I feel like they left off the ability stats for SJ ships and left damage threshold to keep things simple. I would rule that any saves involving movement of the ship be based on the helm controller since they are the only person involved with movement and that yes all other things automatically fail but damage has to exceed the threshold to take affect. Example caster shoots a fireball at a ship ship auto fails but damage is below threshold nothing happens since it has immunity to all damage below threshold.
Spelljammer is the sort of setting that, when done well, is great fun; when done poorly it’s not fun. Sadly the 5e version, as is, is incomplete and so is done poorly. The saving grace is that 5e is enough like 2e that transforming the well done 2e materials into 5e is not difficult for decent home brewers. The annoying thing is that WOTC has all the 2e stuff and DIDN’T translate it into a fully done setting.
Heres the thing: I'm not arguing the Phlogistron was great so much as I am that it was better then the astral sea since the latter runs up against very real issues regarding the nature of the cosmology since it would imply that the prime material plane is more like a fractured collection of demi-planes rather then a coherent universe, to say nothing of how the astral plane has it's own sets of rules and effects.
Really though and this is the main issue with Spelljammer: it is a completely pointless setting in 5e. Like, there is effectively nothing out in wildspace or the astral sea except for horrific monsters that want to kill you and/or steal your shit. If you feel the need to get to another planet then you are better off simply utilizing a portal or possibly plane hopping then you are ever going anywhere near a spelljammer. Which is frankly amazing from a narrative standpoint because spelljammer should be this fantastical, romantic adventure that blends elements of steampunk sci-fi with high seas adventures with players engaging in various feats of daring do!
Maybe they were trying to say that each D&D setting is like its own separate island in the Astral Plane.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Think about Star Wars or Star Trek or just about any space travel game - he vast majority of action doesn’t take place out in the depths of space, it happens in systems or on the planets/moons/asteroids of the systems. Same thing in spelljammer. The astral see is deep space, mostly you just traverse it to get from one system to another. Then the action starts.one of the major problems with 5e is that they didn’t really give you a way to make up your own systems AND they didn’t give any real details on the existing systems (FR, Mystara, Eberron, Dragonlance, etc all of which was available in the 2e sources (ok not Eberron but that is available in 5e). This dual lack along with the lack of spells and items (also available in the 2e sources) is what folks are complaining about.
Think about Star Wars or Star Trek or just about any space travel game - he vast majority of action doesn’t take place out in the depths of space, it happens in systems or on the planets/moons/asteroids of the systems. Same thing in spelljammer. The astral see is deep space, mostly you just traverse it to get from one system to another. Then the action starts.one of the major problems with 5e is that they didn’t really give you a way to make up your own systems AND they didn’t give any real details on the existing systems (FR, Mystara, Eberron, Dragonlance, etc all of which was available in the 2e sources (ok not Eberron but that is available in 5e). This dual lack along with the lack of spells and items (also available in the 2e sources) is what folks are complaining about.
Igonring how large scale battles with vehicles are a corner stone of every Star wars movie, the issue here is that there simply isn't any real information on... basically anything in spelljammer; we get like one port and that's it. Some people will talk about the elf system or doomspace but neither of those are relevent long term.
And quite frankly, if I'm paying considerably more for a product that is supposed to be a campaign setting then previous installments I expect to be able to do a hell of a lot more with it then run a single module that is frankly a rough draft.
In my current 2ish year campaign I have home-brewed Spelljamming from the original material and some good DMs guild stuff. I didn't have high hopes for 5e Spelljammer, but it didn't even live up to that. For me it's very little bang for the buck, and the Spelljamming itself is severely lacking.
As the last few years direction of D&D from WotC doesn't fit me and my table, we will also move on to other games for a couple of years. First out is Savage Pathfinder in a couple of months when the current 5e campaign wraps up. After that we have Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4e with The Enemy Within and Call of Cthulhus Masks of Nyarlathotep in the queue.
