Hasbro is actually doing quite well in the last month /days on the stock markets. It seams like investors do not care about a minor upset in customer satisfaction.
The majority of investors likely simply do not know yet. And there are no quarterly reports yet to inform them of much. Plus January traditionally has low sales anyway.
Subs are not necessarily that big a percentage of revenues.
Baloney. Their stock and rating is down, and all because they tried to "monitize" Magic the Gathering. That was in Nov. 2022.
Here's just one article about it, there's many more, especially in finance pages.
Magic the Gathering owner Hasbero is 'killing it's golden goose'
Is this the death of D&D, not likely. With forty odd years of material in the wild there will be thousands of games being played every day. Is this the death of contemporary D&D? if so, good.
I'd like to hope someone who isn't so money hungry can keep it going into perpetuity but the entire structure of human existence would need to change for that to happen. Until the High powered corporate world dies off, this will go on and on and on, every decade or so for ever.
The death of D&D came when Hasbro bought wizards of the coast, demanding millions and millions of dollars in profits every year. It stopped being a niche hobby and became just another source to feed corporate greed.
D&D cannot die, it is something we hold dear… it will always be with us. But those who hold it as only a means to make money will never understand and will never hold our respect.
My biggest concern is Dndbeyond right now. It's easy enough to pick up any good ttrpg system and "play DnD" with your friends, but dndbeyond makes keeping track of everything so much easier.
Eventually someone will have a competitive product though.
Yeah my worry is that the ******** on DnD Beyond will all vanish when DnDone releases, or at some point shortly after. In order to 'force' people onto the new product.
I suspect we will still be able to read through the 5e books still whatever happens. It's just that without the tools such as the character creator, it's really no better than pen and paper.
My biggest concern is Dndbeyond right now. It's easy enough to pick up any good ttrpg system and "play DnD" with your friends, but dndbeyond makes keeping track of everything so much easier.
Eventually someone will have a competitive product though.
Yeah my worry is that the ******** on DnD Beyond will all vanish when DnDone releases, or at some point shortly after. In order to 'force' people onto the new product.
I suspect we will still be able to read through the 5e books still whatever happens. It's just that without the tools such as the character creator, it's really no better than pen and paper.
That's a point I've made before, an dI am sure that 5e rules will disappear on DNDB because of the new OGL 2.0.
Why? Because OneDND is a lie. It's not a smoothing out of the 5e rules, they won't be compatible, it's 6e. 6e is a new rules set that will be specifically tied to the D&D brand and legal IPs.
For example; that's why Vecna now doesn't look like, walk like, or speak like Vecna. He's 6e Vecna. He's a vanilla version acceptable to the new business model.
WotC is a business, I never expected anything more from them, now I know all the so called "creators" are too. None over them have my respect any more, and that above all is what has tainted DnD for me.
So what's your job and how can you afford to work for free?? This may be the most nonsensical post on the entire subject of the OGL...
D&D will live on. But future D&D may be doomed. I also think that the community in general break apart and migrate to other systems or older versions of D&D. Having played for a very long time and having a span of books that would last... well... forever. I have no intention on moving fourth beyond 5e myself. Most of what I have is 3rd party relative to my overall collection size. Its just better. Who im concerned for are those who bought into the D&D Beyond service and purchased their material through this system. In a matter of time this will all go away once the new version is officially out, or shortly after. Just because you payed for something doesn't mean they cannot take it away. You agreed to their terms. This is why I only bought the actual books or PDFs in some cases. They cannot take any of that away. This is the same with some of the VTTs out there.
I would be remiss not to provide a link to the #OpenDND letter itself, and your opportunity to sign the letter yourself and let Hasbero know how you feel.
WotC declared D&D is a lifestyle brand, much like Marvel did (and others I'm sure). As the OP indicated, Marvel comic books does not bring in the money, it exists in order to make money based on its IP. WotC thinks D&D can do the same. There is a ton of stuff for Marvel out there to consume, but what utlimately was diminished was the quality of the comic book, much to the dismay of comic book fans. Hopefully, D&D (the actual game) won't suffer a steep decline in quality as WotC continues to spread it into a lifestyle brand.
yeah... except Marvel is all IP, as in, everything they do has a trademark and is intellectual property.. characters, superheroes, stories, villains, descriptions of one or the other... that's all stuff they can defend, and that they are replicating across all available forms of media. it's the bulk of what they do. WotC has the same in terms of settings, adventure modules, specific text... they can defend their Faerun, forgotten realms, Vecna's, their Elministers, and so on... they can't do the same with the game itself, which cannot be trademarked or claimed as intellectual property, because games mechanics are protected against this... so a third party that publishes their own brainchild that just so happens to rely on using the rules of the game are completely in the clear anyway... unless they accept to hand over the keys to their IP vault to WotC, which is what they were trying to do with their bullcrap OGL. they were claiming ownership of IP through a questionable claim of ownership of the game itself and its mechanics and a bogus request of affiliation to gain the right to using the games rules..
