Here is a Spreadsheet that I made of all damaging spells from the Player's Handbook for Wizards
I calculated average damage of the spell from level 1 to 5, including using higher level spell slots (up to level 5), to determine the highest damage to one target, one time. Please note that all spells have varying effects that may add to the effectiveness of the spell.
Assumptions:
* Average Damage (i.e. 1d8 average is 4.5.
* One target hit. In instances where the spell may have multipe hits, I assume all hits are to one target.
* Assumed you hit and they did NOT save (i.e. resist or half damage, etc).
Not that wizards get it at default, but feats/multi classing etc spells like hex/hunters mark work really well with scorching ray. At 5th level its average damage would be 63.
Ya scorching ray is a great spell; especially if you use awakened spellbook to change the damage type as needed. @9th level, if you choose to use it that high, it would be 10 rays doing 2d6 (20d6) damage. Not too bad at all. Imagine if you crit or even changed it to lightning with the Tempest Cleric's Channel Divinity and made it max damage (120 base). Obviosuly, there are better options, but if its evening and your'e about to long rest, why not :D
You could probably corner case it like when fighting a BBEG with vulnerability to lightning, but otherwise there are much better uses for a 9th level spell slot.
One of the problems with this analysis is that it ignores the differences between save for half, save for no damage, and attack spells, when in reality they don't behave the same way at all. If we assume a target has a +11 to all relevant saves and is AC 19 vs. a wizard with a spell attack modifier of +11, for example, which is an assumption reasonably close to the CR table's assumptions about target durability for a wizard capable of level 9 spells, this comes out:
In general, a spell that lets the target save for half actually deals (average damage)/2-1/4 on average, due to successful saves rounding down when halving an odd amount of damage.
Under the above assumption, saving for half damage means .65*(reduced damage)+.35*full damage), which comes out to, for average damage x, (54x-13)/80, or .675x-.1625, as you like.
Note that this assumption is particularly faulty both because it ignores Dexterity saves having to deal with cover and because it ignores real-world values for target saves, which are generally biased more towards some saves than others (Con saves are often very high, Int saves much less so). You can re-do the math for any assumption you want about how saves work, provided you're explicit and consistent. In that vein, this assumption is a reasonable measure of "worst-case" damage for save-resisted damage spells.
Meanwhile, for an attack, average damage varies based on dice vs. constants. For the spells listed above, there aren't any constants, so for average damage x, you'll deal, under these assumptions, .7x damage, on average (a .6 chance of dealing x damage and a .05 chance of dealing 2x damage).
Finally, for auto-damage, you simply deal x.
That gets us the following "champions" for single-target damage (since I haven't included any assumptions for multiple targets based on AOE size), measured at spell level 5, for each of the spell levels above, ignoring the ability of spells to deal damage multiple times (which is why Cloud of Daggers doesn't win SL 2):
Magic Missile: 24.5 Force
Scorching Ray: 29.4 Fire
Lightning Bolt: 23.4625 Lightning
This was chosen over Fireball because Fire resistance/immunity/absorption is much more common than for Lightning; Vampiric Touch, which is incorrectly listed as Auto in OP's spreadsheet and is instead attack-based, deals a net 18.2125 damage at this level if you equate healing taken with damage dealt.
Blight: 27.175
As for all spells, we are assuming a target with no particular type.
Cone of Cold: 24.1375 Cold
This is because OP incorrectly ignored Animate Objects, which, assuming a bag of ball bearings, deals 35 damage under the above assumptions. Note that because each of the 10 ball bearings RAW has its own turn and may roll initiative higher than the caster's, which will result in the animated ball bearing losing a turn, our assumptions about when the damage is dealt are particularly faulty here compared to tabletop performance. Note also that the bearings are killable and can die before their turn occurs.
As for 9th-level spells, Meteor Swarm should outperform Scorching Ray in virtually every conceivable circumstance.
As for 9th-level spells, Meteor Swarm should outperform Scorching Ray in virtually every conceivable circumstance.
