad guy.
Repeat.
Even if he cannot block the darkness while invisible, he has devil's sight and can fly 40ft. So just hang out in the air.
Ive heard of the devil's sight invocation/darkness combo, but this frees up your turn and gives your party a window to attack.
Any thoughts as to why this breaks a rule or is a bad idea (other than it'll get old fast and my dm will hate it)
You can't cast Darkness on an object that being worn or carried by someone else, so it would not work since the coin is carried by the imp.
You'd have to either hold the coin or drop it out before casting Darkness so the imp can pick it up. After that the imp can cover/uncover the coin.
Darkness: If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn’t being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness.
Lvl 3 pact of the chain warlock with imp familiar.
I cast darkness on a coin that my imp is holding, he then goes invisible, closes his hand (blocking darkness), and moves to the bad guy.
Next round:
Imp uses an object interaction to open his hand. Releasing the darkness. He then holds his action until the bad guys turn is over. His action is to close his hand, allowing the party to target the bad guy.
Repeat.
Even if he cannot block the darkness while invisible, he has devil's sight and can fly 40ft. So just hang out in the air.
Ive heard of the devil's sight invocation/darkness combo, but this frees up your turn and gives your party a window to attack.
Any thoughts as to why this breaks a rule or is a bad idea (other than it'll get old fast and my dm will hate it)
Well yes, it will get old fast and your DM will hate it, but….. I don’t believe holding a action isn’t in the books. It might be and I just haven’t read close enough, but I believe that’s a house rule. But if your DM uses it then it works.
1) It's quite meta to act "after a turn", you need to declare what the trigger is. If you said "after they act", and they readied an action, then the imps hand wouldn't open.
2) They can just move away from your imp. 15ft radius means they could try to perceive (hear) your imp, or just book it in any direction 30ft. Good chance they'll be outta range if they choose a random direction.
3) They can just attack normally. Disadvantage would cancel as it's from an unseen attacker; meaning the darkness hasn't impeded your enemy.
Conceptually I like the idea. It is taking advantage of the turn based system in a sense but I think it works in a narrative as well. The turn based system is just an abstraction of time for a game mechanic to set up the exchanges happening during a fights narrative. So your ready action(no delay in 5e which I personally think is dumb but so be it) to close /open your hand is in one sense abusing it. On the other hand if you think of it as the imp is paying attention to the fight as they can see in the darkness waiting for opportune times to have the darkness up and down and how would you do that with the rules it makes sense as something that would happen. They can only do it once a turn so it would in theory only super effective vs one opponent.
That being said, I'm not sure darkness would be stopped by an invisible hand. And as pointed out due to how darkness works both your party and enemy would not have disadvantage so unless he was attacking the warlock who hopefully has devils sight, or the imp he wouldn't be at disadvantage as the attack disadvantage for being blinded is negated by the defenders granting advantage due to them being blinded, and magically he'd know where everyone was if they were not hiding because again rules. It would stop some spells that need you to be able to see the target so vs wizards it might be useful I guess.
Invisible doesn't mean invincible. Once your familiar starts to be come too much of an irritant to the DM or the enemy, then it's a fair target with low AC and no hitpoints, that has to be within 15 feet. Sure, you can just re-summon your familiar, but that'll cost the other of your two pact magic slot, as well as the traditionally handwaved material components "10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier" if you're really getting on your DM's nerves. If strength was your dumpstat, that 50lb brazier is going to be hard to drag around just to play hide-and-seek. Also, the darkness spell does specifically state that whatever covers the object has to be opaque, which an invisible hand or mouth is not. And finally, after level 3, you'll find that most adventures will include at least one bad guy with Legendary Actions, that allow them to make attacks on other people's turns.
Darkness/Devil's Sight is a fun trick to play at lower levels, but it's probably not a strategy you'll want to invest much designing your whole character around.
The only part that would feel questionable to me is the aforementioned lack of opacity of the imp's hand while invisible to cover the darkness coin. Also, I think you'd only have disadvantage on the foe's attacks in the scenario.
