Maybe. They count as simple melee/ranged weapons. It really comes down to if your DM thinks counts as a weapon is enough to make it a weapon for the feature. And whether its nature of being baked into the armor affects that. My gut feeling is not until you use other artificer abilities to enchant them. As unenchanted weapons get summoned and you can't summon something that is part of the armor, enchanted ones are just bound to you with the pact.
It is a class feature of the armorer subclass for artificer.
"Force Demolisher. An arcane wrecking ball or sledgehammer projects from your armor. The demolisher counts as a Simple Melee weapon with the Reach property, and it deals 1d10 Force damage on a hit. If you hit a creature that is at least one size smaller than you with the demolisher, you can push the creature up to 10 feet straight away from yourself or pull the creature up to 10 feet toward yourself."
It is kind of nebulous... it doesn't say that it cannot be disarmed, so I would say that means it is not physically attached to the armor. It does not say anything about sheathing or hiding the weapon at all. All it says is that it counts as a simple weapon with reach. Both Gemini and ChatGPT say it should work... but I wanted to get a consensus from the community. I'm just brainstorming a character idea and don't have a DM to run it by.
I think the above is the actual point for determining use as a pact weapon. Pact weapon is defined below:
...you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand
As the weapon is not in one's hand, then the Force Demolisher can't be a pact weapon. This seems not nebulous. Being able to remove the weapon from armor is not relevant. The Force Demolisher would not be conjured into the players hand as it is a weapon used as part of the armor itself.
Interesting...I hate how vague the rules for some of this stuff are nowadays. Do you even need a hand to use the Force Demolisher? Can you use a shield in one hand, a wand of the war mage in the other, and still attack with the force demolisher? Is the Force Demolisher just projected force energy like a Green Lantern construct, or a physical part of the armor? Can you enchant it? Cast spells on it? If it gets disarmed can someone else pick it up and use it...can you hand it to someone else and let them use it? Does it disappear if dropped? So much just left up to DM interpretation.
I think the above is the actual point for determining use as a pact weapon. Pact weapon is defined below:
...you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand
As the weapon is not in one's hand, then the Force Demolisher can't be a pact weapon. This seems not nebulous. Being able to remove the weapon from armor is not relevant. The Force Demolisher would not be conjured into the players hand as it is a weapon used as part of the armor itself.
The Pact weapon does not have to be a conjured weapon.
Pact of the Blade
As a Bonus Action, you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can’t bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it. Until the bond ends, you have proficiency with the weapon, and you can use it as a Spellcasting Focus.
As I parse that statement, there are two options, and the Force Demolisher could classify under the second, depending on whether or not it classifies as 1) a Magic Weapon 2) that you can touch.. Historically (2014 Sage advice, using the 2014 Pact Boon version of Pact of the Blade) similar phrasing has been used to justify magical Pact Weapons that aren't just melee weapons.
Force Demolisher. An arcane wrecking ball or sledgehammer projects from your armor. The demolisher counts as a Simple Melee weapon with the Reach property, and it deals 1d10 Force damage on a hit. If you hit a creature that is at least one size smaller than you with the demolisher, you can push the creature up to 10 feet straight away from yourself or pull the creature up to 10 feet toward yourself.
I'd have to say "it probably does, but ask your DM" on both counts.
The Force Demolisher Description from the 2024 Armorer Artificer should use 2024 Sage Advice. The 2014 Warlock is very different from the 2024 version. As for people using X to justify, well someone can always justify anything, that does not make it correct.
I think your comment about magic is out of context. You cannot conjure a magic weapon out of nothing like you can with a non magical weapon. Therefore you have to find a magic weapon to use. In finding one, you have to touch it and "own" it. Now you can conjure it into your hand. Otherwise any warlock can instantly use a magic weapon. That would be wrong on so many levels.
I don't think you can parse that language either. In fact I believe in determining the weapon "in your hand" is the most important part. But if you want to parse, "count as" is not the same as "being a simple..."
The Force Demolisher Description from the 2024 Armorer Artificer should use 2024 Sage Advice. The 2014 Warlock is very different from the 2024 version. As for people using X to justify, well someone can always justify anything, that does not make it correct.
I think your comment about magic is out of context. You cannot conjure a magic weapon out of nothing like you can with a non magical weapon. Therefore you have to find a magic weapon to use. In finding one, you have to touch it and "own" it. Now you can conjure it into your hand. Otherwise any warlock can instantly use a magic weapon. That would be wrong on so many levels.
I don't think you can parse that language either. In fact I believe in determining the weapon "in your hand" is the most important part. But if you want to parse, "count as" is not the same as "being a simple..."
The 2024 Sage Advice Guidance on Pact of the Blade gives the same guidance. The intention is indeed that a 2024 Warlock can burn a Bonus Action and instantly be proficient with a Magic Weapon as long as someone else isn't Pact-bonded or Attuned to it.
2024 Pact of the Blade allows you two options for a Pact Weapon.
you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—
or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can’t bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it.
And the "in your hand" phrasing only applies to the one you conjured out of nothing. 2024 Pact of the Blade Invocation does not allow you to conjure your Pact Weapon into your hand at all if it it was pre-existing Magic Weapon at all, A feature of the 2014 Pact Boon Pact of the Blade does, but doesn't apply.