(WARNING-meteor swarm rave ahead)
Meteor swarm outperforms ANY spell when it comes to damage
this spell is so OP it’s absurd, 4 meteors that cover 8/8 squares that all deal 20d6 fire damage AND 20d6 bludgeoning damage. That’s 40d6 damage to up to 258 targets (correct my math if it’s wrong). That actually makes me laugh when I think of that, for 3 reasons
1)you can attack 258 targets(assuming they’re medium)?!?!??!?!!!!?!? That’s literally an ARMY of orcs/hobgoblins wasted
2) 40d6 damage?!?!?!? That means at absolute MINIMUM (assuming that you roll only 1s, they have resistance to both damage types, and they succeeded on the saving throw) you STILL deal 10 damage(which is pitiful for a 9th level spell granted, but to 258 targets?). But at MOST (if they’re vulnerable to both damage types) is 480 damage. No you’re not reading wrong, that’s 480 damage!!!!! And even without vulnerability you’re gonna deal an average of 160-200 damage!!!!!!!! That’s unbelievable
3) this is the funniest part to me, you can do all this with 0 material components…ZERO COMPONENTS. A 17th level wizard could roll up on a literal ARMY, say a couple words and do a couple hand gestures, then BOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!! WASTED. All in all the only other spell that can even COMPETE with meteor swarm is the Wish spell. Thank you for your time, METEOR SWARM FOREVER!!!!!!
Need massive damage over a large area: Tsunami (not as good as Meteor Swarm but overall if you're fighting that army, it works), Symbol ( a really good spell with lots of options that no-one casts because it takes a minutes and has some odd requirements - unless you wish. Need another front line fighter or want to almost double your spell slots Simulacrum.
And every other spell on every list of 8th level or lower. Although if you drop below a 7th level spell you're really wasting that 9th level spell slot.
Need massive damage over a large area: Tsunami (not as good as Meteor Swarm but overall if you're fighting that army, it works), Symbol ( a really good spell with lots of options that no-one casts because it takes a minutes and has some odd requirements - unless you wish. Need another front line fighter or want to almost double your spell slots Simulacrum.
And every other spell on every list of 8th level or lower. Although if you drop below a 7th level spell you're really wasting that 9th level spell slot.
I agree that wish is the best spell, but meteor storm is a close 2nd or 3rd. true polymorph is amazing as long as you’re level 20, because then you can transform one of your teammates into an ancient dragon, but depending on situation you might wanna use a single powerful attack over buffing one of your teammates
Need massive damage over a large area: Tsunami (not as good as Meteor Swarm but overall if you're fighting that army, it works), Symbol ( a really good spell with lots of options that no-one casts because it takes a minutes and has some odd requirements - unless you wish. Need another front line fighter or want to almost double your spell slots Simulacrum.
And every other spell on every list of 8th level or lower. Although if you drop below a 7th level spell you're really wasting that 9th level spell slot.
I agree that wish is the best spell, but meteor storm is a close 2nd or 3rd. true polymorph is amazing as long as you’re level 20, because then you can transform one of your teammates into an ancient dragon, but depending on situation you might wanna use a single powerful attack over buffing one of your teammates
Adult red or gold dragon is pretty dang solid and a better choice than meteor swarm, which is why true polymorph and shape change are just better than meteor swarm, but so is Foresight, invulnerability, heck I'd even put psychic scream and mass polymorph over meteor swarm.
140 damage is a lot of damage sure, but most fights where I am pulling out my 9th level spell I'd rather have them take 49 and be stunned round after round. Or have most of them be sheep so we can focus them down one at a time. And if its just damage as the concern adult reds are doing 63 on a breath attack and it recharges, one recharge and you have basically matched the meteor swarms damage, meanwhile that dude has a crap ton of HP, a good AC etc. If you only have one fight and they get wiped out by that one spell hey great. Otherwise I'll go with turning someone into a dragon for a hour, or have advantage on all rolls while granting disadvantage on attack rolls against me for the day etc.
Need massive damage over a large area: Tsunami (not as good as Meteor Swarm but overall if you're fighting that army, it works), Symbol ( a really good spell with lots of options that no-one casts because it takes a minutes and has some odd requirements - unless you wish. Need another front line fighter or want to almost double your spell slots Simulacrum.
And every other spell on every list of 8th level or lower. Although if you drop below a 7th level spell you're really wasting that 9th level spell slot.
