Don’t you have to make saves vs. exhaustion after a number of rounds of combat?
That might be a house rule, I don’t know.
That's a house rule. It kinda makes sense, but doesn't. In protracted battles, it might matter, but most D&D fights are over in 30 seconds (with time to catch your breath), and any half decently adventurer would fit enough to do that. It's just not expected that you'd get into a fight long enough for it to be realistic - and to be honest, I'd have quit in boredom long before that.
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I competed at a national level as an athlete when I was young. If you spring full tilt for 100 meters, you'll be winded (around 10 seconds). If you try to keep the same speed for 200 meters, you'll be utterly exhausted. To the point that you risk tripping and falling before you reach the finish line.
I did at one time train with an actual olympic athlete though, and he did this: He sprinted the 200, then continued around the track (meaning another 200), then sprinting 200 again. Still not at the speed he ran the 100 meters, but ... man, just looking at that stuff was exhausting.
So there's a bit of a leap from me to Linford Christie. Still, getting back to the analogy, a character wouldn't be penalised from running all-out, round after round, at full encumbrance. Which is kinda nuts. On the other hand, high excertion at levels below sprinting isn't so bad, even when somewhat protracted. Play some racket ball, for instance. Each point may well be from like 5-15 seconds, with minimal pause to serve again. Of course, playing it in heavy armor and with a weeks supplies on your back might change things.
There's such a thing as too much realism =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I competed at a national level as an athlete when I was young. If you spring full tilt for 100 meters, you'll be winded (around 10 seconds). If you try to keep the same speed for 200 meters, you'll be utterly exhausted. To the point that you risk tripping and falling before you reach the finish line.
I did at one time train with an actual olympic athlete though, and he did this: He sprinted the 200, then continued around the track (meaning another 200), then sprinting 200 again. Still not at the speed he ran the 100 meters, but ... man, just looking at that stuff was exhausting.
So there's a bit of a leap from me to Linford Christie. Still, getting back to the analogy, a character wouldn't be penalised from running all-out, round after round, at full encumbrance. Which is kinda nuts. On the other hand, high excertion at levels below sprinting isn't so bad, even when somewhat protracted. Play some racket ball, for instance. Each point may well be from like 5-15 seconds, with minimal pause to serve again. Of course, playing it in heavy armor and with a weeks supplies on your back might change things.
There's such a thing as too much realism =D
Unless you are literally dashing every round, which almost never happens, you are not going full tilt though. Plus this is a setting where creatures (incl PC's) fully heal simply from 9 hours of sleep.
Keeping that in mind, exhaustion is an extreme condition. You only recover one level per long rest and with escalating penalties.
Based on the exhaustion rules, even if you picked up a level after only every 2 rounds (every 12 seconds rather than 10), you would be dead if you tried to sprint for 72 seconds. You would not get there though because you would have lost your ability to move after 60 seconds and your speed would have been halved after 24 seconds.
Meanwhile, that is only 60' per 6 seconds, or 10' per second. Here in reality, Usain Bolt's record for the 200m sprint, from the 2008 Olympics, was 19.3 seconds, or over 3 times as fast as a dashing human in 5e. He wasn't on the equivalent of 'disadvantage on all ability checks' for 24 hours after the race.
When in a *chase,* you can take the dash action a number of times equal to your con modifier + 1. After that, you must make a constitution check dc 10 (+1 each additional time) when you want to dash or suffer a level of exhaustion. You can recover from all the exhaustion gained in this way after taking a short or long rest.
The house rule.does not require exhaustion checks right away. In fact, almost all combat can be competed before it becomes an issue. The checks don’t become an issue until something like 10*Con mod rounds. I can’t remember the exact rule, but it is something crazy like that. Sorry if that wasn’t clear earlier.
So, typically, it only comes into effect in certain set piece action scenes - big battles and battles where characters don’t get 6 seconds to rest.
Something like this aarocockra vs. Tarrasque combat would be an example.
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
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Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
That’s all well and good but talking RAW, this is how it works. Everything’s combat speed in 5e is a bit slow (to make sure battle maps don’t have to be massive) which also represents the ability to turn on a dime, as it is really difficult to make an immediate 180 degree turn while sprinting. In 3.5, there was the run option on your turn (as well as hustle and other movement actions) that multiplied your speed by 4, but you could only run in a generally straight line.
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
That’s all well and good but talking RAW, this is how it works. Everything’s combat speed in 5e is a bit slow (to make sure battle maps don’t have to be massive) which also represents the ability to turn on a dime, as it is really difficult to make an immediate 180 degree turn while sprinting. In 3.5, there was the run option on your turn (as well as hustle and other movement actions) that multiplied your speed by 4, but you could only run in a generally straight line.
I'm not saying it is too slow, it's just not unrealistic for adventurers to maintain that pace for 18 seconds or so.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
That’s all well and good but talking RAW, this is how it works. Everything’s combat speed in 5e is a bit slow (to make sure battle maps don’t have to be massive) which also represents the ability to turn on a dime, as it is really difficult to make an immediate 180 degree turn while sprinting. In 3.5, there was the run option on your turn (as well as hustle and other movement actions) that multiplied your speed by 4, but you could only run in a generally straight line.
