I have been drafted to GM a 5e module/campaign book.
The players will be starting at 5th level and entering a 5th level floor. They are all new characters. At least one of the characters is screaming bloody "You just want to kill the party." I am giving 2000gp starting money. Common items have prices. Uncommon versions and above do not. I am using uncommon x10, rare x100, very rare x 1000. First magic effect is counts as 1 effect. Count the number of effects and multiply times rarity times the price of common version of the item. rare +2 flaming longsword = 15gp (common version) x 100 x 2 (+2 and flaming) = 3000gp. I am told the party cannot equip with just 2000gp each.
I see legendary as just that, known through out the continent, possibly the world. Very rare, propably know about through out the country maybe neighboring also so very few. Rare, known about in region, possibly (but unlikely) country wide, first level a person may expect to see someone walking down the street that has (even if they do not see the item). Uncommon, basically very well equipped city guard and above. Common the local militia and men-at-arms have and purchased out of their pockets.
The player is wanting to be a cleric starting with full plate (1500gp), 2 staves of healing, another healing item, and a sliver/magical weapon. That seems a whole lot to me as a starting 5th level character. I will admit the book they want me to run is Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage one of the more difficult books. According to the player, they should be getting at least 20,000gp each starting money.
When drafted, I said I would run but straight out of the book. I was admonished previously for making things too difficult to find, adding realism like slavery (especially suggestion sexual slavery may exist), public hangings, racial animosity, bad food, horrible weather, ...
20,000 gp per head is a 3rd or 4th tier loadout; what you're giving them is very much typical for fresh 5th level characters.
Now, that said, your approach to magic items is all kinds of screwed up compared to the approach from the DMG. A +2 sword with static rider damage is at least Very Rare if not Legendary. 5e is not designed to stack multiple separate magic weapon properties onto a single item. Also, going multiplicative sounds good in theory, but that massively skyrockets the price for the good medium and heavy armor. The DMG has some general price ranges for magic items, or you can search online for prices itemized to each piece that people put together independently.
But the basic loadout at 5th level is just mid to end state mundane armor where applicable, one +1 magic weapon per weapon user, and something like a +1 focus or uncommon rod, wand, etc for full casters, along with assorted mundane adventure gear. That wishlist from the Cleric is way out of proportion to the point they're starting at with the two staves and possibly the other healing item if it's something magical.
Did you take a look at the DMG? If gives suggestions on what magic item types should be give at certain tiers of play, and random roll tables for magical items to be found. I didn't see any mention of it in your post, unless I missed it.
We tried to find price lists for magical items. I have lists from 1e and 2e. I have the 4 volume 2e books of all the (at that time) magical items.
Outside of common, items we do not find prices for uncommon and above items with 5e (I never had 3, 3.5, or 4e books).
As to the cleric, he wants full plate (1500gp) , 2 staves of healing, I do not remember the other healing item but he said it was a very rare item critical to be able to keep the party alive, and a magic/silver weapon for were creatures and other things hurt only by silver and/or magic.
I actually have told the party, I do not care how much they have for starting equipment. They can vote on the figure. It is their game, not mine.
We tried to find price lists for magical items. I have lists from 1e and 2e. I have the 4 volume 2e books of all the (at that time) magical items.
Outside of common, items we do not find prices for uncommon and above items with 5e (I never had 3, 3.5, or 4e books).
As to the cleric, he wants full plate (1500gp) , 2 staves of healing, I do not remember the other healing item but he said it was a very rare item critical to be able to keep the party alive, and a magic/silver weapon for were creatures and other things hurt only by silver and/or magic.
I actually have told the party, I do not care how much they have for starting equipment. They can vote on the figure. It is their game, not mine.
This is what Xanathar's Guide suggests
Magic Item Price
Rarity
Asking Price*
Common
(1d6 + 1) × 10 gp
Uncommon
1d6 × 100 gp
Rare
2d10 × 1,000 gp
Very rare
(1d4 + 1) × 10,000 gp
Legendary
2d6 × 25,000 gp
*Halved for a consumable item like a potion or scroll
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
You could just let them start out with normal non magical weapons and gear. The excuse being they wake up in a dark room chained to a wall in their small cloths.
somehow they break out and find a room full of normal non magical gear and the spell book
There is no "normal", it's whatever you decide it to be for this point in your campaign. If I were doing it, i'd say they can have any mundane (non-magical) gear they want and can carry. Since they're 5th level, i'd give each one a single magica weapon (not above +1), and maybe a couple common useful items.
