Telekinetic Reprisal. When you take damage from a creature that is within 10 feet of you, you can use your reaction to emanate telekinetic energy. The creature that dealt damage to you must make a Strength saving throw (DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat). On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is pushed up to 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn’t pushed. You can use this reaction a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
I'm looking for clarification. Like so many other things in the game, it seems poorly worded.
So, if the enemy is already 10ft away from me and fails the save, it would not move at all??
If the enemy is more than 10’ away, you can’t trigger the reaction at all. No damage, no move. This is an anti-melee ability. It dies nothing against ranged.
If the enemy is 10 feet away and hits you, they need to make a save. Failed save is 2d8 force damage and moved between 0 and 10 feet away from you (it says "up to" so you get to choose). If they pass their save they take half damage and are not moved.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
If the enemy is more than 10’ away, you can’t trigger the reaction at all. No damage, no move. This is an anti-melee ability. It dies nothing against ranged.
Yes, that's obvious. I'm asking about 10ft away, for polearms, larger creatures and Bugbears with reach.
If they are already 10 ft away and you push them, then once the effect resolves they can then be up to 20 ft from your current position. The effect doesn't say you can move them to 10 ft away from you, just that if they are affected they can be moved up to 10 ft back.
If they are already 10 ft away and you push them, then once the effect resolves they can then be up to 20 ft from your current position. The effect doesn't say you can move them to 10 ft away from you, just that if they are affected they can be moved up to 10 ft back.
"and is pushed up to 10 feet away from you" It does not read that way to me, although, I think that's what it should be. Maybe it should read: and is pushed up to 10 feet "further" away from you?
The "of you" is only in terms of relative direction, not final distance. You can't draw them closer with this or just shunt them sideways; they need to be moved in a direction that increases their distance from you. This is a very straightforward effect that's used in multiple places, you don't need to scrutinize the wording in detail.
The problem with the language presented in the thread is that it is ambiguous and can be interpreted in two different ways
It pushes the target 10ft in a direction a way from you. Which is to say, the sentence is read as "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is [pushed up to 10 feet] away from you
It pushes the target to a maximum distance of 10ft from you. Which is to say, the sentence.shkukd be read as "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is pushed up to [10 feet away from you]".
Both are valid interpretations. This, it's up to the DM to interpret and make a ruling on what it means.
For what it's worth, I'm not sure I can remember any of these questions instinctive reaction type features that allow the PC to precisely place where the enemy gets placed. Additionally, the flavour seems to be that it's a wave ("emanate...energy"), which would imply that it loses energy with distance. Both support the second interpretation - the creature gets deposited 10ft away from the Reactor.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The problem with the language presented in the thread is that it is ambiguous and can be interpreted in two different ways
It pushes the target 10ft in a direction a way from you. Which is to say, the sentence is read as "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is [pushed up to 10 feet] away from you
It pushes the target to a maximum distance of 10ft from you. Which is to say, the sentence.shkukd be read as "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is pushed up to [10 feet away from you]".
Both are valid interpretations. This, it's up to the DM to interpret and make a ruling on what it means.
For what it's worth, I'm not sure I can remember any of these questions instinctive reaction type features that allow the PC to precisely place where the enemy gets placed. Additionally, the flavour seems to be that it's a wave ("emanate...energy"), which would imply that it loses energy with distance. Both support the second interpretation - the creature gets deposited 10ft away from the Reactor.
Yeah, so then it would not move at all, which is ready dumb.
Yeah, so then it would not move at all, which is ready dumb.
Depends on why you're wanting them to move. 10ft based on a Reaction is rarely meaningful in and of itself. You can't normally realistically set it up so you're 15ft from a cliff edge, because can choose to move before attacking you. In 99% of cases that extra distance is meaningless. However, 10ft distance from you is a very meaningful distance - it puts them outside of melee range in most cases, allowing you to leave without an Attack of Opportunity or forcing you to use your Action to Disengage.
It's not really dumb, because it preserves the most mechanically relevant part while not having the rather awkward part of mechanics that someone up in your face gets the same treatment as someone right on the edge of your range.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It is meaningful if you consider that they would be 20ft away, not 10ft and you have slashed them for another -10ft of movement. And my polearm bugbear has a 15ft attack reach.
Anyway, when you read the spell, it's obvious, at least to me, how stupid it sounds.
I agree that the wording is ambiguous. I had always read it as up to 10 ft of movement, in a direction away from you, rather than to a maximum distance of 10 ft from you. I hadn’t realised that the latter interpretation, made by the OP, could be made. However, given that the wording can equally be taken either way, the fact that the OP’s reading creates the “stupid” situation of having no effect when the enemy is already 10 ft from the character, strongly indicates to me that the intention is that that enemy can be pushed to a final position 20 ft from the character.