"counts as" in the rulebook does mean "is," for the intents and purposes of the rules of the game. If there are exceptions to how a feature interacts with something that "counts as" something else, those exceptions get spelled out.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
So far the consensus seems to be 'yes' it works. I've spoken to a number of people here and elsewhere, and so far only Character77006 has said no. Mechanically it isn't exploiting anything crazy powerful, just letting you switch your attack rolls fron Int to Cha and letting you change the damage type from Force to Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant...which is a minor buff at best, since Force is already one of the least resisted damage types. I'll figure my Artificer/Warlock multiclass build is safe and viable at most tables.
So far the consensus seems to be 'yes' it works. I've spoken to a number of people here and elsewhere, and so far only Character77006 has said no. Mechanically it isn't exploiting anything crazy powerful, just letting you switch your attack rolls fron Int to Cha and letting you change the damage type from Force to Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant...which is a minor buff at best, since Force is already one of the least resisted damage types. I'll figure my Artificer/Warlock multiclass build is safe and viable at most tables.
Deals emotional damage..... is shaped like a sledge hammer or wreaking ball. (starts singing really badly)
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Could a Warlock multiclassed with Armorer Artificer with the Dreadnaught armor use Pact of the Blade to make their Force Demolisher their pact weapon?
What is the Force Demolisher?
Can it disappear like a long sword can?
Can it appear like a long sword can?
Maybe. They count as simple melee/ranged weapons. It really comes down to if your DM thinks counts as a weapon is enough to make it a weapon for the feature. And whether its nature of being baked into the armor affects that. My gut feeling is not until you use other artificer abilities to enchant them. As unenchanted weapons get summoned and you can't summon something that is part of the armor, enchanted ones are just bound to you with the pact.
It is a class feature of the armorer subclass for artificer.
"Force Demolisher. An arcane wrecking ball or sledgehammer projects from your armor. The demolisher counts as a Simple Melee weapon with the Reach property, and it deals 1d10 Force damage on a hit. If you hit a creature that is at least one size smaller than you with the demolisher, you can push the creature up to 10 feet straight away from yourself or pull the creature up to 10 feet toward yourself."
It is kind of nebulous... it doesn't say that it cannot be disarmed, so I would say that means it is not physically attached to the armor. It does not say anything about sheathing or hiding the weapon at all. All it says is that it counts as a simple weapon with reach. Both Gemini and ChatGPT say it should work... but I wanted to get a consensus from the community. I'm just brainstorming a character idea and don't have a DM to run it by.
I think the above is the actual point for determining use as a pact weapon. Pact weapon is defined below:
As the weapon is not in one's hand, then the Force Demolisher can't be a pact weapon. This seems not nebulous. Being able to remove the weapon from armor is not relevant. The Force Demolisher would not be conjured into the players hand as it is a weapon used as part of the armor itself.
Interesting...I hate how vague the rules for some of this stuff are nowadays. Do you even need a hand to use the Force Demolisher? Can you use a shield in one hand, a wand of the war mage in the other, and still attack with the force demolisher? Is the Force Demolisher just projected force energy like a Green Lantern construct, or a physical part of the armor? Can you enchant it? Cast spells on it? If it gets disarmed can someone else pick it up and use it...can you hand it to someone else and let them use it? Does it disappear if dropped? So much just left up to DM interpretation.
The Pact weapon does not have to be a conjured weapon.
As I parse that statement, there are two options, and the Force Demolisher could classify under the second, depending on whether or not it classifies as 1) a Magic Weapon 2) that you can touch.. Historically (2014 Sage advice, using the 2014 Pact Boon version of Pact of the Blade) similar phrasing has been used to justify magical Pact Weapons that aren't just melee weapons.
Looking at the Force Demolisher Description from the 2024 Armorer Artificer:
I'd have to say "it probably does, but ask your DM" on both counts.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
The Force Demolisher Description from the 2024 Armorer Artificer should use 2024 Sage Advice. The 2014 Warlock is very different from the 2024 version. As for people using X to justify, well someone can always justify anything, that does not make it correct.
I think your comment about magic is out of context. You cannot conjure a magic weapon out of nothing like you can with a non magical weapon. Therefore you have to find a magic weapon to use. In finding one, you have to touch it and "own" it. Now you can conjure it into your hand. Otherwise any warlock can instantly use a magic weapon. That would be wrong on so many levels.
I don't think you can parse that language either. In fact I believe in determining the weapon "in your hand" is the most important part. But if you want to parse, "count as" is not the same as "being a simple..."
The 2024 Sage Advice Guidance on Pact of the Blade gives the same guidance. The intention is indeed that a 2024 Warlock can burn a Bonus Action and instantly be proficient with a Magic Weapon as long as someone else isn't Pact-bonded or Attuned to it.
2024 Pact of the Blade allows you two options for a Pact Weapon.
And the "in your hand" phrasing only applies to the one you conjured out of nothing. 2024 Pact of the Blade Invocation does not allow you to conjure your Pact Weapon into your hand at all if it it was pre-existing Magic Weapon at all, A feature of the 2014 Pact Boon Pact of the Blade does, but doesn't apply.
"counts as" in the rulebook does mean "is," for the intents and purposes of the rules of the game. If there are exceptions to how a feature interacts with something that "counts as" something else, those exceptions get spelled out.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
So far the consensus seems to be 'yes' it works. I've spoken to a number of people here and elsewhere, and so far only Character77006 has said no. Mechanically it isn't exploiting anything crazy powerful, just letting you switch your attack rolls fron Int to Cha and letting you change the damage type from Force to Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant...which is a minor buff at best, since Force is already one of the least resisted damage types. I'll figure my Artificer/Warlock multiclass build is safe and viable at most tables.
Deals emotional damage..... is shaped like a sledge hammer or wreaking ball. (starts singing really badly)