It is a very shallow review of the situation. It is the only comment to that effect I have seen from a lawyer so far, while like 20+, some of the actual IP lawyers involved, one having written his phd thesis about the OGL, sound very different.
Hasbro is actually doing quite well in the last month /days on the stock markets. It seams like investors do not care about a minor upset in customer satisfaction.
I checked their stock price - look at the past year or two, there is a tiny tip upwards over the past month, but overall it is much lower now.
It is a very shallow review of the situation. It is the only comment to that effect I have seen from a lawyer so far, while like 20+, some of the actual IP lawyers involved, one having written his phd thesis about the OGL, sound very different.
Still a lawyer, and still worth watching ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EDIT; Watching some of this guy, and he's adorable, I get what he's saying. And I noted how, yea, he's right that D&D through AD&D were all backwards compatible. Some new stuff, but still the same game.
WotC declared D&D is a lifestyle brand, much like Marvel did (and others I'm sure). As the OP indicated, Marvel comic books does not bring in the money, it exists in order to make money based on its IP. WotC thinks D&D can do the same. There is a ton of stuff for Marvel out there to consume, but what utlimately was diminished was the quality of the comic book, much to the dismay of comic book fans. Hopefully, D&D (the actual game) won't suffer a steep decline in quality as WotC continues to spread it into a lifestyle brand.
yeah... except Marvel is all IP, as in, everything they do has a trademark and is intellectual property.. characters, superheroes, stories, villains, descriptions of one or the other... that's all stuff they can defend, and that they are replicating across all available forms of media. it's the bulk of what they do. WotC has the same in terms of settings, adventure modules, specific text... they can defend their Faerun, forgotten realms, Vecna's, their Elministers, and so on... they can't do the same with the game itself, which cannot be trademarked or claimed as intellectual property, because games mechanics are protected against this... so a third party that publishes their own brainchild that just so happens to rely on using the rules of the game are completely in the clear anyway... unless they accept to hand over the keys to their IP vault to WotC, which is what they were trying to do with their bullcrap OGL. they were claiming ownership of IP through a questionable claim of ownership of the game itself and its mechanics and a bogus request of affiliation to gain the right to using the games rules..
You know, and yes your 100% right, but you could just say that more simply as, say; legally, no one can copyright the rules to poker.
Just to say to everyone, because perhaps it's not been made clear; That's all that means, legally. In law, no one can copyright the rules to a game. It's a thing. Legally.
Which is sorta academic to the OGL discussion. Legally, natch. If I may say so. I'd save that discussion for the inevitably terrible WoTC suing someone for terrible reasons story. Hey, don't think it won't happen. Not because they are terrible, that would be non-constructive, but you know... corporate lawyers gotta justify that big pay cheque man
Hasbro is actually doing quite well in the last month /days on the stock markets. It seams like investors do not care about a minor upset in customer satisfaction.
I checked their stock price - look at the past year or two, there is a tiny tip upwards over the past month, but overall it is much lower now.
Yeah, but this is disingenious to state it like that. Over the past 6 months, their stock is the highest its been. Hasbro has made other statements prior to 2023 that has affected them, but in current day terms it's non-issue. You can take that to mean that from a shareholder perspective they don't see the drama with the OGL as being harmful.
Honestly, I kind of agree with that.
Theres a lot of engagement on twitter, reddit, this website etc.
The thing is though? The absolute popularity of 5e? The fact that Wizards doesn't even feel it needed to post on the main website? Post videos on their main youtube channels?
All this really is doing is driving the conversation about dungeons and dragons. It'll get people to look into the hobby once the revised OGL is released and that allays concerns, assuming they backpedal hard enough. If they don't they will lose people for sure but they'll still be profitable as a whole. Now those algos on socials that were plucked to pick up on the drama will pick up on the good news too. To use a different thing, Hogwarts Legacy is a game that is an absolute firestorm. You'd think based on what you're seeing on socials that no one will touch it, yet its the top wishlisted game on steam.
