The subspecies' differentiating qualities are largely cultural rather than genetic. Cultural evolution goes much faster than biological evolution.
Here's every elf and how it developed:
Eladrin: these are basically as close as you can get to the original elves while still being a playable race. All other elves are functionally Eladrin offshoots.
Sea Elves were originally Eladrin, but fell in love with swimming. This was back in the days of the elven form being mutable and constantly subject to flux. I don't think we have a canon answer as to how Sea Elves got locked into their current body shape, but basically they adopted that shape to cavort underwater, then a mysterious mystery happened, and now they can't change back.
Shadar-Kai and Drow were pledged to the "wrong" deity once upon a time, and due to at-the-time cultural differences, were magically modified into what they became. Deity fights are rough.
High and Wood elves didn't draw the short stick in their deity choice, so they're more like the Sea Elves in that they simply got locked into their current body shapes, but they were on land when it happened. The differences between the two are cultural.
Pallid Elves don't exist in main continuity, but they're the result of prolonged exposure to divine magic - you can think of them as being like Drow or Shadar-Kai, although their origin story is wildly different from either.
Mark of Shadow Elves don't exist in main continuity, and the source of their dragonmark is a setting mystery - I don't think we have an official canon answer on that. Once the mark appeared, it acted like it was at least pseudogenetic - new elves aren't born with the mark of shadow spontaneously. Instead, they're descended from mark of shadow elves.
My games have a really low number of elves, actually. Not as NPCs or anything, but just players don't often pick them. Half Elves are more common, for whatever reason.
My games have a really low number of elves, actually. Not as NPCs or anything, but just players don't often pick them. Half Elves are more common, for whatever reason.
As a general rule, half-elves are a "stronger" race than elves, although the relative balance is directly impacted by the Tasha's rules. It's normal and expected for players to be more likely to pick half-elf than elf, for the same build. By the same token, standard humans, kenku, and genasi are probably very uncommon choices for your games.
Nah, we've had Genasi and Humans (without the feat) aplenty. I actually banned the +1 feat variant human. Genuinely the half elf players were newbies when they played half elves, too... I think it's been coincidental. We've only had one Kenku and it died relatively quickly. The groups are usually more RP focused so it might be that half elves are a cool concept.
I hate them a lot but today I realised a massive weakness so now I hate them less but I think that the people who play them should know and understand that elves are imperfect and even flawed creatures:
Elves mature slower than humans and reach adulthood at age 100. They also are lazy and do things “later”(never) and so they accomplished nothing in their long life.
This means that elves are lazy and somewhat immature, making them flawed, and in turn, playable, though I won’t play one unless I have a very, very good reason to.
In one of my worlds Elves achieve a lot in there time, there was a mass calamity 2000 years ago and the Elves retained the knowledge of Magic to re teach the lesser lived races. They at as peace envoys through the land, they procreate far slower so are far less numerous and as such understand they are most at risk if warfare returns so they attempt to maintain the peace. Some become adventurers in an effort to take a more direct role in keeping peace through the land,
Being long lived dos not mean lazy, it means that someone can devote 100 years to a task or learning a skill, something a human might consider perfected an Elf can take to a higher level of understanding. It means they can have a fount of knowledge but also understand the impact a small action can have so are careful who they share with. Understanding that allowing a simple favour may come back and haunt them long after the person they are helping has died.
To say nothing of their ridiculous lifespans that require severe handwaving to make any elven PC work...
Forgive me but I don't follow why severe handwaving is required?
Elves may have ridiculously long natural lifespans, but they're just as squishy in a fight.
Well, either they learn slower because metaphysical reasons or you have to explain why even Elven adolescents are only level 1 or at least have proficiency in a ton of languages and tools (which can be learned in downtime) and/or are wealthy, having earned and saved a ton or at least better provisioned than other shorter lived races.
Or, alternatively, why Elves have not been wiped out.
Ah, I see. Fair points, though the sort of thing I'd reflect on outside of a campaign setting more than as a fireside discussion amongst the party.
