Like many a thread here, I will be partying ways with DnD Beyond over the issues with the OGL and lack of communications from wizards of the coast.
I could cite the document that was leaked and lists the many reasons why trying to change the OGL is bad or how corporate greed is behind this but really that's not the core of what's wrong. The most telling to me is Wizard's silence and unresponsive nature to this matter, it flat out shows they either don't care about the customer or they were blind to what the reaction would be. Either way, it shows being out of touch with us as customers and the third party comminute around DnD.
I've been a paid member of this service since it launched and bought nearly every sourcebook on top of owning most of the hardcovers for my real-life table on top of being an avid player far before 5th came out. But congratulations wizards, in a matter of a few days you have soured my entire love for your game I've enjoyed for over 25 years.
I don't regret my time playing the game and none reading this should feel the same. Remember the fun with your friends and the stories you told together that made you laugh and cry together. Treasure them, I know I will. What I do regret is that I have supported a company that could even possibly entertain the idea of treating their loyal player base like this and expecting to get away with it. To everyone leaving or thinking of leaving and reading this, don't come back. Even if they change their tune, even if they do a 180 and beg for forgiveness. Move to another system, don't let them think it's okay to try something like this and then backtrack. I will not be back, Wizards and DnD Beyond will not be getting my money ever again and I will find a new system to show and get my players excited for.
I wish I was a content creator or some big influencer. I'm not, I'm just a DM who used to run a small home table and now runs small online games for friends. I urge anyone who reads this to speak up to the content creators. Tell them to move away, don't look back. Tell them this is not the content you want to see anymore. We watch them for the humor and stories they bring, this can happen in any system. It doesn't have to be DnD.
Goodbye DnD. I'll remember the fun and leave the Mountain Dew & Cheetos
I likewise canceled my subscription and have no desire to reactivate it as long as they current course. Even if they do, i will have to think long and hard.
I don't need to delete my account. Like it or not I've paid for books and material on this site and while I may never use 5th again at the table. That doesn't mean I can't use the things I've paid for as reference material for whatever else I decide to run. I will not be re-subbing and I will not be buying new books. As far as the site is concerned this account is dead.
I likewise canceled my subscription and have no desire to reactivate it as long as they current course. Even if they do, i will have to think long and hard.
Don't. Coming back even if they were to change course just proves they can try again later. Hell, they tried this with 4th ed and tried to get away from the OGL back then. It didn't work out well for them. They didn't learn their lesson then, why would they learn it now?
With that logic, they have no reason or incentive to change. Why change for the better if people still abandon in droves? Lose/lose in that situation.
Support good business choices. If they go back to OGL 1.0a, then nothing has changed and support can continue. What if they try stuff in the future? Easy, vote with your wallet again.
I don't need to delete my account. Like it or not I've paid for books and material on this site and while I may never use 5th again at the table. That doesn't mean I can't use the things I've paid for as reference material for whatever else I decide to run. I will not be re-subbing and I will not be buying new books. As far as the site is concerned this account is dead.
Ah, well when ye say goodbye D&D in your original post, it certain sounds like you have no intention of using anything. And even with the above as far as the site is concerned this account is dead. You'd have to log in to use the content ye purchased, so... the account wouldn't really be dead. You'd still be using it.
With that logic, they have no reason or incentive to change. Why change for the better if people still abandon in droves? Lose/lose in that situation.
Support good business choices. If they go back to OGL 1.0a, then nothing has changed and support can continue. What if they try stuff in the future? Easy, vote with your wallet again.
Except this HAS happened before.
4th ed tried the exact same thing. But instead, they wrote a whole new license for it called the GSL. 4th was designed around the idea of having a VTT that we never got because it was received so badly that they stopped production of it. People forget that. Also 4th had an online character builder (which was terrible) that you had to pay a monthly fee to access. It was called DnD Insider. 10 dollars a month if I recall.
So does this ring a bell?
New rules to replace the OGL Wanting a VTT of their own (announced in August) Subscription-based service (Bought DnD Beyond)
this has all happened before and 4th ed sold poorly. They went back to the drawing board, brought back the OGL for 5th and it became a success again, the moment they had market dominance, we now get this crap. So obviously they didn't learn the first time. They don't deserve another chance.
