Trying to homebrew some monsters and I noticed the 3rd level Vampiric Touch spell that almost nobody uses. For reference, here is the essential language from the spell: "Make a melee spell attack against a creature within your reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 necrotic damage, and you regain hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage dealt. Until the spell ends, you can make the attack again on each of your turns as an action."
My guess is that the main problems with the spell are: A) it takes an action to cast; B) it only does 3d6 damage using a 3rd level spell slot; and C) it takes Concentration. Would making the spell a Bonus Action, increasing the damage to 4d6 necrotic damage, and make it a non-concentration spell make it worthy for a CR 10+ monster?
I'm pretty sure "melee spell attack" is only in reference to the Vampiric Touch itself. The preceding sentence states: "The touch of your shadow-wreathed hand can siphon life force from others to heal your wounds." The spell enchants your hand to be able to wrench the life force from nearby creatures. Even assuming that Vampiric Touch could apply to non-hand melee spell attacks (dubious at best), Thorn Whip has no "reach".
That first sentence intrigues me... Make a melee spell attack against a creature within your reach.
During the next round after I cast this spell, if I cast Thorn Whip does it trigger the Vampiric Touch spell since technically I made a melee spell attack against a creature within my reach?
No. If it did, it would say something like "Whenever you make a melee spell attack..." Instead, it is describing how you make the attack as part of the spell. Its one or the other, I'm afraid.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's a niche spell, but it's fine for what it does. For one action, you do damage and regain hit points. If you want to do more damage and don't care about the healing, use something else
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's a niche spell, but it's fine for what it does. For one action, you do damage and regain hit points. If you want to do more damage and don't care about the healing, use something else
What are you even talking about? The context of the question is how to make it a better spell for an NPC or Monster, not for PCs. The point is to make a 3rd level spell feel like it's optimal enough to use against PCs. Re-read the first sentence of my post. What with the action economy being stacked against BBEGs in 5th edition, it makes sense to fine tune a spell to make it "do more". I'm asking people who have more experience running Monsters than I do about rebalancing the spell.
It's a niche spell, but it's fine for what it does. For one action, you do damage and regain hit points. If you want to do more damage and don't care about the healing, use something else
What are you even talking about? The context of the question is how to make it a better spell for an NPC or Monster, not for PCs. The point is to make a 3rd level spell feel like it's optimal enough to use against PCs. Re-read the first sentence of my post. What with the action economy being stacked against BBEGs in 5th edition, it makes sense to fine tune a spell to make it "do more". I'm asking people who have more experience running Monsters than I do about rebalancing the spell.
What are you even talking about? It's a PC spell. If you want a monster stat block to have a similar spell or ability but ramped up, then just give it to them. "Better" and "optimal", whatever you think those words mean in this context, are irrelevant
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To be honest, beyond the issue of the freedom to modify a spell, there's not really a difference between a PC and an NPC using a spell. Either it's appropriate and for its level or it isn't. Either it's worth a 3rd level slot, or it isn't. NPCs and monsters actually care less about what level spell slots a spell uses because if they run out without providing enough challenge...then you just grant them an additional spell slot. That's why you have a DM screen, so no one knows that you're doing things like that.
Action Economy is a more valid concern. What would be a good enhancement depends on the character casting it - if they're rarely never using Bonus Actions, then that's a viable change. Alternatively, you could turn it into Legendary Action. Be careful though, messing with things like that very quickly and potently affect the game balance.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
What are you even talking about? It's a PC spell. If you want a monster stat block to have a similar spell or ability but ramped up, then just give it to them. "Better" and "optimal", whatever you think those words means in this context, are irrelevant
I noticed the 3rd level Vampiric Touch spell that almost nobody uses.
If you're talking about monster stat blocks, why do you care how often a PC spell gets used?
