If humans start reproducing at 20 years old(I know its younger but 20 makes math easier) 100 years(max human age) that is 5 human generations.
If elves start reproducing at 20 years old and live 1000 years( max elf age) that is 50 elf generations. How much more would elves get done in a single life span than humans? How much could they learn in that 1000 years? How much power and wealth could they accumulate?
Their only limit game wise is 20 levels, just like humans.
Why are the long lived races not the real rulers of any world they exist in?
The roman empire lasted less than 1000 years and that was with rulers who died 50 years on average. How long would an elf empire last with? How large would it grow in just 2000 years? Only 3 or 4 life times for an elf.
Made up excuses like "the elves just do not care so they wouldn't do it" are week and ignore how players play elves.
1st: Elves don't start producing at 20 years old. They don't age at teh same rate as humans and only live longer, they age slower as so reproduce later. Elves also don't reproduce as quickly as humans when they do start. A human couple can produce at least 1 child every ear, so from 20 to say 50, that is 30 children. A polyamorous family can produce many more than that. Elves have longer pregnancies and also fewer pregnancies.
In my headcannon at the very least, I don't know if I picked this up somewhere else:
There are only a specific number of elven souls in existence. A number equal to the drops of blood shed by Corellon in his fight with Gruumsh. There can never be any more elves at a time than this number. Pregnancies are arrested at a certain stage in developement like with sebations from Farscape, and only continue when a soul becomes available for the child. Elven souls are recycled via a series of reincarnations. A lot of new elves don't get born at once unless a lot of older ones die at once, like in a war.
Furthermore, inspite of how wonderful non elves think elves are |;-p. Elves do not actually enjoy 'being elves'. In the lore they were persuaded by Arushnee (Lolth) into abandoning their lives as fey-spirits to take on a mortal form instead. This was a mistake that they regret and that got them punished with said cycle of reincarnation. Elves try in every life to atone for this and be forgiven by Correllon. Sometimes they succeed and do not have to reincarnate as an elf again but can instead become another kind of sylvan creature such as Dryad. Thus over time, the number of elves on the material plane is gradually reducing; not increasing.
Elves had their day and their empires, but as with the inspiration from Tolkien, the time of the elves is passing and the age of humans has dawned.
That is a very old school take on races, where non-humans (or anyone deemed non-human) are literally defined as inferior. The more progressive version is that elves simply reproduce slower but make up for it with longer lives. This likely does mean, however, that most elven societies would place that much higher a value on life. In my world, for similar reasons, you are unlikely to knowingly meet a dragon. Next to none of them operate in the open, due to being targets for any power mad idiot who decides them a threat or just wants their parts for enchanting/experiments/whatever. 'Everyone else' has many thousands of lives to lose, collectively. The dragon only has one.
There is also the problem that, if you define elves as learning slower due to their long life spans, what does that mean for PC elves? Should they have xp penalties that have absolutely nothing to do with play balance but are there only so someone's headcannon regarding technological progress fits? It is far easier to simply declare that tech either advances slower, or frankly, that most tech does not work at all. The steam engine is not that difficult and the metallurgy is certainly there. Gunpowder is really easy and is mostly just a factor of having the metallurgy to contain/direct the force. All that fine mechanical work that goes into those elabourate traps in so many dungeons can go into firing and loading mechanisms just as easily.... if the gunpowder reaction works.
However, this is a world setting where you can have explosions that are pure with respect to energy. Fireballs are heat only with no force component at all, not even from super-heating the air in the impact area. Not all fires even start fires. Damaging levels of light do not have heat components. Momentum, itself, does not exist (per movement rules). It is so very NOT the same world we live in. Most tech as we know it simply does not function in such a world.
My arguments against long lived races with no penalties against them have nothing to do with technology but everything to do with skills and learning in game styles. In accumulation of wealth and power in game over time.
If it can take a player character just a few years of active adventuring to accumulate the experiences to be level 20 in their chosen field, why are the elves restricted to the same limits? In any logical world they should be able to gain 20th level in every class.They have the time and as player characters they have the will and desire.
