I agree with those citing Magic Missile's ruling of all bolts landing simultaneously where neither EB or Scorching Ray, for that matter state such. I envision the spell being cast and a ball of energy appearing in the caster's hand. They hurl it at the first target and, when applicable (level up) a second (and third eventually) appear. The caster knows that they must hurl all available bolts within 6 seconds, and can do so one at a time, allowing the first to hit before launching the next. I see no issue with it, mechanically or RaW.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
The casting time is 1 action. The duration is instantaneous. It is logically impossible to be just one action and instantaneous and happening as separate events. The casting time and duration suggest that they all fly at once. The separate rolls for hitting imply that each bolt has an accuracy. If you fired both barrels of a double barreled shotgun with slugs, both slugs would be fired simultaneously and yet each slug would have an individual chance of hitting. Why should it make a difference? Consider this scenario. You attack a monster that has the ability to evade after a hit. If the monster is allowed to evade after the first EB, then any additional EB that were intended for him will miss. However, logic dictates that if you are allowed only 1 action and you use that action to cast an EB, and an EB is instantaneous, additional EBs that are attained through levels HAVE to leave for targets at the same time and thus, targets must be chosen targets must be chosen at the same time. Essentially, the authors are saying that the beams travel at the speed of light (instantaneous or nearly so). Any creature that has the opportunity to evade a second EB would have to have the ability to perceive the attack, formulate a plan, and execute the plan, all FASTER than the speed of light. Conversely, if a fighter had 2 attacks, I believe that the monster could evade the second attack because it's a separate attack that does not occur at the same time as the first attack.
Almost all actions are instantaneous due to this being a turn based game. Whether its shooting arrows, running and jumping or eldritch blast. But if someone is moving and is interrupted by a reaction we dont force them to continue their move as is they can respond to the reaction, if shooting arrows we let them react to fallen enemies. EB is instantaneous in the same way as those actions are, they are entirely resolved on the characters turn. That is all instantaneous means, it doesn't me it literally only lasts a instant as there are effects which are permanent but have a instantaneous duration, its just that the magic behind it is only a instant so it can not be dispelled, countered sure but not dispelled as once its cast the magic is done.
Arrows aren't instantaneous. Running and jumping also takes time. Lightning is instantaneous. Can I cast an EB, move a few feet, and cast a second EB? If I can then it's not instantaneous. If I can't, it is. I wish you'd address the points in my argument instead of just ignoring them and coming up with your own argument. I have logic that needs to be refuted before new logic can be entertained.
Arrows aren't instantaneous. Running and jumping also takes time. Lightning is instantaneous. Can I cast an EB, move a few feet, and cast a second EB? If I can then it's not instantaneous. If I can't, it is. I wish you'd address the points in my argument instead of just ignoring them and coming up with your own argument. I have logic that needs to be refuted before new logic can be entertained.
Show me where you addressed the logic of the double barreled shotgun analogy. The action of pulling the trigger is one action, the projectiles travel instantaneously (or nearly so), and yet each slug has an independent chance of hitting and an independent damage. Please show me where you addressed that.
Man some of you are way to hung up on durations "instantaneous"
Durations refer to spell effects and how long they last. This is why green flame blade has a duration of instantaneous and booming blade has a duration of 1 round. The damage from the hit is calculated the same way, the duration refers to the linger effect on booming blade.
Why do you think an archer has enough time to draw their bow, aim, fire, draw another arrow and repeat, but a caster couldn't do something similar with spells on their turn?
Man some of you are way to hung up on durations "instantaneous"
Durations refer to spell effects and how long they last. This is why green flame blade has a duration of instantaneous and booming blade has a duration of 1 round. The damage from the hit is calculated the same way, the duration refers to the linger effect on booming blade.
Why do you think an archer has enough time to draw their bow, aim, fire, draw another arrow and repeat, but a caster couldn't do something similar with spells on their turn?
That's a good point. I like to imagine traversing 30 ft. over the duration of 6 seconds all while holding my hand out as each blast follows one after the other. That being said, I believe your direct reference to the bow and arrow is different, provided (I think) you must use a separate attack action (or bonus action) for each arrow.
Man some of you are way to hung up on durations "instantaneous"
Durations refer to spell effects and how long they last. This is why green flame blade has a duration of instantaneous and booming blade has a duration of 1 round. The damage from the hit is calculated the same way, the duration refers to the linger effect on booming blade.
Why do you think an archer has enough time to draw their bow, aim, fire, draw another arrow and repeat, but a caster couldn't do something similar with spells on their turn?
That's a good point. I like to imagine traversing 30 ft. over the duration of 6 seconds all while holding my hand out as each blast follows one after the other. That being said, I believe your direct reference to the bow and arrow is different, provided (I think) you must use a separate attack action (or bonus action) for each arrow.