If the imp wasn't trying to cover the darkness coin while invisible I'm not sure why this would be considered anything close to an exploit myself, just seems like using a character's abilities within the framework of the rules, but that's just me. Sure it adds to the workload somewhat, but seems like a valid tactic. If the DM doesn't like it they've got plenty of ways to make this bite the character in the posterior or otherwise negate the advantage of the tactic that isn't an equivalent of blue bolts.
I'd argue an invisible imp doesn't cover the object anymore, but mechanically, sure nothing's preventing your imp from carrying a coin with darkness cast on it and switching from covering and uncovering it.
The "not casting on an object being hold" clause doesn't matter at all as you could just cast it first and then let the imp pick it up or give it to him or whatever. It's just there so you don't cast it on an enemy and trap them in darkness that way.
The only real problem here would be that it's very cheesy and I'd say it falls under the category of "exploit". If your group is fine with that then go for it, but chances are that your DM just houserules that your imp can't do both in the same round. That way you can still use that tactic in some form but it doesn't break encounters for a super low cost.
I agree with the covering and uncovering part, a bit too much specially when it comes to waiting for the enemy to act first.
I would just cast darkness on a pebble i'm holding, hand pebble to Imp, bonus action for Imp to attack on its turn (Investment of the Chain Master invocation for that part) leaving me and Imp in darkness until Imp's turn. On Imp's turn it flys over to enemy, attacks with advantage, then flys back to me (as close as it can get with 40 feet of flight movement) then i'm in darkness again, I cast agonizing blast, bonus attack for Imp to attack, flys back over with darkness then back to me, rinse and repeat.
I'm actually considering this for a 3rd lvl warlock i'm making for a One Shot...but I feel like it might be too annoying and OP and make the DM annoyed. Kinda ruins the fun when you can abuse things so still on the fence whether to do it or not.
Invisible doesn't mean invincible. Once your familiar starts to be come too much of an irritant to the DM or the enemy, then it's a fair target with low AC and no hitpoints, that has to be within 15 feet. Sure, you can just re-summon your familiar, but that'll cost the other of your two pact magic slot, as well as the traditionally handwaved material components "10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier" if you're really getting on your DM's nerves. If strength was your dumpstat, that 50lb brazier is going to be hard to drag around just to play hide-and-seek. Also, the darkness spell does specifically state that whatever covers the object has to be opaque, which an invisible hand or mouth is not. And finally, after level 3, you'll find that most adventures will include at least one bad guy with Legendary Actions, that allow them to make attacks on other people's turns.
Darkness/Devil's Sight is a fun trick to play at lower levels, but it's probably not a strategy you'll want to invest much designing your whole character around.
Imp's have 10 HP plus resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, piercing and is immune to fire and poison and has magic resistance giving it advantage on saves against spells. And if its hit with something it doesn't have resistance too, if you take Investment of the Chain Master invocation as a reaction you can grant resistance to your Imp on whatever it was hit with. So no matter what its getting hit with half dmg, so at lower levels it should survive two hits. Also everything is attacking it with disadvantage unless its got blindsight/truesight. but ya at higher levels it looses its great status and its more for the Help action and scouting i'd say.
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Lvl 3 pact of the chain warlock with imp familiar.
I cast darkness on a coin that my imp is holding, he then goes invisible, closes his hand (blocking darkness), and moves to the bad guy.
Next round:
Imp uses an object interaction to open his hand. Releasing the darkness. He then holds his action until the bad guys turn is over. His action is to close his hand, allowing the party to target the bad guy.
Repeat.
Even if he cannot block the darkness while invisible, he has devil's sight and can fly 40ft. So just hang out in the air.
Ive heard of the devil's sight invocation/darkness combo, but this frees up your turn and gives your party a window to attack.
Any thoughts as to why this breaks a rule or is a bad idea (other than it'll get old fast and my dm will hate it)
You can't cast Darkness on an object that being worn or carried by someone else, so it would not work since the coin is carried by the imp.
You'd have to either hold the coin or drop it out before casting Darkness so the imp can pick it up. After that the imp can cover/uncover the coin.
Well yes, it will get old fast and your DM will hate it, but….. I don’t believe holding a action isn’t in the books. It might be and I just haven’t read close enough, but I believe that’s a house rule. But if your DM uses it then it works.
Personally, I think it's a bad idea.