I care because it's a spell that I might give to Humanoid NPCs - a potentially hostile Cleric/Sorcerer/Warlock - or to a "Monster". I care because I don't like giving blatantly unbalanced abilities to NPCs when those abilities are spells. In 5e, there is no separate spell list for Evil and Good spellcasters. There are no Law, Chaos domains, etc. Also, if one of my players ask about the spell, I want to be able to give them an honest answer without saying "I just made it up. LOL" I'm not one of those DMs that let their players use Silvery Barbs or Confusion and somehow "forgets" that enemy NPCs can use those spells as well. That reverse is also true. If I give my enemy NPCs a spell, I always have it in the back of my mind that the PCs could potentially learn the spell as well. That's how I run my games, thankyouverymuch.
I care because it's a spell that I might give to Humanoid NPCs - a potentially hostile Cleric/Sorcerer/Warlock - or to a "Monster". I care because I don't like giving blatantly unbalanced abilities to NPCs when those abilities are spells. In 5e, there is no separate spell list for Evil and Good spellcasters. There are no Law, Chaos domains, etc. Also, if one of my players ask about the spell, I want to be able to give them an honest answer without saying "I just made it up. LOL" I'm not one of those DMs that let their players use Silvery Barbs or Confusion and somehow "forgets" that enemy NPCs can use those spells as well. That reverse is also true. If I give my enemy NPCs a spell, I always have it in the back of my mind that the PCs could potentially learn the spell as well. That's how I run my games, thankyouverymuch.
If you want to keep it as vampiric touch, the spell PCs can learn for themselves... it already has rules for scaling. Just have the NPC/monster upcast it if you want it to do more damage/heal more HP
If instead you do want to tweak it beyond simple upcasting, just call it Draining Grasp or whatever and make it a magical ability and not a spell. Your hostile cleric/warlock got it as a boon from their god/patron. Boom, now you don't have to worry about PCs getting their hands on it, no matter how "unbalanced" or "optimized" you think it is
You really seem to be going out of your way to overcomplicate things for yourself
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so it sounds like you're wanting the spell to be a bit better so a monster can use it, and also be balanced if players seek to use it too, is that about right?
Have to agree that as a 3rd level spell, and needing to be a melee spell attack to boot, it's a bit meh.
I would perhaps go as simple as dealing "3d6 plus your spellcasting ability modifier" of damage, for a flat increase of probably +4. Thats +2 healing as well, and it lasts for several rounds.
Not so helpful on a Monster, but a Monster could be written as:
Multiattack: The Vampiric Echidna makes 2 melee attacks, or makes one melee attack and uses Vampiric Touch, if the spell is active.
This uses the whole "monsters don't play by PC rules" and keeps the spell balanced for PC use - the monster can attack and siphon life.
As an alternative alternative, you could remake the spell as:
"Make a melee attack as part of this spell, if the attack hits the target takes an additional 2d6 necrotic damage and you regain half of that. On each subsequent turn, immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can use a bonus action to cause the target to take 2d6 additional necrotic damage, and regain half of that."
That way it's less damage as it'll stack with Smite and Sneak Attack, and you don't want that to spiral out of control.
As another Alternative:
Cast as a reaction, concentration 1 minute: When you hit a target with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to cast thit spell, dealing 3d6 necrotic damage and healing half. For the spells duration, you can use your reaction when you hit a target with a melee attack to repeat this effect. upcasting does more dice."
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard? Fighter could action surge to cast, then attack, rogue could cast then attack from stealth - both using Shield to avoid damage, and heal-tanking to their hearts content.
Maaybe not hugely optimized, but a fun gimmick none the less. I have to say, a nicely built rogue that heals while sneak attacking would be kinda cool, even if other builds might do more.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard? Fighter could action surge to cast, then attack, rogue could cast then attack from stealth - both using Shield to avoid damage, and heal-tanking to their hearts content.
Maaybe not hugely optimized, but a fun gimmick none the less. I have to say, a nicely built rogue that heals while sneak attacking would be kinda cool, even if other builds might do more.
Half of 3d6 back each round, so maybe 5 HP of healing - and you need to be at least 5th level to cast it, when the incoming damage will be way more than the 5 HP that you get healed from this attack.