But that's me, you need to figure out what works for you.
I've always preferred low magic campaigns (fewer magic items), as too many in the game becomes more about the items than the roleplaying (and you have to consider the effects they would have on the world - (gates are useless if everyone can misty step, castle walls are useless if everyone can simply blast thru them; fly over them; or teleport past them, why fear injury if every commoner has access to potions of healing, and what good are armies if every bandit has access to wands of fireball/lightning). Also keep in mind that the xp/encounter charts are actually for those without magic items. Adding in magic items requires some tweaking on the charts. 5e is actually 'balanced' without magic items. About the time that characters are expected to be going against stuff that requires magic weapons, their classes have already gained the ability to hurt such creatures (some count their attacks as magical after a certain level, others gain abilities that allow additional damage dice - so even though their attacks aren't magical, the higher damage basically counter-acts the resistance of the monsters, and of course some get spells that ignore such resistance).
In campaigns I play in, my characters rarely take more than a couple magic items, yet my characters are usually some of hte most effective in the campaign. I've found that you simply don't need them.
But you do you, i'm not saying you have to adopt my style, i'm simply pointing it out as an option.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
From my experience of running or playing a few 5th edition published campaigns (Storm King’s Thunder, Shadow of the Dragon Queen, Turn of Fortune’s Wheel, Wild Beyond the Witchlight), it would be rare to have more than occasional uncommon magic items by level 5. I don’t think I’ve seen any of them award anything close to 20,000 GP by that level.
I believe Dungeon of the Mad Mage is designed to follow on from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist (although there’s no need to start with that). If you have access to W:DH, it might be interesting to see what items and treasure are available, as that’d be a guide to approximately what the publishers expect characters starting DotMM to be carrying.
Thank you's to all the people that responded. The game is cancelled.
I have access to Waterdeep: Dragon Heist but have not read it. The players all state they have run it (1 was the GM). The items they claim to have found including the Staff of Blackstaff (not sure if that is the name but the a LEGENDARY item wielded the controls the statues that help protect Waterdeep from invasion) and some sort of SENTIENT aligned high level item is ridiculous for a 5th level in my opinion. They claim to have gained all manner of rare and very rare items with those characters.
It is no longer a matter of concern. The player that convinced me to GM insisted I was trying to kill off the party with my suggested only 2000gp starting money and purchasing prices I was going to use for uncommon, rare, ... Without magic items how would they survive the wererats and vampires. (He knew the creatures on the 1st level as he had built maps for the previous GM and populated them.) He did not however read the module or he would have known, what I did about the creatures.) I kept saying starting money was up to the party but each gets the same starting money as it was their game, over and over and over. I do not remember making any other comment to his continued conplaints. He started raising his voice. I finally shouted at him "I DO NOT CARE. START WITH WHAT EVER YOU WANT. IT IS YOUR GAME NOT MINE. IF YOU WANT TO JUST WALK THROUGH, I DO NOT CARE. IF YOU ALL WANT TO BE IN 100% LEGENDARY EQUIPMENT OR EVEN ARTIFACTS, I DO NOT CARE." And I did not care.
I did not want to GM for the group. I had stopped playing with the group. Never any RP (which is the part of the game I enjoy most). In several years of the playing with them, I only had I think a total of 5 times I got a turn in the combat, several tended to roll with mods over 20 for initiative and the mobs and mob parties were almost always dead before my turn. I rarely got to use character skills because others claimed they were better or had god given special abilities making mine useless per them and supported by the GM. Why was I even there, so I left. The players were used to Monty Hall games. They were used to being Prima Dons and Donas. Show up late, no problem, everyone else has spent 30, 45, even an hour waiting for the game to start. Not pay attention, so you are not ready for your turn and have to have a summary given before you can can play, no problem. No it was not a group, I wished to GM.