I'm not saying this to say I agree with Wizards. It's pretty easy to find me on twitter and find my thoughts on it. This just isn't the death of D&D. People espouse other systems and talk about how they love playing other games but facts are other publishers make pittance compared to Hasbro via WoTC. If D&D loses 10% of its market share the TTRPG market would EXPLODE if there was a direct translation to other systems. A lot of those other games they play aren't new, they're older games and out of production. You see it in these threads all the time. "Oh, I refuse to play 5e, I'll play D&D 3.5", or "I'd rather play this game that hasn't been produced in 15+ years". That keeps the hobby alive, but doesn't give publishers a revenue stream unless those older materials are for sale on drivethrurpg/dmsguild/chaosium/green ronin etc. Other fact is this crowd here talking about other systems is the big minority. Mainstream players play D&D because its accessible and easy. D&D Beyond made it easy. Playing any other game by comparison is much harder. You either have to go out of your way to find hodgepodged digital tools that kind of maybe work or you have to actually get physical shit. Dice, sheets, and books/pdfs at the minimum. 5th, if I can get a cell phone in your hand, you can easily play 5th legitimately.
I think there are bigger issues. I have many concerns on how this website will run One D&D content and if it'll be concurrent with 5e and support both standards or just overrule it. Being fair, as someone who actively doesn't subscribe and purchase content anymore? I'm not really entitled to answers anymore, but it's still a concern of mine and would change if I support this site in the future. I have concerns how the VTT integration will supposedly work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Baloney. Their stock and rating is down, and all because they tried to "monitize" Magic the Gathering. That was in Nov. 2022.
Here's just one article about it, there's many more, especially in finance pages.
Magic the Gathering owner Hasbero is 'killing it's golden goose'
Polygon.com
https://www.polygon.com/23458064/magic-the-gathering-overprinting-hasbro-stock-downgrade
The original journalist who broke this story has a new and savage article, it's a must read!
https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-wizards-hasbro-ogl-open-game-license-1849981136
Is this the death of D&D, not likely. With forty odd years of material in the wild there will be thousands of games being played every day. Is this the death of contemporary D&D? if so, good.
I'd like to hope someone who isn't so money hungry can keep it going into perpetuity but the entire structure of human existence would need to change for that to happen. Until the High powered corporate world dies off, this will go on and on and on, every decade or so for ever.
The death of D&D came when Hasbro bought wizards of the coast, demanding millions and millions of dollars in profits every year. It stopped being a niche hobby and became just another source to feed corporate greed.
Share holders, I'm looking at you!!
D&D cannot die, it is something we hold dear… it will always be with us. But those who hold it as only a means to make money will never understand and will never hold our respect.
I cheered at Ginny Di! Wooo!!! :D
LegalEagle recently posted a video about the OGL thing. TL;DR you never even technically needed the OGL to publish material that's compatible with 5e.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpa-Zb0ZcQjTCPP1Dx_1M8Q
[REDACTED]
Yeah my worry is that the ******** on DnD Beyond will all vanish when DnDone releases, or at some point shortly after. In order to 'force' people onto the new product.
I suspect we will still be able to read through the 5e books still whatever happens. It's just that without the tools such as the character creator, it's really no better than pen and paper.
That's a point I've made before, an dI am sure that 5e rules will disappear on DNDB because of the new OGL 2.0.
Why? Because OneDND is a lie. It's not a smoothing out of the 5e rules, they won't be compatible, it's 6e. 6e is a new rules set that will be specifically tied to the D&D brand and legal IPs.
For example; that's why Vecna now doesn't look like, walk like, or speak like Vecna. He's 6e Vecna. He's a vanilla version acceptable to the new business model.
So what's your job and how can you afford to work for free?? This may be the most nonsensical post on the entire subject of the OGL...
Ummm?? That's already happening...
D&D will live on. But future D&D may be doomed. I also think that the community in general break apart and migrate to other systems or older versions of D&D. Having played for a very long time and having a span of books that would last... well... forever. I have no intention on moving fourth beyond 5e myself. Most of what I have is 3rd party relative to my overall collection size. Its just better. Who im concerned for are those who bought into the D&D Beyond service and purchased their material through this system. In a matter of time this will all go away once the new version is officially out, or shortly after. Just because you payed for something doesn't mean they cannot take it away. You agreed to their terms. This is why I only bought the actual books or PDFs in some cases. They cannot take any of that away. This is the same with some of the VTTs out there.
I would be remiss not to provide a link to the #OpenDND letter itself, and your opportunity to sign the letter yourself and let Hasbero know how you feel.
Join the party! :)
https://www.opendnd.games/#open-letter?utm_source=syndication
yeah... except Marvel is all IP, as in, everything they do has a trademark and is intellectual property.. characters, superheroes, stories, villains, descriptions of one or the other... that's all stuff they can defend, and that they are replicating across all available forms of media. it's the bulk of what they do.
