Not necessarily, I just feel that if I spent this money on the physical version of the book, that there should be some way to redeem it, or at least get some content that I have for it, because I have the content I need in the book, but I don’t want to spend another 25$ to buy the online one, just for convenience of making a character online.
So you are saying that the buyers of the physical books should have more rights than the ones deciding to go only digital?
That sounds pretty double standard to me.
Also, as you speak about "convenience of making a character online", why should WotC, who is simply licensing his content to Curse, be concerned on something that is by your own admission a commodity? If they are not the ones owning the tools and the website, nor they are imposing you to use it, why should they interfere with another company's business?
Not necessarily, I just feel that if I spent this money on the physical version of the book, that there should be some way to redeem it, or at least get some content that I have for it, because I have the content I need in the book, but I don’t want to spend another 25$ to buy the online one, just for convenience of making a character online.
If you don't want to spend the money and have the physical books then just homebrew what you need for free. Problem solved.
Not necessarily, I just feel that if I spent this money on the physical version of the book, that there should be some way to redeem it, or at least get some content that I have for it, because I have the content I need in the book, but I don’t want to spend another 25$ to buy the online one, just for convenience of making a character online.
Actually, there is one way that i can think of for you to redeem it. Sell that physical book and then use the money to buy digital. Otherwise, you can pay an additional $9.99 for the compendium version which is just a digital book. but if you want to use the cool tools, well, that will cost the $29.99 (unless you can find a discount code) or buy piecemeal what you need or save it all and homebrew it for your own use.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
"Just for the convenience of making a character online" is pretty telling, in a couple of ways: it views that aspect as being fundamentally not worth paying for (or not paying very much for it, at least) and it's also a very reductive view of what DDB actually is/does. If you really believe the former, DDB is not for you. As for the latter, there are a lot of good threads here (including this one) that do a great just of elucidating what DDB is and does and why it's worth paying for. I recommend reading them.
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Not necessarily, I just feel that if I spent this money on the physical version of the book, that there should be some way to redeem it, or at least get some content that I have for it, because I have the content I need in the book, but I don’t want to spend another 25$ to buy the online one, just for convenience of making a character online.
As others have said, you don't have to rebuy for the 'books' to get the tools. Or you can build them for free for personal use (if you want to go to the trouble). I think it's a pretty reasonable option.
I have the content I need in the book, but I don’t want to spend another 25$ to buy the online one, just for convenience of making a character online.
Then don't? No one is forcing you to spend more, unless you believe, for some reason, that using the DDB character builder is required to play D&D? Do you honestly believe you were promised a free online character builder when you bought the physical book? SMH.
"Hey, I already bought the car, I don't want to spend another $xx to put gas in it every week, or pay for a license, or pay taxes to help support the building and maintenance of the roads I drive on."
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I just think it kinda sucks that I have to pay for all the content I already have.
You don't have to pay for the content you already have. The book you bought is yours. You can read it whenever you want. You paid for it already. Done.
DDB is a different thing. DDB is not obligated to give it to you for free. WotC is not obligated to give it to you for free.
If you bought one physical PHB, does that mean the store should give you a second physical PHB for free because you paid for the "content" already?
So much entitlement.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Would I go to amazon for a hard copy of the PHB after unlocking the digital PHB content through DDB? No. That's ridiculous. But it doesn't matter.
I do exactly that. I've played since 1e. Almost none of my books prior to 4e are in good condition because I used them so much. With 5e, I love having a stack of shiny books in excellent condition that I can refer to for pleasure rather than need. And I buy the special covers which will eventually be collector's items. So no, not ridiculous, not ridiculous at all.
Really? How huge a portion? What are the demographics of this portion? Are they all middle-income and higher? Low income? From what countries? What age brackets?
Enquiring minds need to know these things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
The issue is that a huge portion of your consumer base feels screwed over. Arguing with that is not going to solve the issue.
"Huge" is subjective here considering the site has been more successful than originally anticipated (forget the exact quotes from devs but this is the case). Just because a portion of the population is more vocal, doesn't make it large.