When asked to GM, I suggested they hire a GM, but was all but begged to then told the others would have to convinced as none liked the realism I added to the game so none wanted me as a GM. I was only going to handle the encounters. Then all sorts of thank you's for being willing to GM. Lying through their teeth. I had to bite my tongue/cheek and drive finger names into palm to not respond back to the thank you's. Maybe I did shout to loud. I did not desire to GM the group. But how many times must one say they do not care how much they start with and then have to listen to more complaints that it would be impossible for the party to succeed without more equipment.
I was recording my room descriptions and going to also post the text of the recordings. The recordings were so I would not allow my annoyance to show. It took 2 hours to do one room because of shape to describe satisfactorally and enunciate the words (I tend to mess up speaking clearly). I wish knew how to invoke the computer to read what I write. They got the player maps in advance (only missing secret doors and hidden paths - I guess fully explored before and published by previous explorers). So really no reason for my narrative but just in case they did not use the player maps and decided to map.
What a waste of time. I only got 11 rooms finished but that was 3 evenings work. Two days after I shouted he declared he quit because I shouted at him. He was the one that asked me to GM and then convinced the others to have me GM instead of hiring a GM (my suggestion when first asked). I am almost happy the person quit and am only mildly uncomfortable about not GMing for the others. The uncomfort is only because I agreed to and it feels like I am breaking my word. I would have been fair using exact module directed information, (no random encounters unless required encounter somewhere) but I run the creatures intelligently/cunningly and if players died, they would die. No mods to rolls to save (I was going to have all the mob die rolls on camera so no behind the GM shield, saving of a character.
Haha, when I run Dungeon of the Mad Mage I run it with no starting equipment of any kind-- including weapons, armor, or spell components-- players have to scavenge everything from the Dungeon.
It actually works surprisingly well and adds an extra level of tension to the starting levels.
So your player can count themselves lucky I'm not running it haha
Another thing to consider is that Dungeon of the Mad Mage has a magic item buyer (not seller) sitting in the Yawning Portal. Obaya Uday will pay:
100gp for Common items
500gp for Uncommon items
5,000gp for Rare items
50,000gp for Very Rare items
So, if you allow your players to buy items for cheaper than that, they can just buy magic items for cheap and sell them to Obaya for profit.
My recommendation for Dungeon of the Mad Mage: give them 500gp to spend on common adventuring gear, like normal non-magical weapons and armor. That's it. They don't need any magical items. I'd actually say it ruins the campaign if they go in with magical items, because the Dungeon itself doesn't contain too many magical items. Anything you find in the dungeon will be underwhelming. It'd be like going to Who Wants to Be Millionaire? when you are already a Billionaire.
Thank you's to all the people that responded. The game is cancelled.
Sorry you had that experience but frankly you sound better off out of it, they sound like incredibly entitled players and even if you'd let them all go into combat with +3 armour and legendary weapons at level 5 they'd just spend the rest of the campaign complaining
Thank you's to all the people that responded. The game is cancelled.
Sorry you had that experience but frankly you sound better off out of it, they sound like incredibly entitled players and even if you'd let them all go into combat with +3 armour and legendary weapons at level 5 they'd just spend the rest of the campaign complaining
Yeah, probably. At level 7 complaining about the lack of +5 swords.
I've always found these situations weird, to be honest. Like, we're there to have fun...so let's work things out. Their demands were too high, but like...if the DM wants me to do a L20 one shot with no equipment, I'm just glad they're willing to run the game. At worst, we get TPK'd, and the DM sheepishly suggests a reset with better equipment. Making demands like that is just...foreign to me.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Thank you's to all the people that responded. The game is cancelled.
Sorry you had that experience but frankly you sound better off out of it, they sound like incredibly entitled players and even if you'd let them all go into combat with +3 armour and legendary weapons at level 5 they'd just spend the rest of the campaign complaining
Yeah, probably. At level 7 complaining about the lack of +5 swords.
I've always found these situations weird, to be honest. Like, we're there to have fun...so let's work things out. Their demands were too high, but like...if the DM wants me to do a L20 one shot with no equipment, I'm just glad they're willing to run the game. At worst, we get TPK'd, and the DM sheepishly suggests a reset with better equipment. Making demands like that is just...foreign to me.