Half of 3d6 back each round, so maybe 5 HP of healing - and you need to be at least 5th level to cast it, when the incoming damage will be way more than the 5 HP that you get healed from this attack.
That is correct. I'm not totally sure I see your point. You feel 5 less damage each round is too little? It's a lot better than Heroism, which I've seen decide many battles. Anyways the average would be 7,5. They would stack, though, that's neat. I suppose a sorcerer/barbarian could go rather a long way: Vampiric Touch, Heroism, and 12xShield. Plus Rage, for further damage reduction.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard?
If you're going that route, fighter/sorcerer -- Quickened vampiric touch as a bonus action, second use on the turn as an action, third use on the same turn with Action Surge
Really, the utility of the spell is that it's one of the very few ways arcane casters can heal themselves
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard?
If you're going that route, fighter/sorcerer -- Quickened vampiric touch as a bonus action, second use on the turn as an action, third use on the same turn with Action Surge
Really, the utility of the spell is that it's one of the very few ways arcane casters can heal themselves
One of the more frustrating rules blocks this - if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, you can only cast cantrips (no levelled spells) for the rest of the turn.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard?
If you're going that route, fighter/sorcerer -- Quickened vampiric touch as a bonus action, second use on the turn as an action, third use on the same turn with Action Surge
Really, the utility of the spell is that it's one of the very few ways arcane casters can heal themselves
One of the more frustrating rules blocks this - if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, you can only cast cantrips (no levelled spells) for the rest of the turn.
You're not recasting the spell. You're just maintaining concentration on it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Would changing casting time to BAction and getting rid of the concentration requirement be too powerful if I ALSO homebrew a spell that causes AoE vulnerability to all necrotic damage, one that requires concentration?
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard?
If you're going that route, fighter/sorcerer -- Quickened vampiric touch as a bonus action, second use on the turn as an action, third use on the same turn with Action Surge
Really, the utility of the spell is that it's one of the very few ways arcane casters can heal themselves
One of the more frustrating rules blocks this - if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, you can only cast cantrips (no levelled spells) for the rest of the turn.
You're not recasting the spell. You're just maintaining concentration on it
Then it doesn't qualify for Quickened Spell, which requires the casting of a spell.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard?
If you're going that route, fighter/sorcerer -- Quickened vampiric touch as a bonus action, second use on the turn as an action, third use on the same turn with Action Surge
Really, the utility of the spell is that it's one of the very few ways arcane casters can heal themselves
One of the more frustrating rules blocks this - if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, you can only cast cantrips (no levelled spells) for the rest of the turn.
You're not recasting the spell. You're just maintaining concentration on it
Then it doesn't qualify for Quickened Spell, which requires the casting of a spell.
My dude
You Quicken vampiric touch as you cast it, which makes it a bonus action to cast. You attack once with it as part of the casting
Maintaining concentration on it, you then use your action on that same turn to make a second attack, which you can do because the spell says:
Until the spell ends, you can make the attack again on each of your turns as an action.
Continuing to maintain concentration, you then use Action Surge for another action on the same turn, and a third attack
There are actually a small handful of spells, most of which get dismissed as "not worth casting" the same way vampiric touch is, that contain similar "Until the spell ends, do X as an action" language and which you can double/triple up on in a turn using Quickened Spell
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Would changing casting time to BAction and getting rid of the concentration requirement be too powerful if I ALSO homebrew a spell that causes AoE vulnerability to all necrotic damage, one that requires concentration?
I think if you're going that route for a monster stat block, just turn it into a reaction -- [spell[hellish rebuke[/spell] but necrotic and with a healing component. The existing necromancer wizard (and the old version from Volo's) already has a similar reaction, Grim Harvest, which is less useful since it only triggers on a kill
But yeah, if you're giving the enemy caster a concentration spell that inflicts vulnerability to necrotic, you're kind of asking for a TPK if you then stack it with consistent sources of necrotic damage
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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Trying to homebrew some monsters and I noticed the 3rd level Vampiric Touch spell that almost nobody uses. For reference, here is the essential language from the spell: "Make a melee spell attack against a creature within your reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 necrotic damage, and you regain hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage dealt. Until the spell ends, you can make the attack again on each of your turns as an action."