This is the situation: Your product is designed for recreational enjoyment. You need to get paid. In order to get paid, a barrier is created to the enjoyment. The barrier is: requiring a purchase to unlock content.
What's happening in this situation: You have entered into an encounter with your customers. Roll persuation to convince the customers that their purchase is worth you removing the barrier. The issue you're running into is not that you can't justify your prices - it's that your CHA is -4.
In order to fix this issue, one approach is to shift the value you're putting on content vs. the service DDB actually provides (the website, digitalizing all of the content, UI, etc.) To do that, you would need to go from:
WOTC content valued at x USD each (single purchases)
DDB platform and tool valued at y USD /mo (subscription - 2 tiers)
to:
DDB platform and tool valued at x+y USD /mo (distributed across a few tiers of subscription plans with various TOOL unlocks - all content should be unlocked at the first tier, prices of all tiers determined such that WOTC gets their cut and DDB gets what it deserves for the work they put into creating the tool).
This is a narrative issue, not a mechanics issue. Come on, folks, it's about emotional buy-in - there have to be some DMs working for DDB!
The core of this argument relies on the devaluation of content. If a subscription were to offer all of the WOTC content as well as current features at, let's say, $10/month. In order for DDB to break even with that purchase, that user would have to stay subscribed for 3 years straight, and every single time that a new book came out, it would add another 3 months onto that. Essentially, they'd be offering the Legendary bundle for $10. Yes, it expires in a month, but let's say a campaign only needed 3 to complete an adventure, then stops paying after they're done. That means that they paid $30 for the adventure and all the core materials. This model would just lose WOTC and DDB money in the long run. Not to mention that a subscription that is based off of text content can just have that content copied while the subscription is active.
This is the situation: Your product is designed for recreational enjoyment. You need to get paid. In order to get paid, a barrier is created to the enjoyment. The barrier is: requiring a purchase to unlock content.
What's happening in this situation: You have entered into an encounter with your customers. Roll persuation to convince the customers that their purchase is worth you removing the barrier. The issue you're running into is not that you can't justify your prices - it's that your CHA is -4.
In order to fix this issue, one approach is to shift the value you're putting on content vs. the service DDB actually provides (the website, digitalizing all of the content, UI, etc.) To do that, you would need to go from:
WOTC content valued at x USD each (single purchases)
DDB platform and tool valued at y USD /mo (subscription - 2 tiers)
to:
DDB platform and tool valued at x+y USD /mo (distributed across a few tiers of subscription plans with various TOOL unlocks - all content should be unlocked at the first tier, prices of all tiers determined such that WOTC gets their cut and DDB gets what it deserves for the work they put into creating the tool).
This is a narrative issue, not a mechanics issue. Come on, folks, it's about emotional buy-in - there have to be some DMs working for DDB!
The core of this argument relies on the devaluation of content. If a subscription were to offer all of the WOTC content as well as current features at, let's say, $10/month. In order for DDB to break even with that purchase, that user would have to stay subscribed for 3 years straight, and every single time that a new book came out, it would add another 3 months onto that. Essentially, they'd be offering the Legendary bundle for $10. Yes, it expires in a month, but let's say a campaign only needed 3 to complete an adventure, then stops paying after they're done. That means that they paid $30 for the adventure and all the core materials. This model would just lose WOTC and DDB money in the long run. Not to mention that a subscription that is based off of text content can just have that content copied while the subscription is active.
I think this is completely off base. I'm sure Curse would love to offer a content subscription option, if WotC would let them, they would make a lot more money that way. This is because, eventually, users will end up spending more with a subscription than buying content outright.
To start, your assumption that Curse would offer an unlimited content subscription for $10/month is way off. Much more likely that it would be priced at $20/month, (with possible reductions for annual or semi-annual payments).
Your logic about Curse's break even point is also a little off. You're using a user's break even point as Curse's. This isn't the case. Yes, it would take a user 3 years to reach the point where they're paying more than they would had they purchased the content outright, but it's disingenuous to say that Curse doesn't break even until this point. They break even at that point compared to purchasing, but they would certainly be making a profit long before that point.