One of the worst I remember seeing was a DM talking about a group that wanted them to play Curse of Strahd *exactly* as written including not improvising any dialogue. Since the book doesn't contain scripts the DM obviously couldn't do that but got shouted down at any attempts to improvise. No idea what the players were expecting but that's not how DMing works. As you say, I'm just happy if someone is willing to run a game
Thank you's to all the people that responded. The game is cancelled.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
One red flag that you mentioned is the players' objection to the kind of realism you wanted in your campaign. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that you're not compatible. The campaign I'm currently running just started and the players are discovering the cult engages in human sacrifice, sadistic experimentation on live human subjects, and sexual abuse of female captives. My goal was to get the players emotionally invested in the setting and develop a passion for Fighting the Evil™. It's working as they're appropriately horrified and disgusted.
Keep in mind, it's not just their game. It's your game, too. If the DM isn't having fun, I think that will impact player experience to the point where it is no longer fun for them (at some point, anyway). Another thing to remember is finding any DM, let alone a good one, is the biggest obstacle to playing D&D. A close second is the Schedule Monster™. If you want to run a game, go to your local source of minis and books and put up a flyer that says, "I'd like to DM a game. Here's my email address." (I prefer not to use my cell for talking to strangers). You'll probably get a pretty good response.
I’m glad you’re free of what sounds like a potential disaster of a campaign. As others have pointed out what you offered is considerably more than what is required for dungeon of the mad mage. I’ve both run and DMed it and frankly was disappointed. Given its ( official) history and its game history ( I remember hearing about it in the early 80’s but didn’t run thru it till much later) I expected more from the 5e version especially ( I have both 3e and 5e versions) . Surprisingly little magic, almost no real wealth - what happened? Did Durnan and Mirt get it all and Halaster never restocked? Given that it is a 20+ level deep dungeon run by a L30 archmage from Imaskar and elsewhere and populated by a wild variety of beings that have made it their home for ( in some cases) centuries I would have expected it to be both harder and more rewarding than either edition hade it. The next time I run it ( whenever) I’m going to have to do a lot of reworking to make it truly deadly and rewarding. IMNSHO it should be easy to TPK parties that are not both well prepared and highly skilled units. There should be recoverable “stuff” from he many parties that died in dungeon - either in the rooms or as the gear/treasures of the dungeon’s denizens. Same with the coinage and other treasures/valuables of both the dead parties and the groups/individuals living there that occasionally leave for various reasons. I seriously doubt that either Durnan or Mirt ever actually reached the lowest levels yet they came back with both considerable Mach and true fortunes ( to my mind tens to hundreds of thousands of GPs or equivalents) while a party going all the way thru is hard pressed to get 10k GPs between them let alone individually.Halaster is listed as having hundreds of magic items, I doubt there is even half a hundred item in total in the campaign - something needs to be reworked here. The forgotten realms is not a low magic campaign, why was this module written as if it were?
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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I have been drafted to GM a 5e module/campaign book.
The players will be starting at 5th level and entering a 5th level floor. They are all new characters. At least one of the characters is screaming bloody "You just want to kill the party." I am giving 2000gp starting money. Common items have prices. Uncommon versions and above do not. I am using uncommon x10, rare x100, very rare x 1000. First magic effect is counts as 1 effect. Count the number of effects and multiply times rarity times the price of common version of the item. rare +2 flaming longsword = 15gp (common version) x 100 x 2 (+2 and flaming) = 3000gp. I am told the party cannot equip with just 2000gp each.
I see legendary as just that, known through out the continent, possibly the world. Very rare, propably know about through out the country maybe neighboring also so very few. Rare, known about in region, possibly (but unlikely) country wide, first level a person may expect to see someone walking down the street that has (even if they do not see the item). Uncommon, basically very well equipped city guard and above. Common the local militia and men-at-arms have and purchased out of their pockets.
The player is wanting to be a cleric starting with full plate (1500gp), 2 staves of healing, another healing item, and a sliver/magical weapon. That seems a whole lot to me as a starting 5th level character. I will admit the book they want me to run is Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage one of the more difficult books. According to the player, they should be getting at least 20,000gp each starting money.