There is NO momentum in 5e. No matter your velocity, you do not automatically continue (any direction other than down) the next turn without actively declaring it so. Ships and other vehicles need an action each round to command them to move or they do not. A spell that propels someone X distance does so and no more. Kinetic physics are very different than in real life
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
That’s all well and good but talking RAW, this is how it works. Everything’s combat speed in 5e is a bit slow (to make sure battle maps don’t have to be massive) which also represents the ability to turn on a dime, as it is really difficult to make an immediate 180 degree turn while sprinting. In 3.5, there was the run option on your turn (as well as hustle and other movement actions) that multiplied your speed by 4, but you could only run in a generally straight line.
There is NO momentum in 5e. No matter your velocity, you do not automatically continue (any direction other than down) the next turn without actively declaring it so. Ships and other vehicles need an action each round to command them to move or they do not. A spell that propels someone X distance does so and no more. Kinetic physics are very different than in real life
I disagree, because of the jumping rules. If there were no momentum, a 10 foot running start wouldn’t increase how far or high you could leap.
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
That’s all well and good but talking RAW, this is how it works. Everything’s combat speed in 5e is a bit slow (to make sure battle maps don’t have to be massive) which also represents the ability to turn on a dime, as it is really difficult to make an immediate 180 degree turn while sprinting. In 3.5, there was the run option on your turn (as well as hustle and other movement actions) that multiplied your speed by 4, but you could only run in a generally straight line.
There is NO momentum in 5e. No matter your velocity, you do not automatically continue (any direction other than down) the next turn without actively declaring it so. Ships and other vehicles need an action each round to command them to move or they do not. A spell that propels someone X distance does so and no more. Kinetic physics are very different than in real life
I disagree, because of the jumping rules. If there were no momentum, a 10 foot running start wouldn’t increase how far or high you could leap.
That is a specific exception, though and is part of the jump. But I stand corrected and hereby amend to "Momentum does not work normally in 5e, in most cases not working at all"
If you wanted to have the options for players to move faster (and you don’t care about the size of a battlefield) I’d add an option to the dash action to allow you to increase your speed 3 times, rather than once, but you must move in a straight line while moving that turn.
Honestly, I think movement speed is a problem, because while running speed is unrealistically low, weapon range is unrealistically high, and this contributes to ranged attacks being excessively dominant in 5e. I'd probably bring back charge attacks (from 3e/4e) and dramatically reduce the range of longer range attacks and spells.
I agree, ranged attacks are far too effective in 5e. They’re trying to juggle making a realistic combat simulation while also having it be fun, which leaves both sides unhappy with the result.
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
You are talking about sport. That’s apples and oranges when compared to life and death.
You are talking about sport. That’s apples and oranges when compared to life and death.
Adrenaline can easily make you push your limits, resulting in fatigue or injury, but 60'/turn (6.8 mph) is simply not pushing the limits of anyone who might reasonably decide to become an adventurer, that's 13.2 minutes for a 1.5 mile jog.
Honestly, I think movement speed is a problem, because while running speed is unrealistically low, weapon range is unrealistically high, and this contributes to ranged attacks being excessively dominant in 5e. I'd probably bring back charge attacks (from 3e/4e) and dramatically reduce the range of longer range attacks and spells.
I agree, ranged attacks are far too effective in 5e. They’re trying to juggle making a realistic combat simulation while also having it be fun, which leaves both sides unhappy with the result.
This is getting off topic, but real life longbow, effective range is out to 1000'. In game, only 600' and that is assuming the enemy have longbows, which is almost never. There is also an assumption in there that the encounter is that far out, which seems rarely the case in most campaigns (because PC's are more likely to have those longbows).
Don’t you have to make saves vs. exhaustion after a number of rounds of combat?
That might be a house rule, I don’t know.
That's a house rule. It kinda makes sense, but doesn't. In protracted battles, it might matter, but most D&D fights are over in 30 seconds (with time to catch your breath), and any half decently adventurer would fit enough to do that. It's just not expected that you'd get into a fight long enough for it to be realistic - and to be honest, I'd have quit in boredom long before that.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If it is a house rule, it was created by our GM who has spent some time on an active battlefield in Afghanistan.
Does he realize they are only 6 second rounds in 5e?
It a little bit of both, and a lot of neither.
I competed at a national level as an athlete when I was young. If you spring full tilt for 100 meters, you'll be winded (around 10 seconds). If you try to keep the same speed for 200 meters, you'll be utterly exhausted. To the point that you risk tripping and falling before you reach the finish line.
I did at one time train with an actual olympic athlete though, and he did this: He sprinted the 200, then continued around the track (meaning another 200), then sprinting 200 again. Still not at the speed he ran the 100 meters, but ... man, just looking at that stuff was exhausting.
So there's a bit of a leap from me to Linford Christie. Still, getting back to the analogy, a character wouldn't be penalised from running all-out, round after round, at full encumbrance. Which is kinda nuts. On the other hand, high excertion at levels below sprinting isn't so bad, even when somewhat protracted. Play some racket ball, for instance. Each point may well be from like 5-15 seconds, with minimal pause to serve again. Of course, playing it in heavy armor and with a weeks supplies on your back might change things.
