hi, so I'm wondering if the devs can make it so multiple subclasses can be picked in the character sheet/creation. I want this for some homebrewed character that simply has 2 (or more) subclasses. the creation menu will only allow the player to choose one. I tried to use your homebrew system to just merge them but I can't figure it out. I think the home brew system should be made a little simpler and more user-friendly. thanks for your time
While I agree that the homebrew system could be made more user-friendly, I am not sure allowing the modification of a fundamental balancing rule to be modified as you suggest would further DDB's plans (or WotC's for that matter).
The "scaling down" from "as many calsses as you possibly want/can" system of 3.x to the "one choice of subclass per main class" of 5e (passing through the "3-step-progression" of 4th) is a definite improvement, imho, as it makes things easier for the DM to create challenges that are appropriate for the level of difficulty the group wants. Adding the possibility of combo-ing two subclasses from the same main class can create very unbalanced characters, potentially making the game less fun for the players due to lack of appropriate challenges or for the DM due to an increased "workload" in figuring out said appropriate challenges.
(DISCLAIMER: the above is rigorously IMHO, I do not mean to tell anyone how to play, just trying to explain why in my opinion DDB might not want to do this)
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
If you really wanted to allow this just homebrew a subclass that combines the abilities of both.
Make a copy of the first one so you can see what they created by checking out all the modifiers in its own window.
then open up a second window and make another homebrew subclass based on the other abilities. Move the information from the first to the second.
I would also add a dummy character and attach the subclass to it so you can make sure everything works correctly.
I'm not specifically recommending doing it just letting you know it can be done. If for some reason your players wanted extra powerful heroes. A for instance might be super violent deadly Dark Sun type world.
would you possibly walk me through this step by step? I was going to use the homebrew system I just can't figure it out.
thank you for your responses, i appreciate the different points of view. i would like to note i have only played 5e.
as for why, I think there should be some more variety, in some (many) cases only being able to use one subclass doesn't make sense. ex. let's use a monk, his subclasses are more or less some form of martial arts. now there is no reason that a character cant learn(and master) more than one different kind of martial art. just look at modern out of game martial art as an example MMA is a combination of many martial styles, with many fighters having master 2-3 different kinds of fighting (then hybridizing a little bit). now to take this a little further, I can make a monk a wizard if I want to(not advisable but you can), a wizard is a completely different school of thought, practice, and training. they are polar opposites but a character can learn it no problem if they want to, but the monk can't learn a second kind of martial art that has a similar thought, practice, and training??? another favorite troupe i like is a sorcerer born from 2 sorcerer parents with 2 different bloodlines... or the perfectionist wizard trying to learn all the magic that he can...a samurai turned mercenary (battle master), or a mercenary turned champion... i can keep going but logically it should be a thing since it makes sense and adds flavor.
balance can be an issue for sure, but to be fair, most classes seem to have 1-2 very powerful subclasses that beat the rest anyways. i would also like to note that have multiple sub classes could be a reward for being a pure character type. ultimately though, my purposes are for homebrew style games which the dm can simply make harder if the characters are to strong or impose some other type of penalty. so it would be a nice feature, anyone playing by the book type games simply doesn't need to use it, and it could also be a way to see if lots of people like to add a second class to there characters potentially causing woc to update their rules. this is just candor of course.
i do see this being a little issue for say warlocks or clerics. well, warlock could potentially have to 2 beings fighting for his soul, little iffy but could make for some great playing.
I most definitely see your point, and it is perfectly fine to use such a system in a home game. My reply was more intended as an explanation as to why this might not see the light as an official feature.
There are a lot of very cool combos possible, as you pointed out, but I feel it would also make character progression a bit "complicated", as there would be levels where the character suddenly has a huge jump in power (since subclasses from the same class all get their features at the same levels).
It might be interesting to see how a "pick-and-choose" variant might work... at the appropriate level for each class you choose two subclasses, and decide which feature from which subclass you want to learn from the two you chose. Straight-class characters should be ultra-specialised individuals, so as you would need to forego something when multiclassing, it would stand to reason that even when you "split" your focus in one single class among two subclasses you need to chose which subclass to focus on at any given improvement. Of course this would have some limitation, as in, for example, you cannot take one feature if you do not already have a prerequisite one (like the additional maneuvers from the Battle-Master if you do not already have Superiority dice, be it from choosing the 2rd level BM feature or from a feat).
This way the overall "power level" of the character should remain roughly the same, albeit with some very powerful combination being possible.
This would certainly be more complicated to code here in DDB, as it would be a matter of creating A LOT of possible combination of classes with multi-choice features, but in a home game it should be pretty straightforward to implement.
Just food for thought :)
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
The short answer is: As long as it is not an option allowed by the 5e rulebooks, it will not be a feature of DDB. (I don't speak for DDB, but I imagine this would be their answer)
Creating a hybrid subclass isnt to hard. Just create a copy of whatever subclasses have the features you want to combine (so you can see all the modifiers and options of the subclass), use 1 as your template and create the features you want from the other subclasses at the levels you want them to be learned. Try to make sure it is balanced (work with your DM). And do NOT publish it. It does not have to be published to be used in your campaign.