I actually do play my half elf as a bit of a linguist due to various PHB and TCoE options. Makes for some fun when the DM realises my PC can actually understand the mutterings of a dwarven barkeep or a band of Underdark denizens.
No hand waving required, if all elves are rich then living in elven society would be expensive, Or elves heading out to go adventuring are going on a right of passage so they take the minimal money/equipment they can to prove themselves. It isn't exactly a proper test if you go out all Gucci'd up. Languages, why would an elf learn loads of different languages if they dont leave elven lands? Tools, again why would an elf learn lots of different tools? they might be very very good at one specific type of tool, but you have this idea they have all this extra spare time to learn to use things. They might read, write poetry, write stories. If you are that long lived then you aim to become a perfectionist at a skill.
In my worlds, I don't play elves as better than other species. Just different. Sure, they're longer lived and less easily angered than humans. But they also hold grudges for much, much longer, and they aren't very likely to fight, even to protect their allies. This leads to many seeing elves as untrustworthy or deceitful beings, rumors and superstitions about them abounding.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
In my worlds, I don't play elves as better than other species. Just different. Sure, they're longer lived and less easily angered than humans. But they also hold grudges for much, much longer, and they aren't very likely to fight, even to protect their allies. This leads to many seeing elves as untrustworthy or deceitful beings, rumors and superstitions about them abounding.
I don’t hate elves at all (I play them a lot) but I agree with TTB.
consider themselves to be superior to all other races and in turn, players.
Haughty
CHAOTIC “GOOD”
The thing that annoys me about chaotic good alignment is that people use it wrong. Lawful means that you follow honour/code/tradition/law at all costs. Chaotic is complete disregard and disrespect for honour/code/tradition/law. Good is putting others needs before your own. Evil is putting your needs before others. However, there are other circumstances that may change any of the above. Regardless, I too often see people playing chaotic good characters and acting in a way defined as chaotic neutral or chaotic evil, but even playing a chaotic good character “correctly” can annoy the party, “derail” a linear campaign or even kill a character.
The main thing that bugs me about elves is how they are a reflection of society’s unhealthy body image ideals. They are described as otherworldly beautiful because they are tall, thin, and graceful.
If they are supposed to be the ultimate of beautiful, their beauty should not reflect only a certain body type.
The main thing that bugs me about elves is how they are a reflection of society’s unhealthy body image ideals. They are described as otherworldly beautiful because they are tall, thin, and graceful.
If they are supposed to be the ultimate of beautiful, their beauty should not reflect only a certain body type.
The main thing that bugs me about elves is how they are a reflection of society’s unhealthy body image ideals. They are described as otherworldly beautiful because they are tall, thin, and graceful.
If they are supposed to be the ultimate of beautiful, their beauty should not reflect only a certain body type.
Agreed
Isn't this exactly what you are choosing as a reason to hate Elves, though? Isn't hating on slim just as bad as hating on non-slim?
Too slim is just as unhealthy for a human as too large (and that too large applies to pretty much any dimension. Giantism typically carries a ton of health problems). But these are not humans. And you are not obligated to find any given elf attractive. Or to find any given dwarf attractive. Or any given human.
I don’t hate elves. I admire them. But I also thought about @UndauntedDM’s comment and they’re right. It does promote an idealized body image.
Hot take: I don't give a damn about Tolkien's elves, or how interesting they may or may not have been. Whatever the Silmarillion is can sod itself in a corner.
Keyword: been. Because the entire fantasy fiction world has been force-feeding the archetypical Tolkienite Elf to everyone on the planet for the last billion years, and we're all sick of hearing about how pretty and graceful and ethereal and perfect and better than you Proper Elves are. Elves may have been literal demigods in Middle Earth, and had a whole huge deep rich story behind why they were so much more awesome and perfect and just super cooler than everything else.
This is D&D. This is Faerun, or Exandria, or Eberron, or Etharis, or my homebrew world, or your homebrew world. Yes, Lord of the Rings is why we have these games and these genres in the first place. Lord of the Rings is also seventy years old. It's had its time. It does not need to be the only thing anyone does anymore, and at some point elves can stop being "humanity, but better in every conceivable way" whilst dominating every facet of the fantasy where they show up.