There's such a thing as too much realism =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Unless you are literally dashing every round, which almost never happens, you are not going full tilt though. Plus this is a setting where creatures (incl PC's) fully heal simply from 9 hours of sleep.
Keeping that in mind, exhaustion is an extreme condition. You only recover one level per long rest and with escalating penalties.
Based on the exhaustion rules, even if you picked up a level after only every 2 rounds (every 12 seconds rather than 10), you would be dead if you tried to sprint for 72 seconds. You would not get there though because you would have lost your ability to move after 60 seconds and your speed would have been halved after 24 seconds.
Meanwhile, that is only 60' per 6 seconds, or 10' per second. Here in reality, Usain Bolt's record for the 200m sprint, from the 2008 Olympics, was 19.3 seconds, or over 3 times as fast as a dashing human in 5e. He wasn't on the equivalent of 'disadvantage on all ability checks' for 24 hours after the race.
When in a *chase,* you can take the dash action a number of times equal to your con modifier + 1. After that, you must make a constitution check dc 10 (+1 each additional time) when you want to dash or suffer a level of exhaustion. You can recover from all the exhaustion gained in this way after taking a short or long rest.
The house rule.does not require exhaustion checks right away. In fact, almost all combat can be competed before it becomes an issue. The checks don’t become an issue until something like 10*Con mod rounds. I can’t remember the exact rule, but it is something crazy like that. Sorry if that wasn’t clear earlier.
So, typically, it only comes into effect in certain set piece action scenes - big battles and battles where characters don’t get 6 seconds to rest.
Something like this aarocockra vs. Tarrasque combat would be an example.
Sword fights would commonly last minutes. In fencing (not quite the ideal comparison, but it's good enough), you're expected to last for three 3-minute rounds with a minute's break between each (so nine minutes of fighting in eleven minutes). In comparison, most D&D fights are over in 18 seconds. While I probably would ask for checks in a fight over hundreds or thousands of rounds...but any D&D fight where you should expect a check for exhaustion like that has some serious funkiness going on and is likely to cause a party implosion from boredom. Even a single fencing round would cause major issues.
As for sprinting...
30ft speed, means 5ft per second. 5x60x60 = 18,000ft/hour or about 3.5 miles and hour, which is a somewhat comfortable all-day pace. Even a dash is then only 7mph...jogging is, on average, 6mph, so it's a fast jog or a slow run (top speed is 10-15mph, towards the higher end for our adventurers). Running at that pace for a couple of rounds shouldn't incur Exhaustion. I can do it, I'm not very fit but I can do it and be fully recovered within minutes (certainly no more than an hour), even with heavy packs - and I have a lot I could improve on, and would have if I were living an adventurous lifestyle back then.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That’s all well and good but talking RAW, this is how it works. Everything’s combat speed in 5e is a bit slow (to make sure battle maps don’t have to be massive) which also represents the ability to turn on a dime, as it is really difficult to make an immediate 180 degree turn while sprinting. In 3.5, there was the run option on your turn (as well as hustle and other movement actions) that multiplied your speed by 4, but you could only run in a generally straight line.
I'm not saying it is too slow, it's just not unrealistic for adventurers to maintain that pace for 18 seconds or so.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There is NO momentum in 5e. No matter your velocity, you do not automatically continue (any direction other than down) the next turn without actively declaring it so. Ships and other vehicles need an action each round to command them to move or they do not. A spell that propels someone X distance does so and no more. Kinetic physics are very different than in real life
I disagree, because of the jumping rules. If there were no momentum, a 10 foot running start wouldn’t increase how far or high you could leap.
That is a specific exception, though and is part of the jump. But I stand corrected and hereby amend to "Momentum does not work normally in 5e, in most cases not working at all"
If you wanted to have the options for players to move faster (and you don’t care about the size of a battlefield) I’d add an option to the dash action to allow you to increase your speed 3 times, rather than once, but you must move in a straight line while moving that turn.
Honestly, I think movement speed is a problem, because while running speed is unrealistically low, weapon range is unrealistically high, and this contributes to ranged attacks being excessively dominant in 5e. I'd probably bring back charge attacks (from 3e/4e) and dramatically reduce the range of longer range attacks and spells.
I agree, ranged attacks are far too effective in 5e. They’re trying to juggle making a realistic combat simulation while also having it be fun, which leaves both sides unhappy with the result.
You are talking about sport. That’s apples and oranges when compared to life and death.
Adrenaline can easily make you push your limits, resulting in fatigue or injury, but 60'/turn (6.8 mph) is simply not pushing the limits of anyone who might reasonably decide to become an adventurer, that's 13.2 minutes for a 1.5 mile jog.
This is getting off topic, but real life longbow, effective range is out to 1000'. In game, only 600' and that is assuming the enemy have longbows, which is almost never. There is also an assumption in there that the encounter is that far out, which seems rarely the case in most campaigns (because PC's are more likely to have those longbows).