Trying to understand spells. I believe my below assumption(s) is correct.
At 8:00am I cast Mage Armor on me.
At 8:10am I cast Mage Armor on the party barbarian and he can still use the unarmored defense attribute but now it is based on a 13 unarmored base # vice 10 unarmored base #.
At 8:20am I cast Mage Armor on the party wizard.
At 8:30am I cast Mage Armor on the party druid,
At 4:00 pm I can recast on myself.
At 4:10 pm I can recast on the Barbarian
And so on and so on......
Basically I can give every member of the party Mage Armor as long as I wait ??? is delay 6 seconds or 10 minutes or ????
If you have enough spell slots to cast Mage Armor on all those people, then yes. It's probably not worth your time, because Mage armor isn't that hot.
If you're trying to do it with Armor of Shadows, then no, you can't:
Armor of Shadows
You can cast Mage Armor on yourself without expending a spell slot.
You can cast it only on yourself from the invocation.
Also, no, it doesn't combine with the Barbarian's unarmored defense. Both give you an alternate way of calculating your AC. Mage armor makes it 13 + dex bonus. Unarmored defense makes it 10 + Con and Dex bonuses. Neither simply gives +X to AC, so you have two abilities saying "Your AC is Y", and they cannot both be true.
Armor of Shadows is more worth it early on, less so later on but you can switch it out. There are things like Archmagi Robes, for example, which are better in the end game and Warlock usually focuses on CHA over DEX, so the AC falls behind.
Personally, unless you have another source of temporary HP, I'd say Fiendish Vigor is a better pick since it also helps against AoEs and is easily replenished, meanwhile with AoS, you're getting the same defense as a studded leather +1 offers, only 1 AC over studded leather, which warlock can wear, it's not a great improvement.
Armor of Shadows is more worth it early on, less so later on but you can switch it out. There are things like Archmagi Robes, for example, which are better in the end game and Warlock usually focuses on CHA over DEX, so the AC falls behind.
Personally, unless you have another source of temporary HP, I'd say Fiendish Vigor is a better pick since it also helps against AoEs and is easily replenished, meanwhile with AoS, you're getting the same defense as a studded leather +1 offers, only 1 AC over studded leather, which warlock can wear, it's not a great improvement.
Yes, and this is especially true now under the 2024 rules, with False Life granting more temp HP in general and Fiendish Vigor now always maxing it out. At low levels, 12 is a lot of temp HP to be able to just give yourself for free whenever you want.
Yes, and this is especially true now under the 2024 rules, with False Life granting more temp HP in general and Fiendish Vigor now always maxing it out. At low levels, 12 is a lot of temp HP to be able to just give yourself for free whenever you want.
Yes, I feel Armor of Shadows was really a mistake to leave as is, more so with Dragonic sorcerer getting a buff to Dragonic Resilence. I can understand Mage Armor being 13+Dex for Wizard and Sorcerer, since they lack light armor proficency but for warlock it makes little sense. I personally hope they fix it at some point to make Armor of Shadows the same as Dragonic Resilence (10+CHA Mod+DEX Mod), then it'd actually be worthwhile using as a Warlock past level 3~4, since the AC would actually be boost on what Warlock normally gets.
Yes, and this is especially true now under the 2024 rules, with False Life granting more temp HP in general and Fiendish Vigor now always maxing it out. At low levels, 12 is a lot of temp HP to be able to just give yourself for free whenever you want.
Yes, I feel Armor of Shadows was really a mistake to leave as is, more so with Dragonic sorcerer getting a buff to Dragonic Resilence. I can understand Mage Armor being 13+Dex for Wizard and Sorcerer, since they lack light armor proficency but for warlock it makes little sense. I personally hope they fix it at some point to make Armor of Shadows the same as Dragonic Resilence (10+CHA Mod+DEX Mod), then it'd actually be worthwhile using as a Warlock past level 3~4, since the AC would actually be boost on what Warlock normally gets.
I would agree, that would be a sensible change to make. Especially given that we also now have the College of Dance Bard, which has an unarmored base AC feature that works exactly like the 2024 Draconic Resilience, and like Warlocks they already have light armor proficiency.