I've been playing D&D since 1987. I was 12. I played with the red box 1st edition since it was the only rules.
In 1992, we bought all the AD&D stuff we could grab. We bought all the books and adventures that came up in French since two of my friends just speak French. At that time, I was already a forever DM and enjoying it.
In 2005, we made the change to 3.5. This is where I got to meet the OGL and got to become a translator for my friends. I made French versions of all the books that they bought and I got paid for it.
Fast forward again to 2017. We get on-board with the 5e. We love it better. Then, Covid strike. I spent a lot of time watching videos on how to improve my games. A lot of new content creators came up on Youtube and I subscribed to half of them. I eat, drink and breathe D&D. I was toying with the idea to start my own in French for those who only speak French. Now, I’m sad.
I’m 47, I’ve been DMing D&D in many form and shapes, for the last 30 years. I am currently looking at other, less expensive TTRPG, to switch my campaigns.
YOU LOST US ALL!
42 here and I know how you feel. Have hope, that you will find something you will like just as much and there will be new systems coming out now to combat this debacle wizards has created. Piazo, Kobold Press, and MCDM all have made commitments to putting out a new system. Though none of those are going to see the light of day for a little bit still. The GSL was a power move that no one liked but it didn't touch the OGL. This 1.1 OGL is a betrayal of trust that people need to understand cannot be tolerated.
I really do not understand how am industry leader, the one that created the industry, kills the thing that made the industry.
Before 2000 we remember how small dnd was, and other rpg's were much smaller. This thing with the OGL let creative people like us to make a living out of their hobby. It made people happy! (Not us 3, but way too many people.)
Attempting to take away the dream job out of so many people's lives is ... let's say "not nice".
Also, there is a Venn diagram out there with 2 groups of people. People who buy wotc products and people who aspire to make their dnd creativity their dream job (not just the ones that accomplished it, but the ones who aspire to it too.) I cannot imagine that it is a negligible common area.
This move is turning an industry leader into just another video game developer with a cool idea and huge IP.... Marvel and DC made it an industry because they were loved and they took in their creatives, make them household names and took care of the fans.
You cannot rake in the leaves if you cut down the trees.
(I canceled my Master subscription after 3 annual payments. If WotC makes luxurious amends, I will renew, otherwise, maybe the DNDBeyond devs can get my money in a side-gig of theirs?)
With that logic, they have no reason or incentive to change. Why change for the better if people still abandon in droves? Lose/lose in that situation.
Support good business choices. If they go back to OGL 1.0a, then nothing has changed and support can continue. What if they try stuff in the future? Easy, vote with your wallet again.
Except this HAS happened before.
4th ed tried the exact same thing. But instead, they wrote a whole new license for it called the GSL. 4th was designed around the idea of having a VTT that we never got because it was received so badly that they stopped production of it. People forget that. Also 4th had an online character builder (which was terrible) that you had to pay a monthly fee to access. It was called DnD Insider. 10 dollars a month if I recall.
So does this ring a bell?
New rules to replace the OGL Wanting a VTT of their own (announced in August) Subscription-based service (Bought DnD Beyond)
this has all happened before and 4th ed sold poorly. They went back to the drawing board, brought back the OGL for 5th and it became a success again, the moment they had market dominance, we now get this crap. So obviously they didn't learn the first time. They don't deserve another chance.
It rings a bell, yes. It's exactly what I'm saying though. If they make good decisions, support that. Bad ones, punish them. If you only punish and continue to punish no matter what, they have no incentive to change what-so-ever.
4e was indeed an absolute mess, and people punished them for it.
5e was great at first but now we're seeing a massive decline of quality over the past.. 3 or so years now? Punish them, especially for this most recent trash they're trying to push with the OGL 2.0.
But if they scrap it, start making good content again, start working on DDB again and improve upon it (tag system, please fix it, been an absolute mess since implementation, only gets worse with each new book they add as tags change but only on some things.), and if they stop trying to wring the customer, they should be supported.
Granted, at this point I don't believe they'll do that, but if they DID then it'd be fine to support it. That's all I'm saying. Wanting them to change for the better but to not support them after gives them no reason to actually do better. If anything it only makes them want to squeeze more out of people.