I'm more interested in worlds where species are in contention and have reasons to either hate and fear each other or stand in solidarity with each other. Worlds where elves are the BBEGs, because their absurdly long lifespans, surreal natural aptitude for magic, and easy mastery of any skill they decide they want causes them to become decadent and cruel, enslaving and abusing the shorter-lived lesser species they see as little more than amusing monkeys. Worlds where humanity's explosive breeding and insatiable drive for growth, expansion, and conquest causes the other sapient species of the world to see them as a pestilence and constantly fight to stave off constant invasions from aggressive, hyper-imperialistic war freaks. Worlds where the old gods have been overturned and the new pantheon smote the species those old gods created - the societies of the world are made up of goblins, kobolds, lizardfolk, and other 'monstrous' species, with the ragged remnants of the PHB species have been driven into bitter seclusion within their isolated fortress cities and the sight of a human, elf, or dwarf is as unexpected and alarming as stumbling across a dragon.
I don't want more games where everybody's fighting over being the Elf so they can be the one in the party who's better than everybody else. I want games where people get inventive with this shit, where nobody is quite sure what happens next because we haven't read this book a thousand times. And that means elves get to stop being the Better'n'Yew Sues of the RPG world.
Yeah you don't see many games or whatnot trying different things with Elves than the standard. There is an old CCG called Warlord were the elves where all cursed to live incredibly short lives of 30 years and resorted to feeding sacrifices to a god to extend their lives as well as necromancy.
Hot take: I don't give a damn about Tolkien's elves, or how interesting they may or may not have been. Whatever the Silmarillion is can sod itself in a corner.
Keyword: been. Because the entire fantasy fiction world has been force-feeding the archetypical Tolkienite Elf to everyone on the planet for the last billion years, and we're all sick of hearing about how pretty and graceful and ethereal and perfect and better than you Proper Elves are. Elves may have been literal demigods in Middle Earth, and had a whole huge deep rich story behind why they were so much more awesome and perfect and just super cooler than everything else.
This is D&D. This is Faerun, or Exandria, or Eberron, or Etharis, or my homebrew world, or your homebrew world. Yes, Lord of the Rings is why we have these games and these genres in the first place. Lord of the Rings is also seventy years old. It's had its time. It does not need to be the only thing anyone does anymore, and at some point elves can stop being "humanity, but better in every conceivable way" whilst dominating every facet of the fantasy where they show up.
I'm more interested in worlds where species are in contention and have reasons to either hate and fear each other or stand in solidarity with each other. Worlds where elves are the BBEGs, because their absurdly long lifespans, surreal natural aptitude for magic, and easy mastery of any skill they decide they want causes them to become decadent and cruel, enslaving and abusing the shorter-lived lesser species they see as little more than amusing monkeys. Worlds where humanity's explosive breeding and insatiable drive for growth, expansion, and conquest causes the other sapient species of the world to see them as a pestilence and constantly fight to stave off constant invasions from aggressive, hyper-imperialistic war freaks. Worlds where the old gods have been overturned and the new pantheon smote the species those old gods created - the societies of the world are made up of goblins, kobolds, lizardfolk, and other 'monstrous' species, with the ragged remnants of the PHB species have been driven into bitter seclusion within their isolated fortress cities and the sight of a human, elf, or dwarf is as unexpected and alarming as stumbling across a dragon.
I don't want more games where everybody's fighting over being the Elf so they can be the one in the party who's better than everybody else. I want games where people get inventive with this shit, where nobody is quite sure what happens next because we haven't read this book a thousand times. And that means elves get to stop being the Better'n'Yew Sues of the RPG world.
Yeah you don't see many games or whatnot trying different things with Elves than the standard. There is an old CCG called Warlord were the elves where all cursed to live incredibly short lives of 30 years and resorted to feeding sacrifices to a god to extend their lives as well as necromancy.