My guess is that the main problems with the spell are: A) it takes an action to cast; B) it only does 3d6 damage using a 3rd level spell slot; and C) it takes Concentration. Would making the spell a Bonus Action, increasing the damage to 4d6 necrotic damage, and make it a non-concentration spell make it worthy for a CR 10+ monster?
I'm pretty sure "melee spell attack" is only in reference to the Vampiric Touch itself. The preceding sentence states: "The touch of your shadow-wreathed hand can siphon life force from others to heal your wounds." The spell enchants your hand to be able to wrench the life force from nearby creatures. Even assuming that Vampiric Touch could apply to non-hand melee spell attacks (dubious at best), Thorn Whip has no "reach".
No. If it did, it would say something like "Whenever you make a melee spell attack..." Instead, it is describing how you make the attack as part of the spell. Its one or the other, I'm afraid.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's a niche spell, but it's fine for what it does. For one action, you do damage and regain hit points. If you want to do more damage and don't care about the healing, use something else
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What are you even talking about? The context of the question is how to make it a better spell for an NPC or Monster, not for PCs. The point is to make a 3rd level spell feel like it's optimal enough to use against PCs. Re-read the first sentence of my post. What with the action economy being stacked against BBEGs in 5th edition, it makes sense to fine tune a spell to make it "do more". I'm asking people who have more experience running Monsters than I do about rebalancing the spell.
What are you even talking about? It's a PC spell. If you want a monster stat block to have a similar spell or ability but ramped up, then just give it to them. "Better" and "optimal", whatever you think those words mean in this context, are irrelevant
By the way, the first sentence of your post says
If you're talking about monster stat blocks, why do you care how often a PC spell gets used?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To be honest, beyond the issue of the freedom to modify a spell, there's not really a difference between a PC and an NPC using a spell. Either it's appropriate and for its level or it isn't. Either it's worth a 3rd level slot, or it isn't. NPCs and monsters actually care less about what level spell slots a spell uses because if they run out without providing enough challenge...then you just grant them an additional spell slot. That's why you have a DM screen, so no one knows that you're doing things like that.
Action Economy is a more valid concern. What would be a good enhancement depends on the character casting it - if they're rarely never using Bonus Actions, then that's a viable change. Alternatively, you could turn it into Legendary Action. Be careful though, messing with things like that very quickly and potently affect the game balance.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I care because it's a spell that I might give to Humanoid NPCs - a potentially hostile Cleric/Sorcerer/Warlock - or to a "Monster". I care because I don't like giving blatantly unbalanced abilities to NPCs when those abilities are spells. In 5e, there is no separate spell list for Evil and Good spellcasters. There are no Law, Chaos domains, etc. Also, if one of my players ask about the spell, I want to be able to give them an honest answer without saying "I just made it up. LOL" I'm not one of those DMs that let their players use Silvery Barbs or Confusion and somehow "forgets" that enemy NPCs can use those spells as well. That reverse is also true. If I give my enemy NPCs a spell, I always have it in the back of my mind that the PCs could potentially learn the spell as well. That's how I run my games, thankyouverymuch.
If you want to keep it as vampiric touch, the spell PCs can learn for themselves... it already has rules for scaling. Just have the NPC/monster upcast it if you want it to do more damage/heal more HP
If instead you do want to tweak it beyond simple upcasting, just call it Draining Grasp or whatever and make it a magical ability and not a spell. Your hostile cleric/warlock got it as a boon from their god/patron. Boom, now you don't have to worry about PCs getting their hands on it, no matter how "unbalanced" or "optimized" you think it is
You really seem to be going out of your way to overcomplicate things for yourself
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so it sounds like you're wanting the spell to be a bit better so a monster can use it, and also be balanced if players seek to use it too, is that about right?
Have to agree that as a 3rd level spell, and needing to be a melee spell attack to boot, it's a bit meh.
I would perhaps go as simple as dealing "3d6 plus your spellcasting ability modifier" of damage, for a flat increase of probably +4. Thats +2 healing as well, and it lasts for several rounds.
Not so helpful on a Monster, but a Monster could be written as:
Multiattack: The Vampiric Echidna makes 2 melee attacks, or makes one melee attack and uses Vampiric Touch, if the spell is active.
This uses the whole "monsters don't play by PC rules" and keeps the spell balanced for PC use - the monster can attack and siphon life.
As an alternative alternative, you could remake the spell as:
"Make a melee attack as part of this spell, if the attack hits the target takes an additional 2d6 necrotic damage and you regain half of that. On each subsequent turn, immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can use a bonus action to cause the target to take 2d6 additional necrotic damage, and regain half of that."
That way it's less damage as it'll stack with Smite and Sneak Attack, and you don't want that to spiral out of control.
As another Alternative:
Cast as a reaction, concentration 1 minute: When you hit a target with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to cast thit spell, dealing 3d6 necrotic damage and healing half. For the spells duration, you can use your reaction when you hit a target with a melee attack to repeat this effect. upcasting does more dice."
Something like that.
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Wouldn't this be sorta neat on a multiclass character? Like, fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard? Fighter could action surge to cast, then attack, rogue could cast then attack from stealth - both using Shield to avoid damage, and heal-tanking to their hearts content.
Maaybe not hugely optimized, but a fun gimmick none the less. I have to say, a nicely built rogue that heals while sneak attacking would be kinda cool, even if other builds might do more.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Half of 3d6 back each round, so maybe 5 HP of healing - and you need to be at least 5th level to cast it, when the incoming damage will be way more than the 5 HP that you get healed from this attack.
That is correct. I'm not totally sure I see your point. You feel 5 less damage each round is too little? It's a lot better than Heroism, which I've seen decide many battles. Anyways the average would be 7,5. They would stack, though, that's neat. I suppose a sorcerer/barbarian could go rather a long way: Vampiric Touch, Heroism, and 12xShield. Plus Rage, for further damage reduction.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you're going that route, fighter/sorcerer -- Quickened vampiric touch as a bonus action, second use on the turn as an action, third use on the same turn with Action Surge
Really, the utility of the spell is that it's one of the very few ways arcane casters can heal themselves
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
One of the more frustrating rules blocks this - if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, you can only cast cantrips (no levelled spells) for the rest of the turn.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
You're not recasting the spell. You're just maintaining concentration on it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Would changing casting time to BAction and getting rid of the concentration requirement be too powerful if I ALSO homebrew a spell that causes AoE vulnerability to all necrotic damage, one that requires concentration?
Then it doesn't qualify for Quickened Spell, which requires the casting of a spell.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
My dude
You Quicken vampiric touch as you cast it, which makes it a bonus action to cast. You attack once with it as part of the casting
Maintaining concentration on it, you then use your action on that same turn to make a second attack, which you can do because the spell says:
Continuing to maintain concentration, you then use Action Surge for another action on the same turn, and a third attack
There are actually a small handful of spells, most of which get dismissed as "not worth casting" the same way vampiric touch is, that contain similar "Until the spell ends, do X as an action" language and which you can double/triple up on in a turn using Quickened Spell
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think if you're going that route for a monster stat block, just turn it into a reaction -- [spell[hellish rebuke[/spell] but necrotic and with a healing component. The existing necromancer wizard (and the old version from Volo's) already has a similar reaction, Grim Harvest, which is less useful since it only triggers on a kill
But yeah, if you're giving the enemy caster a concentration spell that inflicts vulnerability to necrotic, you're kind of asking for a TPK if you then stack it with consistent sources of necrotic damage
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)