With that logic, they have no reason or incentive to change. Why change for the better if people still abandon in droves? Lose/lose in that situation.
Support good business choices. If they go back to OGL 1.0a, then nothing has changed and support can continue. What if they try stuff in the future? Easy, vote with your wallet again.
Except this HAS happened before.
4th ed tried the exact same thing. But instead, they wrote a whole new license for it called the GSL. 4th was designed around the idea of having a VTT that we never got because it was received so badly that they stopped production of it. People forget that. Also 4th had an online character builder (which was terrible) that you had to pay a monthly fee to access. It was called DnD Insider. 10 dollars a month if I recall.
So does this ring a bell?
New rules to replace the OGL Wanting a VTT of their own (announced in August) Subscription-based service (Bought DnD Beyond)
this has all happened before and 4th ed sold poorly. They went back to the drawing board, brought back the OGL for 5th and it became a success again, the moment they had market dominance, we now get this crap. So obviously they didn't learn the first time. They don't deserve another chance.
It rings a bell, yes. It's exactly what I'm saying though. If they make good decisions, support that. Bad ones, punish them. If you only punish and continue to punish no matter what, they have no incentive to change what-so-ever.
4e was indeed an absolute mess, and people punished them for it.
5e was great at first but now we're seeing a massive decline of quality over the past.. 3 or so years now? Punish them, especially for this most recent trash they're trying to push with the OGL 2.0.
But if they scrap it, start making good content again, start working on DDB again and improve upon it (tag system, please fix it, been an absolute mess since implementation, only gets worse with each new book they add as tags change but only on some things.), and if they stop trying to wring the customer, they should be supported.
Granted, at this point I don't believe they'll do that, but if they DID then it'd be fine to support it. That's all I'm saying. Wanting them to change for the better but to not support them after gives them no reason to actually do better. If anything it only makes them want to squeeze more out of people.
WotC do bad, no money. WotC do good, money.
Simples.
Thats what i plan on doing. if they have no reason to do better they wont. so if when they release the new ogl if its good i will resubscribe
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Like many a thread here, I will be partying ways with DnD Beyond over the issues with the OGL and lack of communications from wizards of the coast.
I could cite the document that was leaked and lists the many reasons why trying to change the OGL is bad or how corporate greed is behind this but really that's not the core of what's wrong. The most telling to me is Wizard's silence and unresponsive nature to this matter, it flat out shows they either don't care about the customer or they were blind to what the reaction would be. Either way, it shows being out of touch with us as customers and the third party comminute around DnD.
I've been a paid member of this service since it launched and bought nearly every sourcebook on top of owning most of the hardcovers for my real-life table on top of being an avid player far before 5th came out. But congratulations wizards, in a matter of a few days you have soured my entire love for your game I've enjoyed for over 25 years.
I don't regret my time playing the game and none reading this should feel the same. Remember the fun with your friends and the stories you told together that made you laugh and cry together. Treasure them, I know I will. What I do regret is that I have supported a company that could even possibly entertain the idea of treating their loyal player base like this and expecting to get away with it. To everyone leaving or thinking of leaving and reading this, don't come back. Even if they change their tune, even if they do a 180 and beg for forgiveness. Move to another system, don't let them think it's okay to try something like this and then backtrack. I will not be back, Wizards and DnD Beyond will not be getting my money ever again and I will find a new system to show and get my players excited for.
I wish I was a content creator or some big influencer. I'm not, I'm just a DM who used to run a small home table and now runs small online games for friends. I urge anyone who reads this to speak up to the content creators. Tell them to move away, don't look back. Tell them this is not the content you want to see anymore. We watch them for the humor and stories they bring, this can happen in any system. It doesn't have to be DnD.
Goodbye DnD. I'll remember the fun and leave the Mountain Dew & Cheetos
You can delete your account here - if you don't plan on coming back -
https://dndbeyond-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=6858238817684
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
I likewise canceled my subscription and have no desire to reactivate it as long as they current course. Even if they do, i will have to think long and hard.
I don't need to delete my account. Like it or not I've paid for books and material on this site and while I may never use 5th again at the table. That doesn't mean I can't use the things I've paid for as reference material for whatever else I decide to run. I will not be re-subbing and I will not be buying new books. As far as the site is concerned this account is dead.