Studded leather is only 12ac + dex, AOS is 13ac+dex. Temp HP is awesome but not taking damage is even better. By level 6, a warlock can go down in 1-3 hits depending on the enemy. You can always swap it out at higher levels if you get a better option but unless your DM is easy, that's not going to be until maybe lvl 10+, maybe. It's unlikely they are going to change mage armor or AOS to be stronger. Edit, and it works every attack. AOS is an action.
I consider Armor of shadows a trap option. 1 AC for a invocation isn't worth it even at low levels before you get magical armor. Especially when fiendish vigor will do more for you at the levels where Armor of Shadows gets you that measly 1 AC.
Studded leather is only 12ac + dex, AOS is 13ac+dex. Temp HP is awesome but not taking damage is even better. By level 6, a warlock can go down in 1-3 hits depending on the enemy. You can always swap it out at higher levels if you get a better option but unless your DM is easy, that's not going to be until maybe lvl 10+, maybe. It's unlikely they are going to change mage armor or AOS to be stronger.
But its only 5% of hits that the 1Ac made a difference. You probably are getting hit something like 30% of the time instead of 35% of the time. That 1 AC did nothing 30% of the time but the 12 hit points did.
It is a terrible option, and they really should have fixed it.
Studded leather is only 12ac + dex, AOS is 13ac+dex. Temp HP is awesome but not taking damage is even better. By level 6, a warlock can go down in 1-3 hits depending on the enemy. You can always swap it out at higher levels if you get a better option but unless your DM is easy, that's not going to be until maybe lvl 10+, maybe. It's unlikely they are going to change mage armor or AOS to be stronger.
But its only 5% of hits that the 1Ac made a difference. You probably are getting hit something like 30% of the time instead of 35% of the time. That 1 AC did nothing 30% of the time but the 12 hit points did.
It is a terrible option, and they really should have fixed it.
The biggest problem with Armor of Shadows is that it has no scaling. That extra +1 AC might help at low levels, but later on when enemies have +10 or more to hit, they are still going to be hitting pretty much any time they swing at you. In the long run, the temporary hit points will increase your suvivability much more than the AC bonus will.
Studded leather is only 12ac + dex, AOS is 13ac+dex. Temp HP is awesome but not taking damage is even better. By level 6, a warlock can go down in 1-3 hits depending on the enemy. You can always swap it out at higher levels if you get a better option but unless your DM is easy, that's not going to be until maybe lvl 10+, maybe. It's unlikely they are going to change mage armor or AOS to be stronger.
But its only 5% of hits that the 1Ac made a difference. You probably are getting hit something like 30% of the time instead of 35% of the time. That 1 AC did nothing 30% of the time but the 12 hit points did.
It is a terrible option, and they really should have fixed it.
The biggest problem with Armor of Shadows is that it has no scaling. That extra +1 AC might help at low levels, but later on when enemies have +10 or more to hit, they are still going to be hitting pretty much any time they swing at you. In the long run, the temporary hit points will increase your suvivability much more than the AC bonus will.
I have a lot of problems with it, its lack of scaling is a big one.
1. Even at low levels 1 AC is not worth a invocation. If that is all it gives it should be baked into the class, no invocation needed.
2. At mid levels to high levels it is absolutely pointless as you likely have +1 studded. Sure you can train out of it, but no invocation should fade that hard. Scaling could fix that, but it would need aggressive scaling to be decent.
3. Casting existing spells at will is kind of lame. Create a unique ability that mimics the spells with minor twists.
things they could have done. Bake it in as is but preferably not cast a spell just describe it as you know occult rituals which have increased your base AC to 13, and have invocations that improve it or if you still need to actually pick the invocation to get its base form just have it give a flat +1 Ac every X warlock level. Go a unarmored defense route, chr bonus goes to AC. Make it a spin on pact of the blade, where its effectively pact of the armor you summon shadowy armor with which you are proficient its limits based on balance of some kind like maybe only medium and a shield when gained, a additional invocation for heavy.
