Lots of original ideas are bad when you look back at them. History is full of examples of this. But no one has quite articulated why this particular idea is bad.
No-one has said they're getting rid of the abyss being chaotic evil either.
Lots of original ideas are bad when you look back at them. History is full of examples of this. But no one has quite articulated why this particular idea is bad.
No-one has said they're getting rid of the abyss being chaotic evil either.
Correct. That hasn't stopped people from falling over themselves to defend their making that change were they to do so.
If people want their characters to be able to adopt cute fluffy abyssal horrors they can talk to their DMs and make that happen. But they should stop trying to colonise others' tables so what they want is what the rest of us then have to homebrew out of our own games.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
Since Planescape was built around the alignment wheel of planes, I'd expect it to still be there, but it's possible they're going to change it, because it doesn't really make sense.
They go on to talk about how to "fix" it.
It's hard to tell if you've just not bothered to read the whole thread before you make assumptions about what others have and have not said. Or if you're just lying. Either way I am no longer having this conversation with you because whether you've not caught up or you're being disingenuous so you can just post insults I'd say you're hardly equipped to be telling me what has and has not been said by others.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
Yes. What you're quoting is (a) written after you started complaining about changing the Abyss, and (b) doesn't have anything to do with changing the Abyss.
Yes. What you're quoting is (a) written after you started complaining about changing the Abyss, and (b) doesn't have anything to do with changing the Abyss.
Me: One page ago someone was saying if Planescape's cosmology is changed it will be because "it doesn't make sense." And that it should be "fixed."
You: "The only person to actually say that was you."
Me: [quotes someone saying that]
You: "But that's after you mentioned the Abyss and isn't about the Abyss."
Before or after whenever it was said you were wrong when you said I was the only person to say that. And the very post you responded to when you said I was the only person to say that made no mention of the Abyss. Are you done?
INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
More PC species. Why not Elysian dragonborns? They would be to sell toys.
The return of planar dragons, and also the paraelementals and quasielementals. What about the ethergaunts and the kaorti? Or the cranial encyster from Dragon magazine #330.
A reimaginated version of the infinite staircase to can add elements of the mythology of the backrooms.
Not only about the factions but the sects and ex-factions.
Lore about the Gate-towns, where the faction war could continue outskirts of Sigil.
The return of the plane of the mirror, but showing more plot-hooks besided the opposite-aligment clone. Any new about the mysterious nerras?
It's such a shame that this is coming out now - I just finished a ~3-15 level major arc in my homebrew campaign all about Planescape, Sigil, and the Outlands.
It was really fun exploring the factions and the mystery of the Lady (I used some older Planescape material as inspiration) but I would've loved to see what they do with it officially in 5e. Oh well, I guess that's just the way it goes sometimes.
Oh, and I'm really looking forward to WoTC changing the Abyss to be a cotton candy filled happy paradise ;)
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Just thought of a few things. I’d actually like to see the return of the Klurichir from 3rd Edition. In some ways, they should never have existed. They were more powerful than either the Balor or the Molydeus, the capstone Demons before unique demons or demon lords. However, the Klurichir was crazy scary looking and I feel it would have served well as a replacement to the Balor. The Balor has never really sat all that well with me. While it’s obviously influenced (very, very heavily influenced) by Tolkien’s Balrog, it’s basically a copy in appearance to the Pit Fiend. Also, wasn’t the Balrog described as being a shadow darker than night that set itself aflame or something? Don’t have the books with me but that would help differentiate it from the Pit Fiend.
Just thought of a few things. I’d actually like to see the return of the Klurichir from 3rd Edition. In some ways, they should never have existed. They were more powerful than either the Balor or the Molydeus, the capstone Demons before unique demons or demon lords.
The klurichir was in 4th edition as well, though there it's less powerful than either the balor or the molydeus.
Just thought of a few things. I’d actually like to see the return of the Klurichir from 3rd Edition. In some ways, they should never have existed. They were more powerful than either the Balor or the Molydeus, the capstone Demons before unique demons or demon lords.
The klurichir was in 4th edition as well, though there it's less powerful than either the balor or the molydeus.
Man, I don’t remember that at all. Kinda sucks it was changed to being less powerful than the Balor. In one of the Silence of Lolth books, it was summoned to take on a battalion of Yugoloths and the bargaining between it and the summoner was scary.
Man, I don’t remember that at all. Kinda sucks it was changed to being less powerful than the Balor. In one of the Silence of Lolth books, it was summoned to take on a battalion of Yugoloths and the bargaining between it and the summoner was scary.