When drafted, I said I would run but straight out of the book. I was admonished previously for making things too difficult to find, adding realism like slavery (especially suggestion sexual slavery may exist), public hangings, racial animosity, bad food, horrible weather, ...
Comments?
The 2024 PHB suggests 5th level players start with 500gp + 25-250gp plus starting equipment, plus one uncommon and one common magic item.
What the MarquisAndras said, which should be noted is more than the 2014 PHB had for starting wealth at 5th level
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
20,000 gp per head is a 3rd or 4th tier loadout; what you're giving them is very much typical for fresh 5th level characters.
Now, that said, your approach to magic items is all kinds of screwed up compared to the approach from the DMG. A +2 sword with static rider damage is at least Very Rare if not Legendary. 5e is not designed to stack multiple separate magic weapon properties onto a single item. Also, going multiplicative sounds good in theory, but that massively skyrockets the price for the good medium and heavy armor. The DMG has some general price ranges for magic items, or you can search online for prices itemized to each piece that people put together independently.
But the basic loadout at 5th level is just mid to end state mundane armor where applicable, one +1 magic weapon per weapon user, and something like a +1 focus or uncommon rod, wand, etc for full casters, along with assorted mundane adventure gear. That wishlist from the Cleric is way out of proportion to the point they're starting at with the two staves and possibly the other healing item if it's something magical.
Did you take a look at the DMG? If gives suggestions on what magic item types should be give at certain tiers of play, and random roll tables for magical items to be found. I didn't see any mention of it in your post, unless I missed it.
@The_Ace_of_Rogues
We tried to find price lists for magical items. I have lists from 1e and 2e. I have the 4 volume 2e books of all the (at that time) magical items.
Outside of common, items we do not find prices for uncommon and above items with 5e (I never had 3, 3.5, or 4e books).
As to the cleric, he wants full plate (1500gp) , 2 staves of healing, I do not remember the other healing item but he said it was a very rare item critical to be able to keep the party alive, and a magic/silver weapon for were creatures and other things hurt only by silver and/or magic.
I actually have told the party, I do not care how much they have for starting equipment. They can vote on the figure. It is their game, not mine.
This is what Xanathar's Guide suggests
Magic Item Price
*Halved for a consumable item like a potion or scroll
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
You could just let them start out with normal non magical weapons and gear. The excuse being they wake up in a dark room chained to a wall in their small cloths.
somehow they break out and find a room full of normal non magical gear and the spell book
There is no "normal", it's whatever you decide it to be for this point in your campaign. If I were doing it, i'd say they can have any mundane (non-magical) gear they want and can carry. Since they're 5th level, i'd give each one a single magica weapon (not above +1), and maybe a couple common useful items.
But that's me, you need to figure out what works for you.
I've always preferred low magic campaigns (fewer magic items), as too many in the game becomes more about the items than the roleplaying (and you have to consider the effects they would have on the world - (gates are useless if everyone can misty step, castle walls are useless if everyone can simply blast thru them; fly over them; or teleport past them, why fear injury if every commoner has access to potions of healing, and what good are armies if every bandit has access to wands of fireball/lightning). Also keep in mind that the xp/encounter charts are actually for those without magic items. Adding in magic items requires some tweaking on the charts. 5e is actually 'balanced' without magic items. About the time that characters are expected to be going against stuff that requires magic weapons, their classes have already gained the ability to hurt such creatures (some count their attacks as magical after a certain level, others gain abilities that allow additional damage dice - so even though their attacks aren't magical, the higher damage basically counter-acts the resistance of the monsters, and of course some get spells that ignore such resistance).
In campaigns I play in, my characters rarely take more than a couple magic items, yet my characters are usually some of hte most effective in the campaign. I've found that you simply don't need them.
But you do you, i'm not saying you have to adopt my style, i'm simply pointing it out as an option.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
From my experience of running or playing a few 5th edition published campaigns (Storm King’s Thunder, Shadow of the Dragon Queen, Turn of Fortune’s Wheel, Wild Beyond the Witchlight), it would be rare to have more than occasional uncommon magic items by level 5. I don’t think I’ve seen any of them award anything close to 20,000 GP by that level.