In the old games the long lived races did have Xp limits, ability limits, skill limits and class limits. This tended to even things out a bit. Racial animosity and or jealousy kept the races in their own groups witch keeps problems between them down. (I know why in 5E ......but its not logical). But not now, everyone is happy to live together and racial diversity is swept under the rug(its still there but not acknowledged) so now the worst race to be is human, the game tries to level things out by creating the new variant human and giving them a free feat but that is just a weak acknowledgement of the core game problem and not a real solution.
If humans start reproducing at 20 years old(I know its younger but 20 makes math easier) 100 years(max human age) that is 5 human generations.
If elves start reproducing at 20 years old and live 1000 years( max elf age) that is 50 elf generations. How much more would elves get done in a single life span than humans? How much could they learn in that 1000 years? How much power and wealth could they accumulate?
Their only limit game wise is 20 levels, just like humans.
Why are the long lived races not the real rulers of any world they exist in?
The roman empire lasted less than 1000 years and that was with rulers who died 50 years on average. How long would an elf empire last with? How large would it grow in just 2000 years? Only 3 or 4 life times for an elf.
Made up excuses like "the elves just do not care so they wouldn't do it" are week and ignore how players play elves.
1st: Elves don't start producing at 20 years old. They don't age at teh same rate as humans and only live longer, they age slower as so reproduce later. Elves also don't reproduce as quickly as humans when they do start. A human couple can produce at least 1 child every ear, so from 20 to say 50, that is 30 children. A polyamorous family can produce many more than that. Elves have longer pregnancies and also fewer pregnancies.
In my headcannon at the very least, I don't know if I picked this up somewhere else:
There are only a specific number of elven souls in existence. A number equal to the drops of blood shed by Corellon in his fight with Gruumsh. There can never be any more elves at a time than this number. Pregnancies are arrested at a certain stage in developement like with sebations from Farscape, and only continue when a soul becomes available for the child. Elven souls are recycled via a series of reincarnations. A lot of new elves don't get born at once unless a lot of older ones die at once, like in a war.
Furthermore, inspite of how wonderful non elves think elves are |;-p. Elves do not actually enjoy 'being elves'. In the lore they were persuaded by Arushnee (Lolth) into abandoning their lives as fey-spirits to take on a mortal form instead. This was a mistake that they regret and that got them punished with said cycle of reincarnation. Elves try in every life to atone for this and be forgiven by Correllon. Sometimes they succeed and do not have to reincarnate as an elf again but can instead become another kind of sylvan creature such as Dryad. Thus over time, the number of elves on the material plane is gradually reducing; not increasing.
Elves had their day and their empires, but as with the inspiration from Tolkien, the time of the elves is passing and the age of humans has dawned.
That is a very old school take on races, where non-humans (or anyone deemed non-human) are literally defined as inferior. The more progressive version is that elves simply reproduce slower but make up for it with longer lives. This likely does mean, however, that most elven societies would place that much higher a value on life. In my world, for similar reasons, you are unlikely to knowingly meet a dragon. Next to none of them operate in the open, due to being targets for any power mad idiot who decides them a threat or just wants their parts for enchanting/experiments/whatever. 'Everyone else' has many thousands of lives to lose, collectively. The dragon only has one.
There is also the problem that, if you define elves as learning slower due to their long life spans, what does that mean for PC elves? Should they have xp penalties that have absolutely nothing to do with play balance but are there only so someone's headcannon regarding technological progress fits? It is far easier to simply declare that tech either advances slower, or frankly, that most tech does not work at all. The steam engine is not that difficult and the metallurgy is certainly there. Gunpowder is really easy and is mostly just a factor of having the metallurgy to contain/direct the force. All that fine mechanical work that goes into those elabourate traps in so many dungeons can go into firing and loading mechanisms just as easily.... if the gunpowder reaction works.
However, this is a world setting where you can have explosions that are pure with respect to energy. Fireballs are heat only with no force component at all, not even from super-heating the air in the impact area. Not all fires even start fires. Damaging levels of light do not have heat components. Momentum, itself, does not exist (per movement rules). It is so very NOT the same world we live in. Most tech as we know it simply does not function in such a world.
My arguments against long lived races with no penalties against them have nothing to do with technology but everything to do with skills and learning in game styles. In accumulation of wealth and power in game over time.
