The rules explicitly list three mutually exclusive options. If you believe there is some specific rule that trumps those rules, then cite it.
You've already been asked to cite a source for your claim that something cannot be both a weapon attack and a spell attack. You go first.
And your claim that there are three mutually exclusive options does not suffice, because those are general rules, and in D&D, specific trumps general. The specific rules for these cantrips which say "as part of the casting of this spell, you make a weapon attack" trumps the general rule of what you claim are "mutually exclusive options."
I did. I cited the section where they talk about the three different categories of Attack Roll. It's completely unambiguous.
True Strike explicitly states you're making a weapon attack. Nothing in the text of True Strike supports the notion that it's also a spell attack.
The rules explicitly list three mutually exclusive options. If you believe there is some specific rule that trumps those rules, then cite it.
You've already been asked to cite a source for your claim that something cannot be both a weapon attack and a spell attack. You go first.
And your claim that there are three mutually exclusive options does not suffice, because those are general rules, and in D&D, specific trumps general. The specific rules for these cantrips which say "as part of the casting of this spell, you make a weapon attack" trumps the general rule of what you claim are "mutually exclusive options."
I did. I cited the section where they talk about the three different categories of Attack Roll. It's completely unambiguous.
True Strike explicitly states you're making a weapon attack. Nothing in the text of True Strike supports the notion that it's also a spell attack.
While I think what you are saying is correct in that it has to be either a weapon attack or a spell attack. These spells are cantrips that use magic to make a weapon attack so I am not sure the relevance. Agonizing blasts only restrictions are Choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage. You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell’s damage rolls. Whether it is through a weapon attack or spell attack it is a cantrip that deals damage. If true strike was a sustained spell that lasted a minute that said something like while this spell is active you have premonitions which help you strike your foes, use your spell casting ability modifier for to hit and damage instead of strength or dexterity then I can see why its not the cantrip attacking. But this is a instantaneous effect you cast the spell and your hand moves through the spell cast to strike someone, it is the same as if was a spell that telekinetically threw objects at enemies for damage. It is the spell doing the attack and damage but it is through a weapon attack.
The rules explicitly list three mutually exclusive options. If you believe there is some specific rule that trumps those rules, then cite it.
You've already been asked to cite a source for your claim that something cannot be both a weapon attack and a spell attack. You go first.
And your claim that there are three mutually exclusive options does not suffice, because those are general rules, and in D&D, specific trumps general. The specific rules for these cantrips which say "as part of the casting of this spell, you make a weapon attack" trumps the general rule of what you claim are "mutually exclusive options."
I did. I cited the section where they talk about the three different categories of Attack Roll. It's completely unambiguous.
True Strike explicitly states you're making a weapon attack. Nothing in the text of True Strike supports the notion that it's also a spell attack.
You're ignoring the "specific beats general" rule, so I don't see any point in arguing further.
I'm am not ignoring "specific beats general". You've yet to produce any text that contains specific rules that contradict the general rules. True Strike explicitly states that you're given a weapon attack. It does not state that this is also a spell attack and the attack being made does not meet the conditions for a spell attack.
The rules are extremely clear here. Spell Attacks and Weapon Attacks are unique, non-overlapping categories. There is no such thing as a "Spell/Weapon Attack", nor have you been able to produce any rules text that suggests there is.
In terms of True Strike being a 'cantrip that deals damage', it isn't. True Strike doesn't deal damage at all. Rather, the weapon attack deals all of the damage. The spell is worded very carefully to ensure that there's no confusion about the fact that the weapon attack, not the spell, deals damage. If the spell dealt damage, it would use a spell attack roll.
The example of a spell that telekinetically throws something actually exists: Catapult. If you read Catapult, it's clear that the spell - not the object - is dealing damage.
And yet here it is clear as well that it is the spell that is doing the damage. "Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice)." The spell is creating and directing the attack with the weapon, if you don't cast the spell the sword just doesn't move. The cantrip is making you make the attack. And last time I checked normal weapons do not do radiant damage either. So it it was just a normal weapon attack that would not happen. And then as you level it does extra radiant damage. It is a cantrip it does damage, it meets the criteria.
On turn 1 my Attack is to cast true strike. The weapon cannot be used as did a magic action.
On turn 2 I can now roll to hit with the weapon and I have true strike as a part of it.
On turn 5 assuming I have thirsting blade,
On turn 1 I cast true strike and then get one weapon attack using true strike.
On turn 2 I can now roll to hit with the weapon twice, but only use true stike damage once.
Everyone is talking about True Strike, not True Strike, because nobody cares about 2014 True Strike.
Also, in regards to the old true strike, you have the mechanics incorrect. You cast it by taking the Cast a Spell action, not the Attack action. So, even if you have extra attack, you have to wait until the next turn to use it. (There's a reason nobody cares about it.)
(In fact, having just read the pop-up description, it's even worse than I remembered.)
On turn 1 my Attack is to cast true strike. The weapon cannot be used as did a magic action.
On turn 2 I can now roll to hit with the weapon and I have true strike as a part of it.
On turn 5 assuming I have thirsting blade,
On turn 1 I cast true strike and then get one weapon attack using true strike.
On turn 2 I can now roll to hit with the weapon twice, but only use true stike damage once.
I believe you are either misunderstanding True Strike in multiple ways, or conflating 2014 True Strike and 2024 True Strike.
2014 True Strike gets on many lists of the worst spells in D&D 5e, because it consumes your action (Cast a Spell Action), and your concentration, and gives you Advantage on your first attack on your Next Turn, when attacking on both turns is almost always superior.