I made a gem Dragonborn Circle of the Stars druid knowing that we’ll be moving into spelljammer around the end of the year. It’s niche, but it works well.
Then why are the rules obviously incomplete and why is it called a setting if it has no setting in it... and why should we be spending $70 for an incomplete book
It had everything needed to run a Spelljammer campaign. The fact you want more doesn’t make it incomplete.
It has Everything? Really? Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
Then why are the rules obviously incomplete and why is it called a setting if it has no setting in it... and why should we be spending $70 for an incomplete book
It had everything needed to run a Spelljammer campaign. The fact you want more doesn’t make it incomplete.
It has Everything? Really? Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
You need that to run a campaign?
Me? no. But that is because I own both 3rd party and the old 2e Spelljammers content that actually had that information. But new DMs? They most likely will. Seeing as if they want use anything besides the Rock of Bral or go beyond the Light of Xaryxis included adventure there is a suspicious dearth of content.
Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
I have seen many games with systems for star system generation. They all had the shared feature of being means of generating vast quantities of random boring stuff.
Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
I have seen many games with systems for star system generation. They all had the shared feature of being means of generating vast quantities of random boring stuff.
And I can bet I found those exact same systems great sources for inspiration for spring boarding into interesting homebrew lore.
Then I guess you never use any official content ever, because you don't need any of it to play a game...
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Then why are the rules obviously incomplete and why is it called a setting if it has no setting in it... and why should we be spending $70 for an incomplete book
It had everything needed to run a Spelljammer campaign. The fact you want more doesn’t make it incomplete.
It has Everything? Really? Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
You need that to run a campaign?
Me? no. But that is because I own both 3rd party and the old 2e Spelljammers content that actually had that information. But new DMs? They most likely will. Seeing as if they want use anything besides the Rock of Bral or go beyond the Light of Xaryxis included adventure there is a suspicious dearth of content.
DM'd every version except 4th. Still not understanding why a DM needs anything official to simply make things up. The implication is that the game cannot be played without buying some pre-existing setting, or without having a bunch of random tables to randomly generate a setting.
repeat after me... As a genius I am not qualified to say it does not take a genius to do this.
Just because YOU personally do not NEED assistance to get your imagination going does not mean the mechanic is useless or unnecessary. I cannot speak for anyone else but I have found need for those tools on occasion.
When I heard "three hardback books" I was not expecting a total of only 192 pages. There's more cover stock in this boxed set than paper, and if you handed me an blank sheet of paper from one of these books I might have identified it as cardstock.
Good for collectibility, I suppose, not so great for content. The books are beautiful, no doubt, but there's a lot of flash here and not a lot of substance.
It's pretty underwhelming, especially considering that we're unlikely to see more Spelljammer material, based on the way D&D5 is realized. I would have liked to see more ship types, more ship variations and custom fittings, even more ship variations and custom fittings, more locations, more factions... and yeah, if not a random generator, at least better guidance for newer dungeon masters looking to design their own interplanetary setting. It's a weird beast.
It's meh in a lot of the ways the seafaring stuff in Ghosts was meh. It's... sufficient. *shrugs*
The good news is that all of the old Spelljammer stuff is available on DMsGuild.com! Huzzah! Buy it, read it, love it, use it! Just ignore all that nonsense about the phlogiston.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Then why are the rules obviously incomplete and why is it called a setting if it has no setting in it... and why should we be spending $70 for an incomplete book
It had everything needed to run a Spelljammer campaign. The fact you want more doesn’t make it incomplete.
It has Everything? Really? Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
Christ I'd be happy if there were rules for anything in space; how big are systems, how long does it take to travel between them, what kind of stellar phenomenon exist in space, why does anyone want to go into space when it seems to be filled with nothing but things that are determined to murder you?
It had everything needed to run a Spelljammer campaign. The fact you want more doesn’t make it incomplete.
It has Everything? Really? Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
Christ I'd be happy if there were rules for anything in space; how big are systems, how long does it take to travel between them, what kind of stellar phenomenon exist in space, why does anyone want to go into space when it seems to be filled with nothing but things that are determined to murder you?
