Is it bad that my read of this is 'wizards are no longer stupidly overpowered game-breaking uber-demigods that make the DM want to pull his hair out and kill himself by putting dice in his nostrils and inhaling, and that makes me all pouty'? I swear I've heard all of these 'arguments' when a character in an MMO or team shooter gets nerfed.
Well said. Full spell casters got many needed nerfs in 5e and the majority of arguments are simple belly aching about no longer being able to break the game. The rest seem to be from folks that don't fully understand the rules.
As an example, if a fighter attacks and then casts a cantrip but the party mage only casts a cantrip it feels like the person who specializes in magic is getting kind of messed over. Another example is fireball; I have heard players complain that feel like a one-trick pony when it comes to damage dealing for AoE type spells. Another complaint I have heard (and I share myself) is the removal of the summon monster spells for the conjuration school; conjurors feel under powered now.
This is proving much of my point. Once you get above 5th level or so a wizard should only be casting a cantrip in extreme circumstances or if greater magic is simply not needed. At that level fireball is indeed a highly useful spell but spells such as hypnotic pattern and cone of cold out shine it as a control spell as levels increase. And the conjuration school is easily overlooked but can be pretty mighty. Consider the spell conjure minor elementals. It might seem weak at first but give the mephits a read. Most of them have a 2d6 breath weapon, explode on death for another 2d6 and they fly. A 5th level spell slot can summon eight magma mephits for 16d6 damage and then they can continue to fight by casting heat metal and finally dealing another 16d6 as they die off. A 10th level conjurer can't have his concentration broken and at 14th level each mephit will have over 50 hp so they will be sticking around for a while.
Other things wizards can do is plane shift the BBEG to the plane of fire. Or forcecage the BBEG minions for no save. All this before talking about what a wizard can do with the right magic staff and a few scrolls. When people start talking about how much damage a wizard can do they either do not fully understand how wizards work or they have never played a wizard above 7th level. In every edition of D&D wizards have started out a bit weak and finished strong and 5E is no exception. Are wizard's worth it? Dang straight they are. Few classes could handle an entire encounter by themselves like a well prepared wizard.
Once you get above 5th level or so a wizard should only be casting a cantrip in extreme circumstances or if greater magic is simply not needed. At that level fireball is indeed a highly useful spell but spells such as hypnotic pattern and cone of cold out shine it as a control spell as levels increase. And the conjuration school is easily overlooked but can be pretty mighty. Consider the spell conjure minor elementals. It might seem weak at first but give the mephits a read. Most of them have a 2d6 breath weapon, explode on death for another 2d6 and they fly. A 5th level spell slot can summon eight magma mephits for 16d6 damage and then they can continue to fight by casting heat metal and finally dealing another 16d6 as they die off. A 10th level conjurer can't have his concentration broken and at 14th level each mephit will have over 50 hp so they will be sticking around for a while.
Other things wizards can do is plane shift the BBEG to the plane of fire. Or forcecage the BBEG minions for no save. All this before talking about what a wizard can do with the right magic staff and a few scrolls. When people start talking about how much damage a wizard can do they either do not fully understand how wizards work or they have never played a wizard above 7th level. In every edition of D&D wizards have started out a bit weak and finished strong and 5E is no exception. Are wizard's worth it? Dang straight they are. Few classes could handle an entire encounter by themselves like a well prepared wizard.
You make very good points here however, this is all dependent upon the caster having available spell slots, and unfortunately many parties with melee/ranged/mundane characters only take rests when they need to heal. Thus, after a couple big fights the caster is rendered nearly useless as they have likely expended most/all of their spell slots. Granted, around 8th/10th level they have plenty of spell slots but prior to that they often have to rely on cantrips. I totally agree with the idea of nerfing the higher level spells as in prior editions the casters certainly could "brake the game." I simply feel, as do some of my players, that most of the classes "feel" homogenized such that most classes can do most things.
Personally, I miss the old ideas of:
Need something ID'd? Find a mage (broad term).
Need a spell scroll crafted? Find a mage.
Want to enchant your gear? Find a mage. I think you see my patern here; magic casting only/primarily classes just don't "feel" special anymore. Part of the early game trade off of low HP/AC was the usefulness a magic wielder brings to a party (both in and out of combat).
Since the entire reason we play is to have fun, if either the DM or the players aren't having fun (for whatever reason) then they will stop playing. For me, magic wielders just don't feel special anymore and thus I tend to play a different class since you can easily have a successful party without a magic specialist.