WotC has the same in terms of settings, adventure modules, specific text... they can defend their Faerun, forgotten realms, Vecna's, their Elministers, and so on... they can't do the same with the game itself, which cannot be trademarked or claimed as intellectual property, because games mechanics are protected against this... so a third party that publishes their own brainchild that just so happens to rely on using the rules of the game are completely in the clear anyway... unless they accept to hand over the keys to their IP vault to WotC, which is what they were trying to do with their bullcrap OGL. they were claiming ownership of IP through a questionable claim of ownership of the game itself and its mechanics and a bogus request of affiliation to gain the right to using the games rules..
It is a very shallow review of the situation. It is the only comment to that effect I have seen from a lawyer so far, while like 20+, some of the actual IP lawyers involved, one having written his phd thesis about the OGL, sound very different.
I checked their stock price - look at the past year or two, there is a tiny tip upwards over the past month, but overall it is much lower now.
Search for the Grumpy Old Grognard's Dungeons & Dragons was Dead Long Before the OGL 1.1 Came Along on Youtube. It is quite entertaining!
Still a lawyer, and still worth watching ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[REDACTED]
Sure? but you wouldn't be implying that I'm that sort. That's just silly. It's non-constructive to think so, or so I've heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j38B8YjbD0
EDIT; Watching some of this guy, and he's adorable, I get what he's saying. And I noted how, yea, he's right that D&D through AD&D were all backwards compatible. Some new stuff, but still the same game.
Too bad 6e will screw everyone.
You know, and yes your 100% right, but you could just say that more simply as, say; legally, no one can copyright the rules to poker.
Just to say to everyone, because perhaps it's not been made clear; That's all that means, legally. In law, no one can copyright the rules to a game. It's a thing. Legally.
Which is sorta academic to the OGL discussion. Legally, natch. If I may say so. I'd save that discussion for the inevitably terrible WoTC suing someone for terrible reasons story. Hey, don't think it won't happen. Not because they are terrible, that would be non-constructive, but you know... corporate lawyers gotta justify that big pay cheque man
Yeah, but this is disingenious to state it like that. Over the past 6 months, their stock is the highest its been. Hasbro has made other statements prior to 2023 that has affected them, but in current day terms it's non-issue. You can take that to mean that from a shareholder perspective they don't see the drama with the OGL as being harmful.
Honestly, I kind of agree with that.
Theres a lot of engagement on twitter, reddit, this website etc.
The thing is though? The absolute popularity of 5e? The fact that Wizards doesn't even feel it needed to post on the main website? Post videos on their main youtube channels?
All this really is doing is driving the conversation about dungeons and dragons. It'll get people to look into the hobby once the revised OGL is released and that allays concerns, assuming they backpedal hard enough. If they don't they will lose people for sure but they'll still be profitable as a whole. Now those algos on socials that were plucked to pick up on the drama will pick up on the good news too. To use a different thing, Hogwarts Legacy is a game that is an absolute firestorm. You'd think based on what you're seeing on socials that no one will touch it, yet its the top wishlisted game on steam.
I'm not saying this to say I agree with Wizards. It's pretty easy to find me on twitter and find my thoughts on it. This just isn't the death of D&D. People espouse other systems and talk about how they love playing other games but facts are other publishers make pittance compared to Hasbro via WoTC. If D&D loses 10% of its market share the TTRPG market would EXPLODE if there was a direct translation to other systems. A lot of those other games they play aren't new, they're older games and out of production. You see it in these threads all the time. "Oh, I refuse to play 5e, I'll play D&D 3.5", or "I'd rather play this game that hasn't been produced in 15+ years". That keeps the hobby alive, but doesn't give publishers a revenue stream unless those older materials are for sale on drivethrurpg/dmsguild/chaosium/green ronin etc. Other fact is this crowd here talking about other systems is the big minority. Mainstream players play D&D because its accessible and easy. D&D Beyond made it easy. Playing any other game by comparison is much harder. You either have to go out of your way to find hodgepodged digital tools that kind of maybe work or you have to actually get physical shit. Dice, sheets, and books/pdfs at the minimum. 5th, if I can get a cell phone in your hand, you can easily play 5th legitimately.
I think there are bigger issues. I have many concerns on how this website will run One D&D content and if it'll be concurrent with 5e and support both standards or just overrule it. Being fair, as someone who actively doesn't subscribe and purchase content anymore? I'm not really entitled to answers anymore, but it's still a concern of mine and would change if I support this site in the future. I have concerns how the VTT integration will supposedly work.