Now there is certainly a minimum subscription length that would represent Curse's break-even point, but it would be far shorter than 3 years, probably on the order of 4-6 months for the average subscription length, possibly even less, since DDB would likely have more customers that way.
Make no mistake. A content subscription is always, always a better deal for the seller in the long term. It's better in the short term for the buyer, but because you're trading equity (getting perpetual use of the product) for full access the product now, but that will catch up with you eventually
I think this is completely off base. I'm sure Curse would love to offer a content subscription option, if WotC would let them, they would make a lot more money that way. This is because, eventually, users will end up spending more with a subscription than buying content outright.
Your logic about Curse's break even point is also a little off. You're using a user's break even point as Curse's. This isn't the case. Yes, it would take a user 3 years to reach the point where they're paying more than they would had they purchased the content outright, but it's disingenuous to say that Curse doesn't break even until this point. They break even at that point compared to purchasing, but they would certainly be making a profit long before that point.
In order for Curse to make the same amount of money off of an individual user, yes, that's the break even point, if not longer. $10/month for x amount of months would need to equal the cost of the Legendary bundle (~$360) + approximately 3 source books per year ($25.5 each ($30 minus the discount)). so 10x = 360 + (76.5 * (x/12)). That's 8.275 years to break even on the cost for that user. Even doubling the price of the subscription results in 2.2 years being that point.
To start, your assumption that Curse would offer an unlimited content subscription for $10/month is way off. Much more likely that it would be priced at $20/month, (with possible reductions for annual or semi-annual payments).
The assumption of $10/month is off for what they would realistically charge, but it is not off for what I've seen suggested by people in this very thread (and others). Many of the suggestions have been for "A few bucks more than master tier". 2.5 times the price wouldn't be "a few bucks more".
Now there is certainly a minimum subscription length that would represent Curse's break-even point, but it would be far shorter than 3 years, probably on the order of 4-6 months for the average subscription length, possibly even less, since DDB would likely have more customers that way.
Given my previous point, I find it unlikely that a $20/month price point would garner as many customers as you think it would. It would also lose them sales on additional source books released on the platform.
Make no mistake. A content subscription is always, always a better deal for the seller in the long term. It's better in the short term for the buyer, but because you're trading equity (getting perpetual use of the product) for full access the product now, but that will catch up with you eventually
MoviePass begs to differ. Price point factors heavily into that, and I doubt enough people would jump at paying twice the cost of Netflix for D&D source books, and lowering that price point would make it unprofitable.
EDIT: Also, those timeframes get even worse if you factor in a master tier subscription the right side of that equation.
I think this is completely off base. I'm sure Curse would love to offer a content subscription option, if WotC would let them, they would make a lot more money that way. This is because, eventually, users will end up spending more with a subscription than buying content outright.
Your logic about Curse's break even point is also a little off. You're using a user's break even point as Curse's. This isn't the case. Yes, it would take a user 3 years to reach the point where they're paying more than they would had they purchased the content outright, but it's disingenuous to say that Curse doesn't break even until this point. They break even at that point compared to purchasing, but they would certainly be making a profit long before that point.
In order for Curse to make the same amount of money off of an individual user, yes, that's the break even point, if not longer. $10/month for x amount of months would need to equal the cost of the Legendary bundle (~$360) + approximately 3 source books per year ($25.5 each ($30 minus the discount)). so 10x = 360 + (76.5 * (x/12)). That's 8.275 years to break even on the cost for that user. Even doubling the price of the subscription results in 2.2 years being that point.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was making. Your original post implied that Curse wouldn't realize profit at this point, which is not true.
To start, your assumption that Curse would offer an unlimited content subscription for $10/month is way off. Much more likely that it would be priced at $20/month, (with possible reductions for annual or semi-annual payments).
The assumption of $10/month is off for what they would realistically charge, but it is not off for what I've seen suggested by people in this very thread (and others). Many of the suggestions have been for "A few bucks more than master tier". 2.5 times the price wouldn't be "a few bucks more".