I agree that wish is the best spell, but meteor storm is a close 2nd or 3rd. true polymorph is amazing as long as you’re level 20, because then you can transform one of your teammates into an ancient dragon, but depending on situation you might wanna use a single powerful attack over buffing one of your teammates
Adult red or gold dragon is pretty dang solid and a better choice than meteor swarm, which is why true polymorph and shape change are just better than meteor swarm, but so is Foresight, invulnerability, heck I'd even put psychic scream and mass polymorph over meteor swarm.
140 damage is a lot of damage sure, but most fights where I am pulling out my 9th level spell I'd rather have them take 49 and be stunned round after round. Or have most of them be sheep so we can focus them down one at a time. And if its just damage as the concern adult reds are doing 63 on a breath attack and it recharges, one recharge and you have basically matched the meteor swarms damage, meanwhile that dude has a crap ton of HP, a good AC etc. If you only have one fight and they get wiped out by that one spell hey great. Otherwise I'll go with turning someone into a dragon for a hour, or have advantage on all rolls while granting disadvantage on attack rolls against me for the day etc.
Once again I think the biggest thing is personal preference, but I think meteor swarm is amazing because you can end all but the toughest fights in a single move. For example let’s say you’re battling an ancient red dragon(or any ancient dragon really) you could use true polymorph/shapechange to turn one of your teammates into an adult red dragon, but then they’re gonna get shredded by the bigger dragon (assuming your DM would make it target another dragon). While by using meteor swarm you can take the dragon to half health and kill any minions they might have. Granted some situations you’re gonna want to have a longer effect, for example if you’re going through a dungeon with a ton of rooms, you’ll want to have something that’s gonna effectively clear pretty much every room, and that’s when true polymorph/shapechange is gonna be very useful, but I think that being able to clear a super tough encounter with practically a single move is more useful, but once again the biggest thing is personal preference.
I played an evoker to 20th and the only two 9th level spells I ever used were Meteor Swarm and Wish.
I'll say it is very impressive when you drop a Meteor Swarm on the party and they all stand around taking no damage while the bad guys get pummeled for 20d6 + 20d6.
However, Wish was much more useful overall as I did every one of the things I mentioned in my earlier post and still had a list for other situations where it would have been good to have a 7th or 8th level cleric or druid spell.
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Here is a Spreadsheet that I made of all damaging spells from the Player's Handbook for Wizards
I calculated average damage of the spell from level 1 to 5, including using higher level spell slots (up to level 5), to determine the highest damage to one target, one time. Please note that all spells have varying effects that may add to the effectiveness of the spell.
Assumptions:
* Average Damage (i.e. 1d8 average is 4.5.
* One target hit. In instances where the spell may have multipe hits, I assume all hits are to one target.
* Assumed you hit and they did NOT save (i.e. resist or half damage, etc).
Comments Welcome. :)
Not that wizards get it at default, but feats/multi classing etc spells like hex/hunters mark work really well with scorching ray. At 5th level its average damage would be 63.
Ya scorching ray is a great spell; especially if you use awakened spellbook to change the damage type as needed. @9th level, if you choose to use it that high, it would be 10 rays doing 2d6 (20d6) damage. Not too bad at all. Imagine if you crit or even changed it to lightning with the Tempest Cleric's Channel Divinity and made it max damage (120 base). Obviosuly, there are better options, but if its evening and your'e about to long rest, why not :D
You could probably corner case it like when fighting a BBEG with vulnerability to lightning, but otherwise there are much better uses for a 9th level spell slot.
One of the problems with this analysis is that it ignores the differences between save for half, save for no damage, and attack spells, when in reality they don't behave the same way at all. If we assume a target has a +11 to all relevant saves and is AC 19 vs. a wizard with a spell attack modifier of +11, for example, which is an assumption reasonably close to the CR table's assumptions about target durability for a wizard capable of level 9 spells, this comes out:
That gets us the following "champions" for single-target damage (since I haven't included any assumptions for multiple targets based on AOE size), measured at spell level 5, for each of the spell levels above, ignoring the ability of spells to deal damage multiple times (which is why Cloud of Daggers doesn't win SL 2):
As for 9th-level spells, Meteor Swarm should outperform Scorching Ray in virtually every conceivable circumstance.