If it can take a player character just a few years of active adventuring to accumulate the experiences to be level 20 in their chosen field, why are the elves restricted to the same limits? In any logical world they should be able to gain 20th level in every class.They have the time and as player characters they have the will and desire.
In the old games the long lived races did have Xp limits, ability limits, skill limits and class limits. This tended to even things out a bit. Racial animosity and or jealousy kept the races in their own groups witch keeps problems between them down. (I know why in 5E ......but its not logical). But not now, everyone is happy to live together and racial diversity is swept under the rug(its still there but not acknowledged) so now the worst race to be is human, the game tries to level things out by creating the new variant human and giving them a free feat but that is just a weak acknowledgement of the core game problem and not a real solution.
Maybe they don’t always have the will throughout their lifetimes? Maybe only a rarity of them ever have the will and, even then, they have it for only an exceedingly short (relatively-speaking) portion of their lives?
If humans start reproducing at 20 years old(I know its younger but 20 makes math easier) 100 years(max human age) that is 5 human generations.
If elves start reproducing at 20 years old and live 1000 years( max elf age) that is 50 elf generations. How much more would elves get done in a single life span than humans? How much could they learn in that 1000 years? How much power and wealth could they accumulate?
Their only limit game wise is 20 levels, just like humans.
Why are the long lived races not the real rulers of any world they exist in?
The roman empire lasted less than 1000 years and that was with rulers who died 50 years on average. How long would an elf empire last with? How large would it grow in just 2000 years? Only 3 or 4 life times for an elf.
Made up excuses like "the elves just do not care so they wouldn't do it" are week and ignore how players play elves.
1st: Elves don't start producing at 20 years old. They don't age at teh same rate as humans and only live longer, they age slower as so reproduce later. Elves also don't reproduce as quickly as humans when they do start. A human couple can produce at least 1 child every ear, so from 20 to say 50, that is 30 children. A polyamorous family can produce many more than that. Elves have longer pregnancies and also fewer pregnancies.
In my headcannon at the very least, I don't know if I picked this up somewhere else:
There are only a specific number of elven souls in existence. A number equal to the drops of blood shed by Corellon in his fight with Gruumsh. There can never be any more elves at a time than this number. Pregnancies are arrested at a certain stage in developement like with sebations from Farscape, and only continue when a soul becomes available for the child. Elven souls are recycled via a series of reincarnations. A lot of new elves don't get born at once unless a lot of older ones die at once, like in a war.
Furthermore, inspite of how wonderful non elves think elves are |;-p. Elves do not actually enjoy 'being elves'. In the lore they were persuaded by Arushnee (Lolth) into abandoning their lives as fey-spirits to take on a mortal form instead. This was a mistake that they regret and that got them punished with said cycle of reincarnation. Elves try in every life to atone for this and be forgiven by Correllon. Sometimes they succeed and do not have to reincarnate as an elf again but can instead become another kind of sylvan creature such as Dryad. Thus over time, the number of elves on the material plane is gradually reducing; not increasing.
Elves had their day and their empires, but as with the inspiration from Tolkien, the time of the elves is passing and the age of humans has dawned.
That is a very old school take on races, where non-humans (or anyone deemed non-human) are literally defined as inferior. The more progressive version is that elves simply reproduce slower but make up for it with longer lives. This likely does mean, however, that most elven societies would place that much higher a value on life. In my world, for similar reasons, you are unlikely to knowingly meet a dragon. Next to none of them operate in the open, due to being targets for any power mad idiot who decides them a threat or just wants their parts for enchanting/experiments/whatever. 'Everyone else' has many thousands of lives to lose, collectively. The dragon only has one.
There is also the problem that, if you define elves as learning slower due to their long life spans, what does that mean for PC elves? Should they have xp penalties that have absolutely nothing to do with play balance but are there only so someone's headcannon regarding technological progress fits? It is far easier to simply declare that tech either advances slower, or frankly, that most tech does not work at all. The steam engine is not that difficult and the metallurgy is certainly there. Gunpowder is really easy and is mostly just a factor of having the metallurgy to contain/direct the force. All that fine mechanical work that goes into those elabourate traps in so many dungeons can go into firing and loading mechanisms just as easily.... if the gunpowder reaction works.