Sure, but there is zero chance Curse would offer a subscription at that price. If you're simply explaining why Curse won't do that, then I have no disagreement. I'm only pointing out that a subscription would cost the user more, long-term. We seem to be arguing at cross-purposes.
It's also worth noting that a content subscription would very likely be incompatible with content sharing.
Now there is certainly a minimum subscription length that would represent Curse's break-even point, but it would be far shorter than 3 years, probably on the order of 4-6 months for the average subscription length, possibly even less, since DDB would likely have more customers that way.
Given my previous point, I find it unlikely that a $20/month price point would garner as many customers as you think it would. It would also lose them sales on additional source books released on the platform.
You're assuming that they replace the purchase option. Which I am not. Savvy customers would continue to purchase content, because it is a better deal for them.
Make no mistake. A content subscription is always, always a better deal for the seller in the long term. It's better in the short term for the buyer, but because you're trading equity (getting perpetual use of the product) for full access the product now, but that will catch up with you eventually
MoviePass begs to differ. Price point factors heavily into that, and I doubt enough people would jump at paying twice the cost of Netflix for D&D source books, and lowering that price point would make it unprofitable.
EDIT: Also, those timeframes get even worse if you factor in a master tier subscription the right side of that equation.
Of course price point factors heavily into whether a subscription is a good deal or not. My point is that any price point that Curse puts a subscription is going to be better, long term, for Curse than it will be for users, because the annual cost, would need to be more than the purchase cost for a typical year's worth of books.
We're essentially saying the same thing. a $10/month subscription isn't viable for Curse.
We're essentially saying the same thing. a $10/month subscription isn't viable for Curse.
Yup, wholeheartedly agree.
I think where we differ is on if $20/month would be viable. It would be potentially worth it for Curse, but I doubt the interest would be that large for that price point. Personally, I think the model they use currently works perfectly fine, mainly because you can buy content piece-meal and only buy the things you want/need.
Hello, I have a general question. So I have purchased Xanthar's guide a few months back but I've noticed while I was planning to purchase sword coast's. It appears that I will have to pay for it in full price. I was wondering sense allot of the content has been spread out into Xanthar's anyway why is it that I would have to pay full price?
Hello, I have a general question. So I have purchased Xanthar's guide a few months back but I've noticed while I was planning to purchase sword coast's. It appears that I will have to pay for it in full price. I was wondering sense allot of the content has been spread out into Xanthar's anyway why is it that I would have to pay full price?
Just buy the pieces that you are missing.
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I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
I think this is completely off base. I'm sure Curse would love to offer a content subscription option, if WotC would let them, they would make a lot more money that way. This is because, eventually, users will end up spending more with a subscription than buying content outright.
Your logic about Curse's break even point is also a little off. You're using a user's break even point as Curse's. This isn't the case. Yes, it would take a user 3 years to reach the point where they're paying more than they would had they purchased the content outright, but it's disingenuous to say that Curse doesn't break even until this point. They break even at that point compared to purchasing, but they would certainly be making a profit long before that point.
In order for Curse to make the same amount of money off of an individual user, yes, that's the break even point, if not longer. $10/month for x amount of months would need to equal the cost of the Legendary bundle (~$360) + approximately 3 source books per year ($25.5 each ($30 minus the discount)). so 10x = 360 + (76.5 * (x/12)). That's 8.275 years to break even on the cost for that user. Even doubling the price of the subscription results in 2.2 years being that point.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was making. Your original post implied that Curse wouldn't realize profit at this point, which is not true.
While say that Curse may see a profit earlier, I believe what he is point out is that it would take roughly X years to reach the same ROI on a subscription model as they do upfront per a person on the Sales model. Plus they get to do cool things since they have the money now like sponsor Crit Role and revamp stuff where as they would have to wait till they 1) paid off WotC, 2) Paid off Staff for the work they did/are doing (and that could stretch the budget some ,months), 3) pay the bills to keep things running, then 4) do cool things.