Nope, at level 5 when you get a 2nd attack, 1 attack action gives you multiple shots of a bow. 1 action, no bonus actions.
Man some of you are way to hung up on durations "instantaneous"
Durations refer to spell effects and how long they last. This is why green flame blade has a duration of instantaneous and booming blade has a duration of 1 round. The damage from the hit is calculated the same way, the duration refers to the linger effect on booming blade.
Why do you think an archer has enough time to draw their bow, aim, fire, draw another arrow and repeat, but a caster couldn't do something similar with spells on their turn?
That's a good point. I like to imagine traversing 30 ft. over the duration of 6 seconds all while holding my hand out as each blast follows one after the other. That being said, I believe your dire ct reference to the bow and arrow is different, provided (I think) you must use a separate attack action (or bonus action) for each arrow.
Nope, at level 5 when you get a 2nd attack, 1 attack action gives you multiple shots of a bow. 1 action, no bonus actions.
Yeah, that's right.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Eldritch Blast
cantrip evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Target: A creature within range
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Warlock
A beam of crackling energy streaks toward a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10 force damage. The spell creates more than one beam when you reach higher levels: two beams at 5th level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level. You can direct the beams at the same target or at different ones. Make a separate attack roll for each beam.
There's nothing that states specifically how differently the separate rays work, just that it's a separate attack roll for each. This is the same for Scorching Ray.
So Magic Missile specifically states the following:
Magic Missile
1 evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Target: A creature of your choice that you can see within range
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard
You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the spell creates one more dart for each slot above 1st.
The darts all strike simultaneously, where this is strictly NOT specified under Eldritch Blast or Scorching Ray. However, if you notice, it also has a casting time of instantaneous, which in the PHB states: "Many spells are instantaneous. The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant."
And then we have this, I think the winner of the argument:
Making an Attack
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack.
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Edit: Sorry, for spamming guys. Just walking through my entire process visually for everyone else to see. But it seems as though according to the PHB direct print, you should be allowed to resolve each individual attack roll before moving on to the next one.
Show me where you addressed the logic of the double barreled shotgun analogy. The action of pulling the trigger is one action, the projectiles travel instantaneously (or nearly so), and yet each slug has an independent chance of hitting and an independent damage. Please show me where you addressed that.
If I pulled both triggers at the same time it would be one blast at one target resolved by 2 rolls, if I pulled one trigger than shifted aim and pulled the second trigger it would be 2 separate shots yet both times it is still a double barreled shotgun. I answered that when I described what instantaneous means in the context of D&D. All it means is the entirety of the action takes place and is resolved on your turn. That is it. It is why spells with effects that last forever or can last forever are also instantaneous. What is the duration of power word stun, yet when does the stun effect end, it ends when you eventually make your save which can be never. And yet lasting forever it is still instantaneous. Feeblemind same thing the spell lasts until the target makes their save saving only once a month, and yet even though the effect continues since the magic is now over it can not be dispelled. That is literally the definition of instantaneous.
So you can resolve your shot as firing all shots at one dude, rolling all at once, or rolling one at a time and reacting to each shot and firing it as it is still your action. Either way its still a eldritch blast or a double barreled shotgun in your analogy.
I guess it's how you visualize the cast. I see all bolts leaving the focus at the same time and arriving at the same time. In my mind, you aren't shifting aim with your hand, you are shifting aim with your mind and thus, all bolts hit simultaneously. In the scenario that you present where you shift aim on a secondary bolt, it is a separate event and no matter how fast the bolt is, it can not physically hit a second target at the same time as the first bolt because the two (or more) parts of the spell happened as separate events, i.e. separated by the event of re-aiming. You know those plasma globes with the electricity emanating from a point? To me, that seems to describe the terms of the eldritch blast. There is no tendril that arrives at the surface of the globe quicker than any other tendril and all tendrils originate from the same point and all tendrils are fired at the same time.
But thank you for your civil reply. You've been nicer than me and I apologize.
The thing is, unless youve cut off the head, or stuck a pointy thing in the eye and it comes out the back of the head, you don't necessarily know you killed it right away... and even those assume the head is important... certain barbarians only use their head to grow a beard, after all...
Unless you take time between swings to assess whether a creature is indeed falling over dead, or just staggering under your blow, you cannot tell, and by the time you've made that assessment, your turn is over
Allowing the characters to take the time to choose removes the element of surprise, when they assume that 1 blow will finish off the creature and move on to the next, only to have that first one poke them in the ass for their arrogance
I say make them choose up front, make absolutely sure it's dead, or take a chance
The thing is, unless youve cut off the head, or stuck a pointy thing in the eye and it comes out the back of the head, you don't necessarily know you killed it right away... and even those assume the head is important... certain barbarians only use their head to grow a beard, after all...