I believe Dungeon of the Mad Mage is designed to follow on from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist (although there’s no need to start with that). If you have access to W:DH, it might be interesting to see what items and treasure are available, as that’d be a guide to approximately what the publishers expect characters starting DotMM to be carrying.
Thank you's to all the people that responded. The game is cancelled.
I have access to Waterdeep: Dragon Heist but have not read it. The players all state they have run it (1 was the GM). The items they claim to have found including the Staff of Blackstaff (not sure if that is the name but the a LEGENDARY item wielded the controls the statues that help protect Waterdeep from invasion) and some sort of SENTIENT aligned high level item is ridiculous for a 5th level in my opinion. They claim to have gained all manner of rare and very rare items with those characters.
It is no longer a matter of concern. The player that convinced me to GM insisted I was trying to kill off the party with my suggested only 2000gp starting money and purchasing prices I was going to use for uncommon, rare, ... Without magic items how would they survive the wererats and vampires. (He knew the creatures on the 1st level as he had built maps for the previous GM and populated them.) He did not however read the module or he would have known, what I did about the creatures.) I kept saying starting money was up to the party but each gets the same starting money as it was their game, over and over and over. I do not remember making any other comment to his continued conplaints. He started raising his voice. I finally shouted at him "I DO NOT CARE. START WITH WHAT EVER YOU WANT. IT IS YOUR GAME NOT MINE. IF YOU WANT TO JUST WALK THROUGH, I DO NOT CARE. IF YOU ALL WANT TO BE IN 100% LEGENDARY EQUIPMENT OR EVEN ARTIFACTS, I DO NOT CARE." And I did not care.
I did not want to GM for the group. I had stopped playing with the group. Never any RP (which is the part of the game I enjoy most). In several years of the playing with them, I only had I think a total of 5 times I got a turn in the combat, several tended to roll with mods over 20 for initiative and the mobs and mob parties were almost always dead before my turn. I rarely got to use character skills because others claimed they were better or had god given special abilities making mine useless per them and supported by the GM. Why was I even there, so I left. The players were used to Monty Hall games. They were used to being Prima Dons and Donas. Show up late, no problem, everyone else has spent 30, 45, even an hour waiting for the game to start. Not pay attention, so you are not ready for your turn and have to have a summary given before you can can play, no problem. No it was not a group, I wished to GM.
When asked to GM, I suggested they hire a GM, but was all but begged to then told the others would have to convinced as none liked the realism I added to the game so none wanted me as a GM. I was only going to handle the encounters. Then all sorts of thank you's for being willing to GM. Lying through their teeth. I had to bite my tongue/cheek and drive finger names into palm to not respond back to the thank you's. Maybe I did shout to loud. I did not desire to GM the group. But how many times must one say they do not care how much they start with and then have to listen to more complaints that it would be impossible for the party to succeed without more equipment.
I was recording my room descriptions and going to also post the text of the recordings. The recordings were so I would not allow my annoyance to show. It took 2 hours to do one room because of shape to describe satisfactorally and enunciate the words (I tend to mess up speaking clearly). I wish knew how to invoke the computer to read what I write. They got the player maps in advance (only missing secret doors and hidden paths - I guess fully explored before and published by previous explorers). So really no reason for my narrative but just in case they did not use the player maps and decided to map.
What a waste of time. I only got 11 rooms finished but that was 3 evenings work. Two days after I shouted he declared he quit because I shouted at him. He was the one that asked me to GM and then convinced the others to have me GM instead of hiring a GM (my suggestion when first asked). I am almost happy the person quit and am only mildly uncomfortable about not GMing for the others. The uncomfort is only because I agreed to and it feels like I am breaking my word. I would have been fair using exact module directed information, (no random encounters unless required encounter somewhere) but I run the creatures intelligently/cunningly and if players died, they would die. No mods to rolls to save (I was going to have all the mob die rolls on camera so no behind the GM shield, saving of a character.
Haha, when I run Dungeon of the Mad Mage I run it with no starting equipment of any kind-- including weapons, armor, or spell components-- players have to scavenge everything from the Dungeon.
It actually works surprisingly well and adds an extra level of tension to the starting levels.