2024 True Strike routinely winds up on lists of "most improved spells in the 2024 update" and is more like a discount Shillelagh, consumes your action (Magic Action) and has you use the Spellcasting Ability modifier that you used to cast the cantrip to make a single attack with the weapon you used in the spell's casting. It is a Weapon Attack and ad Spell Attack, has an Instantaneous duration and has no constraints or requirements on what you do on the following turn.
It is likely not worth 2024 True Strike it if you have the 2024 Thirsting Blade Invocation, since the prerequisite for that is 2024 Pact of the Blade Invocation, which already lets you make attacks with your Pact Weapon using Charisma.
This thread has been pretty much always discussing the 2024 versions of the spells and the abilities.
they assumed 2014 reading as you thought it was the next round you attacked which is how 2014 worked. You cast true strike, it makes you attack instantly.
I did. I cited the section where they talk about the three different categories of Attack Roll. It's completely unambiguous.
True Strike explicitly states you're making a weapon attack. Nothing in the text of True Strike supports the notion that it's also a spell attack.
While I think what you are saying is correct in that it has to be either a weapon attack or a spell attack. These spells are cantrips that use magic to make a weapon attack so I am not sure the relevance. Agonizing blasts only restrictions are Choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage. You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell’s damage rolls. Whether it is through a weapon attack or spell attack it is a cantrip that deals damage. If true strike was a sustained spell that lasted a minute that said something like while this spell is active you have premonitions which help you strike your foes, use your spell casting ability modifier for to hit and damage instead of strength or dexterity then I can see why its not the cantrip attacking. But this is a instantaneous effect you cast the spell and your hand moves through the spell cast to strike someone, it is the same as if was a spell that telekinetically threw objects at enemies for damage. It is the spell doing the attack and damage but it is through a weapon attack.
You're ignoring the "specific beats general" rule, so I don't see any point in arguing further.
I'm am not ignoring "specific beats general". You've yet to produce any text that contains specific rules that contradict the general rules. True Strike explicitly states that you're given a weapon attack. It does not state that this is also a spell attack and the attack being made does not meet the conditions for a spell attack.
The rules are extremely clear here. Spell Attacks and Weapon Attacks are unique, non-overlapping categories. There is no such thing as a "Spell/Weapon Attack", nor have you been able to produce any rules text that suggests there is.
In terms of True Strike being a 'cantrip that deals damage', it isn't. True Strike doesn't deal damage at all. Rather, the weapon attack deals all of the damage. The spell is worded very carefully to ensure that there's no confusion about the fact that the weapon attack, not the spell, deals damage. If the spell dealt damage, it would use a spell attack roll.
The example of a spell that telekinetically throws something actually exists: Catapult. If you read Catapult, it's clear that the spell - not the object - is dealing damage.
And yet here it is clear as well that it is the spell that is doing the damage. "Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice)." The spell is creating and directing the attack with the weapon, if you don't cast the spell the sword just doesn't move. The cantrip is making you make the attack. And last time I checked normal weapons do not do radiant damage either. So it it was just a normal weapon attack that would not happen. And then as you level it does extra radiant damage. It is a cantrip it does damage, it meets the criteria.
Maybe I wrongly understand True Strike.
If I am 1st level warlock, I get 1 attack.
On turn 1 my Attack is to cast true strike. The weapon cannot be used as did a magic action.
On turn 2 I can now roll to hit with the weapon and I have true strike as a part of it.
On turn 5 assuming I have thirsting blade,
On turn 1 I cast true strike and then get one weapon attack using true strike.
On turn 2 I can now roll to hit with the weapon twice, but only use true stike damage once.
Everyone is talking about True Strike, not True Strike, because nobody cares about 2014 True Strike.
Also, in regards to the old true strike, you have the mechanics incorrect. You cast it by taking the Cast a Spell action, not the Attack action. So, even if you have extra attack, you have to wait until the next turn to use it. (There's a reason nobody cares about it.)
(In fact, having just read the pop-up description, it's even worse than I remembered.)
I believe you are either misunderstanding True Strike in multiple ways, or conflating 2014 True Strike and 2024 True Strike.
2014 True Strike gets on many lists of the worst spells in D&D 5e, because it consumes your action (Cast a Spell Action), and your concentration, and gives you Advantage on your first attack on your Next Turn, when attacking on both turns is almost always superior.
2024 True Strike routinely winds up on lists of "most improved spells in the 2024 update" and is more like a discount Shillelagh, consumes your action (Magic Action) and has you use the Spellcasting Ability modifier that you used to cast the cantrip to make a single attack with the weapon you used in the spell's casting. It is a Weapon Attack and ad Spell Attack, has an Instantaneous duration and has no constraints or requirements on what you do on the following turn.
It is likely not worth 2024 True Strike it if you have the 2024 Thirsting Blade Invocation, since the prerequisite for that is 2024 Pact of the Blade Invocation, which already lets you make attacks with your Pact Weapon using Charisma.
This thread has been pretty much always discussing the 2024 versions of the spells and the abilities.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
I know nothing about 2014 as I don't have anything from 2014. So bringing up 2014, now i am very confused.
In 2024 only,
I can do a magic action and a weapon attack? I thought you can only pick one of the two action. Neither would qualify as a bonus action.
they assumed 2014 reading as you thought it was the next round you attacked which is how 2014 worked. You cast true strike, it makes you attack instantly.
the weapon attack is part of casting the cantrip just like a spell attack is part of casting a cantrip like firebolt.