How big are systems? As big as you the DM need them to be. Realmspace has (according to 2e lore) 6 or 7 habitable planets (and a sun and multiple moons)
How long does it take to travel between them? Speed of plot (We did this back in 2e days as well... the designers were not astrophysicists; they just slapped down numbers that sounded astronomically large to them; so the speeds and distances didnt match up very well).
What kind of stellar phenomenon exist in space? All the ones we currently know about IRL plus any of the made up ones from those SciFi shows on TV. Also a whole host of weird Astral, Ethereal, and other extra-planar nonsense a DMs fevered mind can dream up.
Why does anyone want to go into space when it seems to be filled with nothing but things that are determined to murder you? One could ask that of us Earthlings IRL... But with them tossing the Phlogiston siilyness out and just going with sailing the "astral sea" weirdness. I have a question of my own... what happens to the things stored in a bag of holding when it gets damaged? That's right it ends up dumped into the astral void... so ... why brave the dangerous Astral Sea? Salvage and Trade. So basically? Same motivations as any other D&D setting.
How big are systems? As big as you the DM need them to be. Realmspace has (according to 2e lore) 6 or 7 habitable planets (and a sun and multiple moons)
It's worth noting that the free Spelljammer Academy supplement on D&D Beyond does have a map of Realmspace.
It lists Toril, Anadia, Coliar, Karpri, Chandos, Glyth, Garden, and H'catha as bodies orbiting the Sun. The first five are in the inner system, while the latter three are in the outer reaches of it. And if you go far enough, you can enter the Deep Astral.
My first impression of Spelljammer 5E is, why is there Astral content shoehorned into this Spelljammer setting?
I feel like they left off the ability stats for SJ ships and left damage threshold to keep things simple. I would rule that any saves involving movement of the ship be based on the helm controller since they are the only person involved with movement and that yes all other things automatically fail but damage has to exceed the threshold to take affect. Example caster shoots a fireball at a ship ship auto fails but damage is below threshold nothing happens since it has immunity to all damage below threshold.
I’ve never played Spelljammer but it sounds pretty cool.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Spelljammer is the sort of setting that, when done well, is great fun; when done poorly it’s not fun. Sadly the 5e version, as is, is incomplete and so is done poorly. The saving grace is that 5e is enough like 2e that transforming the well done 2e materials into 5e is not difficult for decent home brewers. The annoying thing is that WOTC has all the 2e stuff and DIDN’T translate it into a fully done setting.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Maybe they were trying to say that each D&D setting is like its own separate island in the Astral Plane.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Think about Star Wars or Star Trek or just about any space travel game - he vast majority of action doesn’t take place out in the depths of space, it happens in systems or on the planets/moons/asteroids of the systems. Same thing in spelljammer. The astral see is deep space, mostly you just traverse it to get from one system to another. Then the action starts.one of the major problems with 5e is that they didn’t really give you a way to make up your own systems AND they didn’t give any real details on the existing systems (FR, Mystara, Eberron, Dragonlance, etc all of which was available in the 2e sources (ok not Eberron but that is available in 5e). This dual lack along with the lack of spells and items (also available in the 2e sources) is what folks are complaining about.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Igonring how large scale battles with vehicles are a corner stone of every Star wars movie, the issue here is that there simply isn't any real information on... basically anything in spelljammer; we get like one port and that's it. Some people will talk about the elf system or doomspace but neither of those are relevent long term.
And quite frankly, if I'm paying considerably more for a product that is supposed to be a campaign setting then previous installments I expect to be able to do a hell of a lot more with it then run a single module that is frankly a rough draft.
Yes ignoring the large scale battles since DnD has no mechanics for large scale battles.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
In my current 2ish year campaign I have home-brewed Spelljamming from the original material and some good DMs guild stuff. I didn't have high hopes for 5e Spelljammer, but it didn't even live up to that. For me it's very little bang for the buck, and the Spelljamming itself is severely lacking.