Exactly the same wording of pushing a creature “up to 10 ft away from you” is used in the Unearthed Arcana Push weapon mastery feature. As the pike has both a 10 ft reach and the Push mastery feature, it would be helpful to have clarification on the intention of the rule.
Addendum: My son has just pointed out that the heavy crossbow also has the Push mastery feature. I think that makes it clear that the intention is that “push up to 10 ft away from you” indicates the maximum impelled movement of the creature, not maximum distance from you.
I agree that the wording is ambiguous. I had always read it as up to 10 ft of movement, in a direction away from you, rather than to a maximum distance of 10 ft from you. I hadn’t realised that the latter interpretation, made by the OP, could be made. However, given that the wording can equally be taken either way, the fact that the OP’s reading creates the “stupid” situation of having no effect when the enemy is already 10 ft from the character, strongly indicates to me that the intention is that that enemy can be pushed to a final position 20 ft from the character.
Exactly the same wording of pushing a creature “up to 10 ft away from you” is used in the Unearthed Arcana Push weapon mastery feature. As the pike has both a 10 ft reach and the Push mastery feature, it would be helpful to have clarification on the intention of the rule.
Addendum: My son has just pointed out that the heavy crossbow also has the Push mastery feature. I think that makes it clear that the intention is that “push up to 10 ft away from you” indicates the maximum impelled movement of the creature, not maximum distance from you.
I'm happy with that. I really want to "not be" engaged" with enemies. That's why I'm going with the Bugbear for Reach, Mobile, Aberrant Dragonmark for Expeditious Retreat, Slasher. Four of the other 5 players are much more range based, so I'm hoping to slow enemies down and they can pick them off. I also like "not" being a meat shield.
The problem with the language presented in the thread is that it is ambiguous and can be interpreted in two different ways
It pushes the target 10ft in a direction a way from you. Which is to say, the sentence is read as "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is [pushed up to 10 feet] away from you
It pushes the target to a maximum distance of 10ft from you. Which is to say, the sentence.shkukd be read as "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is pushed up to [10 feet away from you]".
Both are valid interpretations. This, it's up to the DM to interpret and make a ruling on what it means.
For what it's worth, I'm not sure I can remember any of these questions instinctive reaction type features that allow the PC to precisely place where the enemy gets placed. Additionally, the flavour seems to be that it's a wave ("emanate...energy"), which would imply that it loses energy with distance. Both support the second interpretation - the creature gets deposited 10ft away from the Reactor.
Both 1 and 2 mean the exact same thing. Putting little boxes around different parts of the sentence in no way changes the meaning of the said sentence.
It isn’t really remotely ambiguous. If the enemy was 5 ft away and fails the save it is pushed backwards and ends up 15 ft away. If they were 10 ft away then they are now 20 ft away. Stop looking for super secret ‘cheat codes’ hidden in the exact dictionary definition of the words and play the game. It was written so 6 year olds could play not 21 year old Oxford University English language honours degree graduates. Play the game, have fun, lose yourselves in your imagination. The ‘rules’ can and should be changed by every dm to suit their players. That’s the very first and only important rule in the game.
Well, do I really get to choose, if they're already 10ft from me? Can it move them 20ft from me?
Yes, you get to choose because it says up to 10feet not just 10 feet.
If they are 1 foot away from you, you could move them from 1 foot to 11 feet away from you. If they are 10 feet away from you, you can push them up to 20 feet away from you.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
When one interpretation doesn't make any sense. it's not really "valid"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Both 1 and 2 mean the exact same thing. Putting little boxes around different parts of the sentence in no way changes the meaning of the said sentence.
No, they don't. That you can't tell the difference between red and orange doesn't mean there is no difference - it means you can't perceive the difference. That's a very different situation.
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Telekinetic Reprisal. When you take damage from a creature that is within 10 feet of you, you can use your reaction to emanate telekinetic energy. The creature that dealt damage to you must make a Strength saving throw (DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat). On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 force damage and is pushed up to 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn’t pushed. You can use this reaction a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
I'm looking for clarification. Like so many other things in the game, it seems poorly worded.
So, if the enemy is already 10ft away from me and fails the save, it would not move at all??
If the enemy is more than 10’ away, you can’t trigger the reaction at all. No damage, no move. This is an anti-melee ability. It dies nothing against ranged.
If the enemy is 10 feet away and hits you, they need to make a save. Failed save is 2d8 force damage and moved between 0 and 10 feet away from you (it says "up to" so you get to choose). If they pass their save they take half damage and are not moved.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Well, do I really get to choose, if they're already 10ft from me? Can it move them 20ft from me?