So while a $20 subscription sounds great, Curse would be losing money as they still have to pay for all those license fee's up front so you can have each and every book available. And if people only subscribe for a month, they would lose all that money (not sure if they could resell the same subscription so they would only pay net new each month, but guessing not). this would not be a sustainable business model. WotC proved that when they did it themselves with 4e. and that is why they outsourced the digital version this time when the opportunity came along. I could totally see people doing this for only a month to see how it worked or not at all as $20 a month is a lot for some folks.
Only option i could see is that you pay a one time fee (licensing), and then a subscription fee to access the content, then you would have to build in licensing fee's for the new releases or take a hit (like it would be when they release 2 books instead of just one.
Furthermore, while the subscription model may hold some appeal to those who want everything and want it only for a period of time, it has little appeal to those who don't need access to everything and/or are in it for the long haul. I don't need most of the adventures. I'm on a limited budget that accommodates neither a subscription nor buying all the non-adventure books. So far I've spent just under $60 on content, plus I used Christmas money for a one year hero tier sub. Even if an "all content access sub" were $10/month, which I think is unrealistic, I would spend more in a year under that model than I have now. I can't afford $10/month, let alone 20. I much prefer the current model. I love that I can just buy what I need, not even whole books. The only things I lose if I stop subbing are unlimited characters, no ads, and the ability to add published homebrew to my collection. The content I've bought us mine for as long as DDB exists. I have no way of knowing how many others here are in similar boats, but however many there are, most if not all of us would be lost customers if the pricing model moved to a subscribe for content one. That affects Curse's bottom line, too, especially if there are more of us than there are of those who won't buy in now but would under a sub for content model.
Plus, I presume that a sub for content model wouldn't include content sharing. Content sharing is a real boon to regular groups to play together and even to temporary groups. It lets those with the budget to go all in (or more in) and the inclination to be generous share with those of more limited means. My husband, who is a mere bystander (no DDB account) is astounded at that feature. He is convinced that it is losing Curse sales. About half of what I spent on content was because I temporarily lost the benefit of content sharing in a campaign. Not knowing it would be temporary, I bought some things I needed access to for a different campaign. Up until then, I'd had access to everything (outside if the character builder) without having paid most of it.
So you are saying that the buyers of the physical books should have more rights than the ones deciding to go only digital?
That sounds pretty double standard to me.
Also, as you speak about "convenience of making a character online", why should WotC, who is simply licensing his content to Curse, be concerned on something that is by your own admission a commodity? If they are not the ones owning the tools and the website, nor they are imposing you to use it, why should they interfere with another company's business?
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
If you don't want to spend the money and have the physical books then just homebrew what you need for free. Problem solved.
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Actually, there is one way that i can think of for you to redeem it. Sell that physical book and then use the money to buy digital. Otherwise, you can pay an additional $9.99 for the compendium version which is just a digital book. but if you want to use the cool tools, well, that will cost the $29.99 (unless you can find a discount code) or buy piecemeal what you need or save it all and homebrew it for your own use.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
"Just for the convenience of making a character online" is pretty telling, in a couple of ways: it views that aspect as being fundamentally not worth paying for (or not paying very much for it, at least) and it's also a very reductive view of what DDB actually is/does. If you really believe the former, DDB is not for you. As for the latter, there are a lot of good threads here (including this one) that do a great just of elucidating what DDB is and does and why it's worth paying for. I recommend reading them.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I just think it kinda sucks that I have to pay for all the content I already have.
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D&D Beyond FoundersHi fantastic3172,
please take a look at the start of this thread and the subsequent discussion on the subject.
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Check out this thread for purchasing options: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/13989-a-buyers-guide-for-dnd-beyond
As others have said, you don't have to rebuy for the 'books' to get the tools. Or you can build them for free for personal use (if you want to go to the trouble). I think it's a pretty reasonable option.
Then don't? No one is forcing you to spend more, unless you believe, for some reason, that using the DDB character builder is required to play D&D? Do you honestly believe you were promised a free online character builder when you bought the physical book? SMH.