1) It's quite meta to act "after a turn", you need to declare what the trigger is. If you said "after they act", and they readied an action, then the imps hand wouldn't open.
2) They can just move away from your imp. 15ft radius means they could try to perceive (hear) your imp, or just book it in any direction 30ft. Good chance they'll be outta range if they choose a random direction.
3) They can just attack normally. Disadvantage would cancel as it's from an unseen attacker; meaning the darkness hasn't impeded your enemy.
Conceptually I like the idea. It is taking advantage of the turn based system in a sense but I think it works in a narrative as well. The turn based system is just an abstraction of time for a game mechanic to set up the exchanges happening during a fights narrative. So your ready action(no delay in 5e which I personally think is dumb but so be it) to close /open your hand is in one sense abusing it. On the other hand if you think of it as the imp is paying attention to the fight as they can see in the darkness waiting for opportune times to have the darkness up and down and how would you do that with the rules it makes sense as something that would happen. They can only do it once a turn so it would in theory only super effective vs one opponent.
That being said, I'm not sure darkness would be stopped by an invisible hand. And as pointed out due to how darkness works both your party and enemy would not have disadvantage so unless he was attacking the warlock who hopefully has devils sight, or the imp he wouldn't be at disadvantage as the attack disadvantage for being blinded is negated by the defenders granting advantage due to them being blinded, and magically he'd know where everyone was if they were not hiding because again rules. It would stop some spells that need you to be able to see the target so vs wizards it might be useful I guess.
Invisible doesn't mean invincible. Once your familiar starts to be come too much of an irritant to the DM or the enemy, then it's a fair target with low AC and no hitpoints, that has to be within 15 feet. Sure, you can just re-summon your familiar, but that'll cost the other of your two pact magic slot, as well as the traditionally handwaved material components "10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier" if you're really getting on your DM's nerves. If strength was your dumpstat, that 50lb brazier is going to be hard to drag around just to play hide-and-seek. Also, the darkness spell does specifically state that whatever covers the object has to be opaque, which an invisible hand or mouth is not. And finally, after level 3, you'll find that most adventures will include at least one bad guy with Legendary Actions, that allow them to make attacks on other people's turns.
Darkness/Devil's Sight is a fun trick to play at lower levels, but it's probably not a strategy you'll want to invest much designing your whole character around.
The only part that would feel questionable to me is the aforementioned lack of opacity of the imp's hand while invisible to cover the darkness coin. Also, I think you'd only have disadvantage on the foe's attacks in the scenario.
If the imp wasn't trying to cover the darkness coin while invisible I'm not sure why this would be considered anything close to an exploit myself, just seems like using a character's abilities within the framework of the rules, but that's just me. Sure it adds to the workload somewhat, but seems like a valid tactic. If the DM doesn't like it they've got plenty of ways to make this bite the character in the posterior or otherwise negate the advantage of the tactic that isn't an equivalent of blue bolts.
I agree with the covering and uncovering part, a bit too much specially when it comes to waiting for the enemy to act first.
I would just cast darkness on a pebble i'm holding, hand pebble to Imp, bonus action for Imp to attack on its turn (Investment of the Chain Master invocation for that part) leaving me and Imp in darkness until Imp's turn. On Imp's turn it flys over to enemy, attacks with advantage, then flys back to me (as close as it can get with 40 feet of flight movement) then i'm in darkness again, I cast agonizing blast, bonus attack for Imp to attack, flys back over with darkness then back to me, rinse and repeat.
I'm actually considering this for a 3rd lvl warlock i'm making for a One Shot...but I feel like it might be too annoying and OP and make the DM annoyed. Kinda ruins the fun when you can abuse things so still on the fence whether to do it or not.
Imp's have 10 HP plus resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, piercing and is immune to fire and poison and has magic resistance giving it advantage on saves against spells. And if its hit with something it doesn't have resistance too, if you take Investment of the Chain Master invocation as a reaction you can grant resistance to your Imp on whatever it was hit with. So no matter what its getting hit with half dmg, so at lower levels it should survive two hits. Also everything is attacking it with disadvantage unless its got blindsight/truesight. but ya at higher levels it looses its great status and its more for the Help action and scouting i'd say.