However, this is a world setting where you can have explosions that are pure with respect to energy. Fireballs are heat only with no force component at all, not even from super-heating the air in the impact area. Not all fires even start fires. Damaging levels of light do not have heat components. Momentum, itself, does not exist (per movement rules). It is so very NOT the same world we live in. Most tech as we know it simply does not function in such a world.
My arguments against long lived races with no penalties against them have nothing to do with technology but everything to do with skills and learning in game styles. In accumulation of wealth and power in game over time.
If it can take a player character just a few years of active adventuring to accumulate the experiences to be level 20 in their chosen field, why are the elves restricted to the same limits? In any logical world they should be able to gain 20th level in every class.They have the time and as player characters they have the will and desire.
In the old games the long lived races did have Xp limits, ability limits, skill limits and class limits. This tended to even things out a bit. Racial animosity and or jealousy kept the races in their own groups witch keeps problems between them down. (I know why in 5E ......but its not logical). But not now, everyone is happy to live together and racial diversity is swept under the rug(its still there but not acknowledged) so now the worst race to be is human, the game tries to level things out by creating the new variant human and giving them a free feat but that is just a weak acknowledgement of the core game problem and not a real solution.
Player characters are not typical of the adventurer experience. Most adventurers don't have the DM carefully curating their encounters, so they're either just gonna stay minor league because they don't get into major encounters, or they get into them before it's a level appropriate encounter and get killed.
There's a very modest plan, but I don't know if Western culture can support this, but in China, it can definitely be implemented.
You can have the emperor in the background of the game issue the Industrial Prohibition Order and declare that all people in society who break the law will be wanted and imprisoned, and will eventually be sentenced to death on Judgment Day. You can also add the Qin Dynasty system of joint sitting, which allowed the personnel involved in the creation of nuclear bombs and all their families, relatives, friends, and children to be implicated. In China, we call it the Yijiu tribe.
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My arguments against long lived races with no penalties against them have nothing to do with technology but everything to do with skills and learning in game styles. In accumulation of wealth and power in game over time.
If it can take a player character just a few years of active adventuring to accumulate the experiences to be level 20 in their chosen field, why are the elves restricted to the same limits? In any logical world they should be able to gain 20th level in every class.They have the time and as player characters they have the will and desire.
In the old games the long lived races did have Xp limits, ability limits, skill limits and class limits. This tended to even things out a bit.
Racial animosity and or jealousy kept the races in their own groups witch keeps problems between them down. (I know why in 5E ......but its not logical).
But not now, everyone is happy to live together and racial diversity is swept under the rug(its still there but not acknowledged) so now the worst race to be is human, the game tries to level things out by creating the new variant human and giving them a free feat but that is just a weak acknowledgement of the core game problem and not a real solution.
Maybe they don’t always have the will throughout their lifetimes? Maybe only a rarity of them ever have the will and, even then, they have it for only an exceedingly short (relatively-speaking) portion of their lives?
Player characters are not typical of the adventurer experience. Most adventurers don't have the DM carefully curating their encounters, so they're either just gonna stay minor league because they don't get into major encounters, or they get into them before it's a level appropriate encounter and get killed.
pov: the wizard and the artificer become friends有一个很温和的方案，不过问我不知道西方文化的具体是否能支持这样，不过这在中国，是一定能够实施的。
你可以让你游戏背景中的皇帝颁布《工业禁止令》并宣布所有违法的社会人员将被通缉并入狱，最终将在审判日处以极刑。另外你还可以加上秦朝时期的连坐制度，这个制度可以让参与制造核弹的人员及其所有家人亲戚朋友子女统统被牵连。在中国我们称之为夷九族。
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There's a very modest plan, but I don't know if Western culture can support this, but in China, it can definitely be implemented.
You can have the emperor in the background of the game issue the Industrial Prohibition Order and declare that all people in society who break the law will be wanted and imprisoned, and will eventually be sentenced to death on Judgment Day. You can also add the Qin Dynasty system of joint sitting, which allowed the personnel involved in the creation of nuclear bombs and all their families, relatives, friends, and children to be implicated. In China, we call it the Yijiu tribe.