Unless you take time between swings to assess whether a creature is indeed falling over dead, or just staggering under your blow, you cannot tell, and by the time you've made that assessment, your turn is over
Allowing the characters to take the time to choose removes the element of surprise, when they assume that 1 blow will finish off the creature and move on to the next, only to have that first one poke them in the ass for their arrogance
I say make them choose up front, make absolutely sure it's dead, or take a chance
Cool do the same thing for all attacks then as there is no reason to do it differently for this power.
Melee attacks are not the same as missile attacks. This is EXACTLY why we have machine guns. Whether you are doing 3 round bursts or going full auto, you are sending in the extra bullets because you aren't sure if the first bullet hit or if it's a kill shot. Further, because you are at a distance, you can't make that quick assessment because you can't see details. Conversely, when you are fighting melee, you will have a very good idea if your first hit is a kill shot.
Melee attacks are not the same as missile attacks. This is EXACTLY why we have machine guns. Whether you are doing 3 round bursts or going full auto, you are sending in the extra bullets because you aren't sure if the first bullet hit or if it's a kill shot. Further, because you are at a distance, you can't make that quick assessment because you can't see details. Conversely, when you are fighting melee, you will have a very good idea if your first hit is a kill shot.
Unless you caved their head in or something similarly dramatic, no you don't know for sure if they are dead or just staggering from a melee hit. Its a arbitrary choice as if my force bolt caves their head in on the first shot I know they are dead as well. You could make some argument at max range you can't tell or something but at 30 feet yeah you can tell.
I prefer the mix of both. You can pick one target, roll to attack and then decide if you want to target same creature or different creature, however, damage isn't calculated for either target until both attack rolls are made. So you can still choose after first roll, but you can't know if you killed the target, you just know you hit it or not and can decide where your 2nd blast will go, meaning both attacks made (wherever they want them to be made) and then both damage is calculated.
That is a fair way to think about it. Though speaking from a player stand point I do appreciate being able to choose a target as soon as the first one dies. I usually end up rolling one at a time and deciding where they go based on whether a target dies or still seems pretty healthy. I can see how this is a bit meta gamey but not entirely game breaking if creatures and npcs do it as well.
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I agree with those citing Magic Missile's ruling of all bolts landing simultaneously where neither EB or Scorching Ray, for that matter state such. I envision the spell being cast and a ball of energy appearing in the caster's hand. They hurl it at the first target and, when applicable (level up) a second (and third eventually) appear. The caster knows that they must hurl all available bolts within 6 seconds, and can do so one at a time, allowing the first to hit before launching the next. I see no issue with it, mechanically or RaW.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Almost all actions are instantaneous due to this being a turn based game. Whether its shooting arrows, running and jumping or eldritch blast. But if someone is moving and is interrupted by a reaction we dont force them to continue their move as is they can respond to the reaction, if shooting arrows we let them react to fallen enemies. EB is instantaneous in the same way as those actions are, they are entirely resolved on the characters turn. That is all instantaneous means, it doesn't me it literally only lasts a instant as there are effects which are permanent but have a instantaneous duration, its just that the magic behind it is only a instant so it can not be dispelled, countered sure but not dispelled as once its cast the magic is done.
Arrows aren't instantaneous. Running and jumping also takes time. Lightning is instantaneous. Can I cast an EB, move a few feet, and cast a second EB? If I can then it's not instantaneous. If I can't, it is. I wish you'd address the points in my argument instead of just ignoring them and coming up with your own argument. I have logic that needs to be refuted before new logic can be entertained.
I did, you just refuse to see it.
Show me where you addressed the logic of the double barreled shotgun analogy. The action of pulling the trigger is one action, the projectiles travel instantaneously (or nearly so), and yet each slug has an independent chance of hitting and an independent damage. Please show me where you addressed that.
Man some of you are way to hung up on durations "instantaneous"
Durations refer to spell effects and how long they last. This is why green flame blade has a duration of instantaneous and booming blade has a duration of 1 round. The damage from the hit is calculated the same way, the duration refers to the linger effect on booming blade.
Why do you think an archer has enough time to draw their bow, aim, fire, draw another arrow and repeat, but a caster couldn't do something similar with spells on their turn?
I appreciate this sentence very much.
That's a good point. I like to imagine traversing 30 ft. over the duration of 6 seconds all while holding my hand out as each blast follows one after the other. That being said, I believe your direct reference to the bow and arrow is different, provided (I think) you must use a separate attack action (or bonus action) for each arrow.