Would it be too broken to homebrew it that as long as you are wearing light armor, you can add your charisma modifier to your AC? Adds natural scaling but prevents abuse on paladin builds. I suppose it could be a problem on Dance Bards or the UA Genie paladin but maybe you add that this doesn't stack with other class features that let you add your Charisma to AC. Just musing. I too agree AoS is a trap and only ever was useful as a multi-class exploit on old Abjuration wizard.
Would it be too broken to homebrew it that as long as you are wearing light armor, you can add your charisma modifier to your AC? Adds natural scaling but prevents abuse on paladin builds. I suppose it could be a problem on Dance Bards or the UA Genie paladin but maybe you add that this doesn't stack with other class features that let you add your Charisma to AC. Just musing. I too agree AoS is a trap and only ever was useful as a multi-class exploit on old Abjuration wizard.
Yes. If you have +3 to dex. and cha. at level one, you have 18 ac. At level 20 with +3 studded leather and +5 dex. and cha., you would have an ac of 25.
I mean fair game I suppose. This assumes +3 armor and spending 4 feats on full ASI and 2 dump stats to start at +3 dex & cha at level 1. Also...warlocks aren't strictly speaking "full casters" even though they do level up to 9th level spells. In actual play, their balance is closer to a half caster in power in many ways and no one bats an eye at a Paladin or even a true full caster Cleric for that matter having a starting AC of 18.
Maybe the fix is that AoS grants you the unlimited Mage Armor as normal but lets you substitute your Charisma score for your Dex score when cast this way. Thus making it 13+Charisma so it maxes at 18/19 AC without magic items or shields.
Alternatively (assuming you're running 2024 rules, and are at least level 2+), take Lesson of the First Ones, grab Magic Initiate: Wizard, and get Mage Armor and two other Wizard Cantrips of your choice.
If you have time at the beginning of the day, Cast it and Short Rest back your Spell slot. Save the Free Casting for when you don't have time, for an emergency, for a long adventuring day, or use it on someone else if you really have to.
Trying to understand spells. I believe my below assumption(s) is correct.
At 8:00am I cast Mage Armor on me.
At 8:10am I cast Mage Armor on the party barbarian and he can still use the unarmored defense attribute but now it is based on a 13 unarmored base # vice 10 unarmored base #.
At 8:20am I cast Mage Armor on the party wizard.
At 8:30am I cast Mage Armor on the party druid,
At 4:00 pm I can recast on myself.
At 4:10 pm I can recast on the Barbarian
And so on and so on......
Basically I can give every member of the party Mage Armor as long as I wait ??? is delay 6 seconds or 10 minutes or ????
If you have enough spell slots to cast Mage Armor on all those people, then yes. It's probably not worth your time, because Mage armor isn't that hot.
If you're trying to do it with Armor of Shadows, then no, you can't:
You can cast it only on yourself from the invocation.
Also, no, it doesn't combine with the Barbarian's unarmored defense. Both give you an alternate way of calculating your AC. Mage armor makes it 13 + dex bonus. Unarmored defense makes it 10 + Con and Dex bonuses. Neither simply gives +X to AC, so you have two abilities saying "Your AC is Y", and they cannot both be true.
AoS is worth it if you invest heavily in Dex. I'm a backline caster so it works for me.
Armor of Shadows is more worth it early on, less so later on but you can switch it out. There are things like Archmagi Robes, for example, which are better in the end game and Warlock usually focuses on CHA over DEX, so the AC falls behind.
Personally, unless you have another source of temporary HP, I'd say Fiendish Vigor is a better pick since it also helps against AoEs and is easily replenished, meanwhile with AoS, you're getting the same defense as a studded leather +1 offers, only 1 AC over studded leather, which warlock can wear, it's not a great improvement.
Yes, and this is especially true now under the 2024 rules, with False Life granting more temp HP in general and Fiendish Vigor now always maxing it out. At low levels, 12 is a lot of temp HP to be able to just give yourself for free whenever you want.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yes, I feel Armor of Shadows was really a mistake to leave as is, more so with Dragonic sorcerer getting a buff to Dragonic Resilence. I can understand Mage Armor being 13+Dex for Wizard and Sorcerer, since they lack light armor proficency but for warlock it makes little sense. I personally hope they fix it at some point to make Armor of Shadows the same as Dragonic Resilence (10+CHA Mod+DEX Mod), then it'd actually be worthwhile using as a Warlock past level 3~4, since the AC would actually be boost on what Warlock normally gets.