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hi, so I'm wondering if the devs can make it so multiple subclasses can be picked in the character sheet/creation. I want this for some homebrewed character that simply has 2 (or more) subclasses. the creation menu will only allow the player to choose one. I tried to use your homebrew system to just merge them but I can't figure it out. I think the home brew system should be made a little simpler and more user-friendly. thanks for your time
While I agree that the homebrew system could be made more user-friendly, I am not sure allowing the modification of a fundamental balancing rule to be modified as you suggest would further DDB's plans (or WotC's for that matter).
The "scaling down" from "as many calsses as you possibly want/can" system of 3.x to the "one choice of subclass per main class" of 5e (passing through the "3-step-progression" of 4th) is a definite improvement, imho, as it makes things easier for the DM to create challenges that are appropriate for the level of difficulty the group wants.
Adding the possibility of combo-ing two subclasses from the same main class can create very unbalanced characters, potentially making the game less fun for the players due to lack of appropriate challenges or for the DM due to an increased "workload" in figuring out said appropriate challenges.
(DISCLAIMER: the above is rigorously IMHO, I do not mean to tell anyone how to play, just trying to explain why in my opinion DDB might not want to do this)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
If you really wanted to allow this just homebrew a subclass that combines the abilities of both.
Make a copy of the first one so you can see what they created by checking out all the modifiers in its own window.
then open up a second window and make another homebrew subclass based on the other abilities. Move the information from the first to the second.
I would also add a dummy character and attach the subclass to it so you can make sure everything works correctly.
I'm not specifically recommending doing it just letting you know it can be done. If for some reason your players wanted extra powerful heroes. A for instance might be super violent deadly Dark Sun type world.
would you possibly walk me through this step by step? I was going to use the homebrew system I just can't figure it out.
thank you for your responses, i appreciate the different points of view. i would like to note i have only played 5e.
as for why, I think there should be some more variety, in some (many) cases only being able to use one subclass doesn't make sense. ex. let's use a monk, his subclasses are more or less some form of martial arts. now there is no reason that a character cant learn(and master) more than one different kind of martial art. just look at modern out of game martial art as an example MMA is a combination of many martial styles, with many fighters having master 2-3 different kinds of fighting (then hybridizing a little bit). now to take this a little further, I can make a monk a wizard if I want to(not advisable but you can), a wizard is a completely different school of thought, practice, and training. they are polar opposites but a character can learn it no problem if they want to, but the monk can't learn a second kind of martial art that has a similar thought, practice, and training??? another favorite troupe i like is a sorcerer born from 2 sorcerer parents with 2 different bloodlines... or the perfectionist wizard trying to learn all the magic that he can...a samurai turned mercenary (battle master), or a mercenary turned champion... i can keep going but logically it should be a thing since it makes sense and adds flavor.
balance can be an issue for sure, but to be fair, most classes seem to have 1-2 very powerful subclasses that beat the rest anyways. i would also like to note that have multiple sub classes could be a reward for being a pure character type. ultimately though, my purposes are for homebrew style games which the dm can simply make harder if the characters are to strong or impose some other type of penalty. so it would be a nice feature, anyone playing by the book type games simply doesn't need to use it, and it could also be a way to see if lots of people like to add a second class to there characters potentially causing woc to update their rules. this is just candor of course.
i do see this being a little issue for say warlocks or clerics. well, warlock could potentially have to 2 beings fighting for his soul, little iffy but could make for some great playing.
I most definitely see your point, and it is perfectly fine to use such a system in a home game. My reply was more intended as an explanation as to why this might not see the light as an official feature.
There are a lot of very cool combos possible, as you pointed out, but I feel it would also make character progression a bit "complicated", as there would be levels where the character suddenly has a huge jump in power (since subclasses from the same class all get their features at the same levels).
It might be interesting to see how a "pick-and-choose" variant might work... at the appropriate level for each class you choose two subclasses, and decide which feature from which subclass you want to learn from the two you chose.
Straight-class characters should be ultra-specialised individuals, so as you would need to forego something when multiclassing, it would stand to reason that even when you "split" your focus in one single class among two subclasses you need to chose which subclass to focus on at any given improvement.
Of course this would have some limitation, as in, for example, you cannot take one feature if you do not already have a prerequisite one (like the additional maneuvers from the Battle-Master if you do not already have Superiority dice, be it from choosing the 2rd level BM feature or from a feat).
This way the overall "power level" of the character should remain roughly the same, albeit with some very powerful combination being possible.
This would certainly be more complicated to code here in DDB, as it would be a matter of creating A LOT of possible combination of classes with multi-choice features, but in a home game it should be pretty straightforward to implement.
Just food for thought :)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
The short answer is: As long as it is not an option allowed by the 5e rulebooks, it will not be a feature of DDB. (I don't speak for DDB, but I imagine this would be their answer)
Creating a hybrid subclass isnt to hard. Just create a copy of whatever subclasses have the features you want to combine (so you can see all the modifiers and options of the subclass), use 1 as your template and create the features you want from the other subclasses at the levels you want them to be learned. Try to make sure it is balanced (work with your DM). And do NOT publish it. It does not have to be published to be used in your campaign.