Was nice to see a different take
Idk. I think you can do cool stuff with elves without destroying what makes them unique as a race (and maybe dealing with the body image issues someone else mentioned). Although for those of you who really hate them, I saw a published setting called Talislanta with the tag line “And no elves!” 😊
consider themselves to be superior to all other races and in turn, players.
Haughty
CHAOTIC “GOOD”
The thing that annoys me about chaotic good alignment is that people use it wrong. Lawful means that you follow honour/code/tradition/law at all costs. Chaotic is complete disregard and disrespect for honour/code/tradition/law. Good is putting others needs before your own. Evil is putting your needs before others. However, there are other circumstances that may change any of the above. Regardless, I too often see people playing chaotic good characters and acting in a way defined as chaotic neutral or chaotic evil, but even playing a chaotic good character “correctly” can annoy the party, “derail” a linear campaign or even kill a character.
The things that I like about elves:
Shadar-Kai
Ok in my world Elves can get fat, and can be born shorter than other elves. in fact i have one elf in my world who is so fat he has to be carried everywhere, he is decadent, almost in a roman emperor kind of way, but is not evil. He has taken the Elf love of excess to, excess.
I have a sect of elves in my world who are very caring, a lifetime of seeing the younger races come and go, seeing the suffering etc has leant them to open orphanages, or go out to help the poor and sick of society, they do not see themselves as "better" they are humble and self sacrificing.
One of my players is a Satyr, she was abandoned on the doorstep of a brothel for "reasons" and has been brought up by the Madame, an elf, the elf has had 500 years of being a concubine and escort to enhance and perfect her talent, and has taught the Satyr. However, she never stays in the same city for more than 20 years because she can't stand seeing her clients and those who work for her getting old and dying. The Satyr is 105, just reaching adulthood for her species, but already has seen a generation of humans die around her. The player has really leant into that and I have followed on from that to make it a key aspect of her "mother"
I love what Warhammer did with their elves, at the end the "Dark Elves", supposed evil elves who split away from the pure "High Elves" where proven to actually be right, there leader, a being proclaimed cursed by the gods, was actually the chosen one but, because he didn't meet the expectations of a leader, he was betrayed, once the truth came out it split Elven society.
Elves have so much scope to be more then just the things you portray, there is so much ability there to lean into that long lived aspect and have it give them a humanity and a humility. Looking at the short lived races with envy for there ability to live in the now and not concern themselves that some action they take may reverberate for 100's of years and come back to impact them 500 years from now.
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elves hate elves
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Here's every elf and how it developed:
My games have a really low number of elves, actually. Not as NPCs or anything, but just players don't often pick them. Half Elves are more common, for whatever reason.
As a general rule, half-elves are a "stronger" race than elves, although the relative balance is directly impacted by the Tasha's rules. It's normal and expected for players to be more likely to pick half-elf than elf, for the same build. By the same token, standard humans, kenku, and genasi are probably very uncommon choices for your games.
Nah, we've had Genasi and Humans (without the feat) aplenty. I actually banned the +1 feat variant human. Genuinely the half elf players were newbies when they played half elves, too... I think it's been coincidental. We've only had one Kenku and it died relatively quickly. The groups are usually more RP focused so it might be that half elves are a cool concept.
I hate them a lot but today I realised a massive weakness so now I hate them less but I think that the people who play them should know and understand that elves are imperfect and even flawed creatures:
Elves mature slower than humans and reach adulthood at age 100. They also are lazy and do things “later”(never) and so they accomplished nothing in their long life.
This means that elves are lazy and somewhat immature, making them flawed, and in turn, playable, though I won’t play one unless I have a very, very good reason to.
In one of my worlds Elves achieve a lot in there time, there was a mass calamity 2000 years ago and the Elves retained the knowledge of Magic to re teach the lesser lived races. They at as peace envoys through the land, they procreate far slower so are far less numerous and as such understand they are most at risk if warfare returns so they attempt to maintain the peace. Some become adventurers in an effort to take a more direct role in keeping peace through the land,
Being long lived dos not mean lazy, it means that someone can devote 100 years to a task or learning a skill, something a human might consider perfected an Elf can take to a higher level of understanding. It means they can have a fount of knowledge but also understand the impact a small action can have so are careful who they share with. Understanding that allowing a simple favour may come back and haunt them long after the person they are helping has died.
