The 2024 material has been out for SEVERAL months and core warlock features and options on the sight still don't work! Warlocks still can't pick non-updated invocations from 2014 and they several of the 2024 invocations aren't even working right. Why is updated Agonizing blast not working with any cantrip? You also can't select any cantrip for eldritch spear to apply to. Programmers or WOTC can we get an update on wtf is happening??
In a previous post under the Agonizing Blast thread, I made a couple software developer comments on this subject using the terms 'kludge', 'SNAFU' and 'SUSFU'. Scribing a character sheet using Microsoft Excel will take longer but the choices you make will be yours and not the choices of a faceless coder.
Agree, and this is incredibly annoying. The new classes have been out for — what? 7 months already? — how about fixing invocations so they work properly? Backwards compatible… right?
Apparently, the source code for a Warlock's Eldritch invocations is still mired in the 2014 rule set and trying to evolve an Invocation like Agonizing Blast so that it will operate PROPERLY under both the 2014 and the 2024 rule sets, is proving to be a quagmire worthy of inclusion in a version of Tomb of Annihilation. (Veteran software developers like myself often have real life horror tales of being enmeshed in information systems that feel like being in a battle to the death against both Asmodeus and Cthuhlu while you are armed only a plain, non enchanted dagger.) I hope this is not the case but......
Agree, and this is incredibly annoying. The new classes have been out for — what? 7 months already? — how about fixing invocations so they work properly? Backwards compatible… right?
This isn't about backwards compatibility. It's a feature whose effect is the same as something that's been working just fine for the arcana cleric. The only difference is that the 2024 agonizing blast applies to just a single cantrip chosen by the player rather than every class cantrip, and apparently that detail is too complicated for dndbeyond to handle.
Apparently, the source code for a Warlock's Eldritch invocations is still mired in the 2014 rule set and trying to evolve an Invocation like Agonizing Blast so that it will operate PROPERLY under both the 2014 and the 2024 rule sets, is proving to be a quagmire worthy of inclusion in a version of Tomb of Annihilation. (Veteran software developers like myself often have real life horror tales of being enmeshed in information systems that feel like being in a battle to the death against both Asmodeus and Cthuhlu while you are armed only a plain, non enchanted dagger.) I hope this is not the case but......
At some point, given all these descriptions of "why it can't be done", the site is basically effectively needing a complete rewrite. It can't be that bad.
At some point, given all these descriptions of "why it can't be done", the site is basically effectively needing a complete rewrite. It can't be that bad.
Yes, yes it can.
The limitations of homebrew give us a window on the kinds of assumptions and hard-coding they did at the start, and they're not ideal.
But a rewrite of the basic abstraction layer without breaking all the existing stuff is vastly harder than bringing up a completely new site from scratch would be. (And that's a non-trivial amount of work, don't get. me wrong.)
Apparently, the source code for a Warlock's Eldritch invocations is still mired in the 2014 rule set and trying to evolve an Invocation like Agonizing Blast so that it will operate PROPERLY under both the 2014 and the 2024 rule sets, is proving to be a quagmire worthy of inclusion in a version of Tomb of Annihilation. (Veteran software developers like myself often have real life horror tales of being enmeshed in information systems that feel like being in a battle to the death against both Asmodeus and Cthuhlu while you are armed only a plain, non enchanted dagger.) I hope this is not the case but......
At some point, given all these descriptions of "why it can't be done", the site is basically effectively needing a complete rewrite. It can't be that bad.
Think of it like cable management under your desk. You start out simple; a PC with a power cable, a monitor with a power cable and an HDMI lead, and a wireless keyboard and mouse. Then you add a USB headset. And a webcam. And then a USB hub with a charging cable for your phone. Then you move over from a wireless keyboard to a wired mechanical one. Fast forward a year or two and now you're running 10 different power cables, data cables back and forth, various peripherals, a 3d printer, a couple of raspberry pi's for home automation and who knows what. It's an absolute mess. You now can't add anything new without a serious headache. You have reached the point where you really you should unplug everything, straighten out all the cables, replace some of those 2.0 USB A to Micro with USB C 3.0 and do some aggressive cable management. But there's a problem; you don't have the time. You need your computer for work and want to be able to use it during the weekend. It's your home media server and you're also running a home automation server. There will never be a good time to reorganize your cables so you keep putting it off and each time you do, the problem gets a tiny bit worse.
Now imagine instead of one desks worth of computers, it's a thousand.
And everyone is using them, 24/7.
And some of them are not wired up in any way you understand. Is this person powering their monitor by PoE? Is that even possible? Why does this person have a rack-mount server on their desk?
That's what legacy code is like. As someone else once wisely described it, it's like trying to rebuild the engine on a car while the car is still moving. It's like Speed except there are a thousand busses.
tl;dr - It can be done, and it probably should be done, but there's no way it won't be the biggest pain in the ass ever, and there's no guarantee you'll come out the other side in a better state than you went in.
tl;dr - It can be done, and it probably should be done, but there's no way it won't be the biggest pain in the ass ever, and there's no guarantee you'll come out the other side in a better state than you went in.