"Hey, I already bought the car, I don't want to spend another $xx to put gas in it every week, or pay for a license, or pay taxes to help support the building and maintenance of the roads I drive on."
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
You don't have to pay for the content you already have. The book you bought is yours. You can read it whenever you want. You paid for it already. Done.
DDB is a different thing. DDB is not obligated to give it to you for free. WotC is not obligated to give it to you for free.
If you bought one physical PHB, does that mean the store should give you a second physical PHB for free because you paid for the "content" already?
So much entitlement.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
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Moderator1) If you want the online copy, but don't want to pay twice, sell the physical copy.
2) If you want both copies, then buy both copies.
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I do exactly that. I've played since 1e. Almost none of my books prior to 4e are in good condition because I used them so much. With 5e, I love having a stack of shiny books in excellent condition that I can refer to for pleasure rather than need. And I buy the special covers which will eventually be collector's items. So no, not ridiculous, not ridiculous at all.
Really? How huge a portion? What are the demographics of this portion? Are they all middle-income and higher? Low income? From what countries? What age brackets?
Enquiring minds need to know these things.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
"Huge" is subjective here considering the site has been more successful than originally anticipated (forget the exact quotes from devs but this is the case). Just because a portion of the population is more vocal, doesn't make it large.
The core of this argument relies on the devaluation of content. If a subscription were to offer all of the WOTC content as well as current features at, let's say, $10/month. In order for DDB to break even with that purchase, that user would have to stay subscribed for 3 years straight, and every single time that a new book came out, it would add another 3 months onto that. Essentially, they'd be offering the Legendary bundle for $10. Yes, it expires in a month, but let's say a campaign only needed 3 to complete an adventure, then stops paying after they're done. That means that they paid $30 for the adventure and all the core materials. This model would just lose WOTC and DDB money in the long run. Not to mention that a subscription that is based off of text content can just have that content copied while the subscription is active.
I think this is completely off base. I'm sure Curse would love to offer a content subscription option, if WotC would let them, they would make a lot more money that way. This is because, eventually, users will end up spending more with a subscription than buying content outright.
To start, your assumption that Curse would offer an unlimited content subscription for $10/month is way off. Much more likely that it would be priced at $20/month, (with possible reductions for annual or semi-annual payments).
Your logic about Curse's break even point is also a little off. You're using a user's break even point as Curse's. This isn't the case. Yes, it would take a user 3 years to reach the point where they're paying more than they would had they purchased the content outright, but it's disingenuous to say that Curse doesn't break even until this point. They break even at that point compared to purchasing, but they would certainly be making a profit long before that point.
Now there is certainly a minimum subscription length that would represent Curse's break-even point, but it would be far shorter than 3 years, probably on the order of 4-6 months for the average subscription length, possibly even less, since DDB would likely have more customers that way.
Make no mistake. A content subscription is always, always a better deal for the seller in the long term. It's better in the short term for the buyer, but because you're trading equity (getting perpetual use of the product) for full access the product now, but that will catch up with you eventually
In order for Curse to make the same amount of money off of an individual user, yes, that's the break even point, if not longer. $10/month for x amount of months would need to equal the cost of the Legendary bundle (~$360) + approximately 3 source books per year ($25.5 each ($30 minus the discount)). so 10x = 360 + (76.5 * (x/12)). That's 8.275 years to break even on the cost for that user. Even doubling the price of the subscription results in 2.2 years being that point.
The assumption of $10/month is off for what they would realistically charge, but it is not off for what I've seen suggested by people in this very thread (and others). Many of the suggestions have been for "A few bucks more than master tier". 2.5 times the price wouldn't be "a few bucks more".
Given my previous point, I find it unlikely that a $20/month price point would garner as many customers as you think it would. It would also lose them sales on additional source books released on the platform.
MoviePass begs to differ. Price point factors heavily into that, and I doubt enough people would jump at paying twice the cost of Netflix for D&D source books, and lowering that price point would make it unprofitable.
EDIT: Also, those timeframes get even worse if you factor in a master tier subscription the right side of that equation.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was making. Your original post implied that Curse wouldn't realize profit at this point, which is not true.
