@kotath, I think you realize it too, but just to bring it home, the designers of the 2024 update themselves claim and set the expectation that 2014 should be compatible and transferable (based on some rules), including them referring to exceptions in the new PHB. So in this case, it must be supported via the dndbeyond digital platform, otherwise rendering it broken for previously bought content.
I do not have faith that they will hodgepodge literal dozens of what will be legacy subclasses into the new classes and give that away as free content. Why? It's then free content.
Free? What are you talking about?! The whole thread is based on the premise you bought it already in the past, and about it not becoming irrelevant within the digital ecosystem that is dnd beyond. If it was bought and integrated prior to the 2024 hb and is now not usable, it is hence broken.
If they introduce homebrew variants of those subclasses, they are giving that content away for free. They could tag those variants as being part of their original source material in order for people to unlock it, but now you're selling content here that is fundamentally different in how it's being sold in other marketplaces. I don't think other platforms would very much like that, and who knows if it invalidates other agreements.
You own that content in the 2014 space, in the 2014 context. You do not own that content in the 2024 space, in the 2024 context.
If you cannot use 2014 subclasses with 2024 classes to which they otherwise relate, that seems less backwardly compatible. I said "less completely" rather than "not at all."
Agreed. I believe I heard them say that the cleric has a 2014 subclass that has restrictions when using it for the 2024 class.
IIRC the specific example they mentioned was that they don't want Cleric players to think they can double-dip on e.g. Blessed Strikes in the 2024 base class + Divine Strike from a 2014 subclass like Death or Tempest. So that's something the character builder will need to take into account.
That sounds rather less completely backwards compatible....
How so? Every cleric subclass still gets their choice of bonus attack damage or bonus cantrip damage, just like they do in Tasha's. It's just part of the base class now.
Based on that logic, since one can adapt even features from 1e to 5e (particularly spells, many of which have very similar wordings from their original 1e versions and thus would be easy to adapt backwards to 1e), it is and always has been backwards compatible.
But that is not the normal definition.
This is a wild take that is 100% out of the ballpark and not even close to the intent of the person you quoted.
You own that content in the 2014 space, in the 2014 context. You do not own that content in the 2024 space, in the 2024 context.
There is no reason to assume a 2014 space and a 2024 space. We'll probably know a lot more after the outage tonight. I suspect the major overhaul that will enable 2024 content is going live.
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Coriana - Company of the Grey Chain Wagner - Dragon Heist: Bards. DM - The Old Keep
We are talking about incompatibilities between the 2014 and 2024 rulesets. 'There are some things that are compatible' is not a counter-argument to incompatibilities. I was pointing out that there being some things that are compatible does not, in and of itself, equate to being meaningfully backwards compatible.
I suspect your definition of "meaningfully backwards compatible" and mine are sufficiently divergent as to make discussion pointless.
If you cannot use 2014 subclasses with 2024 classes to which they otherwise relate, that seems less backwardly compatible. I said "less completely" rather than "not at all."
Agreed. I believe I heard them say that the cleric has a 2014 subclass that has restrictions when using it for the 2024 class.
IIRC the specific example they mentioned was that they don't want Cleric players to think they can double-dip on e.g. Blessed Strikes in the 2024 base class + Divine Strike from a 2014 subclass like Death or Tempest. So that's something the character builder will need to take into account.
That sounds rather less completely backwards compatible....
How so? Every cleric subclass still gets their choice of bonus attack damage or bonus cantrip damage, just like they do in Tasha's. It's just part of the base class now.
Based on that logic, since one can adapt even features from 1e to 5e (particularly spells, many of which have very similar wordings from their original 1e versions and thus would be easy to adapt backwards to 1e), it is and always has been backwards compatible.
But that is not the normal definition.
This is a wild take that is 100% out of the ballpark and not even close to the intent of the person you quoted.
People say things all the time that do not mean what they think they mean, or moreover, have implications that they may not have considered when they were speaking.
"It is just part of the base class now" presupposes that the original version has been replaced outright with the new version. That is not an example of backwards compatibility. That other aspects of the class might be materially the same or 'compatible' does not change that.
At the end of the day, the designers are saying clearly that 2014 is part of 2024 after a simple level transformation, unless revamped, or restricted directly in the 2024 PHB. And thus based on that statement alone, dndbeyond must support that transformation or lose its core value as a digital platform. If people will need to create these subclasses on their own it means that previously bought content is lost. The argument is really simple.
I personally keep on hammering on this one, cause I just can't imagine letting dndbeyond throw away the content I bought from them! Or at least rendering it useless.
I know that we will still have people with a different opinion on this thread, and that is always OK. What I do want to see is more people voicing their opinion like me, demanding this to be addressed, based on past purchases on this site. Please do add your support here.
Dndbeyond will have to follow these rules, as coming from the PHB itself!
This kind of ends this thread's debate, as 2014 content is intended to be supported for 2024 characters with streamlined rules, assuming you bought that content previously, and it is not updated in the 2024 content.
Thread done. Thank you.
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@kotath, I think you realize it too, but just to bring it home, the designers of the 2024 update themselves claim and set the expectation that 2014 should be compatible and transferable (based on some rules), including them referring to exceptions in the new PHB. So in this case, it must be supported via the dndbeyond digital platform, otherwise rendering it broken for previously bought content.
If they introduce homebrew variants of those subclasses, they are giving that content away for free. They could tag those variants as being part of their original source material in order for people to unlock it, but now you're selling content here that is fundamentally different in how it's being sold in other marketplaces. I don't think other platforms would very much like that, and who knows if it invalidates other agreements.
You own that content in the 2014 space, in the 2014 context. You do not own that content in the 2024 space, in the 2024 context.
This is a wild take that is 100% out of the ballpark and not even close to the intent of the person you quoted.
There is no reason to assume a 2014 space and a 2024 space. We'll probably know a lot more after the outage tonight. I suspect the major overhaul that will enable 2024 content is going live.
Coriana - Company of the Grey Chain
Wagner - Dragon Heist: Bards.
DM - The Old Keep
I suspect your definition of "meaningfully backwards compatible" and mine are sufficiently divergent as to make discussion pointless.
People say things all the time that do not mean what they think they mean, or moreover, have implications that they may not have considered when they were speaking.
"It is just part of the base class now" presupposes that the original version has been replaced outright with the new version. That is not an example of backwards compatibility. That other aspects of the class might be materially the same or 'compatible' does not change that.
At the end of the day, the designers are saying clearly that 2014 is part of 2024 after a simple level transformation, unless revamped, or restricted directly in the 2024 PHB. And thus based on that statement alone, dndbeyond must support that transformation or lose its core value as a digital platform. If people will need to create these subclasses on their own it means that previously bought content is lost. The argument is really simple.
I personally keep on hammering on this one, cause I just can't imagine letting dndbeyond throw away the content I bought from them! Or at least rendering it useless.
I know that we will still have people with a different opinion on this thread, and that is always OK. What I do want to see is more people voicing their opinion like me, demanding this to be addressed, based on past purchases on this site. Please do add your support here.
Pack Tactics interview video spells it all out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYDchASN8p8
Dndbeyond will have to follow these rules, as coming from the PHB itself!
This kind of ends this thread's debate, as 2014 content is intended to be supported for 2024 characters with streamlined rules, assuming you bought that content previously, and it is not updated in the 2024 content.
Thread done. Thank you.