To expand on the cable management analogy, in order to fix it, you pretty much have to set up a new set of desks, then one day, pick up all the hardware at once and put it on the new desks, and just hope most of the cables plug neatly in and it all keeps working.
It's not impossible they're working on DDB 2.0 in the background. (I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible.) But we won't see it until it's ready for public testing in preparation for the big day when they convert the databases and everything breaks. (And, by "everything", I mean "less than 1% of stuff", but that's still a lot of stuff.
Can you imagine what it'd be like if they managed to magically fix every single thing behind the scenes but it broke every single homebrew that was using some jank workaround or kludge?
Or even if it didn't but people now had to remake all their homebrew to use the new, right way of doing it?
If you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, doesn't make sense to pay to be damned when you can be damned for free.
The 2024 material has been out for SEVERAL months and core warlock features and options on the sight still don't work! Warlocks still can't pick non-updated invocations from 2014 and they several of the 2024 invocations aren't even working right. Why is updated Agonizing blast not working with any cantrip? You also can't select any cantrip for eldritch spear to apply to. Programmers or WOTC can we get an update on wtf is happening??
In a previous post under the Agonizing Blast thread, I made a couple software developer comments on this subject using the terms 'kludge', 'SNAFU' and 'SUSFU'. Scribing a character sheet using Microsoft Excel will take longer but the choices you make will be yours and not the choices of a faceless coder.
Agree, and this is incredibly annoying. The new classes have been out for — what? 7 months already? — how about fixing invocations so they work properly? Backwards compatible… right?
Apparently, the source code for a Warlock's Eldritch invocations is still mired in the 2014 rule set and trying to evolve an Invocation like Agonizing Blast so that it will operate PROPERLY under both the 2014 and the 2024 rule sets, is proving to be a quagmire worthy of inclusion in a version of Tomb of Annihilation. (Veteran software developers like myself often have real life horror tales of being enmeshed in information systems that feel like being in a battle to the death against both Asmodeus and Cthuhlu while you are armed only a plain, non enchanted dagger.) I hope this is not the case but......
This isn't about backwards compatibility. It's a feature whose effect is the same as something that's been working just fine for the arcana cleric. The only difference is that the 2024 agonizing blast applies to just a single cantrip chosen by the player rather than every class cantrip, and apparently that detail is too complicated for dndbeyond to handle.
At some point, given all these descriptions of "why it can't be done", the site is basically effectively needing a complete rewrite. It can't be that bad.
Yes, yes it can.
The limitations of homebrew give us a window on the kinds of assumptions and hard-coding they did at the start, and they're not ideal.
But a rewrite of the basic abstraction layer without breaking all the existing stuff is vastly harder than bringing up a completely new site from scratch would be. (And that's a non-trivial amount of work, don't get. me wrong.)
Think of it like cable management under your desk. You start out simple; a PC with a power cable, a monitor with a power cable and an HDMI lead, and a wireless keyboard and mouse. Then you add a USB headset. And a webcam. And then a USB hub with a charging cable for your phone. Then you move over from a wireless keyboard to a wired mechanical one. Fast forward a year or two and now you're running 10 different power cables, data cables back and forth, various peripherals, a 3d printer, a couple of raspberry pi's for home automation and who knows what. It's an absolute mess. You now can't add anything new without a serious headache. You have reached the point where you really you should unplug everything, straighten out all the cables, replace some of those 2.0 USB A to Micro with USB C 3.0 and do some aggressive cable management. But there's a problem; you don't have the time. You need your computer for work and want to be able to use it during the weekend. It's your home media server and you're also running a home automation server. There will never be a good time to reorganize your cables so you keep putting it off and each time you do, the problem gets a tiny bit worse.
Now imagine instead of one desks worth of computers, it's a thousand.
And everyone is using them, 24/7.
And some of them are not wired up in any way you understand. Is this person powering their monitor by PoE? Is that even possible? Why does this person have a rack-mount server on their desk?
That's what legacy code is like. As someone else once wisely described it, it's like trying to rebuild the engine on a car while the car is still moving. It's like Speed except there are a thousand busses.
tl;dr - It can be done, and it probably should be done, but there's no way it won't be the biggest pain in the ass ever, and there's no guarantee you'll come out the other side in a better state than you went in.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
To expand on the cable management analogy, in order to fix it, you pretty much have to set up a new set of desks, then one day, pick up all the hardware at once and put it on the new desks, and just hope most of the cables plug neatly in and it all keeps working.
It's not impossible they're working on DDB 2.0 in the background. (I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible.) But we won't see it until it's ready for public testing in preparation for the big day when they convert the databases and everything breaks. (And, by "everything", I mean "less than 1% of stuff", but that's still a lot of stuff.
Can you imagine what it'd be like if they managed to magically fix every single thing behind the scenes but it broke every single homebrew that was using some jank workaround or kludge?
Or even if it didn't but people now had to remake all their homebrew to use the new, right way of doing it?
If you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, doesn't make sense to pay to be damned when you can be damned for free.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here