Sure, but there is zero chance Curse would offer a subscription at that price. If you're simply explaining why Curse won't do that, then I have no disagreement. I'm only pointing out that a subscription would cost the user more, long-term. We seem to be arguing at cross-purposes.
It's also worth noting that a content subscription would very likely be incompatible with content sharing.
You're assuming that they replace the purchase option. Which I am not. Savvy customers would continue to purchase content, because it is a better deal for them.
Of course price point factors heavily into whether a subscription is a good deal or not. My point is that any price point that Curse puts a subscription is going to be better, long term, for Curse than it will be for users, because the annual cost, would need to be more than the purchase cost for a typical year's worth of books.
We're essentially saying the same thing. a $10/month subscription isn't viable for Curse.
Yup, wholeheartedly agree.
I think where we differ is on if $20/month would be viable. It would be potentially worth it for Curse, but I doubt the interest would be that large for that price point. Personally, I think the model they use currently works perfectly fine, mainly because you can buy content piece-meal and only buy the things you want/need.
Hello, I have a general question. So I have purchased Xanthar's guide a few months back but I've noticed while I was planning to purchase sword coast's. It appears that I will have to pay for it in full price. I was wondering sense allot of the content has been spread out into Xanthar's anyway why is it that I would have to pay full price?
Just buy the pieces that you are missing.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
While say that Curse may see a profit earlier, I believe what he is point out is that it would take roughly X years to reach the same ROI on a subscription model as they do upfront per a person on the Sales model. Plus they get to do cool things since they have the money now like sponsor Crit Role and revamp stuff where as they would have to wait till they 1) paid off WotC, 2) Paid off Staff for the work they did/are doing (and that could stretch the budget some ,months), 3) pay the bills to keep things running, then 4) do cool things.
So while a $20 subscription sounds great, Curse would be losing money as they still have to pay for all those license fee's up front so you can have each and every book available. And if people only subscribe for a month, they would lose all that money (not sure if they could resell the same subscription so they would only pay net new each month, but guessing not). this would not be a sustainable business model. WotC proved that when they did it themselves with 4e. and that is why they outsourced the digital version this time when the opportunity came along. I could totally see people doing this for only a month to see how it worked or not at all as $20 a month is a lot for some folks.
Only option i could see is that you pay a one time fee (licensing), and then a subscription fee to access the content, then you would have to build in licensing fee's for the new releases or take a hit (like it would be when they release 2 books instead of just one.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Furthermore, while the subscription model may hold some appeal to those who want everything and want it only for a period of time, it has little appeal to those who don't need access to everything and/or are in it for the long haul. I don't need most of the adventures. I'm on a limited budget that accommodates neither a subscription nor buying all the non-adventure books. So far I've spent just under $60 on content, plus I used Christmas money for a one year hero tier sub. Even if an "all content access sub" were $10/month, which I think is unrealistic, I would spend more in a year under that model than I have now. I can't afford $10/month, let alone 20. I much prefer the current model. I love that I can just buy what I need, not even whole books. The only things I lose if I stop subbing are unlimited characters, no ads, and the ability to add published homebrew to my collection. The content I've bought us mine for as long as DDB exists. I have no way of knowing how many others here are in similar boats, but however many there are, most if not all of us would be lost customers if the pricing model moved to a subscribe for content one. That affects Curse's bottom line, too, especially if there are more of us than there are of those who won't buy in now but would under a sub for content model.
Plus, I presume that a sub for content model wouldn't include content sharing. Content sharing is a real boon to regular groups to play together and even to temporary groups. It lets those with the budget to go all in (or more in) and the inclination to be generous share with those of more limited means. My husband, who is a mere bystander (no DDB account) is astounded at that feature. He is convinced that it is losing Curse sales. About half of what I spent on content was because I temporarily lost the benefit of content sharing in a campaign. Not knowing it would be temporary, I bought some things I needed access to for a different campaign. Up until then, I'd had access to everything (outside if the character builder) without having paid most of it.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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