You make very good points here however, this is all dependent upon the caster having available spell slots, and unfortunately many parties with melee/ranged/mundane characters only take rests when they need to heal. Thus, after a couple big fights the caster is rendered nearly useless as they have likely expended most/all of their spell slots. Granted, around 8th/10th level they have plenty of spell slots but prior to that they often have to rely on cantrips. I totally agree with the idea of nerfing the higher level spells as in prior editions the casters certainly could "brake the game." I simply feel, as do some of my players, that most of the classes "feel" homogenized such that most classes can do most things.
Well, Wizards in 5e DO get arcane recovery with a short rest starting at ummm, 1st level. 1st level! Also cantrips now scale with character level, so they retain some use in high tiers of play.
A lot of people who complain about Wizards in 5e also seem to neglect mentioning that Wizards now get to cast any spell from a prepared list. No more strict Vancian magic-spell slot restrictions! How many people would say that makes Wizards less fun to play? Seriously, I understand people who have complaints about the Sorcerer base class b/c this was one of their signature benefits compared to the Wizard in previous editions. If anything, they're the ones who lost serious mojo relative to other casters, not the Wizards.
Quote from Torrack>>Want to enchant your gear? Find a mage. I think you see my patern here; magic casting only/primarily classes just don't "feel" special anymore. Part of the early game trade off of low HP/AC was the usefulness a magic wielder brings to a party (both in and out of combat).
Since the entire reason we play is to have fun, if either the DM or the players aren't having fun (for whatever reason) then they will stop playing. For me, magic wielders just don't feel special anymore and thus I tend to play a different class since you can easily have a successful party without a magic specialist.
This is an interesting argument because it could be argued the other way very easily - that choosing a melee class that is only good for "hitting enemy with stick" was unnecessarily restrictive and therefore not much fun for many players when, next to them, another player's character was able to do almost everything single-handedly. What then, would be the point of table top roleplaying for anybody who was not playing a Wizard? So yes, 5th edition changed the rules to make full casters, including Wizards, more balanced. And yes, that balance inevitably means that no one class gets to shine 90% of the time at high levels of play while other classes are left to just pick off minions.
Game balance encourages cooperative play. It encourages people to get along with each other. Maybe you don't enjoy that, but if 5th edition can, at the very least, nudge some barely social people into finding ways to work together in a fictional setting on a weekly basis, then I feel good about it because we are living in some divisive, rancorous times and part of that divisiveness comes from people having gotten used to Not interacting, Not listening, and Not cooperating with each other. This was one of the pitfalls that 3.5 and much of our video game-centric approach to RPGs in the early 2000s fell into. I am glad WotC has done something to fix this by introducing and helping to popularize a game system where no one character can be expected to - or be very successful in attempting to - do everything alone.
Want to enchant your gear? Find a mage. I think you see my patern here; magic casting only/primarily classes just don't "feel" special anymore. Part of the early game trade off of low HP/AC was the usefulness a magic wielder brings to a party (both in and out of combat).
Yah, I admit that although I much prefer 5e's Wizard to older editions', I do miss the "craft scroll", "craft magic item", etc. abilities. I mean, they're still there, it's just that now just about everybody can do it, it's very expensive, and it takes a lot of (down)time to do. Before, making scrolls was something every Magic-user did, for versatility. Now, well, I have a level 9 Wizard who's never made a single scroll, and probably never will, sadly, although I want to, for both practical and flavor reasons (c'mon, I'm rarely, if ever, going to prepare Spider Climb... but I badly want it on a scroll, in case I need it!).
I don't miss having to use Identify on all magic items, but there are two reasons for that: 1) we still mostly do it, since it's faster/more efficient, 2) it's a QoL improvement not to need a Wizard/Bard to identify magic items.
Is it bad that my read of this is 'wizards are no longer stupidly overpowered game-breaking uber-demigods that make the DM want to pull his hair out and kill himself by putting dice in his nostrils and inhaling, and that makes me all pouty'? I swear I've heard all of these 'arguments' when a character in an MMO or team shooter gets nerfed.
If not for the implicit assumption that the DM is a man, I agree with this very much. So many people just can't adjust themselves to the idea that their particular favorite class is no longer completely OP at high levels.
Yah, I admit that although I much prefer 5e's Wizard to older editions', I do miss the "craft scroll", "craft magic item", etc. abilities. I mean, they're still there, it's just that now just about everybody can do it, it's very expensive, and it takes a lot of (down)time to do. Before, making scrolls was something every Magic-user did, for versatility. Now, well, I have a level 9 Wizard who's never made a single scroll, and probably never will, sadly, although I want to, for both practical and flavor reasons (c'mon, I'm rarely, if ever, going to prepare Spider Climb... but I badly want it on a scroll, in case I need it!).
I'm curious what prevents you from making a scroll now. Is it just too much gold? And which sets of rules is your DM using, the one in the DMG or in Xanathar's?
Yah, I admit that although I much prefer 5e's Wizard to older editions', I do miss the "craft scroll", "craft magic item", etc. abilities. I mean, they're still there, it's just that now just about everybody can do it, it's very expensive, and it takes a lot of (down)time to do. Before, making scrolls was something every Magic-user did, for versatility. Now, well, I have a level 9 Wizard who's never made a single scroll, and probably never will, sadly, although I want to, for both practical and flavor reasons (c'mon, I'm rarely, if ever, going to prepare Spider Climb... but I badly want it on a scroll, in case I need it!).
I'm curious what prevents you from making a scroll now. Is it just too much gold? And which sets of rules is your DM using, the one in the DMG or in Xanathar's?
Time, and gold, yeah. It's not that I can't, it's that it's too much of a hassle. We're not using either, since we haven't created any magic items yet, but we'd use the ones in XgtE, probably.
Wizards may seem lacklustre at lower levels, compared to their closest rivals the sorcerer whose sorcery points and metamagic allow them to shine in a pre-chosen method of their choosing. In exchange they always have any ritual spells known 'prepared' for ritual casts. Its not exciting but its a toolbox of useful +1, especially later.
The wizard is at this time reliant on a subclass to differentiate them. Depending on the subclass this might never happen. Some subclasses are monsters though, becoming swiftly encounter breaking.
At 5th level the wizards rituals may include waterbreathing and leomunds tiny hut. Both of these are life saving and wont prevent you from preparing another 5+int mod spells per day.
In summation 5e casters have fewer spell slots than 1st 2nd or 3rd edition, spell expenditure should be something carefully weighed up. If this detracts from your ability to enjoy the wizard then please enjoy playing another class. Personally I do feel a wizard is worth playing in 5e, but not if the party cant hold enemies away from you. Pyjamas do not make good armour and each and every one of the few spell slots you have to use to defend yourself ablates your ability to assist the party.
As I am currently playing as a 14th level Wizard and I can honestly say that I make my DM insane. A well prepared Wizard is a game breaker if played with finess and forethought. Offensive spells are great but the ability to buff the party into an unstoppable unit able to face almost any obstacle is where the game balance gets out of whack. Being able to cast spells as rituals like Tiny Hut so the party can rest and not use spell slots is a huge game changer. Also casting cantrips that scale so you are never without an offensive spell adds to the Wizards versatility. Wizards have always been squishy at low levels but a high level Wizard is a power to be mindful of.
Want to enchant your gear? Find a mage. I think you see my patern here; magic casting only/primarily classes just don't "feel" special anymore. Part of the early game trade off of low HP/AC was the usefulness a magic wielder brings to a party (both in and out of combat).
Personally, the limits of the identification and creation of magic items back in previous editions always made my suspension of disbelief itch. So you never thought to yourself 'where are all these primary spellcasters making all this stuff?' Surely you have played in games where the PC's have a variety of magic items just sitting around. Some of the early edition modules had so many magic items the players would be positively leaden at the end. It's this push and pull of trying to artificially make magic items seem special when they are not. Not in the basic level of D&D anyway.
I wonder at your claim that identifying and creating magic items made spellcasters 'special'. The ability to cast fly, cone of cold, teleport or wish isn't special enough? In earlier editions some races could not be wizards. You never wondered how all those cool dwarven magic items came to be? Apparently 1st or 2nd edition dwarves were special without being wizards.
To me it makes sense to spread out the ability to identify or create magic items. This way every town doesn't have to have a group of wizards or clerics making healing potions, scrolls and other magic items for the PC's to buy. And I don't have to explain why that group doesn't rush off and solve the local goblin problem. Now the PC's are the ones who are special and have to go do that. Maybe making magic items isn't that special but what is special is what the PC wizard can do instead.
Personally, I feel the core wizard sub-classes in the PHB are extremely lacking when compared to the sub-classes of other classes. I look at them and feel completely uninspired or uninterested in what they bring to the main class. Maybe one or two of them seem to have a couple useful abilities, but that's really it. Then you see the bladesinger from Sword coast legends, and it blows away all the other wizard sub-classes. I think all the wizard sub-classes should be re-worked to make them worthwhile.
Other than that, my biggest complaint about spell casters and spells in general is how many spells require concentration. It's absurd. One of my greatest joys with playing any kind of spell caster in previous editions was how creative I could be with combining spells to create new effects/circumstances or being able to combine certain buffs or debuffs for a unique situation. You can no longer do that in 5th edition unless you homebrew an alternate way to handle concentration, which is what I do. The concentration mechanic hamstrings spell casters too severely IMO.
Personally, I feel the core wizard sub-classes in the PHB are extremely lacking when compared to the sub-classes of other classes. I look at them and feel completely uninspired or uninterested in what they bring to the main class. Maybe one or two of them seem to have a couple useful abilities, but that's really it. Then you see the bladesinger from Sword coast legends, and it blows away all the other wizard sub-classes. I think all the wizard sub-classes should be re-worked to make them worthwhile.
While I'm not gonna flat-out disagree with you here, you do have to take into consideration the fact that the core Wizard class already has a lot of features, which are naturally retained by the sub-classes. So Wizard sub-classes, when examined out of context, will look "plainer" than other classes' sub-classes. Bladesinger drastically changes a Wizard's gameplay, so the difference is more obviously dramatic. This is not common in other classes, though (Warlock stands out as an exception).
Other than that, my biggest complaint about spell casters and spells in general is how many spells require concentration. It's absurd. One of my greatest joys with playing any kind of spell caster in previous editions was how creative I could be with combining spells to create new effects/circumstances or being able to combine certain buffs or debuffs for a unique situation. You can no longer do that in 5th edition unless you homebrew an alternate way to handle concentration, which is what I do. The concentration mechanic hamstrings spell casters too severely IMO.
I disagree. You'll feel that way if you're comparing it to previous editions, but examined in context, you'll notice some of those effects are more powerful, some combinations would be overpowered, and some spells that feel like they obviously should be Concentration spells are not, in fact (e.g. Mirror Image). The Concentration mechanic certainly limits spellcasters, but I disagree that it "hamstrings spell casters too severely". Some spells/combinations, maybe, but not overall.
In short the problem was the old wizard, who was better than pretty much everyone at everything. Now they are balanced and fine. The best class at versatility, powerful but not best at anything anything else than versatility.
concentration was added for that very purpose - to allow powerful spells in the game while preventing über-buffing before critical fights, which was the norm back in the day.
in actual gameplay Wizards play a lot more logically now. They need henchmen around them for protection.
A wizard is the most powerful spellcaster in the game, at least when it comes to spells. Every weakness of the wizard can be undone by spells. The fact that it does not get too many class features (besides subclass features) ignores the fact that they are gaining at minimum, two spells per level from the best spell list in the game, and also have the ability to conceivably gain all of them, if the dm allows it. No armor proficiencies? Mage armor. No weapon proficiencies? Cantrips are somewhat worse than actual weapons, but they a. do magical damage, b. often have a secondary effect along with them, such as disadvantage on next weapon attack or reducing speed, c. scale so that they are not entirely worthless at higher levels. The true power of a wizard lies in their spell list. Reading just the class? yes, that does not seem good. But the wizard is not underpowered by any means.
I still don't get the premise of the "other class can do magic too so wizards are obsolete" argument. Other classes get multi attack, but the fighter is still your best shot if you wanna be a well- rounded melee damage dealer.
Other classes get magic, but wizards don't just get more. They get *so much* more. They're drowning in spell slots compared to any other class, the sheer selection of spells allows for numerous build options (control, support, crowd control, straight damage, etc), and contrary to your earlier claim, they get access to high level spells faster than any other class in the game.
Their class abilities are sparse, but if you see that as a drawback, then you don't fully understand how good being able to potentially learn EVERY spell on your spell list even is. Even after that, the class abilities they *do* get are generally powerful (looking at you Diviner who can straight dictate the result of rolls twice a day, or Abjurer who gets free wards, or War Wiz who gets to add his INT to initiative rolls).
I seriously dont get your claim about wizards standing in the back wiggling fingers either. It doesn't take wizards longer to cast spells than any other class, it's just Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction to cast any spell. The only exception is rituals, but not all spells are rituals, and most spells that are you can still cast normally and expend a spell slot like normal. Ritual spells are a choice, and they're intended for use out of combat so you can save slots for later. If you see a wizard standing in the background of a fight just wiggling their fingers using ritual spells in combat, then you're witnessing a very bad wizard at work.
It sounds like you're carrying in a lot of preconceptions into this discussion and I honestly don't know where they're coming from.
I think everyone has pounded in the main points pretty well, but I do have one little bit to add.
Why is it a problem that the Wizard isn't an all powerful god anymore?
No seriously, explain this to me. I enjoy having flaws as a character. I enjoy having weaknesses. "Oh no I'm being grappled! Thank goodness my beefy Paladin is here to save me!" It's fun to be challenged and have to use teamwork. I enjoy that a lot. Being a god isn't fun. It just means I'll win cause I can spam giant AoE spells or whatever.
It enjoy cooperating with my team. It feels SO GOOD to be in situation where its my time to shine. "Oh no that Hill Giant is wrecking my beefy Paladin! Good thing I've got Synaptic Snap prepared! Bye Bye Hill Giant!" And then when its my friend's turn to play hero, you know I feel? I feel great! I'm so happy I get to see my friends be awesome too! DnD 5e is such a blast of a game cause you and your friends get work together to overcome obstacles and have fun! :D
Maybe its just me, but I don't play the game to be a god and show everyone up my group. If I got the chance too, I wouldn't. I like my friends, I want them to have fun too.
(Also, not gonna lie the argument that spell slots are limited is not well founded at all. I've never been in a situation where my slots were exhausted. That's including a 10 combat dungeon run we did as a party. Just ration out your spells and use them cleverly. Or again, god forbid, let your party members do things they're good at. I literally ended at least 4 of those encounters with one spell. There was another one we talked our way out of too. Creativity goes a long with magic. Spamming fireball is rarely the right choice)
So my TLDR is 5e is well balanced which makes it fun for everyone. I love that because I get to cherish the moments where I get to fulfill my role, cherish the moments where my friends get to do the same, and in general cherish the memories we make as a party
The only exception is rituals, but not all spells are rituals, and most spells that are you can still cast normally and expend a spell slot like normal. Ritual spells are a choice, and they're intended for use out of combat so you can save slots for later.
Also, Wizards are the only class (well, not counting a subclass of Warlock) that can cast spells as rituals without preparing them (and therefore using up a prepared/known spell slot). This means, in part, that Wizards will use spells other classes won't, even if they can, because it is less than optimal to learn/prepare them. Tenser's Floating Disk, Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Magic Mouth, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Water Breathing... all spells that can be extremely useful, but will see little use from other classes, because they're situational enough not to warrant preparing/knowing them. Wizards don't have that problem.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well said. Full spell casters got many needed nerfs in 5e and the majority of arguments are simple belly aching about no longer being able to break the game. The rest seem to be from folks that don't fully understand the rules.
This is proving much of my point. Once you get above 5th level or so a wizard should only be casting a cantrip in extreme circumstances or if greater magic is simply not needed. At that level fireball is indeed a highly useful spell but spells such as hypnotic pattern and cone of cold out shine it as a control spell as levels increase. And the conjuration school is easily overlooked but can be pretty mighty. Consider the spell conjure minor elementals. It might seem weak at first but give the mephits a read. Most of them have a 2d6 breath weapon, explode on death for another 2d6 and they fly. A 5th level spell slot can summon eight magma mephits for 16d6 damage and then they can continue to fight by casting heat metal and finally dealing another 16d6 as they die off. A 10th level conjurer can't have his concentration broken and at 14th level each mephit will have over 50 hp so they will be sticking around for a while.
Other things wizards can do is plane shift the BBEG to the plane of fire. Or forcecage the BBEG minions for no save. All this before talking about what a wizard can do with the right magic staff and a few scrolls. When people start talking about how much damage a wizard can do they either do not fully understand how wizards work or they have never played a wizard above 7th level. In every edition of D&D wizards have started out a bit weak and finished strong and 5E is no exception. Are wizard's worth it? Dang straight they are. Few classes could handle an entire encounter by themselves like a well prepared wizard.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
You make very good points here however, this is all dependent upon the caster having available spell slots, and unfortunately many parties with melee/ranged/mundane characters only take rests when they need to heal. Thus, after a couple big fights the caster is rendered nearly useless as they have likely expended most/all of their spell slots. Granted, around 8th/10th level they have plenty of spell slots but prior to that they often have to rely on cantrips. I totally agree with the idea of nerfing the higher level spells as in prior editions the casters certainly could "brake the game." I simply feel, as do some of my players, that most of the classes "feel" homogenized such that most classes can do most things.
Personally, I miss the old ideas of:
Need something ID'd? Find a mage (broad term).
Need a spell scroll crafted? Find a mage.
Want to enchant your gear? Find a mage. I think you see my patern here; magic casting only/primarily classes just don't "feel" special anymore. Part of the early game trade off of low HP/AC was the usefulness a magic wielder brings to a party (both in and out of combat).
Since the entire reason we play is to have fun, if either the DM or the players aren't having fun (for whatever reason) then they will stop playing. For me, magic wielders just don't feel special anymore and thus I tend to play a different class since you can easily have a successful party without a magic specialist.
Well, Wizards in 5e DO get arcane recovery with a short rest starting at ummm, 1st level. 1st level! Also cantrips now scale with character level, so they retain some use in high tiers of play.
A lot of people who complain about Wizards in 5e also seem to neglect mentioning that Wizards now get to cast any spell from a prepared list. No more strict Vancian magic-spell slot restrictions! How many people would say that makes Wizards less fun to play? Seriously, I understand people who have complaints about the Sorcerer base class b/c this was one of their signature benefits compared to the Wizard in previous editions. If anything, they're the ones who lost serious mojo relative to other casters, not the Wizards.
This is an interesting argument because it could be argued the other way very easily - that choosing a melee class that is only good for "hitting enemy with stick" was unnecessarily restrictive and therefore not much fun for many players when, next to them, another player's character was able to do almost everything single-handedly. What then, would be the point of table top roleplaying for anybody who was not playing a Wizard? So yes, 5th edition changed the rules to make full casters, including Wizards, more balanced. And yes, that balance inevitably means that no one class gets to shine 90% of the time at high levels of play while other classes are left to just pick off minions.
Game balance encourages cooperative play. It encourages people to get along with each other. Maybe you don't enjoy that, but if 5th edition can, at the very least, nudge some barely social people into finding ways to work together in a fictional setting on a weekly basis, then I feel good about it because we are living in some divisive, rancorous times and part of that divisiveness comes from people having gotten used to Not interacting, Not listening, and Not cooperating with each other. This was one of the pitfalls that 3.5 and much of our video game-centric approach to RPGs in the early 2000s fell into. I am glad WotC has done something to fix this by introducing and helping to popularize a game system where no one character can be expected to - or be very successful in attempting to - do everything alone.
Yah, I admit that although I much prefer 5e's Wizard to older editions', I do miss the "craft scroll", "craft magic item", etc. abilities. I mean, they're still there, it's just that now just about everybody can do it, it's very expensive, and it takes a lot of (down)time to do. Before, making scrolls was something every Magic-user did, for versatility. Now, well, I have a level 9 Wizard who's never made a single scroll, and probably never will, sadly, although I want to, for both practical and flavor reasons (c'mon, I'm rarely, if ever, going to prepare Spider Climb... but I badly want it on a scroll, in case I need it!).
I don't miss having to use Identify on all magic items, but there are two reasons for that: 1) we still mostly do it, since it's faster/more efficient, 2) it's a QoL improvement not to need a Wizard/Bard to identify magic items.
If not for the implicit assumption that the DM is a man, I agree with this very much. So many people just can't adjust themselves to the idea that their particular favorite class is no longer completely OP at high levels.
I'm curious what prevents you from making a scroll now. Is it just too much gold? And which sets of rules is your DM using, the one in the DMG or in Xanathar's?
Time, and gold, yeah. It's not that I can't, it's that it's too much of a hassle. We're not using either, since we haven't created any magic items yet, but we'd use the ones in XgtE, probably.
Wizards may seem lacklustre at lower levels, compared to their closest rivals the sorcerer whose sorcery points and metamagic allow them to shine in a pre-chosen method of their choosing. In exchange they always have any ritual spells known 'prepared' for ritual casts. Its not exciting but its a toolbox of useful +1, especially later.
The wizard is at this time reliant on a subclass to differentiate them. Depending on the subclass this might never happen. Some subclasses are monsters though, becoming swiftly encounter breaking.
At 5th level the wizards rituals may include waterbreathing and leomunds tiny hut. Both of these are life saving and wont prevent you from preparing another 5+int mod spells per day.
In summation 5e casters have fewer spell slots than 1st 2nd or 3rd edition, spell expenditure should be something carefully weighed up. If this detracts from your ability to enjoy the wizard then please enjoy playing another class. Personally I do feel a wizard is worth playing in 5e, but not if the party cant hold enemies away from you. Pyjamas do not make good armour and each and every one of the few spell slots you have to use to defend yourself ablates your ability to assist the party.
As I am currently playing as a 14th level Wizard and I can honestly say that I make my DM insane. A well prepared Wizard is a game breaker if played with finess and forethought. Offensive spells are great but the ability to buff the party into an unstoppable unit able to face almost any obstacle is where the game balance gets out of whack. Being able to cast spells as rituals like Tiny Hut so the party can rest and not use spell slots is a huge game changer. Also casting cantrips that scale so you are never without an offensive spell adds to the Wizards versatility. Wizards have always been squishy at low levels but a high level Wizard is a power to be mindful of.
Personally, the limits of the identification and creation of magic items back in previous editions always made my suspension of disbelief itch. So you never thought to yourself 'where are all these primary spellcasters making all this stuff?' Surely you have played in games where the PC's have a variety of magic items just sitting around. Some of the early edition modules had so many magic items the players would be positively leaden at the end. It's this push and pull of trying to artificially make magic items seem special when they are not. Not in the basic level of D&D anyway.
I wonder at your claim that identifying and creating magic items made spellcasters 'special'. The ability to cast fly, cone of cold, teleport or wish isn't special enough? In earlier editions some races could not be wizards. You never wondered how all those cool dwarven magic items came to be? Apparently 1st or 2nd edition dwarves were special without being wizards.
To me it makes sense to spread out the ability to identify or create magic items. This way every town doesn't have to have a group of wizards or clerics making healing potions, scrolls and other magic items for the PC's to buy. And I don't have to explain why that group doesn't rush off and solve the local goblin problem. Now the PC's are the ones who are special and have to go do that. Maybe making magic items isn't that special but what is special is what the PC wizard can do instead.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
Personally, I feel the core wizard sub-classes in the PHB are extremely lacking when compared to the sub-classes of other classes. I look at them and feel completely uninspired or uninterested in what they bring to the main class. Maybe one or two of them seem to have a couple useful abilities, but that's really it. Then you see the bladesinger from Sword coast legends, and it blows away all the other wizard sub-classes. I think all the wizard sub-classes should be re-worked to make them worthwhile.
Other than that, my biggest complaint about spell casters and spells in general is how many spells require concentration. It's absurd. One of my greatest joys with playing any kind of spell caster in previous editions was how creative I could be with combining spells to create new effects/circumstances or being able to combine certain buffs or debuffs for a unique situation. You can no longer do that in 5th edition unless you homebrew an alternate way to handle concentration, which is what I do. The concentration mechanic hamstrings spell casters too severely IMO.
Combining is still possible, just gotta talk to the teammates for help. Yes concentration is not ideal but you can still do amazing things.
While I'm not gonna flat-out disagree with you here, you do have to take into consideration the fact that the core Wizard class already has a lot of features, which are naturally retained by the sub-classes. So Wizard sub-classes, when examined out of context, will look "plainer" than other classes' sub-classes. Bladesinger drastically changes a Wizard's gameplay, so the difference is more obviously dramatic. This is not common in other classes, though (Warlock stands out as an exception).
I disagree. You'll feel that way if you're comparing it to previous editions, but examined in context, you'll notice some of those effects are more powerful, some combinations would be overpowered, and some spells that feel like they obviously should be Concentration spells are not, in fact (e.g. Mirror Image). The Concentration mechanic certainly limits spellcasters, but I disagree that it "hamstrings spell casters too severely". Some spells/combinations, maybe, but not overall.
In short the problem was the old wizard, who was better than pretty much everyone at everything. Now they are balanced and fine. The best class at versatility, powerful but not best at anything anything else than versatility.
concentration was added for that very purpose - to allow powerful spells in the game while preventing über-buffing before critical fights, which was the norm back in the day.
in actual gameplay Wizards play a lot more logically now. They need henchmen around them for protection.
A wizard is the most powerful spellcaster in the game, at least when it comes to spells. Every weakness of the wizard can be undone by spells. The fact that it does not get too many class features (besides subclass features) ignores the fact that they are gaining at minimum, two spells per level from the best spell list in the game, and also have the ability to conceivably gain all of them, if the dm allows it. No armor proficiencies? Mage armor. No weapon proficiencies? Cantrips are somewhat worse than actual weapons, but they a. do magical damage, b. often have a secondary effect along with them, such as disadvantage on next weapon attack or reducing speed, c. scale so that they are not entirely worthless at higher levels. The true power of a wizard lies in their spell list. Reading just the class? yes, that does not seem good. But the wizard is not underpowered by any means.
If you are playing your wizard as a cantrip blaster who stands in the back and occasionally casts fireball, you are playing a wizard wrong.
I still don't get the premise of the "other class can do magic too so wizards are obsolete" argument. Other classes get multi attack, but the fighter is still your best shot if you wanna be a well- rounded melee damage dealer.
Other classes get magic, but wizards don't just get more. They get *so much* more. They're drowning in spell slots compared to any other class, the sheer selection of spells allows for numerous build options (control, support, crowd control, straight damage, etc), and contrary to your earlier claim, they get access to high level spells faster than any other class in the game.
Their class abilities are sparse, but if you see that as a drawback, then you don't fully understand how good being able to potentially learn EVERY spell on your spell list even is. Even after that, the class abilities they *do* get are generally powerful (looking at you Diviner who can straight dictate the result of rolls twice a day, or Abjurer who gets free wards, or War Wiz who gets to add his INT to initiative rolls).
I seriously dont get your claim about wizards standing in the back wiggling fingers either. It doesn't take wizards longer to cast spells than any other class, it's just Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction to cast any spell. The only exception is rituals, but not all spells are rituals, and most spells that are you can still cast normally and expend a spell slot like normal. Ritual spells are a choice, and they're intended for use out of combat so you can save slots for later. If you see a wizard standing in the background of a fight just wiggling their fingers using ritual spells in combat, then you're witnessing a very bad wizard at work.
It sounds like you're carrying in a lot of preconceptions into this discussion and I honestly don't know where they're coming from.
actually sorcerers get the most spell slots, and wizards dont get high level spells earlier.
I think everyone has pounded in the main points pretty well, but I do have one little bit to add.
Why is it a problem that the Wizard isn't an all powerful god anymore?
No seriously, explain this to me. I enjoy having flaws as a character. I enjoy having weaknesses. "Oh no I'm being grappled! Thank goodness my beefy Paladin is here to save me!" It's fun to be challenged and have to use teamwork. I enjoy that a lot. Being a god isn't fun. It just means I'll win cause I can spam giant AoE spells or whatever.
It enjoy cooperating with my team. It feels SO GOOD to be in situation where its my time to shine. "Oh no that Hill Giant is wrecking my beefy Paladin! Good thing I've got Synaptic Snap prepared! Bye Bye Hill Giant!" And then when its my friend's turn to play hero, you know I feel? I feel great! I'm so happy I get to see my friends be awesome too! DnD 5e is such a blast of a game cause you and your friends get work together to overcome obstacles and have fun! :D
Maybe its just me, but I don't play the game to be a god and show everyone up my group. If I got the chance too, I wouldn't. I like my friends, I want them to have fun too.
(Also, not gonna lie the argument that spell slots are limited is not well founded at all. I've never been in a situation where my slots were exhausted. That's including a 10 combat dungeon run we did as a party. Just ration out your spells and use them cleverly. Or again, god forbid, let your party members do things they're good at. I literally ended at least 4 of those encounters with one spell. There was another one we talked our way out of too. Creativity goes a long with magic. Spamming fireball is rarely the right choice)
So my TLDR is 5e is well balanced which makes it fun for everyone. I love that because I get to cherish the moments where I get to fulfill my role, cherish the moments where my friends get to do the same, and in general cherish the memories we make as a party
Also, Wizards are the only class (well, not counting a subclass of Warlock) that can cast spells as rituals without preparing them (and therefore using up a prepared/known spell slot). This means, in part, that Wizards will use spells other classes won't, even if they can, because it is less than optimal to learn/prepare them. Tenser's Floating Disk, Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Magic Mouth, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Water Breathing... all spells that can be extremely useful, but will see little use from other classes, because they're situational enough not to warrant preparing/knowing them. Wizards don't have that problem.