Don't. Coming back even if they were to change course just proves they can try again later. Hell, they tried this with 4th ed and tried to get away from the OGL back then. It didn't work out well for them. They didn't learn their lesson then, why would they learn it now?
With that logic, they have no reason or incentive to change. Why change for the better if people still abandon in droves? Lose/lose in that situation.
Support good business choices. If they go back to OGL 1.0a, then nothing has changed and support can continue. What if they try stuff in the future? Easy, vote with your wallet again.
Ah, well when ye say goodbye D&D in your original post, it certain sounds like you have no intention of using anything. And even with the above as far as the site is concerned this account is dead. You'd have to log in to use the content ye purchased, so... the account wouldn't really be dead. You'd still be using it.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Except this HAS happened before.
4th ed tried the exact same thing. But instead, they wrote a whole new license for it called the GSL. 4th was designed around the idea of having a VTT that we never got because it was received so badly that they stopped production of it. People forget that. Also 4th had an online character builder (which was terrible) that you had to pay a monthly fee to access. It was called DnD Insider. 10 dollars a month if I recall.
So does this ring a bell?
New rules to replace the OGL
Wanting a VTT of their own (announced in August)
Subscription-based service (Bought DnD Beyond)
this has all happened before and 4th ed sold poorly. They went back to the drawing board, brought back the OGL for 5th and it became a success again, the moment they had market dominance, we now get this crap. So obviously they didn't learn the first time. They don't deserve another chance.
42 here and I know how you feel. Have hope, that you will find something you will like just as much and there will be new systems coming out now to combat this debacle wizards has created. Piazo, Kobold Press, and MCDM all have made commitments to putting out a new system. Though none of those are going to see the light of day for a little bit still. The GSL was a power move that no one liked but it didn't touch the OGL. This 1.1 OGL is a betrayal of trust that people need to understand cannot be tolerated.
Another 47yo :)
I really do not understand how am industry leader, the one that created the industry, kills the thing that made the industry.
Before 2000 we remember how small dnd was, and other rpg's were much smaller. This thing with the OGL let creative people like us to make a living out of their hobby. It made people happy! (Not us 3, but way too many people.)
Attempting to take away the dream job out of so many people's lives is ... let's say "not nice".
Also, there is a Venn diagram out there with 2 groups of people. People who buy wotc products and people who aspire to make their dnd creativity their dream job (not just the ones that accomplished it, but the ones who aspire to it too.) I cannot imagine that it is a negligible common area.
This move is turning an industry leader into just another video game developer with a cool idea and huge IP.... Marvel and DC made it an industry because they were loved and they took in their creatives, make them household names and took care of the fans.
You cannot rake in the leaves if you cut down the trees.
Take a look at my homebrew world https://dnd-world.com
I am a Career Coach, with a passion for RPG! Up to supporting new ventures or renewal/rebranding, and I am setting up a free group coaching thing, open for all here.
(I canceled my Master subscription after 3 annual payments. If WotC makes luxurious amends, I will renew, otherwise, maybe the DNDBeyond devs can get my money in a side-gig of theirs?)
It rings a bell, yes. It's exactly what I'm saying though.
If they make good decisions, support that. Bad ones, punish them. If you only punish and continue to punish no matter what, they have no incentive to change what-so-ever.
4e was indeed an absolute mess, and people punished them for it.
5e was great at first but now we're seeing a massive decline of quality over the past.. 3 or so years now? Punish them, especially for this most recent trash they're trying to push with the OGL 2.0.
But if they scrap it, start making good content again, start working on DDB again and improve upon it (tag system, please fix it, been an absolute mess since implementation, only gets worse with each new book they add as tags change but only on some things.), and if they stop trying to wring the customer, they should be supported.
Granted, at this point I don't believe they'll do that, but if they DID then it'd be fine to support it. That's all I'm saying. Wanting them to change for the better but to not support them after gives them no reason to actually do better. If anything it only makes them want to squeeze more out of people.
WotC do bad, no money.
WotC do good, money.
Simples.
Thats what i plan on doing. if they have no reason to do better they wont. so if when they release the new ogl if its good i will resubscribe