So your player can count themselves lucky I'm not running it haha
Another thing to consider is that Dungeon of the Mad Mage has a magic item buyer (not seller) sitting in the Yawning Portal. Obaya Uday will pay:
So, if you allow your players to buy items for cheaper than that, they can just buy magic items for cheap and sell them to Obaya for profit.
My recommendation for Dungeon of the Mad Mage: give them 500gp to spend on common adventuring gear, like normal non-magical weapons and armor. That's it. They don't need any magical items. I'd actually say it ruins the campaign if they go in with magical items, because the Dungeon itself doesn't contain too many magical items. Anything you find in the dungeon will be underwhelming. It'd be like going to Who Wants to Be Millionaire? when you are already a Billionaire.
Sorry you had that experience but frankly you sound better off out of it, they sound like incredibly entitled players and even if you'd let them all go into combat with +3 armour and legendary weapons at level 5 they'd just spend the rest of the campaign complaining
Yeah, probably. At level 7 complaining about the lack of +5 swords.
I've always found these situations weird, to be honest. Like, we're there to have fun...so let's work things out. Their demands were too high, but like...if the DM wants me to do a L20 one shot with no equipment, I'm just glad they're willing to run the game. At worst, we get TPK'd, and the DM sheepishly suggests a reset with better equipment. Making demands like that is just...foreign to me.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
One of the worst I remember seeing was a DM talking about a group that wanted them to play Curse of Strahd *exactly* as written including not improvising any dialogue. Since the book doesn't contain scripts the DM obviously couldn't do that but got shouted down at any attempts to improvise. No idea what the players were expecting but that's not how DMing works. As you say, I'm just happy if someone is willing to run a game
Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
One red flag that you mentioned is the players' objection to the kind of realism you wanted in your campaign. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that you're not compatible. The campaign I'm currently running just started and the players are discovering the cult engages in human sacrifice, sadistic experimentation on live human subjects, and sexual abuse of female captives. My goal was to get the players emotionally invested in the setting and develop a passion for Fighting the Evil™. It's working as they're appropriately horrified and disgusted.
Keep in mind, it's not just their game. It's your game, too. If the DM isn't having fun, I think that will impact player experience to the point where it is no longer fun for them (at some point, anyway). Another thing to remember is finding any DM, let alone a good one, is the biggest obstacle to playing D&D. A close second is the Schedule Monster™. If you want to run a game, go to your local source of minis and books and put up a flyer that says, "I'd like to DM a game. Here's my email address." (I prefer not to use my cell for talking to strangers). You'll probably get a pretty good response.
I’m glad you’re free of what sounds like a potential disaster of a campaign. As others have pointed out what you offered is considerably more than what is required for dungeon of the mad mage. I’ve both run and DMed it and frankly was disappointed. Given its ( official) history and its game history ( I remember hearing about it in the early 80’s but didn’t run thru it till much later) I expected more from the 5e version especially ( I have both 3e and 5e versions) . Surprisingly little magic, almost no real wealth - what happened? Did Durnan and Mirt get it all and Halaster never restocked? Given that it is a 20+ level deep dungeon run by a L30 archmage from Imaskar and elsewhere and populated by a wild variety of beings that have made it their home for ( in some cases) centuries I would have expected it to be both harder and more rewarding than either edition hade it. The next time I run it ( whenever) I’m going to have to do a lot of reworking to make it truly deadly and rewarding. IMNSHO it should be easy to TPK parties that are not both well prepared and highly skilled units. There should be recoverable “stuff” from he many parties that died in dungeon - either in the rooms or as the gear/treasures of the dungeon’s denizens. Same with the coinage and other treasures/valuables of both the dead parties and the groups/individuals living there that occasionally leave for various reasons. I seriously doubt that either Durnan or Mirt ever actually reached the lowest levels yet they came back with both considerable Mach and true fortunes ( to my mind tens to hundreds of thousands of GPs or equivalents) while a party going all the way thru is hard pressed to get 10k GPs between them let alone individually.Halaster is listed as having hundreds of magic items, I doubt there is even half a hundred item in total in the campaign - something needs to be reworked here. The forgotten realms is not a low magic campaign, why was this module written as if it were?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.