Balor is level 27 elite, Klurichir is level 28 standard, Molydeus is level 29 elite. Not sure why it wasn't turned into an elite, I guess they wanted some more high level standards.
It's a kinda boring monster; 4e had some monsters with fun mechanics, but none of the higher level demons qualify (I do like one of the pit fiend's tricks, though: it targets one of its minions and forces it to move and explode).
Having seen the preview blurb for the box set, I'm more than a little saddened to see that there's what looks to be a rather small pool of player options coming. Two backgrounds, seven feats - Understanding of course, that that's pretty much on par with any other release, mind you! I'd just hoped that given the scale of the setting that there'd be... more?
Though, I think the things that brought me down the most were that the focus appears to be post-faction war Sigil, with the revamped twelve factions rather than the original fifteen. I'm hoping the exiled, pre-merged and defunct factions at least get a mention.
And silly though it may be, the biggest thing was the DM Screen. At a glance, it just... doesn't say Planescape to me. Sure - There's a few monodrones and the Spire, but I'd kinda been holding out to the hope that the artwork Tony DiTerlizzi (The returning Planescape artist) released back in March was going to be the DM Screen included in the three-book set. - Tony DiTerlizzi on Twitter: "When the Lady of Pain requests my presence back in Planescape, how can I refuse? https://t.co/8m4Kg2pvN8" / Twitter Desperately hoping that there's a special edition/alt art release with it.
@Aceofrogues My point being that WOTC cannot even be bothered to do that. I'm not a fan of A.I in the context of writing, but being 100% honest - I don't think it's "that much" worse than the actual Spelljammer "content" we got and is actually about equal in terms of writing quality. Your viewpoint is certainly valid - I've posted "some slop" from chatGPT - that is definitely 100% bad writing.
I'd ask you how you compare/rate that the what we've been given in WOTC products of late.
@Pantagruel - "that is the joke" for now at least.
It took me all of about 5 seconds to generate that, yet we're getting 2x additional backgrounds and some other (inevitable) slop that's probably on par with an AI creation, yet it's coming at a bargain price.
This was potentially on of the things on the release schedule I'd managed to brew up some excitement for, but having seen the sales blurb I'll pass on a purchase.
My solution is to just stop buying product and work on my own campaign - it might end up in Sigil, but at that point - it's mostly going to be RP and stat blocks will be incidental at most - so I'd rather concentrate on that and incidentally laugh at WOTC and their... bizarre attitude to "product".
What I am disappointed about is that this would have been the perfect book to add in the planetouched races from previous editions in the game, where there were fiend-touched versions of elves (fey'ri), dwarves (maeluth) and halflings (wisplings) that were unique themselves with tieflings being humans touched by the lower planes instead of everything being a tiefling. Not to mention elemental variants of races like the azerblood (dwarves) and d'hin'ni (halflings) to complement the genasi and sea elves.
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No-one has said they're getting rid of the abyss being chaotic evil either.
Correct. That hasn't stopped people from falling over themselves to defend their making that change were they to do so.
If people want their characters to be able to adopt cute fluffy abyssal horrors they can talk to their DMs and make that happen. But they should stop trying to colonise others' tables so what they want is what the rest of us then have to homebrew out of our own games.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Is that so?
They go on to talk about how to "fix" it.
It's hard to tell if you've just not bothered to read the whole thread before you make assumptions about what others have and have not said. Or if you're just lying. Either way I am no longer having this conversation with you because whether you've not caught up or you're being disingenuous so you can just post insults I'd say you're hardly equipped to be telling me what has and has not been said by others.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Yes. What you're quoting is (a) written after you started complaining about changing the Abyss, and (b) doesn't have anything to do with changing the Abyss.
Me: One page ago someone was saying if Planescape's cosmology is changed it will be because "it doesn't make sense." And that it should be "fixed."
You: "The only person to actually say that was you."
Me: [quotes someone saying that]
You: "But that's after you mentioned the Abyss and isn't about the Abyss."
Before or after whenever it was said you were wrong when you said I was the only person to say that. And the very post you responded to when you said I was the only person to say that made no mention of the Abyss. Are you done?
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
More PC species. Why not Elysian dragonborns? They would be to sell toys.
The return of planar dragons, and also the paraelementals and quasielementals. What about the ethergaunts and the kaorti? Or the cranial encyster from Dragon magazine #330.
A reimaginated version of the infinite staircase to can add elements of the mythology of the backrooms.
Not only about the factions but the sects and ex-factions.
Lore about the Gate-towns, where the faction war could continue outskirts of Sigil.
The return of the plane of the mirror, but showing more plot-hooks besided the opposite-aligment clone. Any new about the mysterious nerras?