Yes, that's obvious. I'm asking about 10ft away, for polearms, larger creatures and Bugbears with reach.
If they are already 10 ft away and you push them, then once the effect resolves they can then be up to 20 ft from your current position. The effect doesn't say you can move them to 10 ft away from you, just that if they are affected they can be moved up to 10 ft back.
"and is pushed up to 10 feet away from you" It does not read that way to me, although, I think that's what it should be. Maybe it should read: and is pushed up to 10 feet "further" away from you?
Within 10ft of you: The target can not be further than 10ft of you in order for you to activate this.
Pushed up to 10ft away from you: On a failed save, the target, if starting 10ft from you at time of activation, will now be 20ft away from you.
Rather straightforward in its wording
Up to 10ft away from "you" is still 10ft.
The "of you" is only in terms of relative direction, not final distance. You can't draw them closer with this or just shunt them sideways; they need to be moved in a direction that increases their distance from you. This is a very straightforward effect that's used in multiple places, you don't need to scrutinize the wording in detail.
The problem with the language presented in the thread is that it is ambiguous and can be interpreted in two different ways
Both are valid interpretations. This, it's up to the DM to interpret and make a ruling on what it means.
For what it's worth, I'm not sure I can remember any of these questions instinctive reaction type features that allow the PC to precisely place where the enemy gets placed. Additionally, the flavour seems to be that it's a wave ("emanate...energy"), which would imply that it loses energy with distance. Both support the second interpretation - the creature gets deposited 10ft away from the Reactor.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeah, so then it would not move at all, which is ready dumb.
Depends on why you're wanting them to move. 10ft based on a Reaction is rarely meaningful in and of itself. You can't normally realistically set it up so you're 15ft from a cliff edge, because can choose to move before attacking you. In 99% of cases that extra distance is meaningless. However, 10ft distance from you is a very meaningful distance - it puts them outside of melee range in most cases, allowing you to leave without an Attack of Opportunity or forcing you to use your Action to Disengage.
It's not really dumb, because it preserves the most mechanically relevant part while not having the rather awkward part of mechanics that someone up in your face gets the same treatment as someone right on the edge of your range.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It is meaningful if you consider that they would be 20ft away, not 10ft and you have slashed them for another -10ft of movement. And my polearm bugbear has a 15ft attack reach.
Anyway, when you read the spell, it's obvious, at least to me, how stupid it sounds.
I agree that the wording is ambiguous. I had always read it as up to 10 ft of movement, in a direction away from you, rather than to a maximum distance of 10 ft from you. I hadn’t realised that the latter interpretation, made by the OP, could be made. However, given that the wording can equally be taken either way, the fact that the OP’s reading creates the “stupid” situation of having no effect when the enemy is already 10 ft from the character, strongly indicates to me that the intention is that that enemy can be pushed to a final position 20 ft from the character.
Exactly the same wording of pushing a creature “up to 10 ft away from you” is used in the Unearthed Arcana Push weapon mastery feature. As the pike has both a 10 ft reach and the Push mastery feature, it would be helpful to have clarification on the intention of the rule.
Addendum: My son has just pointed out that the heavy crossbow also has the Push mastery feature. I think that makes it clear that the intention is that “push up to 10 ft away from you” indicates the maximum impelled movement of the creature, not maximum distance from you.
I'm happy with that. I really want to "not be" engaged" with enemies. That's why I'm going with the Bugbear for Reach, Mobile, Aberrant Dragonmark for Expeditious Retreat, Slasher. Four of the other 5 players are much more range based, so I'm hoping to slow enemies down and they can pick them off. I also like "not" being a meat shield.
Both 1 and 2 mean the exact same thing. Putting little boxes around different parts of the sentence in no way changes the meaning of the said sentence.
It isn’t really remotely ambiguous. If the enemy was 5 ft away and fails the save it is pushed backwards and ends up 15 ft away. If they were 10 ft away then they are now 20 ft away. Stop looking for super secret ‘cheat codes’ hidden in the exact dictionary definition of the words and play the game. It was written so 6 year olds could play not 21 year old Oxford University English language honours degree graduates. Play the game, have fun, lose yourselves in your imagination. The ‘rules’ can and should be changed by every dm to suit their players. That’s the very first and only important rule in the game.
Yes, you get to choose because it says up to 10 feet not just 10 feet.
If they are 1 foot away from you, you could move them from 1 foot to 11 feet away from you. If they are 10 feet away from you, you can push them up to 20 feet away from you.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
When one interpretation doesn't make any sense. it's not really "valid"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
No, they don't. That you can't tell the difference between red and orange doesn't mean there is no difference - it means you can't perceive the difference. That's a very different situation.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.