(WARNING-meteor swarm rave ahead)
Meteor swarm outperforms ANY spell when it comes to damage
this spell is so OP it’s absurd, 4 meteors that cover 8/8 squares that all deal 20d6 fire damage AND 20d6 bludgeoning damage. That’s 40d6 damage to up to 258 targets (correct my math if it’s wrong). That actually makes me laugh when I think of that, for 3 reasons
1)you can attack 258 targets(assuming they’re medium)?!?!??!?!!!!?!? That’s literally an ARMY of orcs/hobgoblins wasted
2) 40d6 damage?!?!?!? That means at absolute MINIMUM (assuming that you roll only 1s, they have resistance to both damage types, and they succeeded on the saving throw) you STILL deal 10 damage(which is pitiful for a 9th level spell granted, but to 258 targets?). But at MOST (if they’re vulnerable to both damage types) is 480 damage. No you’re not reading wrong, that’s 480 damage!!!!! And even without vulnerability you’re gonna deal an average of 160-200 damage!!!!!!!! That’s unbelievable
3) this is the funniest part to me, you can do all this with 0 material components…ZERO COMPONENTS. A 17th level wizard could roll up on a literal ARMY, say a couple words and do a couple hand gestures, then BOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!! WASTED.
All in all the only other spell that can even COMPETE with meteor swarm is the Wish spell. Thank you for your time, METEOR SWARM FOREVER!!!!!!
And yet meteor swarm is still like option 8 on the 9th level spell list.
What do you mean?
I mean its almost never prepped or cast at those levels. Wish, true polymorph, shape change etc are all better options./
I’d take meteor swarm over a shapeshift spell, as I’ve always found it more useful. But I guess In the end it falls on personal preference
Wish is the best if you're wanting versatile.
Need massive damage over a large area: Tsunami (not as good as Meteor Swarm but overall if you're fighting that army, it works), Symbol ( a really good spell with lots of options that no-one casts because it takes a minutes and has some odd requirements - unless you wish. Need another front line fighter or want to almost double your spell slots Simulacrum.
And every other spell on every list of 8th level or lower. Although if you drop below a 7th level spell you're really wasting that 9th level spell slot.
I agree that wish is the best spell, but meteor storm is a close 2nd or 3rd. true polymorph is amazing as long as you’re level 20, because then you can transform one of your teammates into an ancient dragon, but depending on situation you might wanna use a single powerful attack over buffing one of your teammates
Adult red or gold dragon is pretty dang solid and a better choice than meteor swarm, which is why true polymorph and shape change are just better than meteor swarm, but so is Foresight, invulnerability, heck I'd even put psychic scream and mass polymorph over meteor swarm.
140 damage is a lot of damage sure, but most fights where I am pulling out my 9th level spell I'd rather have them take 49 and be stunned round after round. Or have most of them be sheep so we can focus them down one at a time. And if its just damage as the concern adult reds are doing 63 on a breath attack and it recharges, one recharge and you have basically matched the meteor swarms damage, meanwhile that dude has a crap ton of HP, a good AC etc. If you only have one fight and they get wiped out by that one spell hey great. Otherwise I'll go with turning someone into a dragon for a hour, or have advantage on all rolls while granting disadvantage on attack rolls against me for the day etc.
Once again I think the biggest thing is personal preference, but I think meteor swarm is amazing because you can end all but the toughest fights in a single move. For example let’s say you’re battling an ancient red dragon(or any ancient dragon really) you could use true polymorph/shapechange to turn one of your teammates into an adult red dragon, but then they’re gonna get shredded by the bigger dragon (assuming your DM would make it target another dragon). While by using meteor swarm you can take the dragon to half health and kill any minions they might have. Granted some situations you’re gonna want to have a longer effect, for example if you’re going through a dungeon with a ton of rooms, you’ll want to have something that’s gonna effectively clear pretty much every room, and that’s when true polymorph/shapechange is gonna be very useful, but I think that being able to clear a super tough encounter with practically a single move is more useful, but once again the biggest thing is personal preference.
I played an evoker to 20th and the only two 9th level spells I ever used were Meteor Swarm and Wish.
I'll say it is very impressive when you drop a Meteor Swarm on the party and they all stand around taking no damage while the bad guys get pummeled for 20d6 + 20d6.
However, Wish was much more useful overall as I did every one of the things I mentioned in my earlier post and still had a list for other situations where it would have been good to have a 7th or 8th level cleric or druid spell.