Forgive me but I don't follow why severe handwaving is required?
Elves may have ridiculously long natural lifespans, but they're just as squishy in a fight.
Ah, I see. Fair points, though the sort of thing I'd reflect on outside of a campaign setting more than as a fireside discussion amongst the party.
I actually do play my half elf as a bit of a linguist due to various PHB and TCoE options. Makes for some fun when the DM realises my PC can actually understand the mutterings of a dwarven barkeep or a band of Underdark denizens.
No hand waving required, if all elves are rich then living in elven society would be expensive,
Or elves heading out to go adventuring are going on a right of passage so they take the minimal money/equipment they can to prove themselves. It isn't exactly a proper test if you go out all Gucci'd up.
Languages, why would an elf learn loads of different languages if they dont leave elven lands?
Tools, again why would an elf learn lots of different tools? they might be very very good at one specific type of tool, but you have this idea they have all this extra spare time to learn to use things. They might read, write poetry, write stories. If you are that long lived then you aim to become a perfectionist at a skill.
In my worlds, I don't play elves as better than other species. Just different. Sure, they're longer lived and less easily angered than humans. But they also hold grudges for much, much longer, and they aren't very likely to fight, even to protect their allies. This leads to many seeing elves as untrustworthy or deceitful beings, rumors and superstitions about them abounding.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I don’t hate elves at all (I play them a lot) but I agree with TTB.
The things I hate about elves:
The things that I like about elves:
The main thing that bugs me about elves is how they are a reflection of society’s unhealthy body image ideals. They are described as otherworldly beautiful because they are tall, thin, and graceful.
If they are supposed to be the ultimate of beautiful, their beauty should not reflect only a certain body type.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
Agreed
I don’t hate elves. I admire them. But I also thought about @UndauntedDM’s comment and they’re right. It does promote an idealized body image.
Yeah you don't see many games or whatnot trying different things with Elves than the standard. There is an old CCG called Warlord were the elves where all cursed to live incredibly short lives of 30 years and resorted to feeding sacrifices to a god to extend their lives as well as necromancy.
Was nice to see a different take
Idk. I think you can do cool stuff with elves without destroying what makes them unique as a race (and maybe dealing with the body image issues someone else mentioned). Although for those of you who really hate them, I saw a published setting called Talislanta with the tag line “And no elves!” 😊
I would like to be able to play a short curvy elf.
Ok in my world Elves can get fat, and can be born shorter than other elves. in fact i have one elf in my world who is so fat he has to be carried everywhere, he is decadent, almost in a roman emperor kind of way, but is not evil. He has taken the Elf love of excess to, excess.
I have a sect of elves in my world who are very caring, a lifetime of seeing the younger races come and go, seeing the suffering etc has leant them to open orphanages, or go out to help the poor and sick of society, they do not see themselves as "better" they are humble and self sacrificing.
One of my players is a Satyr, she was abandoned on the doorstep of a brothel for "reasons" and has been brought up by the Madame, an elf, the elf has had 500 years of being a concubine and escort to enhance and perfect her talent, and has taught the Satyr. However, she never stays in the same city for more than 20 years because she can't stand seeing her clients and those who work for her getting old and dying. The Satyr is 105, just reaching adulthood for her species, but already has seen a generation of humans die around her. The player has really leant into that and I have followed on from that to make it a key aspect of her "mother"
I love what Warhammer did with their elves, at the end the "Dark Elves", supposed evil elves who split away from the pure "High Elves" where proven to actually be right, there leader, a being proclaimed cursed by the gods, was actually the chosen one but, because he didn't meet the expectations of a leader, he was betrayed, once the truth came out it split Elven society.
Elves have so much scope to be more then just the things you portray, there is so much ability there to lean into that long lived aspect and have it give them a humanity and a humility. Looking at the short lived races with envy for there ability to live in the now and not concern themselves that some action they take may reverberate for 100's of years and come back to impact them 500 years from now.