It's such a shame that this is coming out now - I just finished a ~3-15 level major arc in my homebrew campaign all about Planescape, Sigil, and the Outlands.
It was really fun exploring the factions and the mystery of the Lady (I used some older Planescape material as inspiration) but I would've loved to see what they do with it officially in 5e. Oh well, I guess that's just the way it goes sometimes.
Oh, and I'm really looking forward to WoTC changing the Abyss to be a cotton candy filled happy paradise ;)
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Just thought of a few things. I’d actually like to see the return of the Klurichir from 3rd Edition. In some ways, they should never have existed. They were more powerful than either the Balor or the Molydeus, the capstone Demons before unique demons or demon lords. However, the Klurichir was crazy scary looking and I feel it would have served well as a replacement to the Balor. The Balor has never really sat all that well with me. While it’s obviously influenced (very, very heavily influenced) by Tolkien’s Balrog, it’s basically a copy in appearance to the Pit Fiend. Also, wasn’t the Balrog described as being a shadow darker than night that set itself aflame or something? Don’t have the books with me but that would help differentiate it from the Pit Fiend.
The klurichir was in 4th edition as well, though there it's less powerful than either the balor or the molydeus.
Man, I don’t remember that at all. Kinda sucks it was changed to being less powerful than the Balor. In one of the Silence of Lolth books, it was summoned to take on a battalion of Yugoloths and the bargaining between it and the summoner was scary.
Balor is level 27 elite, Klurichir is level 28 standard, Molydeus is level 29 elite. Not sure why it wasn't turned into an elite, I guess they wanted some more high level standards.
It's a kinda boring monster; 4e had some monsters with fun mechanics, but none of the higher level demons qualify (I do like one of the pit fiend's tricks, though: it targets one of its minions and forces it to move and explode).
Having seen the preview blurb for the box set, I'm more than a little saddened to see that there's what looks to be a rather small pool of player options coming.
Two backgrounds, seven feats - Understanding of course, that that's pretty much on par with any other release, mind you!
I'd just hoped that given the scale of the setting that there'd be... more?
Though, I think the things that brought me down the most were that the focus appears to be post-faction war Sigil, with the revamped twelve factions rather than the original fifteen. I'm hoping the exiled, pre-merged and defunct factions at least get a mention.
And silly though it may be, the biggest thing was the DM Screen. At a glance, it just... doesn't say Planescape to me. Sure - There's a few monodrones and the Spire, but I'd kinda been holding out to the hope that the artwork Tony DiTerlizzi (The returning Planescape artist) released back in March was going to be the DM Screen included in the three-book set. - Tony DiTerlizzi on Twitter: "When the Lady of Pain requests my presence back in Planescape, how can I refuse? https://t.co/8m4Kg2pvN8" / Twitter
Desperately hoping that there's a special edition/alt art release with it.
The WotC product page shows the alt art covers and DM screen for anyone that is interested: Planescape product page
Micro Transactions is "pay $1.99 for this particular monster", which has been an option on D&D Beyond for years.
@Aceofrogues My point being that WOTC cannot even be bothered to do that. I'm not a fan of A.I in the context of writing, but being 100% honest - I don't think it's "that much" worse than the actual Spelljammer "content" we got and is actually about equal in terms of writing quality. Your viewpoint is certainly valid - I've posted "some slop" from chatGPT - that is definitely 100% bad writing.
I'd ask you how you compare/rate that the what we've been given in WOTC products of late.
@Pantagruel - "that is the joke" for now at least.
It took me all of about 5 seconds to generate that, yet we're getting 2x additional backgrounds and some other (inevitable) slop that's probably on par with an AI creation, yet it's coming at a bargain price.
This was potentially on of the things on the release schedule I'd managed to brew up some excitement for, but having seen the sales blurb I'll pass on a purchase.
My solution is to just stop buying product and work on my own campaign - it might end up in Sigil, but at that point - it's mostly going to be RP and stat blocks will be incidental at most - so I'd rather concentrate on that and incidentally laugh at WOTC and their... bizarre attitude to "product".
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
-The Outlands part of Sigil and the Outlands to not be completely anemic.
-Celestials.
-Speaking of Klurichir, Obyrith and ancient Baatorians.
What I am disappointed about is that this would have been the perfect book to add in the planetouched races from previous editions in the game, where there were fiend-touched versions of elves (fey'ri), dwarves (maeluth) and halflings (wisplings) that were unique themselves with tieflings being humans touched by the lower planes instead of everything being a tiefling. Not to mention elemental variants of races like the azerblood (dwarves) and d'hin'ni (halflings) to complement the genasi and sea elves.