I would agree, that would be a sensible change to make. Especially given that we also now have the College of Dance Bard, which has an unarmored base AC feature that works exactly like the 2024 Draconic Resilience, and like Warlocks they already have light armor proficiency.
pronouns: he/she/they
Studded leather is only 12ac + dex, AOS is 13ac+dex. Temp HP is awesome but not taking damage is even better. By level 6, a warlock can go down in 1-3 hits depending on the enemy. You can always swap it out at higher levels if you get a better option but unless your DM is easy, that's not going to be until maybe lvl 10+, maybe. It's unlikely they are going to change mage armor or AOS to be stronger. Edit, and it works every attack. AOS is an action.
I consider Armor of shadows a trap option. 1 AC for a invocation isn't worth it even at low levels before you get magical armor. Especially when fiendish vigor will do more for you at the levels where Armor of Shadows gets you that measly 1 AC.
But its only 5% of hits that the 1Ac made a difference. You probably are getting hit something like 30% of the time instead of 35% of the time. That 1 AC did nothing 30% of the time but the 12 hit points did.
It is a terrible option, and they really should have fixed it.
The biggest problem with Armor of Shadows is that it has no scaling. That extra +1 AC might help at low levels, but later on when enemies have +10 or more to hit, they are still going to be hitting pretty much any time they swing at you. In the long run, the temporary hit points will increase your suvivability much more than the AC bonus will.
I have a lot of problems with it, its lack of scaling is a big one.
1. Even at low levels 1 AC is not worth a invocation. If that is all it gives it should be baked into the class, no invocation needed.
2. At mid levels to high levels it is absolutely pointless as you likely have +1 studded. Sure you can train out of it, but no invocation should fade that hard. Scaling could fix that, but it would need aggressive scaling to be decent.
3. Casting existing spells at will is kind of lame. Create a unique ability that mimics the spells with minor twists.
things they could have done. Bake it in as is but preferably not cast a spell just describe it as you know occult rituals which have increased your base AC to 13, and have invocations that improve it or if you still need to actually pick the invocation to get its base form just have it give a flat +1 Ac every X warlock level. Go a unarmored defense route, chr bonus goes to AC. Make it a spin on pact of the blade, where its effectively pact of the armor you summon shadowy armor with which you are proficient its limits based on balance of some kind like maybe only medium and a shield when gained, a additional invocation for heavy.
Would it be too broken to homebrew it that as long as you are wearing light armor, you can add your charisma modifier to your AC? Adds natural scaling but prevents abuse on paladin builds. I suppose it could be a problem on Dance Bards or the UA Genie paladin but maybe you add that this doesn't stack with other class features that let you add your Charisma to AC. Just musing. I too agree AoS is a trap and only ever was useful as a multi-class exploit on old Abjuration wizard.
Yes. If you have +3 to dex. and cha. at level one, you have 18 ac. At level 20 with +3 studded leather and +5 dex. and cha., you would have an ac of 25.
I mean fair game I suppose. This assumes +3 armor and spending 4 feats on full ASI and 2 dump stats to start at +3 dex & cha at level 1. Also...warlocks aren't strictly speaking "full casters" even though they do level up to 9th level spells. In actual play, their balance is closer to a half caster in power in many ways and no one bats an eye at a Paladin or even a true full caster Cleric for that matter having a starting AC of 18.
Maybe the fix is that AoS grants you the unlimited Mage Armor as normal but lets you substitute your Charisma score for your Dex score when cast this way. Thus making it 13+Charisma so it maxes at 18/19 AC without magic items or shields.
Alternatively (assuming you're running 2024 rules, and are at least level 2+), take Lesson of the First Ones, grab Magic Initiate: Wizard, and get Mage Armor and two other Wizard Cantrips of your choice.
If you have time at the beginning of the day, Cast it and Short Rest back your Spell slot. Save the Free Casting for when you don't have time, for an emergency, for a long adventuring day, or use it on someone else if you really have to.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage