My results haven't been extremely unlucky. Getting three 13s is far from guaranteed. You've got about a 48.77% chance of rolling a 13 or better on each individual roll of 4D6 drop 1. You've got about a 63.29% chance of your 3rd best score being 13 or better. You've got about a 32.09% chance of your 4th best score being 13 or better. You need to work on your math.
You have just under a 50% chance to roll a 13, so you think that means that everyone got a 13 at least 3 times out of 6? Are you trolling? Or do you just suck at math?
This is toxic, please stop responding.
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It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
You have just under a 50% chance to roll a 13, so you think that means that everyone got a 13 at least 3 times out of 6? Are you trolling? Or do you just suck at math?
This is toxic, please stop responding.
Accusing somebody of trolling when they're trying to help you is ****ed up dude. Don't throw out the accusation at others if you can't handle it being thrown back at you.
I tried to help you, and I wasn't rude to you at all. I admitted that I was wrong about the need for the war caster feat when holding a shield.
I addressed your worry about mage armor being dispelled, because the first point about why you prefer actual armor is that it can't be dispelled, and then you seemed to be upset that I addressed your first listed reason for preferring actual armor to mage armor. I told you that the first reason you listed for preferring actual armor to mage armor was not necessary, and you got really upset that you were wrong. I didn't get upset that I was wrong about the need for war caster. Your reaction to being wrong was much worse than mine.
Your reaction to another very valid point I made about putting a 13 in a stat category has also been immature, not to mention mathematically incorrect. You said that everyone has at least three 13s, when three of my five characters haven't had that, and my chances of not having three 13s were actually 36.71%, which means that it happens quite often.
You need to learn how to handle people not agreeing with you. Either that, or just don't ask for advice. Or just say in your first post that you're immature and you can't handle people disagreeing with you, so you only want people to give answers that you like. Don't ask "is it worth it?" if you're going to get upset when people tell you that it's not worth it.
Sorry, I thought others had already explained it further. I just think there are better options for being more defensive with your wizard. Making a mountain dwarf or bladesinger, using mage armor or shield spells, or any number of other options. If you're worried about mage armor being dispelled, don't be. Dispel magic is a third level spell and to use it to remove mage armor is.. a pretty uninspiring use of a third level spell or bad guy feature. Also, how many enemies are you going to be facing that can do that. If you're looking at it just for the medium armor and shields, there are way better ways to up your AC than dip in cleric.
Lets do some comparing. We'll assume you use point buy and take the average HP every level.
Level 2: Sure, seems worth it. I suppose. If you aren't going to progress much further, fine.
Your Cleric (knowledge)/Wizard has 18 armor (Scail Mail, 14 dex, shield). 3 spell slots, access to cleric and wizard spells. Extra cantrips from Cleric. Your max Con is 13, so you have 14 HP. 16 Int.
My Wizard #1 has his Arcane tradition, takes Bladesinger. Using Bladesong (twice per short rest), his AC is 16 from dex and int but can be increased by mage armor to get it to 19. Alternatively, he can use light armor to bring it up to 18 (studded leather). 3 spell slots, access to wizard spells. Max Con is 14, so 14 HP. Also can add Int mod to con saving throws which will be huge. 16 int.
My Wizard #2 is a Mountain dwarf. Takes.. lets say Abjuration as his tradition because you seem to be very interested in defense. He has medium armor, 14 Dex, which brings his AC up to 16. 14 Int. 16 HP. Will also get an arcane ward whenever casting an abjuration spell for another 6 bringing the total to 22. That is almost barbarian level of HP.
Level 3: Starting to regret your choices.
Your Cleric/Wizard gets your cleric stuff + any of my wizard stuffs from level 2 (or whatever Arcane tradition). Will call this your new base. 4 1st level spell slots, 2 2nd level spell slots but cannot learn any level 2 spells. Can upcast level 1 spells to level 2 though. A good spell here is Magic Missile to do good damage and can be upcast to use those 2nd level slots. Upcast damage 4d4 + 4.
My Wizard #1 Has the same spell slots but has access to level 2 spells. A good spell here is Shadow Blade to do a lot of damage. 2d8 + 3 but can be used every round until you lose concentration (or 10 rounds). This can be thrown as well so still useful if you're not using bladesong.
My Wizard #2 Has the same spell slots but has access to level 2 spells. A good spell here is Hold Person to really up your usefulness as a defensive spellcaster.
Level 5: Maybe still good? Level 4 wasn't so bad. Wow, that fireball that other wizard cast just did an asston of damage. This is the point where you could realistically be having mage armor dispelled.
Your guy has level 2 spells by this point so that's good. 3rd level slots to upcast whatever you want. Maybe Shadow Blade or Hold Person. Maybe a heal spell for 4d8+1 damage. Your guy has 29 HP.
Mage #1 is casting Fireball now. 8d6 damage to a big area. He has 32 HP.
Mage #2 is casting Counterspell and Hypnotic Pattern to help his team out. He has 37 and his ward is a bit higher at 14.
Level 6:
Your guy has fireball now too!
Mage #1 is now attacking twice with that upcast Shadow Blade. 3d8 + 3 (maybe 4) * 2. That is basically a single target fireball every Round for just one spell slot. Crazy high damage to fight that big boss guy.
Mage #2 can now use his arcane ward to help his allies. That ward is now 16 extra HP.
I guess my main point here is that you are always going feel less powerful compared to a same level wizard or cleric for relatively small trade-offs. There is no synergy here and your stats are going to suffer for it. Your hit points will always be lower after level 2 because of the lower con score. You will always be casting lower level spells, getting class features late, and all so that you can get a little higher armor when there are better ways of getting high armor or better survivability.
1st level spell slot might be a high cost at level 1 or 2 for that extra 3 armor, but by level 5, it's pretty unimportant.
When rolling for stats, typically you'll do 4d6 and subtract the smallest dice. When you do that, your average score is 12.
I don't mean to poo poo on your idea though. If you want to do it, do it. You asked if it was a good idea and the only way I can answer that is by looking at it mechanically. Mechanically it's not good. I have no way to judge the RP things you have dreamed up that will make it worth playing. Just because something is mechanically stronger doesn't mean it will be more fun to play.
Sorry, I thought others had already explained it further. I just think there are better options for being more defensive with your wizard. Making a mountain dwarf or bladesinger, using mage armor or shield spells, or any number of other options. If you're worried about mage armor being dispelled, don't be. Dispel magic is a third level spell and to use it to remove mage armor is.. a pretty uninspiring use of a third level spell or bad guy feature. Also, how many enemies are you going to be facing that can do that. If you're looking at it just for the medium armor and shields, there are way better ways to up your AC than dip in cleric.
Lets do some comparing. We'll assume you use point buy and take the average HP every level.
Level 2: Sure, seems worth it. I suppose. If you aren't going to progress much further, fine.
Your Cleric (knowledge)/Wizard has 18 armor (Scail Mail, 14 dex, shield). 3 spell slots, access to cleric and wizard spells. Extra cantrips from Cleric. Your max Con is 13, so you have 14 HP. 16 Int.
My Wizard #1 has his Arcane tradition, takes Bladesinger. Using Bladesong (twice per short rest), his AC is 16 from dex and int but can be increased by mage armor to get it to 19. Alternatively, he can use light armor to bring it up to 18 (studded leather). 3 spell slots, access to wizard spells. Max Con is 14, so 14 HP. Also can add Int mod to con saving throws which will be huge. 16 int.
My Wizard #2 is a Mountain dwarf. Takes.. lets say Abjuration as his tradition because you seem to be very interested in defense. He has medium armor, 14 Dex, which brings his AC up to 16. 14 Int. 16 HP. Will also get an arcane ward whenever casting an abjuration spell for another 6 bringing the total to 22. That is almost barbarian level of HP.
Level 3: Starting to regret your choices.
Your Cleric/Wizard gets your cleric stuff + any of my wizard stuffs from level 2 (or whatever Arcane tradition). Will call this your new base. 4 1st level spell slots, 2 2nd level spell slots but cannot learn any level 2 spells. Can upcast level 1 spells to level 2 though. A good spell here is Magic Missile to do good damage and can be upcast to use those 2nd level slots. Upcast damage 4d4 + 4.
My Wizard #1 Has the same spell slots but has access to level 2 spells. A good spell here is Shadow Blade to do a lot of damage. 2d8 + 3 but can be used every round until you lose concentration (or 10 rounds). This can be thrown as well so still useful if you're not using bladesong.
My Wizard #2 Has the same spell slots but has access to level 2 spells. A good spell here is Hold Person to really up your usefulness as a defensive spellcaster.
Level 5: Maybe still good? Level 4 wasn't so bad. Wow, that fireball that other wizard cast just did an asston of damage. This is the point where you could realistically be having mage armor dispelled.
Your guy has level 2 spells by this point so that's good. 3rd level slots to upcast whatever you want. Maybe Shadow Blade or Hold Person. Maybe a heal spell for 4d8+1 damage. Your guy has 29 HP.
Mage #1 is casting Fireball now. 8d6 damage to a big area. He has 32 HP.
Mage #2 is casting Counterspell and Hypnotic Pattern to help his team out. He has 37 and his ward is a bit higher at 14.
Level 6:
Your guy has fireball now too!
Mage #1 is now attacking twice with that upcast Shadow Blade. 3d8 + 3 (maybe 4) * 2. That is basically a single target fireball every Round for just one spell slot. Crazy high damage to fight that big boss guy.
Mage #2 can now use his arcane ward to help his allies. That ward is now 16 extra HP.
I guess my main point here is that you are always going feel less powerful compared to a same level wizard or cleric for relatively small trade-offs. There is no synergy here and your stats are going to suffer for it. Your hit points will always be lower after level 2 because of the lower con score. You will always be casting lower level spells, getting class features late, and all so that you can get a little higher armor when there are better ways of getting high armor or better survivability.
Firstly, great post. Thanks for all the detail
Here's what I'm not understanding. When I make a Cleric1/Wizard X in DNDBeyond My spell slots are the exact same as a Wizard X character of the same character level. And my current understanding is that I can learn spells every time I level as a wizard of the level. So to me, because I never fall behind in spell slots, it means I don't lose access to spells. I simply don't get class features/ASI on time -> have to wait for one more level.
It's certainly possible that this isn't the intended function in DNDBeyond and it's a bug. But that just means I'm basing my decisions off of bad information from DNDbeyond. So I totally agree I will not have the class features on time. But I'm like 99% certain that the Cleric1/WizardX doesn't miss out on spell slots. Can someone verify?
There's also a ton of great reasons aside from armor to take a cleric dip.
ability to heal
extra cantrips
spells you can't normally get
Anyway, thanks for great reply :D
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It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
Also: a 1 level spell slot might be a high cost at level 1 or 2 for that extra 3 armor, but by level 5, it's pretty unimportant.
I don't mean to poo poo on your idea though. If you want to do it, do it. You asked if it was a good idea and the only way I can answer that is by looking at it mechanically. Mechanically it's not good. I have no way to judge the RP things you have dreamed up that will make it worth playing.
It's clear that he wants to do that, and he doesn't care what people think. And he's a bit of a jerk about it, too.
It's fine to do something different: four of my five characters have been unorthodox strategies that were intentionally doing something different. Enough people have played D&D that it's known what builds are the most powerful and what builds are less than optimal. And aside from my first character being a simple Arcane Trickster, all of my characters have been less than optimal builds. But they've all still been good enough to still have fun and still contribute.
Doing a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1 is less powerful than a Wizard X, but he's still going to have a lot of fun. If he's doing it for RP reasons, it's a great idea, especially if he's a Knowledge Cleric or Arcana Cleric. If he's trying to min-max his character, and he doesn't have the roleplaying aspect figured out, it's better if he sticks with a pure Wizard X.
So I think you have misunderstood how multiclassing and spells work. It is confusing. Make a Cleric 1/Wizard 6 in the character builder. You'll have 4th level slots for wizard or cleric spells, but you'll only be able to add 1st level cleric spells and up to 3rd level wizard spells. That's because the spells you learn is based on your levels in the class while your spell slot levels are dependent on your total level.
Here is the relevant excerpt from the Players Handbook under the multiclassing rules:
Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
A wizard 7 would be able to cast 4th level spells by this point. Because this example is a wizard 3, they only have access to 2nd level spells.
Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes, and a third of your fighter or rogue levels (rounded down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster feature. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells. If a lower-level spell that you cast, like burning hands, has an enhanced effect when cast using a higher-level slot, you can use the enhanced effect, even though you don't have any spells of that higher level.
For example, if you are the aforementioned ranger 4/wizard 3, you count as a 5th-level character when determining your spell slots: you have four 1st-level slots, three 2nd-level slots, and two 3rd-level slots. However, you don't know any 3rd-level spells, nor do you know any 2nd-level ranger spells. You can use the spell slots of those levels to cast the spells you do know — and potentially enhance their effects.
Multiclass Spellcaster
Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
1st
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
2nd
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
3rd
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
4th
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
5th
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
6th
4
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
7th
4
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
8th
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
9th
4
3
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
10th
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
11th
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-
12th
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-
13th
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-
14th
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-
15th
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-
16th
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-
17th
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1
18th
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1
19th
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
20th
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1
Because you are looking at Cleric 1/Wizard 6, you'll have access to 4th level spell slots, but only 1st level Cleric Spells and 3rd level Wizard Spells.
So I think you have misunderstood how multiclassing and spells work. It is confusing. Make a Cleric 1/Wizard 6 in the character builder. You'll have 4th level slots for wizard or cleric spells, but you'll only be able to add 1st level cleric spells and up to 3rd level wizard spells. That's because the spells you learn is based on your levels in the class while your spell slot levels are dependent on your total level.
Here is the relevant excerpt from the Players Handbook under the multiclassing rules:
Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
A wizard 7 would be able to cast 4th level spells by this point. Because this example is a wizard 3, they only have access to 2nd level spells.
Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes, and a third of your fighter or rogue levels (rounded down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster feature. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells. If a lower-level spell that you cast, like burning hands, has an enhanced effect when cast using a higher-level slot, you can use the enhanced effect, even though you don't have any spells of that higher level.
For example, if you are the aforementioned ranger 4/wizard 3, you count as a 5th-level character when determining your spell slots: you have four 1st-level slots, three 2nd-level slots, and two 3rd-level slots. However, you don't know any 3rd-level spells, nor do you know any 2nd-level ranger spells. You can use the spell slots of those levels to cast the spells you do know — and potentially enhance their effects.
This is excellent. I did miss this when reading. Thanks. Very helpful dude.
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It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
Also: a 1 level spell slot might be a high cost at level 1 or 2 for that extra 3 armor, but by level 5, it's pretty unimportant.
I don't mean to poo poo on your idea though. If you want to do it, do it. You asked if it was a good idea and the only way I can answer that is by looking at it mechanically. Mechanically it's not good. I have no way to judge the RP things you have dreamed up that will make it worth playing.
It's clear that he wants to do that, and he doesn't care what people think. And he's a bit of a jerk about it, too.
It's fine to do something different: four of my five characters have been unorthodox strategies that were intentionally doing something different. Enough people have played D&D that it's known what builds are the most powerful and what builds are less than optimal. And aside from my first character being a simple Arcane Trickster, all of my characters have been less than optimal builds. But they've all still been good enough to still have fun and still contribute.
Doing a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1 is less powerful than a Wizard X, but he's still going to have a lot of fun. If he's doing it for RP reasons, it's a great idea, especially if he's a Knowledge Cleric or Arcana Cleric. If he's trying to min-max his character, and he doesn't have the roleplaying aspect figured out, it's better if he sticks with a pure Wizard X.
I don't think he was being a jerk. I think he just didn't understand arguably the most confusing rule in 5e. I think he was just justifiably defensive about your "suck at math" comment.
Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar).
Your Cleric/Wizard gets your cleric stuff + any of my wizard stuffs from level 2 (or whatever Arcane tradition). Will call this your new base. 4 1st level spell slots, 2 2nd level spell slots but cannot learn any level 2 spells. Can upcast level 1 spells to level 2 though. A good spell here is Magic Missile to do good damage and can be upcast to use those 2nd level slots. Upcast damage 4d4 + 4.
Magic missile is a single damage roll as per the errata. Just to clear up confusion, when casting magic missile roll a single d4, add modifiers such as empowered evocation, then apply that number to each missile. The actual damage in this case will be (1d4 + 1) * 4
Your Cleric/Wizard gets your cleric stuff + any of my wizard stuffs from level 2 (or whatever Arcane tradition). Will call this your new base. 4 1st level spell slots, 2 2nd level spell slots but cannot learn any level 2 spells. Can upcast level 1 spells to level 2 though. A good spell here is Magic Missile to do good damage and can be upcast to use those 2nd level slots. Upcast damage 4d4 + 4.
Magic missile is a single damage roll as per the errata. Just to clear up confusion, when casting magic missile roll a single d4, add modifiers such as empowered evocation, then apply that number to each missile. The actual damage in this case will be (1d4 + 1) * 4
as far as 13 being a high score, if you roll an array with 4d6 drop lowest which is incredibly common for rolling, you have roughly a 48% of getting a 13 or higher. to me that says everyone probably has 3 >13 scores.
That's not at all how probabilities work. The expected value is not the minimum value. There's a very big difference between the two.
If you flip a coin 6 times, are you guaranteed to get at least 3 heads? Of course not. So if you do 4D6 drop the lowest 6 times, are you guaranteed to get at least 3 scores of 13 or higher? Of course not.
If the chance of getting a 13 or higher was exactly 50%, the chances of getting four scores of 13+ would be equal to the chance of getting only two scores of 13+. But since the chance of getting a 13 or higher is slightly less than 50%, that means that you're actually slightly more likely to end up with two or fewer scores of 13+ than you are to end up with four or more scores of 13+.
So in the event that you only end up with 2 or 3 good stats, I don't recommend putting one of those good rolls in Wisdom, while making either your Dexterity or your Constitution a weak point. Instead, pick Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution as your top 3 stats, and start off with 1 level in Fighter. Choose the Defense Fighting Style, and you'll get +1 AC. You'll also get 2 more HP than a Cleric (and you'll probably have a better Constitution score than if you were multiclassing as a Cleric-Wizard, which might mean +1 more HP at every level), and you'll have 1 better AC than a Cleric (or more, if by multiclassing as Fighter instead of Cleric, you get a better Dexterity score), and you'll get a bonus action heal of 1D10+1 every short rest from Second Wind. And best of all, you will have proficiency in Constitution Saving Throws.
You will be one level behind in spell slot progression compared to a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1, but if you only get two or three good rolls, it's much better to play as a Fighter 1 Wizard X-1 than it is to play as a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1 with weaker Constitution and Dexterity scores.
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The five times I've rolled for stats, I've rolled:
17,13,12,11,9,9
16,16,15,11,10,8
15,14,12,10,10,8
16,14,14,11,9,5
16,15,11,11,11,10
My results haven't been extremely unlucky. Getting three 13s is far from guaranteed. You've got about a 48.77% chance of rolling a 13 or better on each individual roll of 4D6 drop 1. You've got about a 63.29% chance of your 3rd best score being 13 or better. You've got about a 32.09% chance of your 4th best score being 13 or better. You need to work on your math.
This is toxic, please stop responding.
It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
Accusing somebody of trolling when they're trying to help you is ****ed up dude. Don't throw out the accusation at others if you can't handle it being thrown back at you.
I tried to help you, and I wasn't rude to you at all. I admitted that I was wrong about the need for the war caster feat when holding a shield.
I addressed your worry about mage armor being dispelled, because the first point about why you prefer actual armor is that it can't be dispelled, and then you seemed to be upset that I addressed your first listed reason for preferring actual armor to mage armor. I told you that the first reason you listed for preferring actual armor to mage armor was not necessary, and you got really upset that you were wrong. I didn't get upset that I was wrong about the need for war caster. Your reaction to being wrong was much worse than mine.
Your reaction to another very valid point I made about putting a 13 in a stat category has also been immature, not to mention mathematically incorrect. You said that everyone has at least three 13s, when three of my five characters haven't had that, and my chances of not having three 13s were actually 36.71%, which means that it happens quite often.
You need to learn how to handle people not agreeing with you. Either that, or just don't ask for advice. Or just say in your first post that you're immature and you can't handle people disagreeing with you, so you only want people to give answers that you like. Don't ask "is it worth it?" if you're going to get upset when people tell you that it's not worth it.
Sorry, I thought others had already explained it further. I just think there are better options for being more defensive with your wizard. Making a mountain dwarf or bladesinger, using mage armor or shield spells, or any number of other options. If you're worried about mage armor being dispelled, don't be. Dispel magic is a third level spell and to use it to remove mage armor is.. a pretty uninspiring use of a third level spell or bad guy feature. Also, how many enemies are you going to be facing that can do that. If you're looking at it just for the medium armor and shields, there are way better ways to up your AC than dip in cleric.
Lets do some comparing. We'll assume you use point buy and take the average HP every level.
I guess my main point here is that you are always going feel less powerful compared to a same level wizard or cleric for relatively small trade-offs. There is no synergy here and your stats are going to suffer for it. Your hit points will always be lower after level 2 because of the lower con score. You will always be casting lower level spells, getting class features late, and all so that you can get a little higher armor when there are better ways of getting high armor or better survivability.
Other things since reading the whole thread:
I don't mean to poo poo on your idea though. If you want to do it, do it. You asked if it was a good idea and the only way I can answer that is by looking at it mechanically. Mechanically it's not good. I have no way to judge the RP things you have dreamed up that will make it worth playing. Just because something is mechanically stronger doesn't mean it will be more fun to play.
Firstly, great post. Thanks for all the detail
Here's what I'm not understanding. When I make a Cleric1/Wizard X in DNDBeyond My spell slots are the exact same as a Wizard X character of the same character level. And my current understanding is that I can learn spells every time I level as a wizard of the level. So to me, because I never fall behind in spell slots, it means I don't lose access to spells. I simply don't get class features/ASI on time -> have to wait for one more level.
It's certainly possible that this isn't the intended function in DNDBeyond and it's a bug. But that just means I'm basing my decisions off of bad information from DNDbeyond. So I totally agree I will not have the class features on time. But I'm like 99% certain that the Cleric1/WizardX doesn't miss out on spell slots. Can someone verify?
There's also a ton of great reasons aside from armor to take a cleric dip.
Anyway, thanks for great reply :D
It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
It's clear that he wants to do that, and he doesn't care what people think. And he's a bit of a jerk about it, too.
It's fine to do something different: four of my five characters have been unorthodox strategies that were intentionally doing something different. Enough people have played D&D that it's known what builds are the most powerful and what builds are less than optimal. And aside from my first character being a simple Arcane Trickster, all of my characters have been less than optimal builds. But they've all still been good enough to still have fun and still contribute.
Doing a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1 is less powerful than a Wizard X, but he's still going to have a lot of fun. If he's doing it for RP reasons, it's a great idea, especially if he's a Knowledge Cleric or Arcana Cleric. If he's trying to min-max his character, and he doesn't have the roleplaying aspect figured out, it's better if he sticks with a pure Wizard X.
You're welcome.
So I think you have misunderstood how multiclassing and spells work. It is confusing. Make a Cleric 1/Wizard 6 in the character builder. You'll have 4th level slots for wizard or cleric spells, but you'll only be able to add 1st level cleric spells and up to 3rd level wizard spells. That's because the spells you learn is based on your levels in the class while your spell slot levels are dependent on your total level.
Here is the relevant excerpt from the Players Handbook under the multiclassing rules:
A wizard 7 would be able to cast 4th level spells by this point. Because this example is a wizard 3, they only have access to 2nd level spells.
Because you are looking at Cleric 1/Wizard 6, you'll have access to 4th level spell slots, but only 1st level Cleric Spells and 3rd level Wizard Spells.
This is excellent. I did miss this when reading. Thanks. Very helpful dude.
It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
I don't think he was being a jerk. I think he just didn't understand arguably the most confusing rule in 5e. I think he was just justifiably defensive about your "suck at math" comment.
If his understanding of the rule were correct, he would be right in thinking that the cleric dip would be worthwhile.
This is the source of confusion
https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/wizard#ClassFeatures
Learning Spells of 1st Level and Higher
Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar).
Whereas this was the information I needed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/customization-options#Spellcasting
It doesn't matter how smart you think are you. No one will want to work with you if you're an *******.
Magic missile is a single damage roll as per the errata. Just to clear up confusion, when casting magic missile roll a single d4, add modifiers such as empowered evocation, then apply that number to each missile. The actual damage in this case will be (1d4 + 1) * 4
That is RAW. RAI is you could do either. Crawford confirmed that. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/17/magic-missile-do-you-roll-the-same-d4-for-all-darts/
Good to know!
That's not at all how probabilities work. The expected value is not the minimum value. There's a very big difference between the two.
If you flip a coin 6 times, are you guaranteed to get at least 3 heads? Of course not. So if you do 4D6 drop the lowest 6 times, are you guaranteed to get at least 3 scores of 13 or higher? Of course not.
If the chance of getting a 13 or higher was exactly 50%, the chances of getting four scores of 13+ would be equal to the chance of getting only two scores of 13+. But since the chance of getting a 13 or higher is slightly less than 50%, that means that you're actually slightly more likely to end up with two or fewer scores of 13+ than you are to end up with four or more scores of 13+.
So in the event that you only end up with 2 or 3 good stats, I don't recommend putting one of those good rolls in Wisdom, while making either your Dexterity or your Constitution a weak point. Instead, pick Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution as your top 3 stats, and start off with 1 level in Fighter. Choose the Defense Fighting Style, and you'll get +1 AC. You'll also get 2 more HP than a Cleric (and you'll probably have a better Constitution score than if you were multiclassing as a Cleric-Wizard, which might mean +1 more HP at every level), and you'll have 1 better AC than a Cleric (or more, if by multiclassing as Fighter instead of Cleric, you get a better Dexterity score), and you'll get a bonus action heal of 1D10+1 every short rest from Second Wind. And best of all, you will have proficiency in Constitution Saving Throws.
You will be one level behind in spell slot progression compared to a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1, but if you only get two or three good rolls, it's much better to play as a Fighter 1 Wizard X-1 than it is to play as a Cleric 1 Wizard X-1 with weaker Constitution and Dexterity scores.