As the last few years direction of D&D from WotC doesn't fit me and my table, we will also move on to other games for a couple of years. First out is Savage Pathfinder in a couple of months when the current 5e campaign wraps up. After that we have Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4e with The Enemy Within and Call of Cthulhus Masks of Nyarlathotep in the queue.
I made a gem Dragonborn Circle of the Stars druid knowing that we’ll be moving into spelljammer around the end of the year. It’s niche, but it works well.
It has Everything? Really?
Can you point to the rules for Star system generation?
Me? no.
But that is because I own both 3rd party and the old 2e Spelljammers content that actually had that information.
But new DMs? They most likely will. Seeing as if they want use anything besides the Rock of Bral or go beyond the Light of Xaryxis included adventure there is a suspicious dearth of content.
I have seen many games with systems for star system generation. They all had the shared feature of being means of generating vast quantities of random boring stuff.
And I can bet I found those exact same systems great sources for inspiration for spring boarding into interesting homebrew lore.
Then I guess you never use any official content ever, because you don't need any of it to play a game...
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
repeat after me...
As a genius I am not qualified to say it does not take a genius to do this.
Just because YOU personally do not NEED assistance to get your imagination going does not mean the mechanic is useless or unnecessary.
I cannot speak for anyone else but I have found need for those tools on occasion.
When I heard "three hardback books" I was not expecting a total of only 192 pages. There's more cover stock in this boxed set than paper, and if you handed me an blank sheet of paper from one of these books I might have identified it as cardstock.
Good for collectibility, I suppose, not so great for content. The books are beautiful, no doubt, but there's a lot of flash here and not a lot of substance.
It's pretty underwhelming, especially considering that we're unlikely to see more Spelljammer material, based on the way D&D5 is realized. I would have liked to see more ship types, more ship variations and custom fittings, even more ship variations and custom fittings, more locations, more factions... and yeah, if not a random generator, at least better guidance for newer dungeon masters looking to design their own interplanetary setting. It's a weird beast.
It's meh in a lot of the ways the seafaring stuff in Ghosts was meh. It's... sufficient. *shrugs*
The good news is that all of the old Spelljammer stuff is available on DMsGuild.com! Huzzah! Buy it, read it, love it, use it! Just ignore all that nonsense about the phlogiston.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Christ I'd be happy if there were rules for anything in space; how big are systems, how long does it take to travel between them, what kind of stellar phenomenon exist in space, why does anyone want to go into space when it seems to be filled with nothing but things that are determined to murder you?
How big are systems? As big as you the DM need them to be. Realmspace has (according to 2e lore) 6 or 7 habitable planets (and a sun and multiple moons)
How long does it take to travel between them? Speed of plot (We did this back in 2e days as well... the designers were not astrophysicists; they just slapped down numbers that sounded astronomically large to them; so the speeds and distances didnt match up very well).
What kind of stellar phenomenon exist in space? All the ones we currently know about IRL plus any of the made up ones from those SciFi shows on TV. Also a whole host of weird Astral, Ethereal, and other extra-planar nonsense a DMs fevered mind can dream up.
Why does anyone want to go into space when it seems to be filled with nothing but things that are determined to murder you? One could ask that of us Earthlings IRL... But with them tossing the Phlogiston siilyness out and just going with sailing the "astral sea" weirdness. I have a question of my own... what happens to the things stored in a bag of holding when it gets damaged? That's right it ends up dumped into the astral void... so ... why brave the dangerous Astral Sea? Salvage and Trade. So basically? Same motivations as any other D&D setting.
It's worth noting that the free Spelljammer Academy supplement on D&D Beyond does have a map of Realmspace.
It lists Toril, Anadia, Coliar, Karpri, Chandos, Glyth, Garden, and H'catha as bodies orbiting the Sun. The first five are in the inner system, while the latter three are in the outer reaches of it. And if you go far enough, you can enter the Deep Astral.