Nope, at level 5 when you get a 2nd attack, 1 attack action gives you multiple shots of a bow. 1 action, no bonus actions.
Yeah, that's right.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Eldritch Blast
The spell creates more than one beam when you reach higher levels: two beams at 5th level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level. You can direct the beams at the same target or at different ones. Make a separate attack roll for each beam.
There's nothing that states specifically how differently the separate rays work, just that it's a separate attack roll for each. This is the same for Scorching Ray.
So Magic Missile specifically states the following:
Magic Missile
The darts all strike simultaneously, where this is strictly NOT specified under Eldritch Blast or Scorching Ray. However, if you notice, it also has a casting time of instantaneous, which in the PHB states: "Many spells are instantaneous. The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant."
And then we have this, I think the winner of the argument:
Making an Attack
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack.
- - - - -
Edit: Sorry, for spamming guys. Just walking through my entire process visually for everyone else to see. But it seems as though according to the PHB direct print, you should be allowed to resolve each individual attack roll before moving on to the next one.
If I pulled both triggers at the same time it would be one blast at one target resolved by 2 rolls, if I pulled one trigger than shifted aim and pulled the second trigger it would be 2 separate shots yet both times it is still a double barreled shotgun. I answered that when I described what instantaneous means in the context of D&D. All it means is the entirety of the action takes place and is resolved on your turn. That is it. It is why spells with effects that last forever or can last forever are also instantaneous. What is the duration of power word stun, yet when does the stun effect end, it ends when you eventually make your save which can be never. And yet lasting forever it is still instantaneous. Feeblemind same thing the spell lasts until the target makes their save saving only once a month, and yet even though the effect continues since the magic is now over it can not be dispelled. That is literally the definition of instantaneous.
So you can resolve your shot as firing all shots at one dude, rolling all at once, or rolling one at a time and reacting to each shot and firing it as it is still your action. Either way its still a eldritch blast or a double barreled shotgun in your analogy.
I guess it's how you visualize the cast. I see all bolts leaving the focus at the same time and arriving at the same time. In my mind, you aren't shifting aim with your hand, you are shifting aim with your mind and thus, all bolts hit simultaneously. In the scenario that you present where you shift aim on a secondary bolt, it is a separate event and no matter how fast the bolt is, it can not physically hit a second target at the same time as the first bolt because the two (or more) parts of the spell happened as separate events, i.e. separated by the event of re-aiming. You know those plasma globes with the electricity emanating from a point? To me, that seems to describe the terms of the eldritch blast. There is no tendril that arrives at the surface of the globe quicker than any other tendril and all tendrils originate from the same point and all tendrils are fired at the same time.
But thank you for your civil reply. You've been nicer than me and I apologize.
whats the spell
The thing is, unless youve cut off the head, or stuck a pointy thing in the eye and it comes out the back of the head, you don't necessarily know you killed it right away... and even those assume the head is important... certain barbarians only use their head to grow a beard, after all...
Unless you take time between swings to assess whether a creature is indeed falling over dead, or just staggering under your blow, you cannot tell, and by the time you've made that assessment, your turn is over
Allowing the characters to take the time to choose removes the element of surprise, when they assume that 1 blow will finish off the creature and move on to the next, only to have that first one poke them in the ass for their arrogance
I say make them choose up front, make absolutely sure it's dead, or take a chance
Cool do the same thing for all attacks then as there is no reason to do it differently for this power.
Melee attacks are not the same as missile attacks. This is EXACTLY why we have machine guns. Whether you are doing 3 round bursts or going full auto, you are sending in the extra bullets because you aren't sure if the first bullet hit or if it's a kill shot. Further, because you are at a distance, you can't make that quick assessment because you can't see details. Conversely, when you are fighting melee, you will have a very good idea if your first hit is a kill shot.
Unless you caved their head in or something similarly dramatic, no you don't know for sure if they are dead or just staggering from a melee hit. Its a arbitrary choice as if my force bolt caves their head in on the first shot I know they are dead as well. You could make some argument at max range you can't tell or something but at 30 feet yeah you can tell.
I prefer the mix of both. You can pick one target, roll to attack and then decide if you want to target same creature or different creature, however, damage isn't calculated for either target until both attack rolls are made. So you can still choose after first roll, but you can't know if you killed the target, you just know you hit it or not and can decide where your 2nd blast will go, meaning both attacks made (wherever they want them to be made) and then both damage is calculated.
Just my preference.
That is a fair way to think about it. Though speaking from a player stand point I do appreciate being able to choose a target as soon as the first one dies. I usually end up rolling one at a time and deciding where they go based on whether a target dies or still seems pretty healthy. I can see how this is a bit meta gamey but not entirely game breaking if creatures and npcs do it as well.